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View Full Version : Reflex Racing 64 Pitch Machined Delrin 51T Spur Gear now Available...


CristianTabush
2009.10.13, 01:14 AM
You asked for it, it is now Available...

http://reflexracing.net/prodimages/Images/RX1136.jpg

CristianTabush
2009.10.13, 01:16 AM
Also available, Ceramic 2WD Diff Thrust Bearing (replaces bearing on differential)
http://reflexracing.net/prodimages/Images/RX1137.jpg

CristianTabush
2009.10.14, 02:23 PM
I am surprised I have no comments on here. Anyways, you all have to try the new thrust bearings! The diff action is absolutely the smoothest and most consistent I have ever felt. I wish I would have installed them on our endurance race car... Just did not have time... On the track, the car is even more precise and I feel like the lateral grip increased. It doesn't hurt that ceramic bearings are lighter as well... :P

chad508
2009.10.14, 02:31 PM
im sure i'll be ordering one soon. what gearing were you running at the enduro?

CristianTabush
2009.10.14, 03:14 PM
We were running 9/53 for the enduro with a PN 35 Turn motor...

Traveler
2009.10.14, 03:33 PM
I am surprised I have no comments on here. Anyways, you all have to try the new thrust bearings! The diff action is absolutely the smoothest and most consistent I have ever felt. I wish I would have installed them on our endurance race car... Just did not have time... On the track, the car is even more precise and I feel like the lateral grip increased. It doesn't hurt that ceramic bearings are lighter as well... :P

I've been meaning to order mine, but I thought I'd wait until the WTF2s are in. I can't believe no one has come out with a thrust bearing for the MR-02 earlier. ATM has it for the AWD diffs, but not 2WD.

Look forward to trying both items mentioned here.

CristianTabush
2009.10.14, 04:08 PM
This is still a "regular" Bearing, not thurst type, but ir has been manufactured with extremely tight tolerances to ensure better diff action...

Traveler
2009.10.14, 04:59 PM
:)Oops! Still interested in trying to though!

pfcparts
2009.10.14, 05:52 PM
ATM has had a ceramic 3 x 6 x 2.5 since I can remember...

I've had a few and have been waiting on some diff parts...

-----

Curious about the switch to ceramics... I thought you've
been preaching they didn't matter...

Also, weren't these 51s supposed to be out a week ago?

Thanks for the heads up. :rolleyes:


parts

CristianTabush
2009.10.14, 06:03 PM
Not ABEC 7 my friend... All their bearings are rated Abec 3

CristianTabush
2009.10.14, 06:04 PM
And these are meant to be used as thrust bearings, not for the axles (although you can use them if you like, if you can justify the $5.00 price tag...) I will still use steel bearings on the axles and front wheels...

CristianTabush
2009.10.14, 06:05 PM
Oh, and the 51's were ready Friday... I was in Myrtle Beach. They went up on Monday... Sorry, missed it by a working day...

Tjay
2009.10.14, 06:46 PM
CT: I'll take a pic of my diff and the slight mod I did on the thrust bearing. I'm sure you'll like it. ;)

Talk to you soon!

Rune
2009.10.14, 07:16 PM
Bearing are ordered. I am looking forward to try them out.

Regarding the different bearings out there. The ATM bearings mentioned have been used here for some time ago, until Reflex came out with firstly the Avid, then the high grade bearings.

I did a temp measure on them after a series of laps, and the RR and Avid bearings RR offers are the ones that runs absolutely the coolest. That tells me that they are superior regarding friction.
It was not a large difference, but after a number of measures the trend was absolutely there.

BR
Rune

pfcparts
2009.10.15, 02:55 AM
Just responding to trav who thought no one had come
out with that type of bearing lol.

No harm meant. :p

If I’d have known, I would have waited...
Better quality and cheaper is always a win.
Assuming they are better quality.

-----

I was just curious in that why you’d pull a u and
offer a ceramic thrust bearing at a higher price if
steel ones are perfectly capable and it seems like
you’d be able to get some good deals on ones
similar to your other offerings…

Adding another 5 bucks to already expensive diff parts
hurts lol. I think some might still be waiting on that
promised $50 diff…

-----

Not one day my friend…

I emailed you last month (24th), and was told the gears would
be done early the next week… I didn’t get anything from
you since then and we are now closing in on the 03 debut.

The fact that they came late doesn’t bother me as things
happen out of your control, but at least give me a heads up
if you told me otherwise. I let it slide after once, but
since it has happened twice... c'mon man. :(

None of the shops I frequent pull that and if they do have a
discrepancy somewhere, they usually let me know; even with
the language barrier and differing time zones and whatnot. I
know with their international sales they run through a huge
volume of orders, they run their own events, and god knows
what else they do, but they still give me that common
courtesy at the least...

Your in-house stuff seems pretty cool and I haven't been
disappointed with the stuff I bought before, but work
with me...

-----

R, I’m not sure where I mentioned that the rr bearing sets
weren’t a good value or how they came into the thread since
we were talking about thrust bearings lol… :rolleyes: I’ll take
your measurements with a grain of salt; the simple test for me is
basically to spin the wheel or diff you put on. With that being
said and trying out the rr sets...

I still run the same PN ceramics I've been running and have long
since sold the others…

Though I admit after these run their life, since I'm not made
out of money, I'm going the other route lol.

Getting any set of cheap bearings, drying them out, and generally
taking good care of them will probably net you a pretty good spin
and good results so the rrs shouldn’t be a bad deal...
Assuming they are still under 10 bucks.


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Rune
2009.10.15, 03:41 AM
R, I’m not sure where I mentioned that the rr bearing sets
weren’t a good value or how they came into the thread since
we were talking about thrust bearings lol… :rolleyes: I’ll take
your measurements with a grain of salt; the simple test for me is
basically to spin the wheel or diff you put on. With that being
said and trying out the rr sets...

No problem. I just responded on the other bearings mentioned:)

Regarding the temp measures I just did them for fun, and were surprised to see that bearings that seems to spin as easy does heat up differently.
I think this can be due the tolerances. I think the main difference in friction is when they are loaded from the side. This is hard to test out with just spinning the wheels with your hand.

pfcparts
2009.10.15, 05:32 PM
Fair enough.

I didn’t say my test was the best, but it works for me.
You can notice the difference between ceramics and normal
bearings by just running them…

Unless you run those bearings at a constant rate and apply
controlled side loads and measure temps instead of random
laps with numerous variables which will never be the same,
I don’t see how your current measurements could shift my
opinion as opposed to my own simpler way...

I had some different coffee this morning that was recommended
by a friend and was tasty, but it wasn’t as chilly as yesterday so
being that the other coffee didn’t feel as hot, I think the new
coffee is better than the other coffees available because I can
recommend that coffee as my buddy drinks it and he is a
coffee connoisseur who happens to sell me the said coffee…

My coffee buddy doesn't recommend vanilla in coffee but now
offers vanilla shots in coffee and now recommends it so it is the
bomb.

C’mon man. :p

I’m still trying to get around how something that is better to
begin with could possibly be worse than something else similar
that was inferior to begin with when both would (or should)
experience the same exact loads…

That being said lol, I’ll leave it there as this thread has gone way
off tangent (mea culpa) and it has taken away from what are
probably very good products.


parts

CristianTabush
2009.10.15, 10:36 PM
I don't understand what you are trying to get to, but if you are referring to me saying ceramics are not necessary, I still stand by it, so long as it is one of the 7 standard replacement bearings. You won't be able to tell the difference on the track with ceramics. I could release a bearing set that was all ceramic, but then it would be in the 40 dollar range... Would they be better than what we currently offer? Perhaps marginally.

Some people can justify the price difference, based on the depth of their pockets, but in our business model, at Reflex, they do not justify the cost-to-benefit ratio. To top that, our steel bearings are purpose-manufactured for us by our factory. I selected the materials, the shield type, lube type and the rating on them. This obviously makes them more expensive than regular steel bearings, but also far superior, so much that we are willing to put them up against any manufacturer's ceramic bearings besides Reflex's bearings to demonstrate their much higher "bang for the buck".

With that said, this bearing replaces the bearing that is installed on the differential though, (the one that comes from the factory, which many people never even think about) and it does make a WORLD of a difference when it comes to side loading capabilities. In turn, it also provides more consistent and smoother differential action. This is something that I started playing with some time ago and I just needed to find the right bearing to get the most consistent and smooth feel. Once I found it, I tweaked a couple of things and ordered a batch to be manufactured for me...

Are they more expensive? Yes. But remember these are "option" or "specialty" parts that add to people's enjoyment of the hobby. You need not have them for your car to run. Especially if you are not racing. Reflex is about racing and about pushing the envelope CONSTANTLY. That's how we stay at the front of the pack. If we did not push it and look for ways to make our equipment better, we wouldn't be doing our job.

Felix2010
2009.10.16, 01:00 PM
CT - Are your new 3x6x2.5 differential "thrust" bearings really abec-7? That's pretty cool.:D

Not to go off-topic too much, I just want to ask - Your Reflex High-Quality steel MR02 bearings are abec-3, correct? I believe you mentioned this before but I just would like to confirm. Thanks:D

CristianTabush
2009.10.16, 02:02 PM
No, our bearing kits are Abec 5, hence the reason why they are as fast an in many cases faster than the available ceramics in the Market.

MantisMMA
2009.10.16, 02:29 PM
Not one day my friend…

I emailed you last month (24th), and was told the gears would
be done early the next week… I didn’t get anything from
you since then and we are now closing in on the 03 debut.

The fact that they came late doesn’t bother me as things
happen out of your control, but at least give me a heads up
if you told me otherwise. I let it slide after once, but
since it has happened twice... c'mon man. :(

None of the shops I frequent pull that and if they do have a
discrepancy somewhere, they usually let me know; even with
the language barrier and differing time zones and whatnot. I
know with their international sales they run through a huge
volume of orders, they run their own events, and god knows
what else they do, but they still give me that common
courtesy at the least...

Your in-house stuff seems pretty cool and I haven't been
disappointed with the stuff I bought before, but work
with me...

-----

parts


i can take the blame for the spurs taking longer than expected since i am making them. they were late because we found a better way to make them but i had to make numerous fixtures to make it work and they got produced backwards from the way i did them last time. Cristian was only telling you what i was telling him! i have to outsource the actual teeth cutting and the vendor i used got a new machine that had to be setup. these things take time. i will say that your boy Cristian is a very busy person, probably one of the few people i know that does equal to or more than me (and thats ALOT!!) so cut him some slack on this one i am sure he didnt mean to forget you. keep in mind that he is pretty much a one man show!

pfcparts
2009.10.16, 04:10 PM
Whoa...

I suppose racers can't take jokes lol. :o

Guys take it easy... lol. :p

Most of what I've been saying was light
hearted and meant in a ribbing/joking
manner.

If I was pissed I would have been done with it
and not posted anything at all... Though marc
can attest me being done with someone is just
enough time away to cool off... I'm not that
much of an arse... I hope.

I am a little irked I didn't wait to get a
better bearing for less...

After re-reading the posts myself, I can see where
they can be taken wrong... It isn't as funny if
it is not face to face, and I'll be more to point and
keep the "funny" stuff to myself.

If it was taken otherwise, I apologize. ct is cool and
always is quicker to reply than expected. Nothing but
respect.

I have not been disappointed in parts from rr before nor will I
be with the next batch. Which, I hope won't take longer
than normal, have the wrong addy, and come intact
lol. (j/k calm down) :p

What I was getting around was if you'd offer a similar
steel bearing at a high grade, which doesn't seem out of
your philosophy. As is, in building a new diff, you'd have
to buy the ceramic one at 5 or a set of high grades at 10...
or get stuck with the avid singles.

A comparable high grade steel one at a cheaper slightly
more affordable price wouldn't not be appreciated.

5 bucks ain't alot, but it is tough when you get into building
some new diffs and they are easily reaching into the $70-80
chassis range. :o

As for that veiled non-racer zing, good one. :D

Though, after running a few blazing stock dnanos, I'm wondering if
a minimalistic approach isn't a bad idea.

Again, we're all in it for fun guys, so don't take anything too personally
and take it easy, jeez. :p


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CristianTabush
2009.10.16, 04:59 PM
Man, I must be an idiot, but I still don't understand you fully...

Are you asking if I would be releasing a higher grade steel bearing to compete with the thrust bearing? I could. The issue is not with the quality, but rather with the type of lubrication. I can give you a crappy bearing packed full of grease, and it would work pretty well for a while. Once they are cleaned out, they quickly deteriorate though. Thrust bearings really need lubrication to stay smooth. This would be the same for high grade steel bearings.

Ceramic bearings are self lubricating. In other words, they can be run dry. This, along with their higher ABEC rating, (which in turn makes the balls in the bearings more round) leads to the smoother and more consistent load handling capabilities. With a steel bearing the issue is really durability as a "high grade" Reflex Bearing, which is essentially dry would only last in the diff for a couple of race days, this in turn is not very cost effective.

MantisMMA
2009.10.16, 06:29 PM
PFC, no worries man! computers are 2 dimensional!

chad508
2009.10.16, 07:03 PM
[QUOTE=CristianTabush;363379]I am surprised I have no comments on here./QUOTE]

i guess your getting comments now CT.

a question about spur and pinion sizing. i know the ratio makes a difference in torque and speed. but how does a smaller spur to larger pinion compare to large spur small pinion. if ratios are close does the diff act different with a smaller our larger spur. same with the motor. are is it as simple as the ratio is the only change?

thanks

pfcparts
2009.10.17, 07:46 PM
Now I don't feel as bad now mma thanks lol.
I do appreciate it.

-----

Fair enough, but...

You've said it yourself in this thread and
I'm pretty sure alot would agree they are
not "true" thrust bearings lol... :p

-----

Yes. In hindsight I should have just asked or pmed. :o

An equally axial load tolerant "high grade"
steel bearing in which costomers could use
abit of lube (I'm sure everyone has their own
kind in their box) probably doesn't seem too
far off your philosophy of keeping prices down
and quality up?

I mean if you provide a great cost effective alternative
to ceramics to begin with, I don't think it'd be unfair to
continue or expect from you the same cost
effective alternative to any ceramic offering out there...
including your own lol...

Unless, I'm the idiot... Which I'm more than willing to
admit may be the case. :D

I mean, a little lube on the balls won't hurt lol. :p

-----

Surely your high grade bearings last more
than a few races if properly taken care of
and lubed on the diff...? :confused:

I wasn't aware that they took that much
abuse... :o

-----

Although, if you guys could list your grading on bearings and
diff balls etc. (or know of a database of different
manufacturers to find that info) that would be nice thing
to use when comparing items in shopping... as is everything
just seems the same and manufacturers are pretty hesitant
if not against telling you.

I don't want to continue this path of taking away
from the products, so I will either pm or email if I have
anything pressing... Again, it was never my intention
for it get here. I am truly appreciative of the replys and
info though. :)


parts

ruf
2009.10.17, 07:51 PM
The thrust bearing in a diff takes a tremendous amount of abuse, especially if you are crash prone. Every impact to the rear wheel is transmitted to the thrust bearing in addition to the normal operational loads. I probably go through a normal thrust bearing 15-20 packs if I want my diff at full health. The reason ceramic balls work so well here is that they won't flat spot like steel balls and the higher tolerances of the higher ABEC rating gives you a better load distribution across the balls.

Felix2010
2009.10.17, 11:44 PM
The thrust bearing in a diff takes a tremendous amount of abuse, especially if you are crash prone. Every impact to the rear wheel is transmitted to the thrust bearing in addition to the normal operational loads. I probably go through a normal thrust bearing 15-20 packs if I want my diff at full health. The reason ceramic balls work so well here is that they won't flat spot like steel balls and the higher tolerances of the higher ABEC rating gives you a better load distribution across the balls.

ruf - Good points about how this new Reflex abec-7 "thrust" bearing can function better as a thrust bearing than the stock OEM 3x6x2.5 bearing sold with all the ball diffs out there (even though it technically isn't a thrust bearing).:)
Another reason why it's good the new "thrust" bearing is ceramic:
Ceramic balls can be produced ultra-precisely and because they are basically as hard as a diamond, they retain their perfect shape much longer than their steel counterparts. A true abec-7 bearing if it is made out of steel will feel ultra-smooth for the first few times you use it; But! it will quickly lose its abec-7 tolerance - Very quickly - due to the steel balls flat-spotting and becoming out-of-true.
$5 for an abec-7 ceramic bearing is not bad at all. And it will far-outlast an abec-7 steel bearing.:)

BTW just my opinion, but 12 bucks for 7 abec-5-rated bearings makes the Reflex High-Grade MR02 bearing set one of the best buys around. Wow! I thought they were only abec-3 - And even at abec-3, $12 for a set is a great buy!:D

pfcparts
2009.10.22, 05:15 PM
I see.

I didn't realize they took that much abuse; just
assumed they took the same punishment as
the others.

If mine got grainy, I just looked at the plates,
cleaned and relubed the bearing, and packed
in a little more grease on the balls. Something
else to look out for. :(

I haven't changed any in ages... :o

-----

RR/MMA spurs: 53s had abit of clean up with the
exacto (burs on the spurs lol), but 51s seem perfect
from a quick glance. Nice design and execution.

Little tight on the shaft, but should wear with a little
use or I can always polish a little. Concerned on how
exposed the balls/plates are... You can't get away
from using a spacer either it seems...

Otherwise, well done all around.

RR HG TB: I did a test with a diff and old pn rm pod
to see if they compared with the ATM ceramic TBs I
bought earlier. The RR bearing seemed to not to spin
as long or as free as the ATM, but I will try it again.

I usually dry ATM ceramics in motor cleaner (ATM
puts some sort of gunk in it) so to be fair I will do
the same to the RR ones as I thought I noticed a
hint of grease in them. Real test is in the diff though...

ATMs work really really well so far on the two I've
made, so I'd expect the RR HGs to surpass them.

Looking forward to getting the diffs into the 03 and
a few other new items (hopefully this weekend).


parts

CristianTabush
2009.10.22, 08:40 PM
With the bearings, in the front they seem to get faster as they break in, so keep that in mind...

I hope you enjoy your parts...

Felix2010
2009.10.23, 03:18 AM
CT, are you still using shims on your Qteq/Reflex 53/51 spur diffs to get the spur spaced evenly between the diff rings? Or do you find that with less lube you do not have the "suction" or spur-sticking-to-the-rig problem with your spurs? Because your spurs are so flat and perfecly mahined, they tend to "stick" to my outer diff ring a bit. I have yet to try using less lube though. In your diff build tutorial, you only lube the balls, which may be the ticket... I saw on your diff tutorial on your website that you did not use any shims for that build.

BTW - CT, I have yet to try your high-grade bearings, but I will say that your Avid fronts definitely got much smoother+faster when they broke-in a bit. They spin forever. At first they were fast, but now they are extremely fast:)

pfcparts
2009.10.24, 10:37 PM
That suction a bad thing? I decided against using the
spacers so I left them out, but I do notice the spur can
stick to the ring... Doesn't seem like it inhibits the diff?

-----

I can't really tell the difference between the ceramics, so
the rrs should be the better deal. :D Higher ratings
and a cheaper starting point = win.

Tried the Qteq/RR/ATM/PN alum diff today...

Light, quiet, and efficient.

Might be the best ball diff out there, even over
the K diffs, which I tended to use exclusively...

(Should be as it costs twice as much lol) :o

Exact same setup and I was throwing tires and losing
traction like crazy even with the heavy tagus on my murc.

Used them with PN 64p machine cut pinions and they are
extremely quiet. When you hear the electronics humming
louder than the diff it's pretty cool lol. :D

A little work required and a higher pricepoint, but just
plain awesome...

Only knock is it might be a little maintenance heavy
though...

If you've got the cash and are serious, not a bad
investment. Highly recommended.

As expected excellent products guys.


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EMU
2009.10.25, 02:08 AM
The suction is bad. The spur will generally stick to the right ring. Which means that the right wheel will be in synch with the spur... Not a good thing, as you will hook left and push right. When spacing, you only want to keep the spur off the ring, too many spacers will lock the diff...

CristianTabush
2009.10.26, 05:36 PM
Thanks for the review parts. I am glad you like them. They do take more maintenance and a little bit of fitting, but overall results is what we like to achieve. :P

Think of them as straight-cut gears in real race cars, a little louder, a little more maintenance, but much better performance... One thing that is very nice is how long they last. I am still on my original spur and it's been through A LOT. Including a 4 hour enduro...

CristianTabush
2009.10.26, 05:41 PM
I still space my spurs. I will release a tutorial soon on how to do this best. Due to the different combination of shafts/diff parts/rings that people run, there is no exact measurement. I usually do a bit of sanding on my spacers to get them to work just right. I get no spur gear stiction though...

VAzRACER
2009.10.26, 07:09 PM
I had to sand the wide spacer from .45mm to .36mm to get everything working freely. Sanded on 1500, only took a few passes to get it down to size.

Skv012a
2009.11.12, 12:49 PM
Popped one of these in last night as so far I like its feel and the whole concept. Since I don't have enough matching diff balls, I'll try it with 3 and see how that works out at for now. Will have to assemble my track to see how it does in its natural environment ;)

JuniorWKR
2009.11.12, 03:55 PM
Does reflex have any plans or interest in making 64pitch for a stock diff... i like running stock diff on my 70t cars and the reduced weight makes up for the limited gearing. but a stock diff with a 64 pitch spur would be pretty sick... im no engineer but i have to assume that all that has to be made is the spur gear housing...

CristianTabush
2009.11.12, 04:04 PM
Not at the time. Once we run a QteQ diff with all the lightened parts, the ball diff can be almost as light. It is a product that we are definitely considering though...

JuniorWKR
2009.11.12, 04:08 PM
Everyone at Maj's is running the qteq... its absolutly amazing... there is just something different about the stock diff... please keep us posted if you come out with the 64 pitch for stock diff...

briankstan
2009.11.12, 04:30 PM
I took these from my MR-03 build. My MR-02 Build (http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/index.php?topic=291.0) As you can see if you build the QteQ diff with the right parts, It's lighter than the stock gear diff.

I've build 3 of them, the reflex parts are top notch, as well as the QteQ parts. I'm glad Reflex found them :)

stock gear diff, weight is 5.9 grams.
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_9.JPG

Kyosho Ball Diff, weight is 8.2 grams.
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_7.JPG

QteQ Ball diff, with Reflex light weight diff rings, Reflex ceramic balls, Reflex 53 tooth spur Gear, Qteq Diff housing, and PN ultra light weight diff shaft, weight is 4.4 grams.
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_8.JPG

EMU
2009.11.12, 05:19 PM
Brian, try using a 51t spur... should be even lighter ;)

I have a Qteq ti-shaft for the gear diff, going to do some work on it soon...

The Reflex spurs are still running strong. Showing much less wear than the competition. I need to try to figure out what spacers to use with the Kyosho F1 diff, since the spacers that I have go inside of the right side pressure plate holder... The diff I built up has Qteq parts on the left side of the diff with a Reflex ring. The right side has to be the F1 diff parts to compensate for the offset. The Reflex ring is just a little too tight to work on the F1 diff. The way that I figure, lowering the mass of the left side of the diff without lowering the mass of the right side shouldnt have a negative affect on the handling of the car...

Junior, the Gear diffs have no slip, so all the power goes to the wheels, unlike ball diffs... You can control how tight the diff is by using different grease in the diff... I ran one for years, but as Brian has shown, the Qteq and reflex parts make a lighter diff... Which will make you able to get on power earlier in corner exit. The gear diff is stronger at corner entrance than the ball diff is, there is a lot of turn in, so on a high grip track, it is a good option. Low grip, you need a ball diff...

CristianTabush
2009.11.12, 06:11 PM
I took these from my MR-03 build. My MR-02 Build (http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/index.php?topic=291.0) As you can see if you build the QteQ diff with the right parts, It's lighter than the stock gear diff.

I've build 3 of them, the reflex parts are top notch, as well as the QteQ parts. I'm glad Reflex found them :)

stock gear diff, weight is 5.9 grams.
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_9.JPG

Kyosho Ball Diff, weight is 8.2 grams.
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_7.JPG

QteQ Ball diff, with Reflex light weight diff rings, Reflex ceramic balls, Reflex 53 tooth spur Gear, Qteq Diff housing, and PN ultra light weight diff shaft, weight is 4.4 grams.
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_8.JPG

Impressive!!!

I really need to buy a gram scale... :)

CristianTabush
2009.11.12, 06:13 PM
Brian, do you mind if I use the pics to demonstrate on the site?

briankstan
2009.11.12, 06:23 PM
Brian, do you mind if I use the pics to demonstrate on the site?

not at all, go for it...

pgeldz
2009.11.15, 11:48 PM
Ok fellas, I just picked up the QteQ diff but I'm needing a little help in choosing the rest of the components to make the lightest ball diff, WITHOUT having to use spacers or do any sanding, etc.

First off, I should mention I need to get close to the final drive of the stock 44T spur and 8Tpinion combo, which is 5.5

The closest I can get using Reflex Racing's 64p delrin spur gears is a 5.3 using the 53T spur and 10T pinion. Might be ok.

Question #1 - Is the 64p/53T spur smaller overall in diameter than the stock Kyosho 44T spur? I ask because when my tires are worn down to the optimal grip level, the stock spur is already close to rubbing the ground. If the 64p/53T is bigger, it'll rub.

Question #2 - What 64p pinions to use with Reflex Racing 64p spur (I see that Reflex Racing doesn't make pinions).

Questoin #4 - Which diff rings would have less sticking action with the Reflex spur, the stock Kyosho, or medium weight Reflex Racing rings (which are still lighter than stock)?

Question #3 - If the Reflex Racing spur will "stick" with either rings, than I'll use the Kyosho spur. Are the medium weight Reflex Racing rings compatible withoguh spacers/sanding, etc?

Question #4 - Which pinion is better foir the stock Kyosho spur, Kyosho delrin or PN pro match?

Shaft - I'm looking at the PN Racing MR2045UL shaft. Seems to be the lightest of the bunch at 1.29 grams.

Balls - Ceramic, or Carbon Ceramic?

I was leanign towards the Reflex medium weight rings, with the Reflex delrin spur, but I don't want any sticking.

Please advise.

:)

- Paulie

briankstan
2009.11.16, 09:13 AM
see answers in Red

Ok fellas, I just picked up the QteQ diff but I'm needing a little help in choosing the rest of the components to make the lightest ball diff, WITHOUT having to use spacers or do any sanding, etc.

First off, I should mention I need to get close to the final drive of the stock 44T spur and 8Tpinion combo, which is 5.5

The closest I can get using Reflex Racing's 64p delrin spur gears is a 5.3 using the 53T spur and 10T pinion. Might be ok.

Question #1 - Is the 64p/53T spur smaller overall in diameter than the stock Kyosho 44T spur? I ask because when my tires are worn down to the optimal grip level, the stock spur is already close to rubbing the ground. If the 64p/53T is bigger, it'll rub. I don't know the specific diameter, I just know that I haven't had a problem with it even when tires get worn down pretty low. here is a pic of mine from the back, with new tires of course. :)

http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_3.JPG

Question #2 - What 64p pinions to use with Reflex Racing 64p spur (I see that Reflex Racing doesn't make pinions). Use the PN Racing 64 Pitch Pinions they have from 9-14 tooth.

Questoin #4 - Which diff rings would have less sticking action with the Reflex spur, the stock Kyosho, or medium weight Reflex Racing rings (which are still lighter than stock)? for less to no sanding you want the Medium rings.

Question #3 - If the Reflex Racing spur will "stick" with either rings, than I'll use the Kyosho spur. Are the medium weight Reflex Racing rings compatible withoguh spacers/sanding, etc? if you aren't using the reflex spur, go with the PN 64 pitch spurs. you shouldn't need any spacers.

Question #4 - Which pinion is better foir the stock Kyosho spur, Kyosho delrin or PN pro match? either would be a good choice

Shaft - I'm looking at the PN Racing MR2045UL shaft. Seems to be the lightest of the bunch at 1.29 grams. yes

Balls - Ceramic, or Carbon Ceramic?

I was leanign towards the Reflex medium weight rings, with the Reflex delrin spur, but I don't want any sticking.

Please advise.

it's all in how you build it. you only have the sticking if you sand to much and and don't use the spacers, also the amount of grease you use can affect it as well. Hope that helps.

:)

- Paulie

CristianTabush
2009.11.16, 11:17 AM
Thanks for answering Brian. As for ceramic and carbon ceramic, They are essentially the same thing, as in it doesn't really make a difference... Spacing is really not that hard. The tutorial on how to do it will go up by tomorrow night. It is not hard at all and it is really worth doing it if you want to get the max performance from it.

If installed properly, I have heard nothing but positive comments about the spurs. To this point, every single customer that I have gotten feedback from has dropped their laptimes. :)

EMU
2009.11.16, 12:17 PM
Without sanding or shimming, none of the 64p gears will work. Then what is the point of going through the work of building the diff if you dont have the best parts in there. Spend a little time and effort in building the diff the right way now, and it will pay off on the track.

JeremyC
2009.11.16, 01:10 PM
Maybe I am daft, but what exactly are we sanding/shimming?

My experience is limited compared to you guys, but I have blueprinted two different diffs and had good results with both..

1) ATM with 64 pitch gears. Wet sanded the rings was basically all I did and it worked nicely. Didn't have any strange handling problems.

2) 3Racing with standard pitch. I followed the Reflex Racing Ball diff artcile: (http://www.reflexracing.net/MR02_build_part_1.asp) Wet sanded rings, and CA glued them to the back plates(using D rings, but there is a little play so I figured CA couldn't hurt). Again, this diff works nicely.

I'm looking forward to the RR article showing what is going on here... I'm assuming that the spur is hitting the plates and causing major problems.

Without sanding or shimming, none of the 64p gears will work. Then what is the point of going through the work of building the diff if you dont have the best parts in there. Spend a little time and effort in building the diff the right way now, and it will pay off on the track.

JeremyC
2009.11.16, 01:14 PM
Question #1 - Is the 64p/53T spur smaller overall in diameter than the stock Kyosho 44T spur? I ask because when my tires are worn down to the optimal grip level, the stock spur is already close to rubbing the ground. If the 64p/53T is bigger, it'll rub.

- Paulie

Seems like people missed this... The 64p/53T should be have an overall diameter that is a noticeably smaller than the K-44T spur.

I just changed a 64p/51T to a K-42T spur and the K-42T was quite a bit bigger.

CristianTabush
2009.11.16, 06:19 PM
Some people claim there is problems with the spur hitting the diff plates. This is practically impossible if the differential is rotating, due to centrifugal forces.

The side-to-side slop was something we noticed after we made the spurs with certain combination of brands of shafts/diff plates (all the axles have different spacing and they all have different thickness diff rings). This slop can cause excessive vibration, but this is easily fixed by simply installing a couple of washers on the axle to take up some of the slack on the axle. This does make the diff perform much better. Since all diffs are different, there is no "standard" number of shims that needs to be used, but there is a procedure on how to do it better. This should be up on the Reflex Site by tomorrow night.

On the V2 version of the spurs, we are "machining in" the spacer. This should lead to a much truer spinning spur and also much easier to use.

pgeldz
2009.11.18, 12:03 AM
Thanks fellas! I want to build the diff for its MAX performance, so a little sanding never hurt anyone. I just wanted to know what components I could use without having to do that, incase I didnt' have access to the proper shims.

I look forward to reading the tutorial on the shimming of the diff.

Thanks again everyone!

My only thing is that I can't get to a final drive of the stock 44T spur and 8T pinion. if the Reflex Racing does provide much more oomph though, than I guess it'll cancel otu the lower ratio, and give me the best of both worlds...punch AND higher top speed!

AWESOME!

I'll let ya know...

:)

- Paulie

pgeldz
2009.11.20, 11:22 PM
Cristian,

is the diff shimming tutorial on the site yet? I couldn't find it...

Can you link me to it?

- Paulie

JeremyC
2009.12.07, 01:54 AM
I took these from my MR-03 build. My MR-02 Build (http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/index.php?topic=291.0) As you can see if you build the QteQ diff with the right parts, It's lighter than the stock gear diff.

I've build 3 of them, the reflex parts are top notch, as well as the QteQ parts. I'm glad Reflex found them :)

stock gear diff, weight is 5.9 grams.
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_9.JPG

Kyosho Ball Diff, weight is 8.2 grams.
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_7.JPG

QteQ Ball diff, with Reflex light weight diff rings, Reflex ceramic balls, Reflex 53 tooth spur Gear, Qteq Diff housing, and PN ultra light weight diff shaft, weight is 4.4 grams.
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/2/thumb_1_08_11_09_2_37_28_8.JPG

This isn't accurate as you didn't include the left hub in these photos. I suspect the plastic one for the gear diff is different than any of the aluminum ones.

-Jer

-Jer

JeremyC
2009.12.07, 01:56 AM
I have the PN spacer set; will those washers work with to shim this spur gear?

-Jer

JeremyC
2009.12.14, 08:57 PM
Cristian,

is the diff shimming tutorial on the site yet? I couldn't find it...

Can you link me to it?

- Paulie

Bump for tutorial!

CristianTabush
2009.12.14, 10:10 PM
I am still trying to figure out the right sourcing for the spacers. I am waiting for them to make it a little more straight forward. I should be receiving some later on this week.