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Tjay
2009.10.30, 02:13 PM
Hi Guys,

I finally got to drive this MR03 last night! First thing I noticed on the car was the inconsistent pull/drift on one side when on the straight-away.Our current track layout has a chicane in the beginning of the straight-away and when the MR03 is almost at the end of the straight, it sometimes pull to the left. I looked at the frontend and noticed that this frontend is binding badly and that "left pull" I feel is probably coming from one of the binding arm/spring unloading in the end of the straight-away that causing it to pull on one side. So I did what most of us will do... call your bestfriends, Mr. Dremel and Uncle sandpaper. LOL

I did this last night till almost 4 in the morning then I found out that our friends from www.reflexracing.net has already done it. Thanks CT! I'll still post it below since it took me hours prepping this thing... :)

This is a comparison of polished (right arm) vs stock non-polished (left arm). You can see the left arm is sitting on top because it is not smooth enough to where it should be down.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0946.jpg

1. Tools that you'll need:
-dremel
-1/16 philips screw driver
-1500 grit sandpaper
-polishing compound
-kyosho kingpin dry lube
-qtip
-cloth (this case I just used my pit mat aka face towel. hehe...)
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0947.jpg

2. Remove the two screws that holds the front clip. (this car is already using ti screws but for stock, use regular philips screw driver).
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0948.jpg

3. Remove the plate with two knobs/nipples that covers/holds the springs using a long nose plier or tweezer.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0951.jpg

4. Remove the springs using tweezer.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0952.jpg

5. Flip the car over and remove the c-clip from the kingpin by using your finger to push on it.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0955.jpg

6. Using the 1/16th philips screw driver, remove the screw that holds the top arm.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0959.jpg

7. Pull the pin out.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0960.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0962.jpg

Tjay
2009.10.30, 02:14 PM
8. With your finger, pull the top arm out.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0964.jpg

9. Then the knuckle.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0966.jpg

Tjay
2009.10.30, 04:32 PM
9. Remove the shim/s that is on the king pin.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0967.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0968.jpg

10. Push on the kingpin like so (It should pop right off).
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0970.jpg

11. Insert the kingpin on a dremel.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0972.jpg

12. Turn the dremel on and polish it using 1500-2000 grit.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0973.jpg

13. Apply polishing compound.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0975.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0976.jpg

14. Also polish the screw/pin that holds the top arm. This is probably not necessary but I did it anyway since it only took 1min to polish one.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0977.jpg

I had to hand polish it using 1/16th philips. I didn't have the right locking tool for my dremel.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0978.jpg

with the dremel, you want all the pins to be mirror like finish. Mine was just to remove the paint since I didn't use dremel
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0979.jpg

Tjay
2009.10.30, 04:42 PM
15. Insert the knuckle on the kingpin and let it run for about 20-30 seconds at a very low rpm.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0985.jpg

16. Apply drops of kyosho dry lube on all the pins.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0980.jpg

17. Place the kingpin back on the lower arm. I used my nail to kind of push it in.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0981.jpg

18. I spun the kingpin with the dremel for about 20 sec at a very, very low rpm. This is to break the hole in. Make sure to not over do it!
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0982.jpg

19. Then put everything back together and you should be set!
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0986.jpg

Now you have a bind FREE MR03 frontend. Well, let's hope so. :D

Thanks for reading!!!

arch2b
2009.10.30, 07:01 PM
thank you for the process description and images. :)

littleleon
2009.10.30, 07:07 PM
Very nicely done. Thanks.

Skv012a
2009.10.30, 07:33 PM
Very nice tut for when the rest of us get our hands on 03, thanks!

roland
2009.10.30, 07:54 PM
Thank's TJ.

MINI-D
2009.10.30, 09:46 PM
Thank YOU much Tjay. :cool:

D

EMU
2009.10.31, 12:23 AM
Good job Tjay. Ill be sure to follow the same steps when I get my MR03...

Programmers
2009.10.31, 05:22 AM
That's an awesome tutorial. Cheers!

pfcparts
2009.10.31, 12:16 PM
Nice. Extra mileage is always appreciated.

I usually pull the kingpins from the bottom, but that
way is much easier. Would it be easier to pop out
during collisions if that top method is used?

On one of my cars, I noticed a problem before
even taking it out. Some left over material may be
stuck on the arms and could actually be touching
the screw holder for the top plate, :eek: so check
for that as well.


parts

briankstan
2009.10.31, 01:29 PM
I followed your tutorial last night before I even put my car on the track. Front end seems nice and smooth. I haven't made any changes to the chassis yet, but just in stock form it moves pretty good.

color01
2009.10.31, 02:35 PM
Excellent tut TJ. I'll be sure to do this to my 03 when it arrives. :)

Tjay
2009.10.31, 09:23 PM
Thank you guys!

Ok, so I was finally able to test this car with the bind free frontend and WOW but before we go there, let me just say that we had a race last night that consisted of MR02's with stock frontend and PN A-Arm frontend and their fast times were:

MR02 stock frontend (plastic chassis)= 10.05
MR02 PN frontend= 10.08
MR02 PN frontend= 10.01

That being said, I knew it is still possible to shave couple of tenths in a few days but that is it. I was predicting 9.8's with the MR02 but this has to be race cells, fast motor and full concentration while driving... Right when I put the MR03 on the track, it already did a 10.3X and then on it's 3-4th lap it was already doing 9.9X fast laps and this is on a battery pack that I used from last nights race. Right away, I placed my 750R1 batts on the charger to see how this MR03 will do with a freshly charged packs. When the pack was done, the car has so much speed that I thought I'd loose the steering but it didn't. The car still had the initial steering off-power and on-power steering (this is comparing to MR02 stock frontend)!!! After less than 20 laps on the track with the new pack, the car was dropping hot consistent laps of 9.7-9.8 and dropped a 9.6 fastest lap!!!

I feel that you can throw this car anywhere and still get the steering that you're looking for. Bumpsteer? Not with this frontend. Wandering? Once you get rid of that binding, this car will track straight like how your stock MR02 frontend would. The new electronics made the steering super precise and did I mention that the car was tested on a stock frontend with stock H-plate? Yes sir! Only mod we had on the car were:

ATM titanium Damper Plate
PN Damper disc V2
PN/Kyosho Diff
PN 94-98 pod
PN rear shocks
PN6 rear (radials)
PN20 fronts (slicks)
+1 offset front
+1 offset rear
Atomic USA motor
53/13 64p PN gears
SC430 testbody

everything in the front was pretty much stock except for the wheels and tires.

I don't have an 03 yet (thanks kyosho america!) so I had to borrow my friends car for test and tune. After playing with this car for about 4-6 hours. I must say, there will be a lot of MR02's that will be on ebay shortly. ;)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0988.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0987.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0991.jpg

Tjay
2009.10.31, 09:29 PM
Oh before I forget, Thanks to Derrick for letting hook up his car (you owe me dinner LOL) and to MINI-D for the polishing compound ( I still remember sir. ;-) ) Thank you!

I should have my MR03 shortly and if I find more goodies, I'll let you guys know!

lfisminiz
2009.11.01, 01:57 AM
TJ, thanks. Its good to hear a good test session with a pro. Appreciated:). I have 2 sitting here on the bench.....need time to work on them:eek:;)

Felix2010
2009.11.01, 08:55 AM
Thank you guys!

Ok, so I was finally able to test this car with the bind free frontend and WOW but before we go there, let me just say that we had a race last night that consisted of MR02's with stock frontend and PN A-Arm frontend and their fast times were:

MR02 stock frontend (plastic chassis)= 10.05
MR02 PN frontend= 10.08
MR02 PN frontend= 10.01

That being said, I knew it is still possible to shave couple of tenths in a few days but that is it. I was predicting 9.8's with the MR02 but this has to be race cells, fast motor and full concentration while driving... Right when I put the MR03 on the track, it already did a 10.3X and then on it's 3-4th lap it was already doing 9.9X fast laps and this is on a battery pack that I used from last nights race. Right away, I placed my 750R1 batts on the charger to see how this MR03 will do with a freshly charged packs. When the pack was done, the car has so much speed that I thought I'd loose the steering but it didn't. The car still had the initial steering off-power and on-power steering (this is comparing to MR02 stock frontend)!!! After less than 20 laps on the track with the new pack, the car was dropping hot consistent laps of 9.7-9.8 and dropped a 9.6 fastest lap!!!

I feel that you can throw this car anywhere and still get the steering that you're looking for. Bumpsteer? Not with this frontend. Wandering? Once you get rid of that binding, this car will track straight like how your stock MR02 frontend would. The new electronics made the steering super precise and did I mention that the car was tested on a stock frontend with stock H-plate? Yes sir! Only mod we had on the car were:

ATM titanium Damper Plate
PN Damper disc V2
PN/Kyosho Diff
PN 94-98 pod
PN rear shocks
PN6 rear (radials)
PN20 fronts (slicks)
+1 offset front
+1 offset rear
Atomic USA motor
53/13 64p PN gears
SC430 testbody

everything in the front was pretty much stock except for the wheels and tires.

I don't have an 03 yet (thanks kyosho america!) so I had to borrow my friends car for test and tune. After playing with this car for about 4-6 hours. I must say, there will be a lot of MR02's that will be on ebay shortly. ;)


TJ - THANK YOU for the invaluable information my friend!:D Great stuff. Awesome tutorial also.

blt456
2009.11.01, 01:02 PM
Tj...nice tutorial and setup... is the mr03 front end easier to drive than the PN a-arm? I have the PN a-arm on the mr02 and it seems to have a major steering delay...does the mr03 fix this too? thanks :)

Tjay
2009.11.01, 02:01 PM
I usually pull the kingpins from the bottom, but that
way is much easier. Would it be easier to pop out
during collisions if that top method is used?

On one of my cars, I noticed a problem before
even taking it out. Some left over material may be
stuck on the arms and could actually be touching
the screw holder for the top plate, so check
for that as well

@ parts: pulling the kingping from the bottom is also a good idea. I didn't even think about that.

You're right! As a matter of fact, I had sanded mine where the top arm meets the chassis. Just a little because that too can cause binding issue.


is the mr03 front end easier to drive than the PN a-arm? I have the PN a-arm on the mr02 and it seems to have a major steering delay...does the mr03 fix this too?


@ Luke (blt): What do you mean easier to drive? Easier to drive would be a PN stock spec car with PN 20 slicks front and PN 6 radials rear with stock frontend. That would be the car to drive if you're looking for an "easier" car to drive. The only difference that I noticed between the two ( MR03 frontend vs PN A-A) is that PN steers when you hit a bump and this will not go away because of the design. PN A-A having a "major" steering delay is something that I've never heard before. You might want to check the frontend mechanically and your radio settings. If you're running this on your Pan, you might want to consider running WTF v2.

Thank you! :)

Cherub1m
2009.11.01, 11:16 PM
Thank you guys!

Ok, so I was finally able to test this car with the bind free frontend and WOW but before we go there, let me just say that we had a race last night that consisted of MR02's with stock frontend and PN A-Arm frontend and their fast times were:

MR02 stock frontend (plastic chassis)= 10.05
MR02 PN frontend= 10.08
MR02 PN frontend= 10.01

That being said, I knew it is still possible to shave couple of tenths in a few days but that is it. I was predicting 9.8's with the MR02 but this has to be race cells, fast motor and full concentration while driving... Right when I put the MR03 on the track, it already did a 10.3X and then on it's 3-4th lap it was already doing 9.9X fast laps and this is on a battery pack that I used from last nights race. Right away, I placed my 750R1 batts on the charger to see how this MR03 will do with a freshly charged packs. When the pack was done, the car has so much speed that I thought I'd loose the steering but it didn't. The car still had the initial steering off-power and on-power steering (this is comparing to MR02 stock frontend)!!! After less than 20 laps on the track with the new pack, the car was dropping hot consistent laps of 9.7-9.8 and dropped a 9.6 fastest lap!!!

I feel that you can throw this car anywhere and still get the steering that you're looking for. Bumpsteer? Not with this frontend. Wandering? Once you get rid of that binding, this car will track straight like how your stock MR02 frontend would. The new electronics made the steering super precise and did I mention that the car was tested on a stock frontend with stock H-plate? Yes sir! Only mod we had on the car were:

ATM titanium Damper Plate
PN Damper disc V2
PN/Kyosho Diff
PN 94-98 pod
PN rear shocks
PN6 rear (radials)
PN20 fronts (slicks)
+1 offset front
+1 offset rear
Atomic USA motor
53/13 64p PN gears
SC430 testbody

everything in the front was pretty much stock except for the wheels and tires.

I don't have an 03 yet (thanks kyosho america!) so I had to borrow my friends car for test and tune. After playing with this car for about 4-6 hours. I must say, there will be a lot of MR02's that will be on ebay shortly. ;)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0988.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0987.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/Teejay_Cynthia/FPR%20Mini-Z/IMG_0991.jpg

Wow nice write up Tjay, and lots of nice hop ups on the 03. Thanks for sharing. I was wondering did you drive any of the MR02's that hit the 10.05, 10.08 and 10.01? or we're the 02 driven by someone else?

Tjay
2009.11.02, 12:33 AM
Wow nice write up Tjay, and lots of nice hop ups on the 03. Thanks for sharing. I was wondering did you drive any of the MR02's that hit the 10.05, 10.08 and 10.01? or we're the 02 driven by someone else?

Hi Philip,

Thank you and you're welcome! I'll try to share as much as I can to everyone here since I pretty much sleep on RCP. :D As for the rearend on the 03, I basically just moved all my MR02 rearend over to the MR03 for testing.

I did the 10.08 with the stock MR02 frontend.

The stock MR02 is very capable of hitting a consistent low 10's lap time but that night I got hit during practice and my car started acting up. The rear end was locking when completely off throttle. I found out that I busted the thrust bearing... This afternoon I went to the track and tried out the car with a better working thrust bearing and right off the bat the car was already in 10.0-10.1 and in less than 3 mins the car was hitting consistent 9.9X. Not as fast as the 03 but enough to compete with the other upgraded add-on frontend.

When I have time, I'll try to do some write up (fpr site) on my new set-up and explain why I'm running certain parts. I like my car right now because I get to pick a line on where to go. Almost like stock 10th scale racing but mini-z.

Stay tuned...

Tjay
2009.11.02, 03:32 AM
I forgot to mention. My MR02 only runs stock fets, 3010's.

...MR02 set up is now updated. Please visit this link: http://fastpaceracing.com/content/mr02-basic-set.

Thanks!

MINI-D
2009.11.03, 08:39 AM
Hi Tjay,
just want to say that you and Peter have a great website. :D

D

Tjay
2009.11.03, 12:16 PM
Hi Mr D,

Thank you for the kind words and also thanks for checking our site! :D We'll see you soon!

herman
2009.11.03, 09:03 PM
fantastic write up tj... :D
thanks for sharing...

greenepa76
2009.11.05, 10:45 AM
Hi Tjay,

Thanks for the write up. I did mine right after I got it and the binding and notchiness recurs after polishing 3 times. It seems smooth at first, then it will get this notchy feeling again as it wears travels further up. It has a mirror finish, but seems that the steel pivot balls maybe the culprit and is re-notching in a specific area as the wear is noticeable. The wear marks only appear in the resting position of the steering knuckle as it pivots during steering. Are you noticing any problems of the binding reoccurring?

We have 3 MR03's here and mine seems the worse of the bunch. We had one that was perfectly smooth from the factory. The kingpins on my 03 had machining marks all the way across before polishing.

Tjay
2009.11.05, 01:24 PM
Hi Tjay,

Thanks for the write up. I did mine right after I got it and the binding and notchiness recurs after polishing 3 times. It seems smooth at first, then it will get this notchy feeling again as it wears travels further up. It has a mirror finish, but seems that the steel pivot balls maybe the culprit and is re-notching in a specific area as the wear is noticeable. The wear marks only appear in the resting position of the steering knuckle as it pivots during steering. Are you noticing any problems of the binding reoccurring?

We have 3 MR03's here and mine seems the worse of the bunch. We had one that was perfectly smooth from the factory. The kingpins on my 03 had machining marks all the way across before polishing.

Hi greenepa76,

Sorry to hear that. I dont have an MR03 yet (should be today :)). I just borrowed a friends 03 for testing. Luckily the binding hasn't come back to hunt us however, the left side of this particular 03 is still not as smooth as the right side even after spending hours on that thing.

Most of the MR02 kingpins has machining marks on them. I suggest polishing them to mirror like finish to make it smoother. Imagine those lines rubbing up and down, back and forth against the plastic knuckles...

Is this binding significantly noticeable when driving? If so, you may also want to look at the steering glitch that can also be confused with the binding.

Good Luck!

greenepa76
2009.11.05, 02:00 PM
Steering is super smooth. I don't have any electronics issues with it yet.
Even though polished to a mirror shine, I feel it maybe the kingpin material being too soft because as soon as the steel pivot ball rotates and slides up and down a few times on them, the notchiness comes back, but only in the upper end of of the steering knuckle's travel.

Hopefully you'll have better luck. Let us know how it goes with yours.

MantisMMA
2009.11.05, 02:59 PM
thats what stainless does, it is not very good at what we are trying to use it for. a regular a-36 or 1018 CR would be better and then have them TiNi coated.

Traveler
2009.11.05, 03:47 PM
Probably not as good as what Mantis is talking about, but Kyosho is releasing Part No. MZW407 - SP STAINLESS KING PIN BALL. Claims to "Uses finely polished stainless steel. Results in smooth movement of front suspension and excellent running performance."

greenepa76
2009.11.05, 04:57 PM
Probably not as good as what Mantis is talking about, but Kyosho is releasing Part No. MZW407 - SP STAINLESS KING PIN BALL. Claims to "Uses finely polished stainless steel. Results in smooth movement of front suspension and excellent running performance."

Must be the same pin as in the kit, but the "SP" just means Super Polished? Not going to be much of a long lasting difference if it just wears in and creates bad spots on the surface of the pin.

pfcparts
2009.11.05, 09:18 PM
Are you sure the bindings not something else?

There might be some excess material hanging out
somewhere... A few of the washers were actually
really really tight as well. I was able to polish a
stock set nicely without issues...

Probably luck of the draw lol. :p

The SP pins are actually a little more snug.

They polish really really easy compared to
the stockers and combined with flourine oil
they are very very free.

The stock springs are just too hard and can
make the suspension feel grainy I think..

K will be releasing 4.7mm fluorine coated balls
and a different set of pins (hopefully longer)
along with some aluminum spacers so there
will be some relief soon. :D


parts

greenepa76
2009.11.06, 09:50 AM
Hey Pfc,
There isn't any binding anywhere else. Everything slides on and off freely. I'll just wait for the new parts when they do come out. I'll just keep polishing or keep an eye out for stuff that become available. I have been using that thick silicone based diff grease on the kingpins to help dampen some of the movement now and seems to prolong the intervals of repolishing. One day they'll look like coke bottles from the polishing and not the wear. ;)

We play with these things for about 35 mins. everyday during our lunch hour here so it does get very used and it's logging in scale miles. I'm very happy to say this thing has been pretty flawless except for the kingpins on mine. The other two MR-03's we have just have noisier servo centering, but perfect and smooth kingpins.

Now to wait for the aftermarket upgrades. Where did you get the SP kingpins?

Tjay
2009.11.06, 12:14 PM
Hey greenepa76,

Which surface do you race on at work?

RCP= lots of traction
Carpet (commercial)= traction
Floor (cement/wood)= zero traction

greenepa76
2009.11.06, 02:18 PM
Its an RCP track about 20'x30'