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pinwc4
2009.11.23, 05:32 PM
UPDATED 1/1/2010 with new build

A test version of 0.34 is available for download here for Windows:
http://www.flipsideracing.org/downloads/fsraceWin-441.zip

The Mac version is available here:
http://www.flipsideracing.org/downloads/fsraceOSX-441.zip

The utility to initialize generic RFID tags in Windows is here:
http://www.flipsideracing.org/downloads/KyoshoRFIDInit.zip

For Mac it is here:
http://www.flipsideracing.org/downloads/KyoshoRFIDInit-OSX.zip

I have not had a chance to test this thoroughly yet but as our next race night is a few weeks away I though I would publish it anyways.

New Features

Kyosho IC lap counter support
Support for a secondary lap counter so you can do rally style races or use 2 core lap counters to cover a wider track


Changes, Enhancements

Lap remaining annoucements at 50, 30, 20 and 10 laps remaining


Bug fixes

Fixed bug not showing lap 1 for individual lap times on graph


There are probably other things I have forgotten also. Again this is a test version, with the extended hardware support there will probably be bugs. Please provide feedback.

Pierro
2009.11.29, 12:31 PM
Hello Pinwc4!

We installed the flip side racing software and tested it a little at the club.

First impressions are, the soft is good, very friendly and easy to understand.

A guy of the club has tested it alone and it was working efficiently. But as we tried it with two cars, the system get bugged.

In a little race, we manage to have some 1.5' laps and other 3' and 2' seconds.
After setting a minimal time of 11' per laps, we started again and have a few laps. Unfortunately, we get some best lap of 11'45 and 11'55 respectively.
The problem is that the track record is a 11'70 and with another car wich is much quicker than the two me were running.

Have you had such problems when running more than one car in a race?
I do not know if where's the problem. Perhaps a misreading of the tags in the area around the counter?

I can email you the data from the testing we've done if you're interrested in. let me know where I can e-mail it.

Anyway, your soft is really a cool work and we really wish the bugs can be fixed.

pinwc4
2009.11.30, 11:31 AM
Hello Pinwc4!

We installed the flip side racing software and tested it a little at the club.

First impressions are, the soft is good, very friendly and easy to understand.

A guy of the club has tested it alone and it was working efficiently. But as we tried it with two cars, the system get bugged.

In a little race, we manage to have some 1.5' laps and other 3' and 2' seconds.
After setting a minimal time of 11' per laps, we started again and have a few laps. Unfortunately, we get some best lap of 11'45 and 11'55 respectively.
The problem is that the track record is a 11'70 and with another car wich is much quicker than the two me were running.

Have you had such problems when running more than one car in a race?
I do not know if where's the problem. Perhaps a misreading of the tags in the area around the counter?

I can email you the data from the testing we've done if you're interrested in. let me know where I can e-mail it.

Anyway, your soft is really a cool work and we really wish the bugs can be fixed.

Thank you for the feedback. That is an interesting problem you are encountering. I expect that the errant short laps and best lap times problem are related. I have never seen a problem like it nor have I heard from anyone else encountering such a problem.

It is possible that the lap counter could pick up a tag if the antenna was close enough to another portion of the track, but I doubt this is the case for you as I think we would only see one of the issues you describe as cars get near the lap counter on another portion of the track. If the lap counter has not moved and you had not encountered this before it is probably something in the software.

Which lap counting hardware are you using, Core or Kyosho? Were you using a previous version of this software with no issues?

One thing that may help me a little bit is if you could send me your database file. It is in the software's directory and called flipsidedb. Email it to pinwc4 at flipsidehobbies.com

Pierro
2009.11.30, 03:18 PM
Hello!

You're right, I forgot to mention we use the kyosho system.
The only program we have used before with this is the kyosho original one.

Before, we were using the lap-z. The lap-z arch is at the other side of the straight, so it isn't a problem with these.

The counter is placed at the beginning of the straight, just after a large u turn. You can see the track layout here:
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31835

On the picture, you can see the curves have a number. The lap counter is now set between N6 and the finish line on the first picture.

pinwc4
2009.11.30, 03:51 PM
Hello!

You're right, I forgot to mention we use the kyosho system.
The only program we have used before with this is the kyosho original one.

Before, we were using the lap-z. The lap-z arch is at the other side of the straight, so it isn't a problem with these.

The counter is placed at the beginning of the straight, just after a large u turn. You can see the track layout here:
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31835

On the picture, you can see the curves have a number. The lap counter is now set between N6 and the finish line on the first picture.

That antenna placement would not be a problem, especially with the Kyosho lap counter as it only has a range of a few inches from the antenna. I do like your idea of having the curve numbered like that.

Just to make sure, you are using only Kyosho RFID tags and not generic ones correct? I do not have the support done yet for the generic rfid tags.

From what you were seeing happen is it possible that some of the cars were getting laps counted when a different car crossed the line? For example lets say you have Car A and Car B. Car A crosses the lap counter and gets a lap, then a few seconds later Car B crosses the lap counter but both Car A and Car B get counted for a lap. If that is the case then I might have data getting stuck in the buffer and not being processed when it should have been. This is just speculation at this point though.

Go ahead and send me the flipsidedb file so I can look at it.

I guess I need to get more generic tags working, I only have 1 tag to test with and we had not had a race night yet for me to test with multiple cars.

I am sure we can get this straightened out.

Thanks for the help

Pierro
2009.12.01, 09:09 AM
Hello!

You're right, we only use kyosho tags at the moment.

The problem might be like you said, but we need to test out more deeply on saturday wich is the club meeting. With someone cheching out as the cars crosses the lap counter.

We only race every two weeks (but some of us including myself are almost there every week^^) and the computer stay at the club so I won't be able to mail you the data until this week-end.

pinwc4
2009.12.02, 10:07 PM
Hello!

You're right, we only use kyosho tags at the moment.

The problem might be like you said, but we need to test out more deeply on saturday wich is the club meeting. With someone cheching out as the cars crosses the lap counter.

We only race every two weeks (but some of us including myself are almost there every week^^) and the computer stay at the club so I won't be able to mail you the data until this week-end.

Yeah, as I look at this more I do think that is what is going on. It appears as though the newest data in the buffer is not getting processed for some reason. I am still stumped why though. It is the nearly same code that I use for processing the data from the Core reader and I do not end up with data stuck in the buffer for that hardware. I am continuing to investigate and hope to have this resolved soon.

pinwc4
2009.12.05, 10:30 AM
OK, I have a new build available. Hopefully this will take care of the false lap problem with the Kyosho hardware. I added extra logic to try to prevent data from getting stuck in the buffer until another car crosses.

You can download it here:

http://www.flipsideracing.org/downloads/fsraceWin-433.zip

Those of you with Kyosho hardware please let me know how it work or you.

Thanks

mleemor60
2009.12.05, 04:10 PM
Is there a program difference between the flipside/core and the flipside/kyosho programming? If not I should be able to run my Dnano on the flipside/core set up. Correct? I'm using V33 and have nearly debugged the whole tag size/placement issues that I have run across.

pinwc4
2009.12.05, 04:19 PM
Is there a program difference between the flipside/core and the flipside/kyosho programming? If not I should be able to run my Dnano on the flipside/core set up. Correct? I'm using V33 and have nearly debugged the whole tag size/placement issues that I have run across.

I do not think anyone has confirmed that racing the Dnano with a core lap counter and flip side software works. I had a Dnano for a bit and can confirm the core reader will read the Dnano tag but you have to have it closer to the edges of the antenna for it to pick up the Dnano, it does not detect it in the middle of the antenna loop.

If you find that it does fine during races let us know, it would be nice to know one way or another.

V34 does not add anything for this purpose, V33 should work for you and I am still debugging V34 so unless you are looking for the new features such as Kyosho lap counter support stick with V33 for now. Unless of course you are willing to test and give feedback, I always welcome feedback.

Thanks

mleemor60
2009.12.05, 07:42 PM
I'm sure the read issue with the Dnano is the same as the small generic tag placed on the bottom of a Z chassis. Poor results. I have found that if you get the tag higher off the track it will read every lap. Even the medium sized generics were intermittent at best when placed under the chassis. Only the large tags would read every time when attached to the bottom.

I will try to run my Dnano on V33 and see if it will read. I will report when I have results.

Pierro
2009.12.06, 09:52 AM
Hello!

I just sent you the DB file you asked me.
We will test out this new release ASAP and give you our feedback.

Thanks a lot.

arch2b
2009.12.06, 10:07 AM
i'm still using old core and flipside so not pressing to test the new beta unless new features have been added but it looks like this is geared toward the kyo system right now. i look forward to moving up with newer releases as they come along that add features :)

if you need the dnano again, all you have to do is ask :)

pinwc4
2009.12.06, 07:48 PM
i'm still using old core and flipside so not pressing to test the new beta unless new features have been added but it looks like this is geared toward the kyo system right now. i look forward to moving up with newer releases as they come along that add features :)

if you need the dnano again, all you have to do is ask :)

Thanks for the offer, I greatly appreciate you letting me borrow it. I would not have been able to get this working without it. I have figured out enough now to have generic tags working for myself so I do not need Kyosho tags anymore for my testing.

When .34 is officially out I would still recommend upgrading, it does have some other small bug fixes. The main things it brings though is the Kyosho support, multiple lap counter support, and text to speech for laps remain in a lap based race.

We ran our races last night and I tested the Kyosho lap counter with multiple generic tags and did not run into the problem of false lap counts so I think that bug is taken care of, I hope.

Generic tags are still not functional for other people though, right now I have to program them with my Core reader to make them work with the Kyosho. I will probably have a separate program in a few weeks so people can "initialize" generic tags to be used with the Kyosho reader. I am still trying to come up with a good choice of generic tags to use. The larger Core tags were mostly working, depending on the placement on the car.

LogicBytes
2009.12.12, 11:34 AM
To upgrade from .33 to .34 do you only need to copy over the FlipSideDB to retain the Tags that are allready scanned in?

pinwc4
2009.12.12, 01:55 PM
To upgrade from .33 to .34 do you only need to copy over the FlipSideDB to retain the Tags that are allready scanned in?

Yes, you will want to copy that file to retain any racer info including races themselves and you will also want to copy the preferences.xml file.

Pierro
2009.12.12, 03:01 PM
Hello!

Version .34 succesfully tested today! All cars ran fine and no problems of false count in the software.

It seams you have found the bug by yourself. We must keep testing all fonctions and mode of the software and we'll let you know the bug we may have.

During the week, Fred will also try you programming software with some tags he has got. I'll let you know how it will turn out.

Thanks again for this superb software.

Pierro
2009.12.31, 02:51 AM
Hello!

Some more testing later...
We really love your soft!!

The programming of new tags works very well. We even found out the kyosho one was one onf the worst to be detected. (at least when you put it on another location than the bottom of the chassis)

About the race soft, we think that adding the possibility to check all the times per lap during the race would be cool.
We changed the voice setting to get it in French. There is still some minor spelling bugs but it works pretty well.

briankstan
2009.12.31, 07:21 AM
About the race soft, we think that adding the possibility to check all the times per lap during the race would be cool.

you can do this under the statistics, use the pull down on the upper left to select "by lap time" then you can select the racer and is shows their individual lap times. you can also see them by generating the race report.

Pierro
2009.12.31, 10:26 AM
Yes, we use that function. I mean, during the race in fact. ;)

pinwc4
2009.12.31, 10:41 AM
briankstan is correct for after races, but for during the race I do not have that feature.

You can look at the graphs during the race but if you click any of the tables it does not show the results for the race in progress. You can watch the "Time Per Lap" graph during the race but again it is a graph and not a table of specific times.

I will have to think about this one, maybe there would be an easy way to add this but I am not sure. Right now when you select race names and individual racers it pulls that info from the database, but a running race is not in the database yet to query.

Oh and as for French speech that is very interesting. If you have created an alternative language.xml I would appreciate it if you sent it to me so I can include it with the program for other people.

Pierro
2010.01.01, 05:19 PM
Thanks for your comments.

I'll try to get the file that Fred converted and mail it to you.
By the way, the possibility of checking the time per lap would be usefull on a free practice with no time limit. As we run most of the time with free practice and it's easier to set up your car when you can try something, make a few laps, see the time result, change another point, make a few lap, etc...

Also, one feature we really love on your soft is the personnal best lap annoucement. Really cool to be able to know if you beated your personnal best lap without need to go and check the screen.

pinwc4
2010.01.01, 05:56 PM
Thanks for your comments.

I'll try to get the file that Fred converted and mail it to you.
By the way, the possibility of checking the time per lap would be usefull on a free practice with no time limit. As we run most of the time with free practice and it's easier to set up your car when you can try something, make a few laps, see the time result, change another point, make a few lap, etc...

Also, one feature we really love on your soft is the personnal best lap annoucement. Really cool to be able to know if you beated your personnal best lap without need to go and check the screen.

Thanks

While I do not have the ability to look at individual lap times during the race for practice there is already a feature built in that you may find useful.

On the race config page you can change the lap indication. By default it will beep each time a racer gets a lap. You can change to instead call out each lap time. Or my favorite is to change it to call out the difference between your current lap and your best lap.

In this mode it will announce when you get a new best lap and then if the next lap is slower it will say something like .2 if your next lap is .2 seconds slower. This is really usefull when practicing as you can take your car off the track, tweak things and immediately get feedback about the difference, or you can try different lines around the track and hear how much slower or faster they are.

Now if have you quite a few cars on the track this is not useful as all the speech gets jumbled together but for practicing it is useful.

mleemor60
2010.01.01, 07:39 PM
Any luck with getting together a workable tutorial for us old guys?

pinwc4
2010.01.01, 09:35 PM
Any luck with getting together a workable tutorial for us old guys?

Sorry to say that documentation is still very lacking. I plan on this being a priority after I polish up the Linux version. I got a netbook for Christmas so this is my next goal now.

Now most of the controls have help tags so if you put your mouse cursor over some setting you are curious about it should pop up a small description. It is not a substitute for good documentation but it is all I have so far.

pinwc4
2010.01.01, 09:39 PM
UPDATED 1/1/2010 with new build

A test version of 0.34 is available for download here for Windows:
http://www.flipsideracing.org/downloads/fsraceWin-441.zip

The Mac version is available here:
http://www.flipsideracing.org/downloads/fsraceOSX-441.zip

The utility to initialize generic RFID tags in Windows is here:
http://www.flipsideracing.org/downloads/KyoshoRFIDInit.zip

For Mac it is here:
http://www.flipsideracing.org/downloads/KyoshoRFIDInit-OSX.zip

This will hopefully be the final test build for version .34

The scan buttons have been removed when using Kyosho hardware now as they were made with the Core hardware in mind. Instead if you are on the select racers screen and you drive a car over the finish line it will be added to the selected racers automatically no scanning needed.

Other small changes included additional help tags for controls, text rearranged on the front page and dNaNo and 1:43 scales were added to the edit racers screen.