PDA

View Full Version : AWD on RCP, and questions


Apie
2010.01.25, 12:04 PM
Take 2 my 1st post was lost...

So, I was running my awd for the 1st time this weekend on my new RCP track. I have several questions for you seasoned awd'ers. This is my car:
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27330

1. My track is coating my car in a fine white dust, and it is making the tires very slippery (PN rcp slick 6d all around). I have used windex but it only helps for a few minutes. Is there other tires I should try? maybe ones with a tread?

2. I have a 98mm body. Does the stock center shaft fit or do I need an extended shaft?

3. After about 80 laps I broke the rear center shaft mount :mad:. Do I need to replace the whole chassis?! I have done a lot of work on my Overlands, and the AWD looks a bit easier to deal with. Does it takes hours to change the chassis? 20 minutes? I am getting the PN alum. shaft mount, is there any other thing I should consider? This seems to be the most annoying breakage possible for an AWD. The screw just cracked off the chassis and took the threaded plastic part with it.

4. Where can I find spurs and center shaft pinions? I can't find the 98mm extended ones that fit!!

This is the most fun Ive had in rc for a while..mini-z's are sweet, but a modded AWD on rcp is just rc perfection. I am so bummed I broke that mount, now I'm out for a few days :(

Apie
2010.01.25, 12:20 PM
Is there some kind of rcp maintenance I should know about? Vaccuuming, brushing, any thing like that to keep it in good shape?

Action B
2010.01.25, 01:36 PM
Take 2 my 1st post was lost...

So, I was running my awd for the 1st time this weekend on my new RCP track. I have several questions for you seasoned awd'ers. This is my car:
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27330

1. My track is coating my car in a fine white dust, and it is making the tires very slippery (PN rcp slick 6d all around). I have used windex but it only helps for a few minutes. Is there other tires I should try? maybe ones with a tread?

2. I have a 98mm body. Does the stock center shaft fit or do I need an extended shaft?

3. After about 80 laps I broke the rear center shaft mount :mad:. Do I need to replace the whole chassis?! I have done a lot of work on my Overlands, and the AWD looks a bit easier to deal with. Does it takes hours to change the chassis? 20 minutes? I am getting the PN alum. shaft mount, is there any other thing I should consider? This seems to be the most annoying breakage possible for an AWD. The screw just cracked off the chassis and took the threaded plastic part with it.

4. Where can I find spurs and center shaft pinions? I can't find the 98mm extended ones that fit!!

This is the most fun Ive had in rc for a while..mini-z's are sweet, but a modded AWD on rcp is just rc perfection. I am so bummed I broke that mount, now I'm out for a few days :(

1. Try some softer tires, skip worrying about tread. The title says your car is setup like Christian Tabush, as is mine. For RCP I use atomic 20 degree rear and 30 degree front (semiwides all around). Christian Tabush 98mm setup does not use wide rear wheels. I find this tire setup to work very well for me and my girlfriends car.

2. The stock shaft works if you get 98mm gears. Basically the gear itself is longer.

3 IF the mount itself broke and its a part of the main chassis, you'll have to replace the chassis itself. This took me around 2 hours my first try. Now it takes me around 30 minutes PROVIDING I don't have to change the servo gear casing (which you shouldn't have to). Strange you had that issue with the blue/grey chassis. This only happened to my girlfriends original smoke chassis. From my experience its not a common problem (I've been racing for two years with the same car and its never happened to me.

4.Right here -

http://www.reflexracing.net/proddetail.asp?prod=MA0120

or

http://www.reflexracing.net/proddetail.asp?prod=AWD140



Also, I found this aluminum shaft to be really straight:

http://www.reflexracing.net/proddetail.asp?prod=RX1131

And just look at the weight difference..
Also, you can use stock plastic pinion, which has a better mesh.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2769/4303860325_f41087e733.jpg
Stock

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4304605558_e058aec9bd.jpg
Reflex Aluminum

Action B
2010.01.25, 01:39 PM
Is there some kind of rcp maintenance I should know about? Vaccuuming, brushing, any thing like that to keep it in good shape?

Vaccuming is good for sure. Just make sure you leave the brushes on the hardwood floor setting, or whatever makes the brushes the furthest from the floor. Some others might have some other tips on this. This is how I maintain our clubs track.

Apie
2010.01.25, 03:28 PM
Thanks for the response.

Do you think the 20 and 30 Kyosho tires are softer than PN 6 degrees? Are all #'s in tires on the same softness scale, such as 20 PNs would be the same softness as 20 kyosho's? Thanks.

I ordered those pinions, but I am going to stick with my opriginal shaft til it has a problem.

Does the whole servo casing/gears/pot thing have to come out? Are the wires very fragile like the Overlands? I had to resolder them because they fell right off the servo motor AND the pot while I was changing the chassis..I hope to not have the same problem.

jjay
2010.01.27, 02:02 AM
Does the whole servo casing/gears/pot thing have to come out? Are the wires very fragile like the Overlands? I had to resolder them because they fell right off the servo motor AND the pot while I was changing the chassis..I hope to not have the same problem.

If you're replacing the entire chassis, yea of course you'd need to swap everything over. You'd need to slide out the servo casing/gears/pot. To avoid putting the servo gears together again, just be careful and slide out the unit as one and pop it entirely into the new chassis.
The wires can be fragile as with any board, not just the awd. Just take it slow and keep checking if everything is clear and free as you slowly pop it out. I've removed my awd board a few times and haven't had to resolder.

As far as what actually broke on your chassis, is it just the little plastic cross bar that is screwed down and sits on top of the center shaft? http://www.atomicmods.com/Products/Kyosho-MD003-Mini-Z-AWD-Stock-Small-Parts-Set__12231.aspx
Very top right little piece is the cross bar.

Might also want to upgrade the plastic as it is very thin...
http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/shop2/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=161_131_146&products_id=2398

Rereading your first post, are you saying the screw hole is stripped also? If so, you would and probably should change the whole chassis. You could just get ...
http://www.atomicmods.com/Products/Kyosho-MD001-Mini-Z-AWD-Stock-Front-Main-Chassis-Set__12229.aspx
But I'd really recommend the blue/grey chassis again and I don't think they sell just that main chassis.

Or you could glue on a crossbar, but that could be all bad and would be a pain to clean/replace the center shaft in the future.

MantisMMA
2010.01.27, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the response.

Do you think the 20 and 30 Kyosho tires are softer than PN 6 degrees? Are all #'s in tires on the same softness scale, such as 20 PNs would be the same softness as 20 kyosho's? Thanks.


kyosho tires are soft in general and none of the numbers are even close to being the same!! PN 20 fts are really good for the AWD and teh 6 rears are good too.

Apie
2010.01.27, 10:33 AM
It is definitely the chassis, where the bearing sits, and where the mount bar screws in. I have ordered the chassis and the PN mount, and new pinions all around, they looked pretty used. From the exploded views the balance act of holding al the gears/pot/ thing together looks a lot easier then the Overland. I should get all parts in tonight so I'll post what I get done tomorrow.

I feel like I have too much grip in the front with the same #'s all around, so I'll grab some new wheels next order and try the 20/30 kyosho combo.

Action B
2010.01.27, 11:19 AM
Your probably going to want the softer tire in the rear, keep this in mind. so you'd want to run the 30/20 combo. Of course you can try it the other way but I've never gotten my car to run correctly with grippier tires in the front.

EMU
2010.01.27, 12:33 PM
20r/30f is very common, and can be used on most of the bodies for AWD. Are you using wide rear tires as well?

I have driven a car with 30N all around, and I managed to get the car to handle good (NSX). After I put 20NW on the rear, the car was much easier to drive, and made the car much more consistant. My fast lap was similar, however, my average lap was much better with the new configuration.

I then used 20W in the rear, and my speed increased more. I had more straight line acceleration than with the narrow in the rear, the car was not as edgy in and out of the corners either. This was the fastest setup for my AWD, with a looser front diff, to allow the car to turn in harder (I dont brake much with the AWD). With a tight front diff, the car would turn in slow, but hook a little more on exit...

Apie
2010.01.27, 03:10 PM
Yes, I have wides in the back. I have only been doing laps for a few days, It may of been the grippier front that is giving me inconsistent results. I have heard same width in all tires, is that a good idea with the mclaren body?

That was my issue, it had a hook in the exit of corners, over and over, about the only consistent thing with my driving..perhaps I should loosen it. After I rebuild tonight I am going to run at least 3 batts before I do any more changes. I don't have any other tires then the 6d all around, so I am just going to take notes 1st.

Action B
2010.01.27, 03:41 PM
Looking at that car I now realize you have the SAS suspension. The setup really isn't much like Christain Tabush's 2006 world cup car. I use that setup basically and its a stock rear.

I don't have much experience with that rear so I won't say too much else regarding your setup. I should have looked at the parts list instead of just assuming it really was like C. Tabush's car from 2006.

Apie
2010.01.27, 04:07 PM
I disagree, the SAS is far from stock.

So, how is it NOT like his '06?

http://www.atomicmods.com/Products/Mini-Z-AtomicBuilt-2006-Team-Edition-AWD-Mod__12967.aspx

Looks pretty darn similiar to me.

Action B
2010.01.27, 04:22 PM
I disagree, the SAS is far from stock.

So, how is it NOT like his '06?

http://www.atomicmods.com/Products/Mini-Z-AtomicBuilt-2006-Team-Edition-AWD-Mod__12967.aspx

Looks pretty darn similiar to me.

Oh, Sorry, I use his 08 setup. I don't know how I mixed that up.

Here it is. He uses a stock rear in this setup. By stock I just meant not SAS.

http://www.reflexracing.net/images/set-ups/Scan.jpg


Since leaving atomicmods his setups have changed considerably. The focus has shifted away from profit margins and marketing and to performance and practicality. Not that the old setups are bad, there are just cheaper ways of doing things that might even perhaps make the car faster.

Apie
2010.01.27, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the link, after a few weeks I may do a change...

Action B
2010.01.27, 04:31 PM
Thanks for the link, after a few weeks I may do a change...

Well he also has a newer setup if you want to try it. I don't think I'll be changing because I can't really afford changing my setup that drastically right now.

http://www.reflexracing.net/files/KOGP09.pdf

Apie
2010.01.27, 07:22 PM
Well he also has a newer setup if you want to try it. I don't think I'll be changing because I can't really afford changing my setup that drastically right now.

http://www.reflexracing.net/files/KOGP09.pdf

Wow, that looks like a very interesting setup that I may have to try. I may have to pick up that extra ASF chassis set now

EMU
2010.01.27, 07:30 PM
I have one SAS car (ran at 98 and currently 94mm), and one 96mm Reflex setup. Before i installed the SAS, I used the stock setup... SAS is good for low grip, and bumpy tracks. Stock is good for high grip, when you want to us 90/94mm. The 96mm setup is my strongest car, and most consistant.

I can give you some details about the SAS setup later if you want. There are a few tricks to it.

Action B
2010.01.27, 07:41 PM
I have one SAS car (ran at 98 and currently 94mm), and one 96mm Reflex setup. Before i installed the SAS, I used the stock setup... SAS is good for low grip, and bumpy tracks. Stock is good for high grip, when you want to us 90/94mm. The 96mm setup is my strongest car, and most consistant.

I can give you some details about the SAS setup later if you want. There are a few tricks to it.

Is the 96mm setup really "all that"?

I've been reluctant to changeover to it. I really don't feel like my 98mm is not agile enough.

Apie
2010.01.27, 09:06 PM
I have one SAS car (ran at 98 and currently 94mm), and one 96mm Reflex setup. Before i installed the SAS, I used the stock setup... SAS is good for low grip, and bumpy tracks. Stock is good for high grip, when you want to us 90/94mm. The 96mm setup is my strongest car, and most consistant.

I can give you some details about the SAS setup later if you want. There are a few tricks to it.

I'd love some more deets on the SAS, seems my setup may be a but outdated, but to me it is almost rc perfection..I just need to balance out the tire #'s, but I think I found the problem from what you guys are telling me. Hopefully I can rebuild it in an hour or 2 tonight.

Apie
2010.01.27, 10:55 PM
OK! just finished switching everything to a new chassis for the first time...about 1 1/2 hours. It is working smoothly, only thing is I must of switched a couple of screws because I have 2 phillips left and I should have 2 titaniunm hex's for the motor connection. Oh well, it still works fine!

Action B
2010.01.27, 11:41 PM
Well, apparently, you had an easier first time than I did.

EMU
2010.01.28, 12:18 AM
Is the 96mm setup really "all that"?

I've been reluctant to changeover to it. I really don't feel like my 98mm is not agile enough.
The 96mm has very good balance between agility and stability. 94mm doesnt rotate on throttle as much as 98mm, but has very good off throttle response. The 3Racing parts that are used in the Reflex 96mm setup work very well. It takes a little time to setup, since you have to glue the rings that hold the knuckle shafts... but once they break in, it is very smooth. I prefer the Kyosho plastic knuckles, since they dont travel as fast as the 3Racing alloy knuckles, and respond better to grease for dampening. The full alloy knuckles need to have the grease applied every run.

For high grip tracks I use the McLaren F1 LM body, and it works great. Low overhangs, no traction rolls... 30d radial fronts, with 20d radial rears. Green springs in the rear, white in the front (forget what spring set they are from). Low grip tracks I use the newest Subaru STI. It allows more body roll, but I change nothing on the setup. I use the ATM Stock BB motor.

With the SAS Pro setup, I have it set for 94mm, with the F50 body. It is a very aggressive body, which counter acts the additional rear grip that the SAS Pro gives. I use the alloy shocks, but the plastic tension nut (so it doesnt move due to vibration). I use the stock grease that came with the SAS, as well as the stock springs. I initially used softer yellow springs from a roll shock set for the MR01, but found that they were a little too soft for a mid-high grip track. The stock springs worked better for me than the orange. I use the same 30 radials (worn down to slicks) from the 96mm car (actually installed on the STI front wheels), with 20d radials in the rear. Front springs are purple, and front camber is 1.5d on both cars. SAS I use 2d rear, 96mm I use 1d rear. I use less camber on the rear of the SAS car to reduce grip a little. Kyosho diffs, with Reflex outdrives on the rear. Alloy swingshafts as well...

One thing to note, is that you have to glue the tires down, front and rear... and glue up the front sidewalls. This prevents traction rolling, and chatter in the corner.

I try to make both cars feel the same, that is my goal when I setup any of my cars, I want them all to be predictable when driving them near the limit. Needless to say, I am most comfortable with the 96mm car, but the 94mm SAS car is very close in performance, just not as consistant. There are more variables in the suspension settings, and I feel that more time needs to me taken at each track when setting it up. On a low grip track; I prefer the SAS. high grip; 96mm

Action B
2010.01.28, 12:39 AM
The 96mm has very good balance between agility and stability. 94mm doesnt rotate on throttle as much as 98mm, but has very good off throttle response. The 3Racing parts that are used in the Reflex 96mm setup work very well. It takes a little time to setup, since you have to glue the rings that hold the knuckle shafts... but once they break in, it is very smooth. I prefer the Kyosho plastic knuckles, since they dont travel as fast as the 3Racing alloy knuckles, and respond better to grease for dampening. The full alloy knuckles need to have the grease applied every run.

For high grip tracks I use the McLaren F1 LM body, and it works great. Low overhangs, no traction rolls... 30d radial fronts, with 20d radial rears. Green springs in the rear, white in the front (forget what spring set they are from). Low grip tracks I use the newest Subaru STI. It allows more body roll, but I change nothing on the setup. I use the ATM Stock BB motor.

With the SAS Pro setup, I have it set for 94mm, with the F50 body. It is a very aggressive body, which counter acts the additional rear grip that the SAS Pro gives. I use the alloy shocks, but the plastic tension nut (so it doesnt move due to vibration). I use the stock grease that came with the SAS, as well as the stock springs. I initially used softer yellow springs from a roll shock set for the MR01, but found that they were a little too soft for a mid-high grip track. The stock springs worked better for me than the orange. I use the same 30 radials (worn down to slicks) from the 96mm car (actually installed on the STI front wheels), with 20d radials in the rear. Front springs are purple, and front camber is 1.5d on both cars. SAS I use 2d rear, 96mm I use 1d rear. I use less camber on the rear of the SAS car to reduce grip a little. Kyosho diffs, with Reflex outdrives on the rear. Alloy swingshafts as well...

One thing to note, is that you have to glue the tires down, front and rear... and glue up the front sidewalls. This prevents traction rolling, and chatter in the corner.

I try to make both cars feel the same, that is my goal when I setup any of my cars, I want them all to be predictable when driving them near the limit. Needless to say, I am most comfortable with the 96mm car, but the 94mm SAS car is very close in performance, just not as consistant. There are more variables in the suspension settings, and I feel that more time needs to me taken at each track when setting it up. On a low grip track; I prefer the SAS. high grip; 96mm
Do you run your MA-010 in Hfay? My car is an HFay setup.

EMU
2010.01.28, 12:54 AM
I have never run HFAY... :(