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View Full Version : Lipo nothing compares


Z06 Tony
2010.02.03, 01:59 PM
I am a little confused. Why does everybody say lipos make the car too fast? For sanctioned events can you use lipos? They weigh almost half of what NI-Mh batts weigh. I use them in 2 of my Mini-Z's. I use 2S 400mAh and they have punch to the end. They do not dropoff like the other batts do. I have 1 set that is a linear dicharge lipo and the other set is just 2 400mAh 20c lipos wired for 2s.
My 1st love is helis and thats all we use is lipos. My Trex 600 runs on a 6 cell 22.2v 5000Ah 20c lippo. Here is a pic of my track.

MantisMMA
2010.02.03, 04:32 PM
you cannot drive a lipo powered car faster than a nimh car on a course track. on an oval or in a straight line is one thing but your lap times will be slower with a lipo setup. the cars can only corner with a certain amount of speed and when you exceed that speed you end up having to use the brakes to slow the car down and you will lose corner speed. on a tight track even a well prepared stock car will give a mod car fits!! usually there are only a few tenths of lap time differences between the two and most of that is because of the main straight but on the infield you cant tell the difference.

color01
2010.02.03, 04:37 PM
I don't know what motor you're using, but 2S LiPo as you're using, with one of our normal Stock motors (PN 70t) would have to be geared way, way down to be acceptable on your track. Mod motors are unusable with 2S LiPo.

1S2P or 1S4P LiPo is much easier to deal with, you can keep the same motors with a minimal loss of speed.

For now, sanctioned events do not allow LiPo as there is no standardized way to fit LiPos into a Mini-Z chassis. It also takes newbies out of sanctioned races since most Mini-Z's are configured stock to accept NiMH AAA's. While I'd like the change to happen (as you say, LiPo technology really is great performance-wise), until Mini-Z's can be easily configured to make the switch (i.e. Kyosho will have to do something about it), the rulebooks are not going to change.

Z06 Tony
2010.02.03, 06:27 PM
I don't know what motor you're using, but 2S LiPo as you're using, with one of our normal Stock motors (PN 70t) would have to be geared way, way down to be acceptable on your track. Mod motors are unusable with 2S LiPo.

1S2P or 1S4P LiPo is much easier to deal with, you can keep the same motors with a minimal loss of speed.

For now, sanctioned events do not allow LiPo as there is no standardized way to fit LiPos into a Mini-Z chassis. It also takes newbies out of sanctioned races since most Mini-Z's are configured stock to accept NiMH AAA's. While I'd like the change to happen (as you say, LiPo technology really is great performance-wise), until Mini-Z's can be easily configured to make the switch (i.e. Kyosho will have to do something about it), the rulebooks are not going to change.

Thank you for the answer. I had a feeling that lipos were not allowed for sanctioned races. I have the MR-02 chasis fitted with a 2s 400mAh lippo and the stock batt clips to hold the batt in place so it is safe. As far a a noob goes, anyone who races can solder 2 single lipos togeather and solder a Micro Deans connector to the batt clip. My car can run either AAA or lipos back to back with no modification. I get my MR-03 Sat so I will lipoize that since I will not be racing any sanctioned events. My heavier lipo pack weighs only like 24g. I wonder if it is politics. The current top batt companys do NOT want to see lipos used cus they will have to reinvent themselves cus just cus you can produce a nice Ni-mh batt does not mean you can produce a nice lipo. I have been flying helis for years a mentioned and cus of the lipo tech alot of nitro guys went to electric. When helis used Nicads it was like flying with a brick strapped to your heli.

color01
2010.02.04, 07:25 AM
There are many kids who race Mini-Z too, don't forget; the rules are put in place such that anyone who doesn't want/know how to solder, doesn't have to and can still be competitively. This is a whole different ballgame from other RC scales, which is why (sadly) I don't think LiPo will be making any headway until Kyosho releases a LiPo car. It's probably not politics.

jeremym
2010.02.04, 07:32 AM
There are many kids who race Mini-Z too, don't forget; the rules are put in place such that anyone who doesn't want/know how to solder, doesn't have to and can still be competitively. This is a whole different ballgame from other RC scales, which is why (sadly) I don't think LiPo will be making any headway until Kyosho releases a LiPo car. It's probably not politics.

Not just the soldering but the charging and making things go boom also.

doug01n
2010.02.04, 07:40 AM
The only "almost idiot proof" is the LifePo batteries, that doesn't explode, incinerate, or somthing like that, even with not recommender charging. But the weight is too hi yet.

Now they are making "square" cells, like lipo packs. I think it'll be very promissing for micro-cars like mini-z, as a 2 cell pack is 6.6V, and not 7.4 like Lipo. I already used a 9.9V 3 cell pack on my Micro-RS4, and it was awesome in power, but too mutch weight.

Z06 Tony
2010.02.04, 09:22 AM
There are many kids who race Mini-Z too, don't forget; the rules are put in place such that anyone who doesn't want/know how to solder, doesn't have to and can still be competitively. This is a whole different ballgame from other RC scales, which is why (sadly) I don't think LiPo will be making any headway until Kyosho releases a LiPo car. It's probably not politics.
I find it hard to believe that there more than a few percent of racers who do not know how to solder. Any kid that doesnt or parents will not let them I am sure has someone who helps with their car for racing. I feel the organizers who make up the rules are holding the hobby back this way. I am sure that not before too long(4-5 years or so)that almost all hobby grade RC stuff will be lipo and Ni-Mh will go to the wayside like Nicads.

R1WURKS
2010.02.10, 04:03 PM
we make lipo batteries for bigger scale cars & we would be more than happy to make lipo batteries for mini-z. I cannot speak for Kyosho on why they opted to stay away,but i can tell you that at this time NIMH is definitely easier & cost effective for most poeple.

CristianTabush
2010.02.10, 05:40 PM
As Color01 said, NiMH is not going anywhere until Kyosho releases a true LiPo or LiFe chassis and electronics package.

These electronics are still rated at 4.8v nominal and do not operate properly with the higher or lower voltages. Yes Lithium batteries are the future, but the future has not yet gotten to Mini-Z, and may never get here.

The Mini-Z is a Japanese Market phenomenon, and most of the time, especially in the stock classes, they race with Alkalines. :)

mini-z
2010.02.19, 01:13 PM
While I'd like the change to happen (as you say, LiPo technology really is great performance-wise), until Mini-Z's can be easily configured to make the switch (i.e. Kyosho will have to do something about it), the rulebooks are not going to change.

Oh, Kyosho are doing something about it:

Kyosho Route 246 R246 Mini-Z Li-Fe 3.3V 800mAH Battery - 2PCS (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=20338)

Special battery clips to better hold the cells, charging harness, and connectors are all coming too. :) :cool:

hrdrvr
2010.02.19, 01:17 PM
I saw some pictures of those on the forum here that came from one of the recent hobby shows. I was wondering when we start seeing the stuff pop up in stores :D

Cant wait to see what people use for charging them. Id like to try some out, but dont want to break the bank on charging equip :D

mini-z
2010.02.19, 01:28 PM
L, take a look at the Kyosho Route 246 R246 C-03 NiMH/NiCd/LiPo/LiFe/Pb Charger/Discharger (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=20100) - it'll take care of these cells and a whole lot more for under $50! :):cool:

doug01n
2010.02.19, 02:29 PM
Oh, Kyosho are doing something about it:

Kyosho Route 246 R246 Mini-Z Li-Fe 3.3V 800mAH Battery - 2PCS (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=20338)

Special battery clips to better hold the cells, charging harness, and connectors are all coming too. :) :cool:

Is this 2S 6.6V Life 800 mAh packs for Z's???

It doesn't seems like it will fit on the 02 or 03 battery places. Wonder a pic of a mounted set on a Z... :o

hrdrvr
2010.02.19, 03:03 PM
D, Thanks for the link. Ill have to check into that charger. It looks nice, and very affordable for what Id need it for.

doug, Browse through the recent hobby show pics. I want to say it was the recent Japanese show that had a pic of an MR03 with these batteries in it. They must be just shorter than AAAs, as they were mounted in the regular battery holders.

arch2b
2010.02.19, 04:07 PM
Is this 2S 6.6V Life 800 mAh packs for Z's???

It doesn't seems like it will fit on the 02 or 03 battery places. Wonder a pic of a mounted set on a Z... :o

these are made for the mr-015/mr-02/mr-03 battery tray and as mentioned, there are accessory parts to insert into the slots as well.

http://www.rc-r246.com/plannning/product/R246-1802/pick%20up%202.JPG

http://www.rc-r246.com/plannning/product/R246-1224/pick%20up%2011.JPG

http://www.rc-r246.com/plannning/product/R246-1324/pick%20up%201.JPG

http://www.rc-r246.com/plannning/product/R246-1802/pick%20up%204.JPG

http://www.rc-r246.com/plannning/product/R246-1326/pick%20up%202.JPG
images from rc planning r246

doug01n
2010.02.20, 06:33 PM
Thanks arch2b!

I'll try them as soon as possible. I think it will be perfect for our new track layout on the "super mod" races!

Z06 Tony
2010.03.05, 07:36 AM
I use 2 400mAh wired for 2s(7.4v)that fit perfect in the 02/03 chassis with the stock batt clips. They are like $8 each. You can buy a nice Turnigy charger for like $30 that will charge anything. Here is the link to the lipos. They are the OVRSK40020C

-> http://www.rchobbyhelicopter.com/store52/agora.cgi?product=RC_Batteries

I knew it was only a matter of time till Kyosho seen the light.
For the poster who said that the Mini Z only runs on 4.7v is kinda right. They do but most know they can take 7.4v safely and run fine on it.

imxlr8ed
2010.03.05, 06:18 PM
If you are near any MiniZ club... I strongly suggest you go race with them. (or you're just going to miss out on the fun)

I prefer the Nimh AAA cell choice for the Z... real nice to walk into any supermarket and get some fresh cells to take home and cycle the poop out of! :D

Lipos are great for all kinds of RC, and the Z will go some route eventually... but for now, it doesn't get much easier.

wildthing
2010.06.28, 11:40 AM
i use a lithium ion battery that have similar dimension with a AAA NiMh size...although I couldn't get a lithium ion with typical battery top.

i modified my wirings to 1S2P setup ... since the batteries are rated 360mAh... the parallel set will give me about 720mAh.

my mini Zs and Iwavers/Firelaps will run nearly 30mins before it drains near 3.0V - for recharging.

between NiMh, I prefer these lithium ions because it is easier and faster to charge.

I also learned that these batteries do not explode unlike their lipo counterparts.

I just wish that they will eventually be race legal.

Kamer
2010.06.30, 04:26 PM
I race the Li-Fe in my AWD since 3 months now and never would go back to AAA, Run time is lesser but the punch is just fun.

Unfortunately the service interval on the Car got shorter, since the mechanical load is heavy.

Kamer