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tudor_47
2010.02.17, 06:12 AM
Hi
I saw on Pnracing f******k that htere is a discussion on rules for 2010PNWC.

there are ideas to set a class "F1 MOD" to enable more speed in the F1 cars.

I wnated to ad to the discussion but I do not want a f******k account so here it goes:


F1 MOD will that like in the PAN MOD class enable chassies from different makers? homebrews??

JuniorWKR
2010.02.17, 10:01 AM
my impression was it was a discussion based on changing the motor. there where to many complaints about the F1 being to slow with the 70t so i thought they were going to think about changing the motor to speedy 07 handout or just go with open motor...

MantisMMA
2010.02.17, 11:26 AM
its open motor!!!

B-main
2010.02.17, 09:48 PM
stock awd should be speedy 07 or 05 for handout

Cherub1m
2010.02.18, 08:07 AM
I only see the PNWC 2009 rules. Any link to the PNWC 2010 rules?

hrdrvr
2010.02.18, 08:13 AM
Philip -> http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=375094&postcount=28

JuniorWKR
2010.02.18, 10:37 AM
by these changes is it going to be a one day or two day event?

hrdrvr
2010.02.18, 01:00 PM
Junior, its always been up to the host as to how many days the events are. I think idea behind shortening the race lengths and lessening the class load was to get it where more people could do it one day. We did ours last year as a two day event, as I didnt think we could do three rounds of 8 minute qualifiers with 10 monute mains. We can definitely do the new format in one day though!

Also, I like the fact that there are less classes this year. It will mean more competition within each one :D

JuniorWKR
2010.02.18, 01:25 PM
thats what i like to hear... cant wait for the racing to begin...

Cherub1m
2010.02.19, 01:22 AM
Philip -> http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=375094&postcount=28

Thank Landon.

bermbuster
2010.02.19, 05:27 AM
Junior, its always been up to the host as to how many days the events are. I think idea behind shortening the race lengths and lessening the class load was to get it where more people could do it one day. We did ours last year as a two day event, as I didnt think we could do three rounds of 8 minute qualifiers with 10 monute mains. We can definitely do the new format in one day though!

Also, I like the fact that there are less classes this year. It will mean more competition within each one :D

I remember a few years back (when the economy was better) the majority of traveling racers wanted the 2 day event to make the trip worthwhile....

Now even myself my time has become so valuable I like the 1 day event.....

MantisMMA
2010.02.19, 05:26 PM
when is the schedule gonna be released?

PNracing
2010.02.19, 08:38 PM
just posted the rules http://pnracing.us/pnwc2010/pnwc-2010-rules.htm

The schedule will be coming soon.

chad508
2010.02.19, 09:50 PM
no 03 allowed in stock. whats up with that

MantisMMA
2010.02.19, 11:19 PM
i hope thats a typo or somethin, im not going to buy another 02 just to race stock. someone please explain this one

PNracing
2010.02.19, 11:44 PM
no 03 allowed in stock. whats up with that

Thank you for your remind, I will added MR03 in stock too.

chad508
2010.02.20, 08:50 AM
thank you. i got scared for a minute.

Cherub1m
2010.02.20, 07:15 PM
Thank you for your remind, I will added MR03 in stock too.
What happened to AWD with Speedy 07 or Speedy AWD? if AWD is only in GT class mixed with 2WD the AWD class will die :( (the AWD class is already hurting)

lfisminiz
2010.02.20, 08:32 PM
IF the AWD gets some wins...........it wont die out then.;)

Cherub1m
2010.02.20, 09:34 PM
IF the AWD gets some wins...........it wont die out then.;)

Even if the AWD gets several wins it will only be one or two racers (maybe a few) that will be willing to spend the time to tune the AWD for that kind of race. Its to bad the AWD is being squeezed out.

Still think its best to have no motor limit for all classes and have only 4 classes: 2wd, AWD, F1 and PAN car. I guess its time to spend more time with anything 2wd :mad:

MantisMMA
2010.02.21, 07:39 AM
well since the pan MOD class is pretty much anything you want, an AWD pan car setup would more than likely be superior and im thinking that the LM cars will also be a force simply because of stability with the fast motors. the fastest lap and qualifying at the worlds was jacobs/CT's AWD NSX, that car with a pan body will be lethal!! this may actually increase AWD participation. i know that i f i decide to race mod it will be either an AWD pan or LM. especially since most of the regional races are temporary tracks and dont have alot of grip.

bermbuster
2010.02.21, 10:09 AM
well since the pan MOD class is pretty much anything you want, an AWD pan car setup would more than likely be superior and im thinking that the LM cars will also be a force simply because of stability with the fast motors. the fastest lap and qualifying at the worlds was jacobs/CT's AWD NSX, that car with a pan body will be lethal!! this may actually increase AWD participation. i know that i f i decide to race mod it will be either an AWD pan or LM. especially since most of the regional races are temporary tracks and dont have alot of grip.

How does the PN Pan car body work w an AWD??? Never tried it......

JuniorWKR
2010.02.21, 10:53 AM
that really sucks that there is no awd class.... whats up with that... not cool...

besides awd and 2wd together is gonna equal crashes and alot of them... they take differnt lines and when cars get close together in myopinion it gonna make them hard to run in a pack...

yasuji
2010.02.21, 11:25 AM
well since the pan MOD class is pretty much anything you want, an AWD pan car setup would more than likely be superior and im thinking that the LM cars will also be a force simply because of stability with the fast motors. the fastest lap and qualifying at the worlds was jacobs/CT's AWD NSX, that car with a pan body will be lethal!! this may actually increase AWD participation. i know that i f i decide to race mod it will be either an AWD pan or LM. especially since most of the regional races are temporary tracks and dont have alot of grip.

i believe pan mod is 2wd only for the pnwc
and mod gt is asc body only....
Chassis

l 2WD Stock Class - 90mm to 102mm Wheel Base
Kyosho MR01, MR015, MR02 and MR03 only. Kyosho colored chassis may be used.

l F1 Stock Class
Kyosho Mini-Z F1 Chassis only.

l GT Modified Class - 90mm to 102mm Wheel Base
Kyosho MR-01, MR-015, MR02, MR03 and MA010 only. Kyosho colored chassis may be used.

l Pan Car Modified Class - 94mm to 98mm Wheel Base
Any after market 2WD chassis allowed.

Body

l 2WD Stock and GT Modified Classes
Kyosho Mini-Z and TRP Scale body only, all windshield and window must be installed.

l F1 Stock Class, Kyosho Mini-Z F1 body, no additional parts add.

l Pan Car Class MUSt be use PN Racing Pan Car only, allow to cut the rear panel.

Cherub1m
2010.02.21, 11:33 AM
well since the pan MOD class is pretty much anything you want, an AWD pan car setup would more than likely be superior and im thinking that the LM cars will also be a force simply because of stability with the fast motors. the fastest lap and qualifying at the worlds was jacobs/CT's AWD NSX, that car with a pan body will be lethal!! this may actually increase AWD participation. i know that i f i decide to race mod it will be either an AWD pan or LM. especially since most of the regional races are temporary tracks and dont have alot of grip.

I agree a well set up AWD Pan car would be "lethal". However, you would need to hack the sides of the Pan body to fit the AWD. Also, the last few posting are confusing regarding the rules

First post said this:
PNWC2010 rules same as 2009 rules, just changed the following

1. Qualify change to 5 minutes
2. Finals change to 8 minutes
3. Classes:
2WD Stock
GT Modified (2WD or AWD)
F1 Modified
Pan Modified (Open chassis) one could argue open chassis means 2wd and AWD chassis.

However, the latest posted 2010 rules say 2wd for Pan. :rolleyes: another blow to the AWD

Latest posted rules for 2010:
Pan Car Modified Class - 94mm to 98mm Wheel Base
Any after market 2WD chassis allowed.

In short 2wd, 2wd, 2wd and more 2wd:mad:

JuniorWKR
2010.02.21, 11:38 AM
can a awd only class be ran if that is what the reginal host requests?

lfisminiz
2010.02.21, 11:49 AM
Junior, i would guess an AWD class could be added to the event. Just would be more seperate from the PN classes. Kind of like an added special class.

JuniorWKR
2010.02.21, 12:02 PM
im guessing it would be like the mini class last year

PNracing
2010.02.21, 12:51 PM
I agree a well set up AWD Pan car would be "lethal". However, you would need to hack the sides of the Pan body to fit the AWD. Also, the last few posting are confusing regarding the rules

First post said this:
PNWC2010 rules same as 2009 rules, just changed the following

1. Qualify change to 5 minutes
2. Finals change to 8 minutes
3. Classes:
2WD Stock
GT Modified (2WD or AWD)
F1 Modified
Pan Modified (Open chassis) one could argue open chassis means 2wd and AWD chassis.

However, the latest posted 2010 rules say 2wd for Pan. :rolleyes: another blow to the AWD

Latest posted rules for 2010:
Pan Car Modified Class - 94mm to 98mm Wheel Base
Any after market 2WD chassis allowed.

In short 2wd, 2wd, 2wd and more 2wd:mad:

Sorry make you confuse in Pan Car Chassis rule, now we uploaded the version 10.02, make it more clear.

Chassis

l 2WD Stock Class - 90mm to 102mm Wheel Base
Kyosho MR01, MR015, MR02 and MR03 only. Kyosho colored chassis may be used.

l F1 Stock Class
Kyosho Mini-Z F1 Chassis only.

l GT Modified Class - 90mm to 102mm Wheel Base
Kyosho MR-01, MR-015, MR02, MR03 and MA010 only. Kyosho colored chassis may be used.

l Pan Car Modified Class - 94mm to 98mm Wheel Base
Kyosho MR01, MR015, MR02 and MR03. Any after market 2WD chassis allowed.

Cherub1m
2010.02.21, 04:44 PM
Sorry make you confuse in Pan Car Chassis rule, now we uploaded the version 10.02, make it more clear.

Chassis

l 2WD Stock Class - 90mm to 102mm Wheel Base
Kyosho MR01, MR015, MR02 and MR03 only. Kyosho colored chassis may be used.

l F1 Stock Class
Kyosho Mini-Z F1 Chassis only.

l GT Modified Class - 90mm to 102mm Wheel Base
Kyosho MR-01, MR-015, MR02, MR03 and MA010 only. Kyosho colored chassis may be used.

l Pan Car Modified Class - 94mm to 98mm Wheel Base
Kyosho MR01, MR015, MR02 and MR03. Any after market 2WD chassis allowed.

Hi Philip N

Actually the last 2010 rule link you posted was sufficient, I was just contrasting it with your previous post that said, open chassis for Pan Car, and expressing my concern about the lack of AWD representation.

Thank
Philip V

MantisMMA
2010.02.22, 11:00 PM
when is the schedule going to be released? i need to start making plans ASAP!!

MantisMMA
2010.03.20, 10:36 AM
its almost april and still no schedule?

Davey G
2010.03.22, 08:46 PM
July 10-11 San Jose, CA Fast Pace Racing
July 30th - Aug1st SaddleBrook NJ Majs Hobby Shop

Above are the only official ones in place. The Netzone regional is sometime in MAY but no date has been confirmed yet.

chad508
2010.03.22, 09:11 PM
i thought forums rules did not allow events to be sooner than every 2 weeks?

yasuji
2010.03.22, 10:31 PM
fyi
i didnt know untill this past weekend..the race times have been changed back to 8 min quals and 10 min mains
untill a week ago it was supposed to be 5 min quals and 8 min mains

mleemor60
2010.03.23, 06:43 AM
i thought forums rules did not allow events to be sooner than every 2 weeks?

The event at Maj's is on the calendar. The other is not as it was not applied for.

Mike Keely
2010.03.23, 09:34 PM
What are these two dates for?

July 30th - Sept 1st SaddleBrook NJ Majs Hobby Shop

lfisminiz
2010.03.23, 09:39 PM
Mike, i would say the 30th - open for practice.
31st-1st - the race.:)

Davey G
2010.03.23, 09:46 PM
What are these two dates for?

July 30th - Sept 1st SaddleBrook NJ Majs Hobby Shop

That would be because I am an IDIOT! :) It now reads July 30th - Aug 1st....sorry for the confusion :rolleyes:

hrdrvr
2010.03.25, 09:20 AM
Its official! You can add Myrtle Beach to the list of official locations, and put us down for June 12th at The PLex in Myrtle Beach.

http://theplexmyrtlebeach.com/

I will have an offical thread in the PN events section soon with hotel, flight, and other information. In the mean time, if youve got any questions feel free to drop me a PM :D

mleemor60
2010.03.25, 11:28 AM
It is on the calendar and can now be posted to the events forum.

Davey G
2010.03.25, 12:13 PM
Its official! You can add Myrtle Beach to the list of official locations, and put us down for June 12th at The PLex in Myrtle Beach.

http://theplexmyrtlebeach.com/

I will have an offical thread in the PN events section soon with hotel, flight, and other information. In the mean time, if youve got any questions feel free to drop me a PM :D

Congrats Landon and crew!!!!

hrdrvr
2010.03.25, 12:40 PM
Thanks Mike, thats what I was waiting for :D

Thank you too Dave! We are very proud that Phillip wants to hold another event for us southerners :D The location we found should make it a very cool event, and account for some spectators, and a lot of probable racers!

lfisminiz
2010.03.25, 02:54 PM
Great news for you guys...Landon.:)

Scrapper
2010.03.28, 01:03 PM
i might try to make it to the one in myrtle beach if i could get some info


only thing is i would need a ride to and from the track and a hotel or place to stay nearby


senior gift for high school one could call it

hrdrvr
2010.03.29, 08:27 AM
Stu, Once I post the event thread there will be all kinds of hotel and travel information.

If you make it down here, I will personally make sure youve got transportation everywhere you need to get!

PM me if youve got any questions at all!

ocean rodeo
2010.03.29, 10:21 AM
Wrong thread. Sorry.

hpgod
2010.03.29, 10:18 PM
weight 2wd 175 g

Ok I weighted my race ready mr03 with a ferrai430 body,not lightened and it comes in at 166grams Where should/how you add 9 grams of weight without affecting handling?

hrdrvr
2010.03.30, 07:10 AM
You wont add 9 grams without effecting handling, but the idea os to add it where it benefits handling, or atleast minimilizes changes to balance. Most of the guys who ran 03s in our recent event used lead tape on the bottom of the chassis. Some used other forms of weight, like lead chunks, coins, etc. Atleast one person had some problems with the lead tape when it was directly under the servo, so I would steer clear of that if possible.

egonzalez
2010.03.30, 09:11 AM
weight 2wd 175 g

Ok I weighted my race ready mr03 with a ferrai430 body,not lightened and it comes in at 166grams Where should/how you add 9 grams of weight without affecting handling?

I also have the same problem... I think the weight limit should change to 165g... I should not have to add heavier parts or lead tape to compensate for the fact is MR03 is lighter chassis.

JuniorWKR
2010.03.30, 09:37 AM
i have been having the same problem as of late also... whenever i go to a race the mr03 is just way to light... and i dont do anything to try and lighten it either... i even run fully painted bodies... i believe the rule needs to be changed as the weight restriction needs to be current with the new chassis being used...

chad508
2010.03.30, 09:56 AM
i agree but pn sells alot of mr02 parts and the majority of people still run 02s. maybe as the 03 becomes more used the weight rule may lower. also as more alum part are made for the 03 the weight is bound to rise

PNracing
2010.03.30, 09:56 AM
The rules is protect all chassis, MR02 impossible to make 165g, so 175g is fair all chassis, if we change the rule to 165g, this is not fair for MR02 chassis racer.

Same as 1/10 Li-Po battery rules, you also need add a lot weight to Li-Po chassis.

JuniorWKR
2010.03.30, 10:05 AM
i agree but the 02 at 175 is better than an 03 at 175... its way to hard to add the weight and still have the car handle the same... 2 races already this year and i along with others have had this problem... its impossible to asdd 10grams of weight to the chassis and still have the same driving characteristics when without the added weight... i think there needs to be some sort of comprimise like maybe making it 170... at least meet in the middle...

JuniorWKR
2010.03.30, 10:14 AM
i truely dont believe the setup has to do with weight but what works... my 02 with aarm setup always felt the best at 175-177...

the natural weight og the 03 is between 165-168...

IMO opinion the 02 too light and the 03 too heavy doesnt work for anyone...

i do however feel that having to add at least 10grams of weight to a miniz chassis is a little ridiculous...

i would hope for the rule to change and everyone just run their cars with the best setup that they can...

QuantumRC
2010.03.30, 10:30 AM
We tried running the 03 at 175g and honestly, not much of a difference. It is more of a setup issue.

10th scale cars are running lipos with weight added still even IFMAR change it to 1450g instead of 1500g.

In the end, it is still the event organizer to decide on the rules and the racers to decide if they want to join the race.

pedrocamp
2010.03.30, 10:47 AM
I would say getting the body and chassis as light as possible and ballasting up to weight gives you a great and effective tuning tool. The 03 has an advantage in that you have more ballast to move around. You can fit small pieces of lead or other heavy metal with servo tape, aly tape or bolt it on, such as to the two holes on the back crossbar on the PN pod. I was involved in Indycar and am now in NASCAR and we carry and move around hundreds of pounds of ballast, especially in NASCAR where it's common to carry 400 lbs of ballast. In Indycar many of the balance changes were made by moving ballast front to rear or vice versa, sometimes as little as a 0.5% shift. Weight can be your friend..

egonzalez
2010.03.30, 10:54 AM
We tried running the 03 at 175g and honestly, not much of a difference. It is more of a setup issue.

10th scale cars are running lipos with weight added still even IFMAR change it to 1450g instead of 1500g.

In the end, it is still the event organizer to decide on the rules and the racers to decide if they want to join the race.

I agree with what you’re saying…. The difference is, that with 1/10 scale, you have a lot of room to balance your car... Miniz, you are limited to the lead tape at bottom of the chassis to keep the center of gravity low. These cars run low enough to the ground as is without adding lead tape.

hpgod
2010.03.30, 11:14 AM
exactly miniz does not have much room to add properly. center lowest cg.
Anyone want to make some steel tbar mounts (lowers the cg)
My other idea is brass shims for the on body mounts(~ at CG)
lead strip bolted to the tbar holes on the pn mootor mounts. mounting to the rear of the motor mount will have the effect of running a rm pod(bad)
9 grams of lead is over 1 square 10x10mm(1/4oz) lead square In tape you would have to cover the entire chassis.

for 9 grams you would need ~ 3g up front and 6grams in back for equal weight balance.

JuniorWKR
2010.03.30, 11:23 AM
thats insane....

10 grams is almost a third of the average 94mm autoscale body... imagine strapping that to your setup and let me know how ur car is gonna handle...

chad508
2010.03.30, 11:26 AM
you can add alot under the board in the chassis. pretty low and centered.

bermbuster
2010.03.30, 11:37 AM
you can add alot under the board in the chassis. pretty low and centered.

does the board need the air space so it does not overheat?
adding lead in an area that has electrics you better insulate the lead
or it will be short city.....

hrdrvr
2010.03.30, 11:59 AM
^ Ive seen people do it with the MR02s. I dont see why it would be that much different, but some of the 03 boards have been a bit more sensetive.

You guys have to remember that by upping the weight limit, it also allows a wider range of bodies to be used on the MR03. You arent penalized as much as you used to be if you want to run one of the larger bodies, and you dont have to chop it into pieces to get it on even keel with the smaller bodies.

You can find some conversation about this from last year, and the year before, as I tried to debate it was too high back then. In the end, its Phillips decision, and you have to remember that he wants a fully hopped up car to be competetive too. It is a maufactureres cup, and it wouldnt be lucrative for him if he made a fully alloyed PN car have a huge disadvatage at a PN event. I dont particularly agree with that, but it is what is is, and like Q RC said, choose not to participate if its that big of deal. Thats the only way you are going to get the rule changed anyway.

chad508
2010.03.30, 12:08 PM
i wouldnt so much as use lead as maybe jb weld. it would atleast level itself out

JuniorWKR
2010.03.30, 12:12 PM
i just feel that the weight limit is outdated... if there is a newer lighter faster product on the market that most racers are racing then i think the rules should be adjusted....

we all spend alot of time and money to make our cars the best that they can be and race them twice a week.... its unfair to go into one of the biggest races aof the year and have to be unhappy with something that you have worked so hard on...

i wouldnt agruee this point if there was trick that people were doing to get the 03 down that low... then i could see the weight limit staying the same... but when its the chassis natural weight to be that low then i think its time for change...

what are we to do... tell kyosho not to make such a light chassis anymore cause it doesnt fit the rules... or do we follow there lead in promoting and racing a newer better product to aid in keeping the hobby progressing...

QuantumRC
2010.03.30, 12:18 PM
There is actually alot of place where you can add weight. This brings about being creative. Agreed that 10th scale provides more space for weights adding but that does not mean a Z could not do it.

We added weights on the battery clips and took away some internal plastics plus some on the back of the motor mount and also some on the body clip. We try to keep as low as possible. Having some experience in the 10th and 8th scale gave us some ideas.

Fact is we did not have a big disadvantage over the 02s as we thought it would be. In fact we found that with the weight thing, it opens up a whole new world of set-up possibilities.

Think of it this way, the few main body shells we normally use for races, (not including the aerodynamics features of it) the 350Zs, SC430, Enzo, 430GT, F360.. they all have different weight distribution and which why some racers prefer them over another on different track layouts.

I am not saying that all rules are entirely right. There will definately be some which will be disapprove of, and nobody can please everybody.

Slubben
2010.03.30, 01:19 PM
It seems to me that the people concerned with the 10 gram or so weight advantage the MR03 has over the 02 are splitting hairs. A few years back when the 2.4 boards were released they were intergrated into most racing formats without any issues and im my opinion the lack of glitching the 2.4 boards offered far out weighs the benefits of a 10 gram reduction in weight. I believe that a most perhaps a compromised weight limit should be reached because like others have said on this thread it is not the easiet thing to do to add weight to a mini-z. That placement of weight will impact handling and if you take into consideration collisions and weights, regardless of where they are added, possibly falling off a racer could have an adverse reaction during their race. Also we all want to keep this sport growing and from what I have seen at my local hobby store most new racers opt to purchase the MR03 and if we want the sport to keep growing we need to get the newbie racers involved in larger scale events and I really don't think having someone be discouraged by the handling of their car with 10 extra grams during a race is the way to do it. I think some of us forget that like with everything in life there is a learning curve and it takes a while for a new racer to learn how to set up a car let alone how added weight will impact their set up.

JuniorWKR
2010.03.30, 01:40 PM
couldnt agree more... the 2.4 board had no restrictions and was the greatest improvement to miniz yet...

dont hold back the 03 please...

EMU
2010.03.30, 02:20 PM
Just be happy that the weight limit isnt 180g still... I think that 175g is more than fair. It levels out the field. I have an MR03 that is 166g, but for these events, I may want to run something a little heftier. Start working on the car now with the ballast, in time, you may actually like its performance better with the ballast.

A lot of my MR02's were around 175g when the weight limit was 180g. Nothing special was done, they were just light bodies with minimal hop ups. To go any lighter than 175g, is basically not having a weight limit at all. To make the weight limit lower than 175g would mean that the MR02 would be severely at a disadvantage. 175g is a little light for an MR02, but a little heavy for an MR03. I feel that it is a good compromise weight limit for both chassis.

The MR03 at the same weight as the MR02 track ready has capabilities of using almost any body where the MR02 is restricted to the lighter ones. The MR02 should remain at a competetive weight. Lighter than 175g would mean having to do some serious lightening to the chassis/body to make it competetive. Just because the MR03 is lighter than the MR02, should it mean that the weight restriction be lowered to that of the lighter chassis.

Having the ability to ballast where you want on the chassis to balance it out is very powerful. It is not holding back the MR03, the fact that the chassis is lighter, and has the ability to ballast already makes it a stronger chassis than the MR02 at 175g. If you make the weight limit lighter, then people with MR02 either have to upgrade to MR03, or if it is out of their budget, get out of the hobby.

There are many new things popping up in this hobby all the time, if race coordinators redesign the rules every time something new comes out, the hobby would shrink, and only the people that had an expendable income, and could afford to keep up with all the new stuff would be in the hobby. There are MANY people that use older tech, and are competetive with it. Since the rules change less than the products, it ensures that they can continue in the hobby with the same equipment for a few seasons. What isnt much cost for one person, could make or break the hobby for another.

JuniorWKR
2010.03.30, 02:35 PM
i think your reasoning is wrong emu... Majs hobby shop sells alot of mr03's to newbies that are now racing with us... and you know how hard the learnign curve is for these guys with figuring out how to setup there cars as they evolve... how is maj to tell one of these newbies i know you spent alot of money with me on this car but if you dont add 10 grams to it you cant race... its BS!...

if this is the case then why does pn sell lightweight shafts... why does reflex sell a 100 dollar qtec diff... why wouod anyone make a light weight part... they do it to make the hobby better and faster...

so here i have 3 - million dollar mr03's that i cant race... and its not because of something i did... its the natural weight of the car... and im even using the atomic metal dps plate..

im not going to invest my time and energy into figuring out were to place weight and destroy my chassis by glueing and sticking things to it...

its an outdated weight restriction... all i suggested was the weight limit be dropped to 170.... its a 5 gram swing for everyone and noone would have to change anything... and all chassis would still be competitve... i wouldnt mind figuring out how to add 5 grams to my chassis but not 10...

and no offense to anyone but people not spending money will kill the hobby also... cause thats what keep the tracks open that we race at.. all the new, exciting, better parts... thats what keeps it going... its the reason that pn and atomic and reflex keep coming out with parts... so it doesnt plateau as a hobby...

hrdrvr
2010.03.30, 02:58 PM
I see your point Junior and argued the same ones a few years ago. The truth of the matter is that the lead tape probably cost you less than any other upgrade you put on the car. Adding $.25 worth of lead shouldnt break you out of the hobby. If its that important to Maj's customers he should carry the lead tape, and tell them from the start to tune their cars with the 175g weight limit in mind. Then there isnt a second learning curve. You tune the car to the event you are participating in, and let it ride.

FWIW, our last event ran a 180g weight limit and guys added as much as 12-15g to their light MR03s. No one had any adverse effects from it with the exception of some minor complaining.

Another FWIW, there are weight limits in nearly every form of auto racing. Im sure there are plenty of people out there racing who could run their car effctively under those limits, and there are others who fight to have the limits changed. The fact of the matter is, Phillip has decided what the limit is at his events, and now we as racers have the choice to participate or not. Its the same choice the NASCAR/FIA/ALMS/etc. teams make.......

EMU
2010.03.30, 03:20 PM
First, I want to point out that this is a PNWC thread, and not a MHS thread. The rules here are for the PNWC regional race. So, if Maj has to tell the new people that they have to meet a weight requirement whichever 2wd chassis they run, and what body they choose... it is for the regional race, not club racing. But as Landon said, it is better to prepare them from the start, then to spring it on them last minute.

New people into the hobby will almost all be getting the MR03, but many racers that I know and have been racing with for years cannot afford to get a fleet of MR03s, some cant even afford one.

There are many people that their budget just barely meets the ability to get to the track, race and pay for tires or small parts. I have been there, and am very tight on cash right now. The rule in debate here keeps the ability to still have a competetive car without being forced to upgrade.

The weight on the differential is a moving part, and unsprung weight, and has a much greater effect on the acceleration/deceleration than the same proportion of weight on the chassis. If there is 3g lighter on the differential, or 3g lighter on the chassis, you would barely notice it on the chassis, but it would be a big difference on the diff. So comparing a lightweight differential part is not in the same ballpark.

People spend money in this hobby, but most do not do it in large allotments. A $20-30 part on a race night is easy... but a $200 car, with a $30 mount, $40 diff, etc, is out of many peoples leagues. Especially considering that just going racing is usually a $40-50 deal (gas, tolls, tires, race enrollment). This hobby isnt cheap, but even if you arent spending big bucks, you are still spending, and benefitting the hobby. There are many people that drop out of the hobby because their equipment is no longer competetive, and upgrading to ASF made it a big deal. There are still many people that dont use ASF, because they cant afford it. Making the MR03 have a clear cut weight advantage will basically tell the people that use MR02s and cant afford to upgrade to MR03 not to race anymore because they wont be competetive.

As I said before, 175g was given to us last year, before that it was 180g. 175g is light enough, yes, there are cars lighter, but there are cars considerably heavier. No race prepped MR02 can meet 170g without cutting a lot of weight. 175g is even hard to meet with an MR02.

How can the 175g rule be outdated if it is only a year old. I argued hard for that rule, but a 170g rule I feel is far too light.

Junior, I understand what you are saying... and this viewpoint is not necessarily my own, but is a reasoning for the rule to stay where it is. I personally would love a 170g rule, I love small light cars... but I think that the 175g rule will work best for everyone.

pedrocamp
2010.03.30, 04:23 PM
Well said Emu. I know it is not easy to find places on a Z to fit ballast but it can be done. Our club runs a 180 limit and I have lead stashed all over. As I add aly bits I take a little more off if the part is worth the ballast loss. The ability to move ballast is a powerful tuning tool as I and others have previously mentioned. I work in a NASCAR engineering office and we spend large amounts of money reducing the weight of components on a car that must weigh 3500 lbs. A Cup car could weigh 2500 lbs or less if they would let us. We want to put the weight where we need it. Switching from 94-96-98 is a large shift in weight distribution. If you have a significant amount of ballast you can reset the weight distribution independently, within the limits of available ballast. If you can run a light body and transfer the weight low on the chassis, you have an advantage over the car with a heavy body and no ballast even though both weigh the same. I too think the 175 limit is a good compromise for the 02 and 03 chassis.

egonzalez
2010.03.30, 04:26 PM
Just be happy that the weight limit isnt 180g still... I think that 175g is more than fair. It levels out the field.

EMU, I see your point, but how is this weight reduction request different from when they decided to go from 180 to 175… This was driven by the advent of the MR02, new lighter parts, and the ability to achieve this weight by the masses on a particular chassis… We know that MR01 is also heavier then the MR02 but, this does not seem to be an issue anymore. Technology is what should dictate the weight change.. What would be a valid reason for a weight reduction????

EMU
2010.03.30, 05:02 PM
I dont remember if there was a PN cup when there was no MR02. I believe that it started with the MR02, and the weight limit was designed for the MR02.

If the MR02 were discontinued... The MR02 is still the primary 2wd chassis, despite what you may see at your track. As the MR03 continues to grow, and supply and pricing comes down, then I think we may see a reduction in weight limit.

The change from 180 to 175 took a long time to arrive. I had to add weight at every event that mandated the 180g rule long before it arrived. My cars were not lightened, but still considerably lighter than 180g. If you know how to use the ballast, it is not a bad thing.

170g would sway things too far to the MR03 in terms of competetiveness, since it is VERY hard to get an MR02 to that weight without sacrificing handling. It would make the racing faster, but would leave MR02 drivers feeling that the limit is too light. If the weight limit were lowered, the MR02 should get a faster stock motor :rolleyes:

If you dont like the weight limit, run Pan Car :) There is no limit in that class...

I think the F1 weight limit is a little high, almost all of my F1 cars are under 200g, and I have to add weight at events. It is good that I am underweight, so I can add weight where the car needs it the most...

I also want to point out, that Atomic's series last year was 180g weight limit. I havent heard anything about them changing it this year...

egonzalez
2010.03.30, 06:16 PM
[QUOTE=EMU;380082]

170g would sway things too far to the MR03 in terms of competetiveness, since it is VERY hard to get an MR02 to that weight without sacrificing handling. It would make the racing faster, but would leave MR02 drivers feeling that the limit is too light. If the weight limit were lowered, the MR02 should get a faster stock motor :rolleyes:

QUOTE]


My point in a different way....Per the rules, the heavier MR01 is still allowed and there are no requirements for a faster stock motor.

EMU
2010.03.30, 06:22 PM
Just remember, last year, the MR03 was not permitted in the PNWC stock classes. So, now it is permitted, but the weight remains the same. Whatever PN decides, is the way it is going to be. What we think about it, has little effect, unless all the racers decide not to attend the races.

bermbuster
2010.03.30, 08:13 PM
Im trying to put things in perspective here....
i was curious as to how much is 10 grams.
a Quarter weighs about 5.5 grams....
To make a MR-03 legal you have to add some serious weight.
Percentage of total weight is 5.5%
On a 3500 lb nascar thats 192.5 lbs of added weight.....
How much lead tape makes 10 grams???
Dont have any to weigh.....

If PN was to make a lighter weight legal would that make the MR-015
more competitive???

QuantumRC
2010.03.30, 08:18 PM
Come on guys, ultimately we are in it to have fun. That is what the hobby is about. All this tuning and getting the car to run under specs are good fun and we can learn alot from it. As mentioned it opens up a new perpective on setting up cars..

As much as I would like my 03 to be as it is, it's been a good learning process on how ballast affects the handling.

JuniorWKR
2010.04.02, 08:53 AM
ok...

i worked on my car for a couple of hours last night and added the weight that would be required to make weight for the pn race... right now it weighs in at 176g with new tires and transponder...

i will be racing it for the first time tonite at this weight...

i few steps i did to compensate for the addition od weight was i went up one step harder on the front spring and went one step thicker on the dps grease...

i have high hopes of this setup working tonite... kinda cause i need it too...

yasuji
2010.04.02, 11:07 AM
fyi....my cars....
MR02 PANCAR=189g
MR03 PANCAR=180g
MR03 GT MOD=178g...as raced @ rcx with mclaren f1 gtr long tail
all weight is post race

JuniorWKR
2010.04.02, 11:09 AM
you run the top shock and dual shock rear though right?

yasuji
2010.04.02, 11:28 AM
you run the top shock and dual shock rear though right?

yes i do! ..and my body is race lightened to the limit of he rules as well;) and im running 98mm wb

bermbuster
2010.04.02, 11:36 AM
fyi....my cars....
MR02 PANCAR=189g
MR03 PANCAR=180g
MR03 GT MOD=178g...as raced @ rcx with mclaren f1 gtr long tail
all weight is post race

The GT is that w or wo the painters tape.....:D
the alloy front end adds some weight in the right places.....

JuniorWKR
2010.04.02, 11:46 AM
yes i do! ..and my body is race lightened to the limit of he rules as well;) and im running 98mm wb

so ur cars are actually pretty light if you ran a standard dps setup like i do with no top shock...

NICE....

aluminum front end with tri shock rear end... way to get the power down...

yasuji
2010.04.02, 11:48 AM
The GT is that w or wo the painters tape.....:D
the alloy front end adds some weight in the right places.....

also keep in mind that a mod motor is also a little heavier :D

PNracing
2010.04.04, 04:28 AM
Remind all regional race organizers
the race time back to
8 mins Qualify and 10 mins Main!
Updated rules (http://www.pnracing.us/pnwc2010/pnwc-2010-rules.htm)