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hrdrvr
2010.03.11, 09:17 AM
So here we are again with another event brought to you from the confines of CFIs race room! MBMZR has teamed up with Reflex Racing to bring you another great endurance event!

This will be run in a similar format to our last enduro, with a hot lap qualifying session, and a 4 hour race shortly after.


Tentative Schedule:
Friday - Track open all day for practice, until 8pm (or possibly later).
Saturday:
8:00 - Doors open, track open for practice.
9:00 - Registration opens.
11:00 - Registration ends, track closes for divers meeting.
11:30 - Qualifying begins.
11:45 - Group Picture, track closed for pre-race maintenance.
12:00 - Race begins.
4:15 - Trophy ceremony.


Team List:
AMP Racing - LM
AtlMiniRC - GT
MBMZR - LM
MWG - Looking for another driver :D


If any one is looking to come down and race, but doesnt have a team, just let me know. Ill try my best to facilitate every one who wants to participate.

I will follow up with some hotel information for any one coming from out of town!

For those who missed the last event, check out the thread on it. My race re-cap is posted on page 9. There are a few pics posted on page 10.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31060

Also, there are some tiny modifications to the rules form what CT posted for the RCX event. Please look over them, and address any questions about them here, or through PM.

hpgod
2010.03.11, 09:26 AM
I am 100% in. Hank said he would do it 1 month ago but I have not heard from him in a few weeks. If Hank backs out I will need a second driver.
I just want to race. Our club last had enough racers for submit HFAY times was NOV.

Ferrari 430 painted white body car:)

Art

hrdrvr
2010.03.11, 09:29 AM
Art, Ill put you down for GT class. Get in touch with Hank and let me know if you need help finding a teammate. Ill drop him a line too :D

hpgod
2010.03.11, 09:31 AM
Landon
What are yall using for light kits and MR03s? I have never see one so do not know where to start on this.

hrdrvr
2010.03.11, 09:59 AM
I just acquired one of the Kyosho light sets (MZW31), and it is slim enough that I fit it into a VDS body with no problems at all. Since CT has decided to leave the VDS and pan cars out at RCX, I followed suite here. The light kit fits into my C9 very easily too. I am yet to test what it does to battery life though. If I dont like what I find, Ill be trying to rig something up myself.

Before the last enduro, when we speculated about running a night stage, I put together a little kit from parts at a local electronics store. It was just four LEDs attached to a GiroZ harness plug. The other side of the plug was wired to a lithium disc (basically a large watch battery) type battery. When plugged in the light lit up like christams :D Those LEDs were far brighter than the ones from the Kyosho kit, but again I didnt test far enough to know how long they would last or anything.

For other options Ive seen quite a few different light sets on eBay that are advertised for MiniZ, as well as a few older threads on here where people have made their own. Anything will be legal, just make sure you secure it well, and have a dependable power source for it!

mleemor60
2010.03.11, 10:05 AM
So. If I read it correctly there will be no pan car bodies in LM. Would there be a need then for 100mm wheelbase option? In GT brushes may be removed for comm cleaning but it doesn't say which brushes are to be re-installed. Please clarify. It also is ambiguous as to how and where lights are to be installed. Are they to be installed so realism is maintained or can the be just attached to the outside of the body "Baja" style.

Will the rain tires be as last time or will there be provisions for LM front tires to be used in conjunction with the 40 or 50 rear ASC tires.

hrdrvr
2010.03.11, 10:31 AM
You are correct (and smiling Im sure) in the assumption that there are no pan cars this time. The 100mm option is if some one wants to ru nntheir LM with RR plates and shorten it a little. It should mean for minimal dremeling, which shouldnt alter the appearance of the bodies too far. It also allows the use of the 94/98 pods to give a little more handling options.

I will calrify the brush situation on the GT motors. FWIW, Brushes must be replaced with the same brushes PN suplpies with them from the factory (PN: 10CR50). The Kyosho brushes canot be removed without removing the endbell from the can, so the point is null for those motors.

Lights will have to be installed within the body, and in a realistic form. You must mount the lights where the headlights should be, and the taillights where they should be. If you are mounting more lights than the body calls for naturally (adding 'fog' lights, or addition rear lights), the installation must be in a typical location, and done to look as naturally as possible. A sense of realism is what we are after, and I think it can be achieved easily enough. If any one has any questions about how their lights are mounted, feel free to shoot me a picture of them, and I will let you know the race directors decision about them ahead of time.

I will have both types of rain tires available for the fronts (teams choice). The rears will be the standard ASC tires that we used last time. I dont know if you noticed, but we are turning the tires in after the rain stage, so if a second stage is called, you may not end up with the same set each time.

On anything in question of the rules, it would be wise to submit your questions now, so that you can make arrangements to change before race day where neccesary.

chad508
2010.03.11, 11:53 AM
only thing i did not see was a min. run time per driver. i saw a max of 1 hour per stint but not a min. per driver for the whole race.

hrdrvr
2010.03.11, 12:23 PM
Good call Chad.

FWIW, each driver should drive atleast 45 minutes. Any over that is fine, as long as every team member makes their 45 minutes.

hpgod
2010.03.11, 01:08 PM
I just got an email from Hank and He is still in for the race.

hrdrvr
2010.03.11, 03:58 PM
Awesome! Itll be good to see you guys again. I dont think I could help you out with a driver as strong as Hank :D Y'all should fit right in with us ad the HS teams thatll be down.

hpgod
2010.03.11, 05:53 PM
GT for us because were both just as fast or faster with a 70T in the car.
Heck he lapped the mod field last year with a 70t in.

hrdrvr
2010.03.12, 07:38 AM
^ Yeah, I remembr that race well. I fought like hell to stay on the lead lap with him, and just couldnt. I finished second.......

mleemor60
2010.03.12, 07:53 AM
The consensus within our group would like to make it a six hour race. How about it?

chad508
2010.03.12, 09:17 AM
i had rather run 2 man teams and keep it at 4 hours. not sure id like to do 6 hours with 2 people

hpgod
2010.03.12, 09:29 AM
I am game for 6 hours with a 2 man team. move up the start time if you do so we get out before dinner time still.

20-30 minute stints means only 8 stints per driver and still only need 3 packs per driver+ a rain scenario pack with old cells.

CristianTabush
2010.03.12, 12:13 PM
So here we are again with another event brought to you from the confines of CFIs race room! MBMZR has teamed up with Reflex Racing to bring you another great endurance event!

This will be run in a similar format to our last enduro, with a hot lap qualifying session, and a 4 hour race shortly after.


Tentative Schedule:
Friday - Track open all day for practice, until 8pm (or possibly later).
Saturday:
8:00 - Doors open, track open for practice.
9:00 - Registration opens.
11:00 - Registration ends, track closes for divers meeting.
11:30 - Qualifying begins.
11:45 - Group Picture, track closed for pre-race maintenance.
12:00 - Race begins.
4:15 - Trophy ceremony.


Team List:
AMP Racing - LM
AtlMiniRC - GT
MBMZR - LM
MWG - Looking for another driver :D


If any one is looking to come down and race, but doesnt have a team, just let me know. Ill try my best to facilitate every one who wants to participate.

I will follow up with some hotel information for any one coming from out of town!

For those who missed the last event, check out the thread on it. My race re-cap is posted on page 9. There are a few pics posted on page 10.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31060

Also, there are some tiny modifications to the rules form what CT posted for the RCX event. Please look over them, and address any questions about them here, or through PM.

I am not in the country, so I can't talk on the phone. THE RULES CANNOT BE CHANGED AT ALL LANDON. This is final as it is the Reflex Racing Series. Motor rules are free. The motors can be torn down at the end of the race for full inspection, if cheating is supected, but please don't modify rules without consulting with us. You plan the event, but the rules are already in place for a reason, part of it is to promote our products and services as well as tuning philosophy.

For motors, stock motors can be opened and trued, if you care, but the armatures will be teched before and after the race. This means that a NEW 70 Turn Motor must be purchased and opened in front of the technical/race director where the armature will be marked. Anything else done to the motor is totally free. At the end of the event, these motors will be opened once again, and teched to make sure the same armature and can are used.

hrdrvr
2010.03.12, 01:35 PM
CT, FWIW I tried to contact you. I didnt know you were out of the country, but now I know why you havent returned my calls/message. I tried not to call you too many times, but I know Ive made several attempts over the last ten days or so. After not hearing from you, and reading the first statement of your RCX posted rules multiple times, I went ahead with what you see linked in my first post here.

There will be several events held across different locations in North America, organized by the individual clubs, based on the guidelines stated in this document.

I think everything I posted follows these "guidelines", and was modified to help inspire competition, and also to make it easier on the track officials to judge.

Personally I dont think its fair to let people open stock motor cans. In our area the purpose of the stock class is to keep the playing field equal. Once you open that class up to comm truing and open can mods you sway the advantage back to the guy with the biggest pocket book. Also, look at us a club, and not a hobby shop who is hosting an event. Where does my race director get the 70t motors for the possible people running in stock class? How many motors does he need to have? What happens to those motors if he doesnt sell them to teams? Who helps him eat the cost? FWIW, this was the main section I wanted to discuss with you before posting, but again we never had contact.

The qualifying differences are pretty out there too. Basically I really liked how it worked out at our "trial" event in 2009. We ran an enduro with this style of qualifying at our club, and it was successful, and every one enjoyed it. I thought it would be cool to do it again. I didnt know you were going to be so close minded though, or I would have reconsidered this change. Again all that it would have taken to avoid this would have been a phone call or some email exchanges.

The rest of the "changes" I made were more for clarification purposes. You left some things open to interpretation, and the guys who race with us will exploit those interpretations to gain advantage. To keep it fair and clear, I just added some text to your already written rules....at least the way I perceived them to be written.


Please, now that you understand the position I am in with making the changes I did, please let me know if there is going to be any leniency. If I have to follow your rules to the "T", I will make the necessary changes.

chad508
2010.03.12, 02:14 PM
i was just looking over the rules and have yet to see what has been changed are altered. the rules are so vag one can interprete them any way. i saw nothing in the rules about having to buy a 70 turn motor at the event and it be opened and marked. plus ct stated above that after the arm is marked we are free to do what ever to the motor, does this include changing can to a bb can neo magnits. i see to many unanswered questions.

hrdrvr
2010.03.12, 02:22 PM
Chad, I printed both sets of rules out to see exactly how much was changed before making the last post. I highlighted a copy so it would be easy for me to reference. IF its necessary I can quote both sets of rules together so it can be here for every one to see. Naturally, its only up to CT, and he has already pointed out a couple, so Im sure he read them pretty thoroughly.

For your information though, I will list the sections that have discrepancies:
B.1.a)
B.2(LM).b)
C.5.a)
C.5.b)
D.1.

Again with the exception of B.1.a), and D.1., they were just clarifications (added text) of how I read the rules.

chad508
2010.03.12, 02:34 PM
ill wait to read the hard copy tonight when we race. but are the rcx rules different from the other rules and thats were the problem is.

hrdrvr
2010.03.15, 09:53 AM
Im a little preturbed that this turned out like it did. I would have much rather settled it out of the public eye.

I do want to clear some things up though, for those following the situation. I didnt make up the rules I posted on my own. The format was something that you (Cristian) and I discussed many times for many hours over the phone. When I decided I would host one of these races it was based on this qualifying format. We even had a trial race last year in October with this format, and these rules. The 2 minute qualifying heats was something that was new to me, and I was never informed it was going to be the "official reflex way". Again, I assumed I could run the race the way it was agreed upon being run the last time we talked about it. I would have been happy to run the race in the desired format, but I would have had to know about it before hand.

As far as the motor rule, you dont specify anywhere that this is what you want to be done. The post above was the first I heard about it being an open motor rule. Had I known the tech that would go along with the event, I would have reconsidering being a host, and I would have encouraged you to change that. I would be happy to change the format, but Im not sure I can conform to the motor standards at this time, and dont want to ask you to let me be an exception to the rules of your series.

I would like to suggest that you re-write the rules clear enough that they cover everything that would come up (so people in my position dont take the liberty to clarify them), and also maybe make a memo or something to send out to probable hosts so they know what you expect from them.

My feelings were a little hurt (and still are) that you took this to the public eye instead of resolving it with me privately. Ill get over it though, and will have forgotten in a few weeks time. I hope this doesnt put any hard feelings between us, but with only a few weeks to go, I had to make a decision of what to do for the event.

My decision is to run it under the rules I am confortable running it under. This means it will be an MBMZR event, and not a Reflex Racing Series event. This means that anynone who participates will not be tallied towards the final standings and qualifying for the final event at the end of the year. Maybe we can work somethng out, and I can host a future RRES event.

For the time being, here is a link to the new thread for the MBMZR enduro that we will still host on April 10th. Please if you have posted interest in this thread, and would like to still particpate, post accordingly in the new thread. All future questions or concerns should be addressed there as well.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=378551#post378551

hrdrvr
2010.03.17, 10:56 AM
I just wanted to update this a bit. CT is still out of the country, but I did get to talk with Joe from Reflex a good bit last night.

He further explained to me the reasoning behind the rules they made (specifically the open motor rule), and I understand them much more clearly now. I also totally understand the importance of running all of the races under the same set of rules (he didnt have to explain me anything for me to get that one :D).

I got to explain my point of view, and the reasoning behind my decisions as well. We both agreed that neither party acted out of line, it was just a miscommunication between CT and myself.

For any one who is interested there are no hard feelings between us about any of the happenings of this event (posting of wrong rules, lack of discrepancy in approaching the mishap, changing the event to non-RR, etc...).

Joe and I see eye to eye on the whole thing, and its all good! Im sure CT will understand better once Joe or I get to explain my side to him. Also FWIW, Reflex has been good to MBMZR on many levels (help with parts support, sponsorship of events, etc..), and I hope to continue building on the strong relationship weve created over the past few years.

CristianTabush
2010.03.17, 12:59 PM
It is a shame that you have decided to change this Landon. When you agree upon organizing the event, you agree upon the stipulated rules. The rules are in place for a reason, you have free reign upon the script and the entry fee, but the rules are to remain consistent for ALL THE EVENTS.

If someone hosts the PN Racing Regionals, they don't change the motor rules, or they are in violation of the championship, rendering it null. This is much the same way in this case.

Back when you hosted the original enduro in October, we discussed the qualifying format and since it was not the official Reflex Race we agreed that your open track format was ok, but for the official Reflex event, this was not going to be the case, and we were going to stick to the original rules written in the guidelines. Again, this was not open to be modified simply because "you don't like what is written".

For the motor rules, saying that you need a deep pocket book to compete is nonsense. If just 1 person has a lathe, he can cut any of the 4-6 armatures that the teams entering the GT class may have. If no one has one available, then no one would have a trued motor. Changing brushes for silver compounds is not expensive either, costing a mere 3-4 dollars a pair, same as the original brushes that come with the motors. Changing the cans??? Come on, this is obvious that it can't be done, and if it needs to be written in as a rule, it can be, but any race official can easily see a motor can that has been swapped out for a bearing or neo-magnet can. Since it is a Reflex event, we are providing the motors to the organization at cost, for them to sell at $10.00/pc.

To me, it sounds more like MBMZR is not wanting to abide to a format simply because "they don't like it" vs, that there may be a genuine, valid concern about the functionality of the event.

As for it being resolved behind closed doors, it makes no difference to me. Making it public, leaves a record of discussion on issues on the racing series, which can later be used to resolve further conflicts.

I am saddened that you have changed this, as I had every intention in attending this event instead of the KO GP in San Jose the same weekend. I guess I will switch my ticket over to the other coast of the country.

hrdrvr
2010.03.17, 05:09 PM
I thought Joe and I had killed this horse. If you insist on beating it some more, Ill get my stick back out.


It is a shame that you have decided to change this Landon. When you agree upon organizing the event, you agree upon the stipulated rules. The rules are in place for a reason, you have free reign upon the script and the entry fee, but the rules are to remain consistent for ALL THE EVENTS.

..... Im not sure I can conform to the motor standards at this time, and dont want to ask you to let me be an exception to the rules of your series.

I also totally understand the importance of running all of the races under the same set of rules (he didnt have to explain me anything for me to get that one :D).

I totally understand. Its just that when I agreed to host an event, it wasnt clear to me what was expected (even though I thought it was). Some of your posts over the last few days have really enlightened me to what you want from a host, but it took it until now for me to find some of these things out.


If someone hosts the PN Racing Regionals, they don't change the motor rules, or they are in violation of the championship, rendering it null. This is much the same way in this case.

As stated above I totally agree. I hosted a PN regional event last year. I didnt like the weight limits that were set. I voiced my opinion about it on a thread a long time ago, but still upheld the rules as they were written, as it was my duty as the host. The main difference is that the PNWC has VERY clearly written and concise rules where clarification is not necessary. Until your post about open motors, I thought I was just clarifying everything but the qualifying.

I did take qualifying into my own hands after not hearing back from you. I already waited too long to post this thread (not your fault, but another important variable in my decision), as the event is less than a month away. I couldnt wait any longer and went with what I thought would be suitable. It was my mistake and Im fine with the consequences. If you had contacted me privately, or atleast responded to my original response of your post sooner, we could have easily resolved that issue. I would have been happy to swap back to your format. The fact that you made that post, then didnt follow up until today is what forced my hand to make a decision. The event was/is less than a month away, and I waited two extra days before going ahead and moving the event away from RR, so I could concrete the rules the way I had promoted the event (to me it was only fair to the participants). I am cool with the ramifications of this decision as well.


Back when you hosted the original enduro in October, we discussed the qualifying format and since it was not the official Reflex Race we agreed that your open track format was ok, but for the official Reflex event, this was not going to be the case, and we were going to stick to the original rules written in the guidelines. Again, this was not open to be modified simply because "you don't like what is written".

I understand the trial enduro was just that, a trial. As much as you and I talked about this series I thought I was pretty clear on what was going down. I overlooked the fact that you changed (or originally had something different) qualifying from the open track session we discussed and ran in October. Its totally my bad, and shouldnt have been done. Again a simple phone call or email exchange (or even an explanation here) over the weekend would have fixed that mistake. However the discussion came too late (no more contact until today), and I made decisions based on the information I had at the time I felt it necessary to make a decision.


Again, this was not open to be modified simply because "you don't like what is written".

I totally resent this quote! Where did it come from? Did I type it somewhere? Did you hear me say it? Im open minded enough to support something I dont totally agree with, and would have been fine supporting the reflex endurance series the way you have the rules written.


For the motor rules, saying that you need a deep pocket book to compete is nonsense. If just 1 person has a lathe, he can cut any of the 4-6 armatures that the teams entering the GT class may have. If no one has one available, then no one would have a trued motor. Changing brushes for silver compounds is not expensive either, costing a mere 3-4 dollars a pair, same as the original brushes that come with the motors. Changing the cans??? Come on, this is obvious that it can't be done, and if it needs to be written in as a rule, it can be, but any race official can easily see a motor can that has been swapped out for a bearing or neo-magnet can. Since it is a Reflex event, we are providing the motors to the organization at cost, for them to sell at $10.00/pc.

Why is that one person going to cut the comms for the guys who he is racing against? Its like saying youve got the best batteries, youve got to share them with your competitors. You know how it goes, once a guy gets a part that makes speed, then every one else has to do it to keep up. You of all people should know this, as you guys are constantly trying to push the bar up above the next guy.

How is it obvious that changing the can or mags in the motor is not allowed? It doesnt say it anywhere. If these rules are going to be the final say, they need to cover all the questions so race directors, or hosts, dont have to make the decisions for you. Obviously I made the wrong interpretation of the rule. Of course it would be easy to say, hey thats a different can, but how can I DQ a guy for running it when there is no documentation that it is prohibited.

This is the first Ive heard about you supplying the motors. Its something else that wasnt communicated.


To me, it sounds more like MBMZR is not wanting to abide to a format simply because "they don't like it" vs, that there may be a genuine, valid concern about the functionality of the event.

If you continue to feel this way our relationship is going south fast.

The fact of the matter is, Im not tech savvy enough to get into teching the internals of motors. Im not motor-experienced enough to confidently take apart and reassemble every stock motor for the event. Im not good enough to say "Im 100% positive I didnt mess that motor up for you during pre-race tech". I am confident enough to say, "Hey this motor is ridiculously fast, and looks like the end bell has been removed". Again I would have liked to talk to you about this before hand, and you probably could have helped me over the phone enough to have my confidence in doing it your way. We didnt talk about it before hand though, as friday was the first I even heard of it.


As for it being resolved behind closed doors, it makes no difference to me. Making it public, leaves a record of discussion on issues on the racing series, which can later be used to resolve further conflicts.

Keeping it private would have given us more time to resolve the issue. The fact that it came out in the open let the public know that there was a discrepancy with the rules, and they might not be final. With less than month to go, I had to concrete something. Without any contact from you over the weekend, I did what I thought was necessary. If you fault me for that, so be it.


I am saddened that you have changed this, as I had every intention in attending this event instead of the KO GP in San Jose the same weekend. I guess I will switch my ticket over to the other coast of the country.

I am saddened about this too. This is the first Ive heard from you about the possibility of you coming out to the event. Had I known you were coming (and bringing motors) all this would have been a null point. Just something else that wasnt communicated.....


I guess I will switch my ticket over to the other coast of the country.

As for this little tid-bit, what is it supposed to mean? It seems like a
3rd grade attempt at hurting my feelings.

2EZ
2010.03.18, 11:44 AM
Here at MBMZR we are very reasonable and want only to make our hobby fun and get others involved. We make every effort to include as many racers as possible and make our experience one to enjoy. We enjoy and promote competition but we also make every effort to insure that any one racing with us has a fair and reasonable chance to win and an understanding of the rules. We can and will work to make MBMZR events the best possible experience for everyone. We have proven that we are willing to give our efforts, time and for some our money to do just that. MBMZR’s are proud of the events held here in the past. We in Myrtle Beach owe gratitude to Landon and his Dad for their support, without them Mini-z racing would not exist here as it does today. Personal contact, communication and a positive attitude would have gone a long way to avoid this situation. Christian If you guys at Reflex "really" want the same then talking to Landon and showing “…..concern about the functionality of the event” would have include a few moments of your time. Answering with a sarcastic tone and making attempts to belittle the efforts of MBMZR serves little purpose in the advancement of our hobby. When you come to some ones house even if you do bring the ball you should show some respect. Your decision not to race with us is a disappointment as I enjoyed when you attended our previous race here at MBMZR. Christian to say "To me, it sounds more like MBMZR is not wanting to abide to a format simply because "they don't like it" vs, that there may be a genuine, valid concern about the functionality of the event.” you should know this is not true and that to say so was unfair and uncalled for. I, a member of the MBMZR will be glad to accept your apology and renew our efforts together to make Mini-z racing better for us all. I look forward to your reply.
Sincerely
Tannie Ellison

Daddy Rabbit
2010.03.18, 04:31 PM
T Man,
I could not have said it better myself.
And thanks for the kind words.
I hope that CT and LT can put this behind them and go forward for the good of our sport in a partner type manner.

ruf
2010.03.22, 04:13 PM
Having spoken with Landon, I'm sure that this will all work out for the best. Cristian is still out of the country, and things are really easy to misinterpret over the internet. A lot of it has to do with a misunderstanding about the intent of the motor rules and the time pressure of the upcoming race. I can't speak for Cristian, but all in all I think we are all on the same page. I look forward to racing with you guys sometime soon! :)

CristianTabush
2010.03.26, 04:21 PM
Now that I am caught up, I can actually respond to all your concerns,

Well, to Tannie and MBMZR, I am sorry, I used your club's name incorrectly. The problem was between Landon and myself. I should have never brought MBMZR into the conversation. Again TOTALLY SORRY!!!

Now to deal with you Landon, the reason why I lashed out on my second post was not without reason, and let me expound why. By pulling out from the event, a few weeks before it happens, just because you don't agree with a couple of rules, is entirely an over-reaction and I honestly felt betrayed, especially because I feel like I have supported your club all the way, and you know I consider you an actual extension of the Reflex Family and Team, I have told you this many times.

Let's run through a series of events that led to this:

The rules have been posted since October 12th, 2009. I would imagine if there are any concerns and/or questions about them, they could be brought up way before the event is about to happen. If anything, if you are organizing something you should be fairly familiar with the rules and guidelines. Yes, I am at fault with not contacting you over the phone, but by the time I saw his changes to the structure, I was no longer in the country. I by no means meant to offend Landon by posting on an open forum about an event. It is not a reprimand, or meant to offend, just to clarify several items that were changed on the event from the original structure.

On my second post, I may have lashed out at you Landon, but you have to understand, that by you reacting in the way that you did after my first post, which was not offensive (I copied it below, so you can read it again) you were being WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too sensitive and were overreacting.

"I am not in the country, so I can't talk on the phone. THE RULES CANNOT BE CHANGED AT ALL LANDON. This is final as it is the Reflex Racing Series. Motor rules are free. The motors can be torn down at the end of the race for full inspection, if cheating is supected, but please don't modify rules without consulting with us. You plan the event, but the rules are already in place for a reason, part of it is to promote our products and services as well as tuning philosophy.

For motors, stock motors can be opened and trued, if you care, but the armatures will be teched before and after the race. This means that a NEW 70 Turn Motor must be purchased and opened in front of the technical/race director where the armature will be marked. Anything else done to the motor is totally free. At the end of the event, these motors will be opened once again, and teched to make sure the same armature and can are used."

At this point, I was just clarifying your concerns and solving any questions you may have had about the specifics. Any other questions could have followed and would have been answered as soon as I could get to them. Again, I was not near a computer most of the time, but you could have just waited on hearing back from me before making a final decision to change the event and/ or rules.

As for the motor rules, my bad on the post about RCX. That was entirely my mistake, and I really meant to say you COULD open the can. This event never even happened, due to all the glitching problems, so... At least the precedent can be set as to what needs to be clarified. So again, for this not being clear, I apologize. The reason why the qualifying structure had been changed at RCX slightly was because there was a limited amount of time we had the track available for, hence the reason why we had staggered starts on the cars, otherwise there would not have been time to complete them and run for 5 Hours. At every other event, the qualifying stays the same. This is an example of a rule being tweaked to accommodate a concern about the completion of the event on time, a GENUINE one as well. If this was not changed, the race could not be completed.

Arguing about the motors being or not being cut by someone is kind of pointless... I would have cut everyone's motors, maybe the next guy would not have, but I think in general, most Mini-Z racers are really collaborative and helpful and 19 out of 20 guys would help out with something like truing an armature.

I still don't see why you get offended by talking about this publicly, the reason why I post things in the open is to leave a trail of words, that way there is precedent over a discussion, this way things can be referred to in future events that may cause or raise concern. By articulating over a forum we have easy access to thousands of words that are archived neatly for our future words. Emails and PM get lost or deleted along the way. To this, I can add that we are adults, we should be able to discuss things openly without being afraid of what may come from it or what others may think of what we are saying. People have differences of opinion every day, and they will continue having them until the end of time.

Also, my second post, in which I was a bit aggressive, you had already dropped our event, without having seen or heard anything back from me, all you did was talk to yourself on this thread about different things that, even though genuine concerns, I could have answered as soon as I got to them. The event is still 2 weeks away, which is still plenty of time to still resolve any doubts, questions or genuine concerns, including the rule discrepancies from RCX and the Official Charter on the Official Thread.

My First Post Was on 3/12, you had one post shortly after the same day. Before I was able to respond anything, you went batty on me on 3/15, taking it to the level that you CANCELLED OUR event and decided to call it your own, just because you did not agree/understand a motor rule and "Did not feel comfortable" doing qualifying in a different way. All this, without event having heard back from me. I in the meantime was on a remote lake in the middle of the Guatemalan Highlands, without ANY internet access.

On 3/17 when I finally have internet access I have emails from one of my team drivers asking me what is going on with the event, saying that it no longer is happening and if I am still attending. Naturally I come over hear and see all this and I was a bit upset. This is when I referred to MBMZR instead of directly to you, in my defense though, you are the face of MBMZR and this led me to direct my words incorrectly to them. The least you could have done was to wait for me to give you a response before you change the event.

I still don't see how you changing the rules without Reflex authorizing the changes is You not agreeing with them, vs. them not working or offering an unfair advantage to any particular individual. If something is not clear, it is not an excuse to change something, most people would wait for an explanation before making a decision as such.

To sum it up, I again apologize to MBMZR for bringing them in to a conversation which they did not belong. I was wrong in doing this.

To Landon, I can't really say that I apologize for hurting your feelings, If I did, I would not mean it and I think that it would not be honest. After reading and writing this long post and thinking about this, I don't think I transgressed against you in any way. I agree that I was wrong on bringing in MBMZR into this and for that, I am truly sorry, I have stated it many times. I do apologize for the misunderstanding with the RCX Rules. I will strive to make the rules and guidelines more homogeneous in the future as well as provide clear reasoning as to what is changing where. But, for the events that transpired after my first post, before I was able to respond to your concerns, I have no explanation for you going (forgive my choice of words) APE S**T and dropping the series. I had told you since October that I had every intention in attending the first event at your place. I told you that I would be back and that i really enjoyed running at your track. Remember Landon that we are not PN or Atomic in which we can afford to fly all over the place to events, so using our limited resources to attend events is a huge sacrifice and should show the commitment that we have towards our customers, who we consider FRIENDS. Many times, due to the success we have had racing in the past, people forget that we ARE the LITTLE, SMALL, PRIVATEER Company that is run by 1 person out of his apartment. I still consider you a GREAT friend, but I am very saddened and offended that you never even let me respond to your concerns before you hung me out to dry and dropped OUR event without having a discussion with me once I was back in the country. That reaction, I still don't understand...





__________________

bermbuster
2010.03.27, 08:40 AM
We are grown men racing toy cars for fun.....
I can understand where Landon is coming from with his interpetation of the motor rule. As a promoter he has to ensure his racers feel like they have a chance of winning. Look at the entries the race wasnt turning teams away.....
I understand motor tuning and what it can do for a mini z. The best tuned motors will last and perform.....not every racer wants to do this or understands what has to be done. By allowing it you are giving an advantage to some and your telling the racers who dont or cant or who may botch a motor while trying you need some race prepped motors or your going to lose.
Using a sealed box stock motor does level the playing field. Something that is not the philosphy of Reflex Racing....So Reflex should support there philosphy and provide (sell) the motors for the event.
The solution to this could have been simple.....
Reflex could have supplied the motors and to boot held a motor tuning clinic at the race to expand racers knowledge on this craft....
This would have attracted more racers and it would create a new class of racing not to mention boosting the image of Reflex Racing....

arch2b
2010.03.27, 10:04 AM
excellent suggestion, i've never tweaked a motor for racing. never knew how and never wanted to bug someone at a race to do it for me. we all have a lot to do at these events and i never felt comfortable going up to the top tier guys asking them to show me or tweak my motor for me. i'm sure they would have done so if asked as i've met many of them and they are generally great people to meet, but none the less the average racer just isn't going to do that.

that being said, anyone can see the difference in performance of a tweaked motor. it's the one walking away from you on the straights and blowing past you in the turns. i've seen it for years and it does create an advantage that the average racer just isn't going to have, be able to do, or just not comfortable asking others to do it for them. i have nearly a decade of being the little guy experience at these events.

i would love to sit through a motor tuning clinic, i would love to see this done at events where motor tweaking is permissible.:) excellent suggestion.

ocean rodeo
2010.03.27, 10:52 AM
A youtube demonstration of motor tuning would be fantastic!.

blt456
2010.03.27, 12:23 PM
There are lots of different things you can do to the motors but I could make a simple video involving:
-Proper brush break-in
-Cleaning
-Building
-Maintenance

If this would help CT and others out please let me know since I have nothing better to do tonight..

bermbuster
2010.03.27, 02:50 PM
There are lots of different things you can do to the motors but I could make a simple video involving:
-Proper brush break-in
-Cleaning
-Building
-Maintenance

If this would help CT and others out please let me know since I have nothing better to do tonight..

While Videos are great there 4 ways we learn how to do things
Reading
watching (video)
demonstration
actually doing it....
Just think if you could have a motor clinic how much can be learned....:cool:

arch2b
2010.03.27, 02:54 PM
i agree. video's are helpful, written descriptions are good for reference but a full on clinic would be awsome!

blt456
2010.03.27, 02:57 PM
I have decided that I will give videos on the following...
Video 1: Maintenance and motor assembly
Video 2: Breaking in a stock motor (bushing)
Video 3: Breaking in a mod motor (bearing)

ocean rodeo
2010.03.27, 03:25 PM
While Videos are great there 4 ways we learn how to do things
Reading
watching (video)
demonstration
actually doing it....
Just think if you could have a motor clinic how much can be learned....:cool:

They're some people that need the visual to make more sense. I prefer watching RC "how to videos" to TV shows.

CristianTabush
2010.03.27, 04:20 PM
Luke if you want to post videos up, it is fine with me... I think it would be great for the community. I can even post links up on our site if you wish.

hrdrvr
2010.03.28, 04:23 AM
I didnt pull out of the event because I "don't agree with a couple of rules". I pulled out because there was an uncertainty about the rules of the event, with only a few weeks left to go. Im not in an area like the north east, or CA where there are lots of racers to pull from. I have to have everything clearly in place in time for people to make plans and then travel arrangemnts to come here. It was unclear to me at how quickly the issue was going to be resolved with you out of the country, and unable to communicate.

Like I said before, if it wasnt public that the posted rules were in question, I could have given more time to work it out. Had I found out you were coming (could help out with tech), and were bringing motors, there wouldnt have been any concern about wether I could pull off your rules properly. Yes, I stated that I didnt agree with the motor rule, but that was just me voicing my opinion, not saying it was out of the question for me to follow it. The timing of everything is my main reason for not wanting this dispute in the public eye. This weekend, now that you finally have time for dialogue (not the series of monologues we shared before), wouldnt have been soon enough to ensure participation in the event. I dont feel the need to further explain this, but I dont know why its so unclear.

Up until this point, I have felt like an extension of the Reflex family, and Ive been proud to have such an alliance with you. I think Ive supported Reflex whole heartidly on many fronts, including trying my best to help you get a racing series off of the ground. I know I made a few mistakes with the event. I waited too long to post an official thread. I made some changes to qualifying without talking it over with you, and I misjudged the motor rule. I felt like Ive been in touch with this racing series and the AMLMS since the original conception. I can remember us trying to come up with something that would set a Reflex series apart from all the others out there. I remember talking for hours about different endurance scenarios and how they could play out and make MiniZ racing more interesting than ever. The fact is I felt too in touch with the direction of the series, and had a false sense of where it was going, and how the regional events would play out. We havent had as much contact lately, and I guess I was unaware of the change of direction and structure.

I understand why you reacted the way you did. I know your personality pretty well, and know you have strong feelings about everything you do in this hobby. I hope at some point you can put yourself in my shoes and accept why I did what I did. I hope you understand the events didnt transpire out of spite, or any attempt to undermine you, Reflex, or your series. I hope you know me well enough to know that I would have run the event any way you wanted me to had timing work out a bit different, and that I am all for the progression of the hobby, and will support any one who has the desire to grow it.

The fact is the things that happened, happened. It is up to us how we move forward from this point, and how we handle the future will determine how the relationship grows, or falls. If we can accept each others actions, regardless of agreement or apologies, and move forward in a positive direction, I dont see any reason for not getting past this and re-establishing the support levels weve had.

raffaelli
2010.03.30, 08:14 PM
Was in Myrtle Beach this week on a vacation. Had planned on stopping by. Kinda glad I didnt after reading this.

blt456
2010.03.30, 11:32 PM
Cristian..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chQe4As4Uqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcG_BiRdIcU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwaUBfobU58

pick
2010.03.31, 06:33 AM
Was in Myrtle Beach this week on a vacation. Had planned on stopping by. Kinda glad I didnt after reading this.

I think the thing that puzzles me the most about this statement is that since 2007, raffaelli has only made 2 posts. One of which is shedding a negative light on a local Mini-Z club (MBMZR) :confused:. That doesn't seem appropriate to me in any way :(. I personally know both Cristian and Landon. While they have had their differences here recently, I don't think that either of them would support the bashing of Reflex Racing or MBMZR. They are both good guys who I consider friends. While I may have my own opinions, I would never say anything in an open forum that would deter someone from buying from Reflex or racing at MBMZR. In a fraction of the time that it takes to type a post, you could easily pick up the phone and give either of them a call showing your support or disapproval privately :).

raffaelli, I can tell you this..........while on vacation at Myrtle Beach, I routinely break away from the wife and kids to race with the MBMZR crew :eek:. This is usually one of the highlights of my vacation :cool:. The MBMZR guys are always welcoming and willing to help with any tuning needs I may have. The level of comradery and competitiveness that I've experienced at MBMZR is second to none. I've never seen tempers flare or anything but the highest level of respect shown for other racers at their track. And, my car has ran numerous laps on the MBMZR track while sporting Reflex parts :cool:. If anyone missed out here, it was you. I sincerely hope that you reconsider your vacation plans and forum statements in the future.

I've been involved in RC for a long time. Not as long as some, but more than others. The Mini-Z family is a small, tight knit group that enjoys a truly magnificent hobby. Everyone can't get along with and like everyone, that's just a fact of life. But, we should all support any person or entity that attempts to further our hobby regardless of success :D. I love racing Mini-Z's more than any scale that I've ever ran and hope to see the hobby flourish as opposed to diminishing in the future due to derogatory statements.

raffaelli
2010.04.02, 08:15 AM
Have fun, good luck.

bermbuster
2010.04.02, 08:33 AM
I think the thing that puzzles me the most about this statement is that since 2007, raffaelli has only made 2 posts. One of which is shedding a negative light on a local Mini-Z club (MBMZR) :confused:..

I've been involved in RC for a long time. Not as long as some, but more than others. The Mini-Z family is a small, tight knit group that enjoys a truly magnificent hobby. Everyone can't get along with and like everyone, that's just a fact of life. But, we should all support any person or entity that attempts to further our hobby regardless of success :D. I love racing Mini-Z's more than any scale that I've ever ran and hope to see the hobby flourish as opposed to diminishing in the future due to derogatory statements.

^^^^^
is right on......
I cant wait to get down to Myrtle Beach to run with the MBMZR crew......

I wonder how well CT would do racing an enduro w a stock sealed motor????
I also wonder how well CT would do racing in the Metro NYC area????
See you guys on the RCP.....:D

Action B
2010.04.02, 08:36 AM
^^^^^
is right on......
I cant wait to get down to Myrtle Beach to run with the MBMZR crew......

I wonder how well CT would do racing an enduro w a stock sealed motor????
I also wonder how well CT would do racing in the Metro NYC area????
See you guys on the RCP.....:D

Is Christian still attending this event? I thought he said something along the lines of redoing a plane ticket to the other coast?

chad508
2010.04.02, 02:00 PM
i dont think hes attending any more. i believe theres a race in in cali he opted to run instead.

CristianTabush
2010.04.02, 07:40 PM
No I will not attend the event, as it no longer is a Reflex Event.

Berm, I don't see what the relevance is as to how I would do racing with a sealed stock motor? I have won 2 PN World Cups with sealed motors, including one in a different country, being the only non- European driver to win a class at the 07 Worlds. Sealed or not sealed, the rule applies to everyone. I also won't participate in the stock classes at the Enduros.

This rule was not made in an attempt to benefit me as a racer, but rather the racing series in general. It will help people learn and educate themselves on tuning motors, something A LOT of top guys already do, but seldom share with anyone else. Myself, I have never kept any information to myself, I have built and worked on many World Cup Winning Cars that were not my own, this is still my philosophy and it will keep being the same way for a long time to come, I enjoy sharing my knowledge and educating racers about our sport.

The fact about Blue printed motors is that they last longer and perform better, saving the end-user money in the long run. Once tuned, the variations from motor to motor become nearly inexistent, leveling out the playing field a WHOLE lot more than just getting lucky with the particular motor you may draw from a batch. Out of 10 random motors that i may test, 2 are really good, 2 are terrible and 5 or 6 are about "normal". If you tune the motors, 8 or 9 become really good and 1 or 2 will be better than average. To me, that is a huge gain and a leveling mechanism.

Hopefully, later on in the year I can attend an event up in the North East, there are a lot of fast drivers up there who I would love to have a chance to race against. Unfortunately right now, racing is not my priority, but rather developing products, projects and content for Reflex Racing. It is really tough when you are a 1 man show...