PDA

View Full Version : High Speed Hobbies Thursday Night Race Schedule


pedrocamp
2010.03.11, 11:22 PM
NEW START TIME IS 6:30 PM. 3/23/10
New schedule:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_12Mar200605.jpg

Below is the original text of the discussion:
After a rather vigorous discussion this evening about our evening race schedule I thought it would be appropriate to invite all to share their thoughts and suggestions on this forum - let's make our weekly racing run smoothly and fairly for all. Most importantly we need to be mindful and appreciative of the courtesy that Jim and Vicki show in hosting us at High Speed Hobbies, we can best show this by concluding our racing within the time they specify.

I would like to post an outline, within the next couple of days, of a typical nights schedule and get comments and suggestions on this proposal in hopes of presenting Andy, our Race Director supplied by HSH, a printed schedule to follow by Thursday, March 18th. This of course will be a first draft with adjustments made as necessary. Once we come up with an acceptable schedule, I will edit this first post with that schedule. I will print the shedule to post in the hobby shop and also attempt to have it posted on the High Speed Hobbies website, along with our current rules.

Thanks for your participation,

Pedro

cosmicsoul
2010.03.12, 09:33 AM
It seems to me like there is bunch of confusion. When is it that Jim and Vicki want us out of there? That is the question? Not trying to ruffle any feathers, sound unappreciative or disrespectfull to them or anybody.

We need to know when they Jim and Vicki would like for the evening to end. Last night I heard Jim say that he would like to be out of there by 10 oclock. I don't think that I am making this stuff up.

It seems to me that since I have been racing at High Speed since the end 07 we have never really ended at 9:00pm. I have never really heard Jim or Vicky say that we need to be done by 9:00pm, it has been implied by others that 9:00pm but not them or the race staff.

If 9:00pm is the cut off then there is a simple solution. Start earlier and finish by 9:00pm possibly earlier. I would suggest 6:00pm. If Jim wants to get out of there by 10 oclock I am not sure what all the commotion is about.

On another note I am not so into cutting out qualifiers or cutting back mains to save time. We all have a lot of time and money invested in this sport. I personally spend several hundred dollars a month at the Hobby shop wether I need stuff or not just to show my support and drive 2 hours round trip week in and week out rain or shine. This is one of times of my week that I look forward to most and enjoy. I do not want to be rushed and made to feel like I am or we are a burden to the shop. I do not think the shop owners think that we are. I think they very much enjoy having us and apprieciate our business. So why not just leave well enough alone. It seems like everytime we get in a rush to get out of there by 9 oclock all hell breaks loose and someone gets mad and offended.

All that being said, Thursday night racing is growing. If we do indeed need to get out of there by 9 lets get started at 6 or 6:30pm. Coupled with maybe purchasing a large clock and posting a set schedule that is strictly adhered to things should run a little smoother. I mean they have until yesterday. Cutting into peoples racing time is not going to do anything but make people upset. If I can't race two qualifiers and an 8 minute main in each class I am running I will stay home and start my own club in Greensboro, then maybe I can start winning some races.:D

I figured out that if we ran 10 four minute qualifiers, 5 eight minute mains with 5 minute pit breaks between each it would take 2 hours and 38 minutes. That breaks down into a C stock, B stock, A stock, (A) F-1/Lemans and (B) F-1/Lemans.

It is really simple guys this is not rocket science or brain surgery. None of us is going to get rich doing this. It seems to me we have 2 choices:

1. Start earlier
2. End later than 9:00pm

Pick one!

Stuck
2010.03.12, 10:12 AM
Based on 3 Stock Classes and 2 (either LM or F1) classes
6:45 Start
6:45 Stock C: 4 minute heat (followed by 3 minute break)
6:52 Stock B: 4 minute heat (followed by 3 minute break)
6:59 Stock A: 4 minute heat (followed by 5 minute break)
7:08 LM or F1 B: 4 minute heat (followed by 3 minute break)
7:15 LM or F1 A: 4 minute heat (followed by 5 minute break)
7:24 Stock C: 4 minute heat (followed by 3 minute break)
7:31 Stock B: 4 minute heat (followed by 3 minute break)
7:38 Stock A: 4 minute heat (followed by 5 minute break)
7:48 LM or F1 B: 4 minute heat (followed by 3 minute break)
7:55 LM or F1 A: 4 minute heat (followed by 5 minute break)
8:04 Stock C: 8 minute main (followed by 3 minute break)
8:15 Stock B: 8 minute main (followed by 3 minute break)
8:26 Stock A: 8 minute main (followed by 5 minute break)
8:39 LM or F1 B: 8 minute main (followed by 3 minute break)
8:50 LM or F1 A: 8 minute main
8:58 DONE

In an ideal world we would be able to stick to this schedule, but I don’t think 2 minutes allows enough time for error and other circumstances. The options would be either to:
Have only 1 heat for each A and B for LM and F1.
Reduce Heats from 4 minutes to 3 minutes.
Rigidly stick to the schedule.

I think it is unlikely that we have a full turnout every night, but in the event of that, it is important inspire the younger guys to stay involved and competitive with this. I know when I first started I would always compare my 8 minute main times to the guys in the A class and every week I saw my 30-35-40 laps get that much closer to their 60 laps (64 for those Wade fans out there). Especially with all the new guys we saw last night, they will want to see their times and lap count get better, they will buy upgrades, and this is good business for HSH. In theory this schedule would a lot us plenty of time in between races and if enforced would ensure everyone gets out of HSH by 9.

pick
2010.03.12, 10:42 AM
It does look simple on paper. But if you run the race in 2hrs and 38min, that translates to 9:40pm with a 7pm start. We all know that things will never run perfectly, which is OK.......but that puts us getting out around 10pm. Maybe Jim was misunderstood last night, but I heard him very clearly state that if the racing goes to 10pm he's gonna step in and change things. So, they don't want us there until 10 every Thursday in my mind. Vicki ran the races every night for years, and she always told us that the goal was 9pm. When we ran past 9pm she was mildly upset and changed our format on occasion to try and adhere to the 9pm schedule. However, Andy is running the races now and maybe we can stay later, I truly don't know :confused:.

With all that being said, I don't care if we stay later, begin earlier, change heats or shorten mains. I think that is ultimately up to the HSH staff, not us. Whatever the format and punishment for not adhering to it is, I will comply as always. I had nothing to do with shortening the mains and don't really care if they are 20min long or 2min long, I'll race regardless. The only time you'll see me get really upset is when 1 racer makes a decision or changes for all of us, or someone is cheating. I want HSH to make the rules, not us. If they wish to take our thoughts into consideration when doing so, it should be everyones not just one person who has their ear. Keep in mind that regardless of where you race (such as MBMZR), the lower mains are routinely shortened due to time restraints. BUT THAT STILL WASN'T MY IDEA !!!!

Here's the real problem, everyone can't be happy all of the time. That's just a fact of life. We already have a large group and it is continuously growing. The racing gets closer every week, and I truly think that it is anyone's for the winning or losing. People are gonna be shuffled around from time to time depending on where they qualify. Crap, we've all had good and bad nights! Keep in mind that we are all separated by fractions of a second. One mishap could easily change our status by 5 or 6 positions. I've been running at HSH since June 2007 and during that time I've ran every class there is. I've also lost and won every class we have run at one time or the other. Some nights were great and some horrible, but we all have to keep our cool.

We have a great club with some great guys and I don't want to lose anyone. We're kind of like a big family. And, families have disagreements from time to time. It's all in how you handle the disagreements though. Keep in mind that it's not our shop, our racetrack, or even our race. Things need to be settled in a manner that doesn't shed a negative light on our club or HSH. That will ultimately be our demise in the end :(. I can honestly say that I don't think anyone running the A-Main had anything to do with the other shortened mains. I also don't think that any one group is catered to. But, we should all strive together to make the night as enjoyable as possible for everyone involved. I know we all are competitive........and that's alright as long as our attitude stays in check. Keep in mind, though, that we win nothing at the end of the night except for bragging rights. There are no trophies, money, or points. This is simply our time to get away, hang out with good friends, and play with little cars like kids. And I love doing all of the above with each and every one of you. So, let's make this work. I will follow whatever schedule EVERYONE wants to run regardless. Let's just make sure that Jim and Vicki like it and have the final say.

Good friends, fast racing, and stiff competition...............that's what HSH is all about :D.

pedrocamp
2010.03.12, 12:33 PM
Thanks for the quick responses. Thanks especially to stuck for posting that timeline, very close to what i would have typed up other than I would have allowed 10 minutes for the sort before the mains. This also allows time for anyone that has a little testing to do on a repaired car before their main. As all three of you have stated we don't have enough time, with a full field, when starting at 7 and ending by 9. Since, as I have always understood, we need to be finishing by 9 we need to move the start time earlier to accomodate all racers. We never know how many are showing up so we need to always plan for a full field. Starting earlier is the only option since we don't want to upset management, we also need to try to get the youngsters, and Lara, out by 9. Some of us also have work the next day and have long drives home.

I see 6:45 as a good start with 6:30 as a further possibility. The race director, Andy in this case, needs to keep the event moving. The heats and races run with or without any individual. If you are not on track for transponder check-in that is your tough luck. If your, or my, diff balls fell out, that's unfortunate, the show goes on. I my years in professional motor racing I have never seen an event held up for Roger Penske, Rick Hendrick, Schumacher, Earnhardt or even Danica. The race starts, unless there's potholes!

It is not Andy's responsibility to find turn marshalls or wait on turn marshalls. The heats start with or without them. The racers pay the price for no marshalls, it shouldn't make any difference to Andy. The clock runs with or without them. If you will be driving a car, you need to be marshalling cars. No exceptions. If you have to work on your car, smoke a PallMall, text your girlfriend or check out the latest in flight simulators you need to find a stunt marshall. Andy should check for offenders though and the racers themselves should point them out to Andy as they ultimately pay the price for an upside down car. If you don't marshall, or don't find a replacement, you don't run your next heat or main. If you race - you marshall the next race. It is also the responsibility of the racers of the last main to organize sufficient marshalls for the last race of the evening, not Andy. Sons, friends, fellow racers, etc...

Out of time... more later.

Breeze
2010.03.12, 01:37 PM
After the Stock C main was run, I was surprised to hear that only 4 minutes were alloted. I fully understand the protester's concern about this. This is ridiculous and a sure way to keep new racers from coming back. We are all there to have a good time and play with our toy cars. To let the faster guys have more run time is unfair. Our Thursday night club racing is not a ROAR sanctioned event or a PN Racing event. It is a group of guys racing model cars. I am all for starting earlier, say 6 or 6:30, and having 3 hrs to get the racing in. As has been stated, there is no reason why we cannot race all three classes - Stock / LM / F1 in the same evening if we have 3 hours. We could finish in 2.5 hrs if we reduce the qualifying to 3 minute heats. I was particularly bummed that because of the ensuing revelry at the end of the Stock A main, the chief reveler balked at his own words when the Race Director called the F1 racers to the line in the time frame that had been decided upon during the heated discussion at the end of the C Main. We had 4 minutes. I was listening to the count down. I was ready to race, I started the race, and then was told, No the start did not count, the chief reveler was not ready and then began giving all of us his reasoning. Because the reasoning from the chief reveler continued for a couple more minutes, I had to withdraw my entry, as my personal responsibilities on this particular evening dictated that I be done by 9 (I usually do not have a problem staying later, but this time the wife was away and I had to take care of our diabetic, insulin dependant dog). Had we stuck to the plan as discussed, and attempted to be carried out by the Race Director, I could have raced that last main. Oh Well :(
I am all far 3 minute qualifying heats. I have deduced that if we start @ 6:30 we can run 2 rounds of 3 minute qualifiers with 3 minute breaks, break for 10 minutes before the main round and run 8 minute mains with 3 minute breaks, we can run all three classes (Stock, LM and F1) and be done by 9:15, if the schedule is adhered to rigorously. Sorry for the long rant, I feel better now :D

cosmicsoul
2010.03.12, 02:30 PM
So what time are we going to start? 6 oclock might be early for some but surely we can get it all done by 9 that way.

Let me know as soon as we can come to some kind of understanding, as I have not been able to sleep since the onset of all this drama and turmoil.

hrdrvr
2010.03.12, 02:37 PM
^ No after lunch nap today? ;)

Traveler
2010.03.12, 03:13 PM
Here is my 2 cents for what it's worth...

If we need to be finished around 9:00 pm, we have 2 choices - (a) start earlier or (b) spend less time racing. Now bear with me ;)

Under option (a) I'm pretty sure Andy yesterday indicated 6:00 PM would be too early for him to get to the shop. He seemed OK with 6:30 PM, but we'd be wise to confirm this with him and management first.

Under option (b) we have 2 more choices, both of which were mentioned last night. (1) Reduce the allotted time for heats/races. Not a great option for anyone:( (2) Reduce the amount of time we spend NOT racing. Here we may have some room for improvement, but I'm not sure its enough. :eek:

For example, based on data from the AMB timing system, on the night of 1/21/10 we ran from 7:08 to 9:50, for a total of 2 hours and 42 minutes. We ran 2 heats each for Stock C, B and A and LM B and A (4 min each), followed by Stock C, B and A mains (4, 6 and 8 mins) and only one LM main for 8 mins. Of the total time of 2:42, we only spent 1:06 actually racing heats and mains. The remaining 1:36 minutes was used for "inbetweentime".:o

On this particular night, which I am assuming is a typical night, if we wanted to be done by 9:00, we would have had to cut the "inbetweentime" by around 50 minutes, or by a little more than half. The question I have is can we realistically do this?:confused:

Seems to me the least painful way to accomplish the goal of being done by 9:00 pm or so is to start earlier.

kromie101
2010.03.12, 05:42 PM
i just wanna say hi:D. everybody just smile.

i know smart azz bald guy:). not you marawan,me:D

cosmicsoul
2010.03.12, 07:41 PM
I was just sitting around praying to
the Miniz gods about are situation when they revealed to me they are very angry we are not spending more time racing. They are commanding us to start earlier and stay later!

kwsmith29
2010.03.12, 09:51 PM
If I pissed someone off, I will say SORRY only once. Very few handled them selves like adults last night. Smart a$$ comments and pulling cars off the track are not a fix for any problem. I didn't have a problem with the F1 race starting and didn't make any comments until the race director stopped the race. The majority of F1 racers just finished racing the stock A main. Why would it be OK to give the bump up a little time and not someone with classes back to back? Another question. We have been running 4 minute c main's and 6 minute b mains for 6 or 8 weeks now. Why has it been OK for the kids to run 4 minutes and now all of a sudden it's a problem?
*
I'm offended by the comment you A main guys. That's garbage. There have been many a night I worked late and got to the Hobby shop just before the mains started and have to work my way up. There is no A main group, B main group, better racer, crappy racer, or whatever. I thought we were all friends, I thought we all helped each other, I want to compete against everyone, not just the "good guys". Whats the reason for bashing someone here. It's just wrong. I've always said the guys I race with at HSH is*the best and most competitive bunch of guys I have ever raced with in my 30+ years of RC racing. I still stand by that statement. I know we'll put all of this aside and get this figured out.
*
I've been racing here at HSH since the racing started here. Lara probably has just about as much tenure. The race schedule has always*started at*7:00. We want to be done at 9:00. If not, at least out the doors and gone by 10:00. I know Jim said last night the races must be done by 10:00 or he will stop it all together. I'm all for starting at 6:30. Whatever everyone wants is OK with me.
*
I do like alternating weekly F1 and LM. My opinion three classes a night is to much.

pedrocamp
2010.03.12, 10:41 PM
I am at least happy to say we have a very competitive group of guys! We are lucky to have such a good group of very fast racers, between us and MBZR we are MniZ racing in the Southeast. Our group can show well at any track we travel too.

I know all clubs and groups go through these scheduling problems, just do a search here on MZR for 1/28 scale or RCTECH for the larger stuff. The Ann Arbor group is going through the same issues but they have to set up and tear down their track every race night; thanks to Jim and Vicki we don't have to do that!

While tempers might have gotten heated I think we are already close to a consensus:


It is important to be finishing up as close to 9 as possible to allow Jim to close up by 10.

All heats and mains should be equal time for all levels of skill.

Two heats and a main for both classes run on a given evening.

More time is needed between heats but this time needs to be very tightly controlled.

Only two classes should be run a night.

Our group has been growing lately and we need to schedule for this.

An earlier start time of 6:30PM would suit most.

The MiniZ gods are angry!


I am working on some different scheduling scenarios and will post when I play with Excel some more...

pedrocamp
2010.03.12, 11:23 PM
This scenario has a 6:30 start time, 4 minute grid times with 2 heats of 4 minutes and 8 minute mains. It also includes a 10 minute break before the mains for sorts and final testing.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_04Mar122315.jpg

pedrocamp
2010.03.12, 11:25 PM
This is the same scenario with shorter grid times:

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_02Mar122310.jpg

pedrocamp
2010.03.12, 11:27 PM
This scenario includes all 3 classes with F1 and LM only running one qualifier:

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_03Mar122310.jpg

kwsmith29
2010.03.12, 11:30 PM
I like it. Thanks for all the great ideas guys.....

pedrocamp
2010.03.12, 11:38 PM
This is Don:

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_06Mar122336.jpg

pedrocamp
2010.03.12, 11:45 PM
These scenarios do of course assume a very tightly controlled GRID, or BREAK, time. We do have enough time to run a full program as long as everyone is ready to go and marshalls are in position. Of course most nights we do not have a full program so we should have more time but each night should start as if there will be one. Later in the evening Andy can grant the luxury of longer breaks or allow for repair delays. Everyone should be aware though that the race can and should proceed without them if time is short. Conversely if everyone is on the ball and has their cars on the track in 2 minutes checked in with marshalls ready Andy should hit the button.

pedrocamp
2010.03.13, 07:23 AM
If there are other scenarios anyone would like to see or suggest let me know as my worksheet is easy to adjust.

pick
2010.03.13, 08:15 AM
There actually are other scenarios I'd like to see. However, they mostly include Pedro and Wade holding each other while wearing nothing but speedos. Maybe Eric and Jay watching in the background. Do you think we could pull that off :)?

Traveler
2010.03.13, 08:30 AM
Pedro, thanks for taking the time to find solutions to Don's "I'm not going to take this anymore" grievance and J&V's closing time concerns.

Of the three options you posted, I like the first the best. I believe I'm usually ready on time and one of the first on the track at check-in, but a 3 minute grid as used in options 2 & 3 may be a little too tight.

I'll go with the majority preference, but I find the racing somewhat intense and if the breaks are too short, that might add more stress to something that should be enjoyable.:eek: I already hold my bodily functions during race time, but know if I need to go, I can. With only 3 minute grids, we may start having more accidents. Piss or race? Hmmm, I think I can hold it 8 more minutes - ooops! :o Besides, when is a brother supposed to get advice from the masters? :(

I share Snoop's philosophy "Laid back, sippin Gin and Juice". :D

kwsmith29
2010.03.13, 09:33 AM
Me and a speedo, are you sick! Never mind we are talking about Pick.

What about extra time for the bumps in the main and people running back to back? As we saw Thursday night 4 minutes isn't enought time when half the field is running back to back.

cosmicsoul
2010.03.13, 12:18 PM
First of all if I offended any of you, get over it! Personally, I am unoffendalble!

On another note I really enjoy everyone in the group and hope that we can put Thursday nights antics in the past and cast them into the sea of forgetfullness.

Let's move forward learn and grow. In order for the smooth workings of society to continue we must go through conflict and change. Allthough this socialogical perdium may be true, let's make a consorted effort to keep it at minimum.

That is why I am formally submitting the GROUP HUG ACT which states that all racers will start and finish each night of racing with a GROUP HUG! This will of course require that you come to the track properly bathed and deoderized with the appropriate products.(Please do not be offended if this comment does not pertain to you, but if it does you know who you are.) I have found that in my vast years of interpersonal training GROUP HUGGING is good for the overall moral of any orginization.

With all that said I vote for the first choice that Pedro has given us.

pedrocamp
2010.03.13, 12:26 PM
James = sick!

Below is a typical race night timeline of events...

Thanks to Marwan for compiling this. I took some liberties with the formatting:

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_07Mar131200.jpg

As can be seen most of our evening is spent trying to get the cars on the track. In the perfect sense scenarios I posted we spend more time on track than off. We don't need to shorten heats, just shorten the time we spend between heats peaking batteries, finding marshalls, BS'n, etc...
The C main - B Main guys shouldn't be paying the price for disorganization. I think that is agreed by all. James made a good comment, that each class is actually part of one big race, we only split it into 2 or 3 groups because we can't race with more than 6 cars on track. All the races then should be of equal length for a fair comparison.

Is 4 minutes enough time to run back to back heats or races? If you peak your batteries during the preceding heat? If you want to bump should your batteries be peaking during your race? I think 4 minutes is enough as long as you don't wait to do batteries while you should be gridding.

cosmicsoul
2010.03.13, 08:26 PM
I know I am probably one of the one's guilty of taking too long. I do however think 4 minutes is probably enough time to get ready if you don't BS around. I personally have five chargers and should be able to be ready in time.

I think it can be done. We and the race coordinator need to respectfully hold each other accountable. We definately need to use the timers and the clock to our advantage.

So how is the schedule going to appear. Maybe we should give everyone a copy of the schedule and rules along with the address to the forum. We should definately encourage forum participation so everyone can stay informed.

kromie101
2010.03.13, 10:42 PM
jay, am i in that group hug,or am i an outsider:D?

james,i have a sponge bob square pants thong that i wear sometimes:eek:.

awcollier06
2010.03.14, 06:48 PM
Hey it is Andy. I would like it to be known that there are very few rules that HSH has for the race night.

1. We can not have people yelling, fighting or doing anything like that. HSH is a place of bussiness and when you all are there so are other customers and we can't scare them off. (from this point on i will be inforcing that and that may mean i will ask you to leave the store until u calm down weather that is 5 minutes or 5 weeks is up to you)

2. Race is to be over by 9pm. we have been going past then since as long as i have been there but that is the goal.

3. clean up after yourself. If you have trash thow it away if you move boats, plane, cars or anything else put it back. Kasey has to put stuff back every week and we can't have that. (I would hate to see you guys not be able to move any of that stuff and pit some where else)

4. Have fun. That is what the whole night is for. weather you are 5 or 100 your are there for the fun. there is no money, no points, no prizes. it is that way so it is all about the fun.

Everything else is up to you all. how we race, the times of the heats and mains, what classes everything is up to you it is a democary in that way if you have a problem with something come to me, another competator you are comferable with or who ever as long as we talk and come up with something as a group. But on the other hand once we have the rules in play that is was i go by and that is what i will inforce no matter what anyone else says. I am the nights A hole if you will. I will be alot more stricked while still trying to keep it fun now. I am NASCAR or the law or how ever you want to put it. what i say goes, but i am only enforcing what you all told me to. I do not play favorites no matter what anyone else wants to think. you all are a great bunch of guys so this is a small speed bump that i think will start to make the racing even more enjoyable.

any questions feel free to ask.

awcollier06
2010.03.14, 06:52 PM
6:30 is fine with me. pushing time a little close but fine. There may be a time or 2 you are waiting on me but most of the time i can be there. I get out of work at 5 on thursday which mean i don't accually leave until around 5:15 by the time i get home shower, cook and eat dinner it is usually about 6 or 6:15 then i head up. so as long as work doesn't hold me up i can be there.

Traveler
2010.03.14, 07:14 PM
Hi Andy! Its Marwan.

Good to see you on here and thanks for sharing the shop's perspective on race night.

You probably don't here this enough, and I think I speak for the others when I say thanks for what you've been doing for us as race director. Without HSH and you, we wouldn't have what we have.

Thanks again!

pedrocamp
2010.03.14, 08:29 PM
Thanks Andy for joining the forum and your interest in improving the program. We all appreciate what you do and I know we can all work together to learn how to make this the best place to race 1/28th scale in the Southeast. We have a great, fast bunch of racers and we all are thankful to Jim and Vicki for a place to race and, in addition, their willingness to provide a Race Director is a great benefit to us. Vicki always did a great job doing the timing and scoring but we know it was a bit of a burden on her some nights. Thanks for taking on the challenge!

Since Jim and Vicki pretty much give us free reign to run the program as we wish, we try to govern ourselves as a democracy as you said. We all are a bunch of competitive individuals nonetheless so sometimes tempers can become a bit heated. I think we all realize that raised voices are not the way to properly settle things and that a set of rules to govern us, decided on by all, is the best way to prevent further conflict. I believe that possibly this discussion we are having now is overdue, especially with the current growth of the program.

We know that Jim and Vicki would like to be in their home by ten and that the nine o'clock cutoff is a request we need to honor. We also understand that we need to conduct ourselves as adults and remember we are in a family run, family centered business. We encourage kids to join in the racing and we need to have an atmosphere that parents will find safe.

As you have read, we are working on getting together an outline for the night's event as well as general rules of conduct. I should have this compiled by tomorrow evening and posted for the group's OK (those on the forum anyway). This Thursday we can talk to those who may not have seen the schedule and rules and take it for a trial run. It will take the cooperation of all of us involved to make it an even better program than it has been.

Thanks...

pick
2010.03.15, 09:55 AM
I do not play favorites no matter what anyone else wants to think.

C'mon Andy. Please reconsider playing favorites. I truly enjoy listening to Journey's "Open Arms" or maybe a little Lionel Richie's "Endless Love" while racing ;). Man, talking 'bout getting a warm, fuzzy feeling :eek:. And I refuse to run a main without some BeeGee's "Staying Alive" in the background :rolleyes:. Now, my buddy Jay prefers some Techno Dance/Porn music. Not my preference, but I'll deal with it as long as we're playing favorites still :).

While I'm thinking of it.....Pedro didn't allow any time for the group hug in the schedule :p. The entire night should definitely revolve around that event. And, NO, Eric shall not be included. He's an outsider, one of them! If he wants to race, we should force him to watch the rest of us engage in the group hug though :cool:. I know, wipe your tears big guy it's just the rules.

Oh, and when I'm put outside for yelling and fighting will someone watch my kid :o? Or will he be banished with me for 5 min? Doesn't really seem fair to him. Could we reduce the minimum banishment time to 4 min so I can still make the next race :rolleyes:. I get over things rather quickly :D. Just some random thoughts in my already very confused head.

pedrocamp
2010.03.15, 05:52 PM
All:

Please review the following General Rules and make comments and suggestions, point out confusing wording, etc...

I will post an adjusted schedule for a 7:00PM start time that has been suggested for this week and maybe next. We should shift to the 6:30 start time as soon as most of our racers have been informed of the time change.

Thanks, Pedro

HIGH SPEED HOBBIES
1/28TH SCALE RACING GENERAL RULES

PLEASE SEE THE HIGH SPEED HOBBIES TECHNICAL RULES FOR CLASSES AND CAR SPECIFICATIONS

• HIGH SPEED HOBBIES 1/28TH SCALE RACING is a family oriented, fun, weekly race event that welcomes racers of all experience and skill levels. Novices and kids are highly encouraged to participate.
• Vulgar language and inappropriate attitudes will not be tolerated. This is a family run, family oriented business with racing held only for FUN, no awards or prizes are given. Special race events may be organized that do include prizes and giveaways but these same important rules still apply. Anyone determined to be in violation shall be asked to leave the building immediately by the Race Director.
• All racers must sign in on the white Sign-In Board, name in each class run plus frequency if the chassis has an AM board. Please sign in on arrival so as not to delay the initial Heat sort.
• If a racer does not have a timing transponder, please inform the Race Director so a hand count can be organized.
• All racers will be placed into groups by relative experience. There are no re-sorts between the Heats. If a racer, in the opinion of the Race Director and/or fellow racers, displays experience well beyond his Group, he may be bumped into a faster Group. In this case a less experienced racer may be bumped to accommodate.
• The Race Director shall evenly distribute cars into Heats with an effort at no more than 6 cars per Heat. A Heat should include at least 4 cars. The Mains shall be arranged such that the upper Mains shall have a 5 car field with the first Main constituting the remainder of the field. Each Main winner may bump up to the next Main. The winner must be ready to race the next Main in no more than 4 minutes. If the winner declines the bump the second place finisher may elect to race. Should the second place finisher decline then the Main will proceed with 5 competitors.
• ALL racers must Turn Marshall AFTER their Heat or Race. All Marshalls must be present BEFORE the start of the Race. If a racer is not able to Turn Marshall he must organize a replacement. It is not the responsibility of the Race Director to locate or organize Turn Marshalls. It is the responsibility of the Race Director, and fellow racers, to note those racers who disregard this rule. Any racer who does not Marshall or organize a replacement shall have their times disallowed for the following Heat or Race, including the next Thursday’s event.
• The Track is available for Open Practice until the Call to Grid is made by the Race Director.
• Once the Call to Grid is made all cars except those in the first Heat must be off the track.
• Once the Heat or Race is over all cars from the completed race must pull off track. No testing or fun laps allowed.
• There is no testing or fun laps allowed during the Grid periods for any cars not in the upcoming Heat or Race. Only the cars in the upcoming session are allowed on track.
• There will be testing and fun laps allowed during the Sort break, but ONLY at the discretion of the Race Director. If the Race Director has not called Open Testing, a car may be put on track ONLY if permission is granted by the Race Director. The Race Director controls the schedule and ONLY he may decide if there is sufficient time for Open Testing.
• All racers should be packed and able to leave the building BEFORE 10PM. Please settle all hobby shop tabs and pay the Race Fee to the Race Director as soon as possible.
• All merchandise displaced from the pit tables should be returned to it's location at the end of the evening. Please remember HIGH SPEED HOBBIES provides the pit tables for our convenience and all merchandise on these tables is HIGH SPEED HOBBIES or consigned property. Please handle with care and relocate so it won't be damaged.
• Please direct all rules and scheduling questions to the Race Director and/or fellow racers. The HIGH SPEED HOBBIES management does not handle these disputes.
• The Race Director and HIGH SPEED HOBBIES management reserves the right to adjust rules and scheduled times as necessary. The Racing Rules, Technical Rules and Track Design are to be decided by majority rule among all interested participants. For additional information, and to participate in current discussions, please see the HIGH SPEED HOBBIES threads on the Mini Z Racer.com forum.

pedrocamp
2010.03.15, 05:54 PM
Oh yea, I need to readjust the schedule for the "GROUP HUG", James gets to be the filling in the Moon Pie.

Traveler
2010.03.15, 06:04 PM
Sounds fine to me. Got a couple of questions/comments though.

1- Who normally marshalls the first heat of the night and does that need to be included in these rules?

2- I'm not sure what "Any racer who does not Marshall or organize a replacement shall have their times disallowed for the following Heat or Race, including the next Thursday’s event." means :confused:

Finally, I'd like a personal exemption from the group hug rule based on religious grounds :)

mleemor60
2010.03.15, 06:33 PM
I like it. Everything appears to be covered so let's try to make it happen.

kwsmith29
2010.03.15, 06:55 PM
The last heat for the round marshalls the first race.....

kromie101
2010.03.15, 07:14 PM
james,you cut me real deep:(.:D. you just tazered me:p.

pedrocamp
2010.03.15, 08:56 PM
Good points. I can include the marshalls from the last heat marshall the first. I suppose I can re-word to: "Any Racer who does not Marshall or organize a replacement Marshall shall have their times thrown out in their next Main, either that night or the following race night they attend." Too harsh? Of course this would be for blatent offenders. I think some leniency should be allowed for young kids and novices. I also think all the regulars are very good at fufilling their duty and volunteering for marshall duty when called upon. I just thought we should let newcomers know that Marshalling is not something you do if you feel like it. They also need to know that if they need to work on their car that they can't just blow off marshalling, they need to find someone to fill in.

pedrocamp
2010.03.15, 09:10 PM
7:00PM Start Schedule:

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_10Mar152059.jpg

I did label the Qualifying Heats as Groups rather than Heat C, B, A to add unique importance to the Mains and also to not seemingly prejudge racers. This format has been used at many larger scale RC races and tracks. I also used the "Grid" name rather than "Break" to let everyone know that we are in fact gridding for the next race, it is not a break time to throw a car on the track to have a grudge race or break in new knuckles. I can change these if the group prefers.

kromie101
2010.03.15, 09:19 PM
jay,did i leave my front clip for the lambo in that autoscale case i gave ya?

cosmicsoul
2010.03.15, 10:23 PM
I vote that Pedro get to race free Thursday for all the effort he has put forth!:)

I do not vote Pedro for president though, he is way too nice for the job:(, so it seems.

If you all would like me to be president I will gladly accept. I love telling people what to do, exploiting the poor and taking advantage of old ladies.:eek:

I say that we should charge the new racers $15.00 a race, $5.00 for the track $5.00 for me and $5.00 for whoever esle will vote for me!

Anyone who's got anything to say about it will be robbed in the parking lot, for starters! :mad:

pedrocamp
2010.03.16, 12:17 PM
After some proofreading and a few clarifications (thanks Marwan) I hope we have a workable first draft of the General Rules. If anyone has issues with any of the following please post here or we can meet Thursday either before or after the races. None of this has been chisled into a stone tablet so please make comments or suggestions. Marwan has offered to print the General Rules and Schedule as well as a re-print of the Technical Rules.

HIGH SPEED HOBBIES
1/28TH SCALE RACING GENERAL RULES
PLEASE SEE THE HIGH SPEED HOBBIES TECHNICAL RULES FOR CLASSES AND CAR SPECIFICATIONS
• HIGH SPEED HOBBIES is a family oriented business that hosts a weekly 1/28TH SCALE RACING event for fun. Racers of all ages and skill levels are welcome, novices and children are encouraged to participate.
• Vulgar language and inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated. Anyone determined by the Race Director to be in violation shall be asked to leave the building immediately.
• All racers must sign in on the white Sign-In Board by placing their name in each class they wish to run plus their frequency if their chassis has an AM board. Please sign in on arrival so as not to delay the initial Heat sort.
• If a racer does not have a timing transponder, please inform the Race Director so a hand count can be organized.
• All racers will be placed into groups by the Race Director based on relative experience. There are no re-sorts between the Heats. If a racer, in the opinion of the Race Director and/or fellow racers, displays experience well beyond his Group, he may be bumped into a faster Group. In this case a less experienced racer may be bumped to accommodate.
• The Race Director shall evenly distribute cars into Heats with an effort at no more than 6 cars per Heat. A Heat should include at least 4 cars. The Mains shall be arranged such that the upper Mains shall have a 5 car field with the first Main constituting the remainder of the field. Each Main winner may bump up to the next Main. The winner must be ready to race the next Main in no more than 4 minutes. If the winner declines the bump the second place finisher may elect to race. Should the second place finisher decline then the Main will proceed with 5 competitors.
• ALL racers must Turn Marshall AFTER their Heat or Race. The first Heat of the evening will be marshalled by those racers in the last Heat of the first qualifying round. All Marshalls must be present BEFORE the start of the Race. If a racer is not able to Turn Marshall he must organize a replacement. It is not the responsibility of the Race Director to locate or organize Turn Marshalls. It is the responsibility of the Race Director, and fellow racers, to note those racers who disregard this rule. At the Race Director’s discretion, any racer who does not Marshall or organize a replacement may be asked to sit out their next Heat or Race, including the next Thursday’s event.
• The Track is available for Open Practice until the Call to Grid is made by the Race Director.
• Once the Call to Grid is made all cars except those in the first Heat must be off the track.
• Once the Heat or Race is over all cars from the completed race must pull off track. No testing or fun laps allowed.
• There is no testing or fun laps allowed during the Grid periods for any cars not in the upcoming Heat or Race. Only the cars in the upcoming session are allowed on track.
• There will be testing and fun laps allowed during the Sort break, but ONLY at the discretion of the Race Director. If the Race Director has not called Open Testing, a car may be put on track ONLY if permission is granted by the Race Director. The Race Director controls the schedule and ONLY he may decide if there is sufficient time for Open Testing.
• All racers should be packed and able to leave the building BEFORE 10PM. Please settle all hobby shop tabs and pay the Race Fee to the Race Director as soon as possible.
• All merchandise displaced from the pit tables should be returned to it's location at the end of the evening. Please remember HIGH SPEED HOBBIES provides the pit tables for our convenience and all merchandise on these tables is HIGH SPEED HOBBIES or consigned property. Please handle with care and relocate so it won't be damaged.
• Please direct all rules and scheduling questions to the Race Director and/or fellow racers. The HIGH SPEED HOBBIES management does not handle these disputes.
• The Race Director and HIGH SPEED HOBBIES management reserves the right to adjust rules and scheduled times as necessary. The Racing Rules, Technical Rules and Track Design are to be decided by majority rule among all interested participants. For additional information, and to participate in current discussions, please see the HIGH SPEED HOBBIES threads on the Mini Z Racer.com forum.

kwsmith29
2010.03.16, 12:43 PM
Thanks Pedro, and the hell with all those other guys. I'll vote for you......:D

pick
2010.03.17, 07:31 AM
I have to agree with the Mad :mad: Mexican. Pedro is way too nice to be President :rolleyes:. However, I did hear that he almost lost it at work the other day while working on our race schedule.......

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7337/rabbit0149bc.jpg

I, myself, prefer to be ruled in total tyranny :p. So, I shall now be launching the VFV campaign (Vote for Vasquez). Jay has already revealed to you the ramifications of not siding with us, so choose wisely :eek:.

pedrocamp
2010.03.18, 11:49 PM
Before I get into this VFV campaign announcement let me say good job to everyone tonight. Everyone agreed that it was hectic, Andy said we finished only 4 minutes over our 7:00 start schedule and that was only because he gave us an 8 minute break before the mains rather than the scheduled 4. I think we were on time because we were missing a certain someone who is off at some fruity hot rod show. He's drag racing alright, yea like RuPaul!

Below is then new schedule with a 6:30 start time and extended grid periods. This should give us enough time to service the cars during the quals. The 4 minutes between mains could be stretched to five if someone has a problem getting on track. The sort break is extended to 8 minutes.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_11Mar182312.jpg

Not only would Vasquez be a Tax and Spend President, he would pull the plug on Granny, take away our semiautomatic weapons, give Ahmadinejhad hugs and butt smacks, try to give Wall Street another 9 gazzillion dollars, bomb Alaska, hide embezzeled race fees in his freezer, pass new rules in the dead of night (like 12:00 AM) and indoctrinate young racers into his UN - MWG group! While I am not running for President (too many skeletons!) I will start a T-Plate Party Movement to stop this madness!

Finley M. Brook
2010.03.19, 05:45 AM
Is this an event that all the family will enjoy or is it more for the people who just like the racing?

pedrocamp
2010.03.19, 07:05 AM
We really encourage spectators to attend and to participate. The racing strategy is no different than even full scale racing. We have quite a few racers that are not even racing fans in the true sense, in that they don't watch NASCAR or F1 races every weekend. We just all enjoy the competition and friendship that we get racing these little cars. We do have a few racers, as well as our Race Director, that are involved in or have been involved in full scale racing as well as other scales of RC racing. We all find these cars to be a fun, affordable way to race. We have a very good group of veterans and new racers. We have racers ranging from 6 years old to 60+. The races are 4 to 8 minutes long and there is plenty of action from 6:30 till 9:00 on Thursday evenings. Please bring your kids, they all like seeing little cars crashing and bashing and speeding by. My daughters, 4 and 6, enjoy running my cars and my teenage son races when he has a break from schoolwork. Hope you and your family can join us... spectators are free and racing is $5.00 for anyone 16 and over, kids race free. We don't have rentals but many members have cars that they can let you try as well as used cars for sale. The shop has great prices on MiniZs and accessories.

Hope to meet you,

Pedro

pedrocamp
2010.03.19, 12:32 PM
A couple of comments on last nights run. We had five in two qualifying heats and 3 in the "C" heat. We should have had 4,4 and 5 with 5 cars in the fastest heat. I think we should always load cars to the faster heats since they tend to have less contact. For the Mains we needed 5,5 and 3 (as was run) to have full fields in the faster Mains. This gives us a good comparison from week to week since we always run with the same amount of cars. Having a lesser number in the slower heats reduces the carnage that happens with less experienced drivers. For equal qualifying opportunities though we should split the field as evenly as possible. This is already mentioned in the General Rules.
We managed to stay very close to schedule but it was hectic with comments made that "if you broke you were done". We should add a little time between the qualifying heats for car maintenance (have a total of 5 minutes) and have less time between the Mains (4 minutes plus a 1 minute additional available for anyone with honest car issues). I have tweaked the 6:30 start schedule with these times. Remember each additional minute we add runs us one minute more past 9 (we are already at 9:02). Hopefully these additional minutes will make the races, or time in between, less hectic and more enjoyable. I will post this 6:30 schedule later when I can access my photo share website.
With recent participation it is also looking like we could have a fourth Stock heat or a third LM heat. If we add one more heat to the schedule it adds 30 minutes to the evenings running. This would put us past 9:30, with a 6:30 start. Since we can't be running that far past 9 and we can't really start much earlier than 6:30 we have to load the heats up a bit more, go to 7 cars. Many have said they could not get to the shop early enough for a 6:00 start, including our Race Director Andy. We need to be out by 10, we can't finish racing at 9:30. More chances for delays that would put us past 10. In my opinion we have too run fuller fields. It would be the same situation for all if we use the car count formula I posted above. NASCAR has 40+ on the track, we could deal with 7.

cosmicsoul
2010.03.19, 11:06 PM
Adding more cars to the field, although not my personal preference, is probably the most viable solution to the problem. That is combined with increasing the time between heats or grids as suggested.

The fast pace was a little hectic, I would agree. Especially if you are trying to help someone out. I managed to keep batteries charged for myself and Ray while working on Bob's car as well. Maybe I am just patting my self on the back because I have low self esteem but, it can be done.

All this being said more traffic = more challenge! I know for myself manuvering through traffic is not one of my strong suits, in fact I hate passing people. However I know I need to improve in this area so I welcome the challenge. I think in the long run it will make us all better drivers and more prepared for larger events where there are more cars in the field.

Well friends in Mini-z land I hope you all have great weekends and I look forward to see all of you smiley faces Thursday! :p

pedrocamp
2010.03.20, 06:12 AM
Andy recorded our start times for each Heat and Main, not bad... The grey shows where we went over, including a late start.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_13Mar200606.jpg

pedrocamp
2010.03.20, 06:33 AM
After a little reformatting to make it easier to understand, here is the proposed 6:30 start time schedule:

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_12Mar200605.jpg

I also reverted to calling the Heats A,B and C since I don't think the 1,2, and 3 are gonna take. I bumped the Grid times in the Heats to 5 minutes. The Grid times during the Mains remains at 4 with a 1 minute extention available if someone has a problem. Looking at last Thursdays schedule it will probably happen at least once. I extended the Sort time to 8 minutes. The Start and End times are for reference only, the important column is the Minutes, we have to keep as close to them as possible. If we have a particularly eager group and they are ready to go early, Andy could start the race and save us a minute for later. Also once Andy Calls to Grid for the first Heat, everybody but the first Group needs to get off the track and the Marshalls from the last Heat need to be ready to go. During the Grid periods, only the cars in the next Heat should be on track. It adds confusion to the Transponder Check and just delays things if others are out testing or running for fun. The Sort Break is 8 minutes long, this allows time for testing or grudge matches.

pedrocamp
2010.03.20, 06:38 AM
Here is an example of what adding a Heat does to the Schedule. It would add a total of 30 minutes, putting us well over our 9:00 end time. I think we have to run more cars in the Heats and enjoy the traffic practice that Jay wants anyway...

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/cojono/ScreenHunter_14Mar200606.jpg

pedrocamp
2010.03.20, 06:42 AM
If I could ask everyone to look at the General and Technical Rules to see if there are any points of arguement or clarity. I would like to finalize these and send for print, thanks Marwan! Let me know if the Schedule is acceptable too...

cosmicsoul
2010.03.20, 09:27 AM
I would just like to clarify that I HATE traffic. However like Pedro has stated in order for the race schedule to run smoothly and allow more time between heats, larger fields are necessary.

I myself would be okay with smaller fields and less time between heats.

Like the song says,"You can't always get what you want".

Mostly I am just happy to race every Thursday however we do it! I think that the proposed format is acceptable and as self imposed president elect I hereby formally submit my vote of yes!

Traveler
2010.03.20, 09:52 AM
With recent participation it is also looking like we could have a fourth Stock heat or a third LM heat. If we add one more heat to the schedule it adds 30 minutes to the evenings running.

Jay, I think Pedro's comment about loading up the heats is in anticipation of the size of the group growing in the future. I don't envision having to go to 7 cars now. But if that day comes, we could consider a staggered start like we did when we had the Diablo II. It may not prevent a pileup at some stage, but it will help avoid one in the first turn.

I like the 6:30 start schedule with added grid time and agree with the general and technical rules. Once all this is agreed upon and finalized, lets be sure to communicate it to all interested parties.

Thanks for working on all of this Pedro. You've got my vote!

razer3281
2010.03.21, 09:30 PM
I know im a noobie and everything but agree with the schedule no matter what. I just want to go to the HSH on thursdays and race thats all. I think we all need to agree with a census on thurday to fix the confusion. We all need to respect each other and HSH staff. Of course some of us will not agree but thats life. I will just say i love racing at HSH its one of the coolest things. I look foward to going to thursdays it the highlight of my week. I mean i had a stock mini-z and i have got a hook up everytime i have went to HSH from friends like all of you guys.Big thanks to J. Lets all just get along and agree to something plz.
Thanks
Ray

pedrocamp
2010.03.21, 11:24 PM
Thanks for posting Ray. You are coming along very quickly, you looked good in that B Main. We are happy to have you racing at HSH and are glad to help. Jay's a super good guy and he has a lot of stuff! Don't hesitate to ask anyone for help or advice.
I think we ran pretty smoothly last week and I think this week will be even better. Remember the 6:30 start time!

pedrocamp
2010.03.23, 10:53 PM
First post updated with the new schedule. We will have some printed copies at the track this Thursday.

Thanks guys!

pedrocamp
2010.03.23, 11:00 PM
I have attached a PDF of the schedule for you to print and hand out to all your friends...

pedrocamp
2010.03.23, 11:13 PM
Here is the Tech Rules Table, attached...

pedrocamp
2010.03.23, 11:18 PM
The General Rules: no spittin, no cussin, etc... attached.

pedrocamp
2010.03.23, 11:21 PM
I will post a seperate thread for Technical and General Rules discussion after this Thursday.

pick
2010.03.23, 11:59 PM
Okay, I guess I will concede at this time and officially begin supporting Pedro's campaign :rolleyes:. Holy crap! After seeing all the time and effort he's put into our rules and scheduling, I've been left no choice :confused:. On a serious note, to say that Pedro has gone above and beyond is an understatement. We all owe Pedro a HUGE Thank You :D!! And, Pedro, don't start all that bull about how you didn't mind (I would have) and everybody helped (we didn't) ;). I know that you donated many hours to the cause that could have been spent with your family or doing other things, and it is greatly appreciated.

DANG! I hate that freakin' Pedro :mad:.

chad508
2010.03.24, 08:20 AM
are these rules to be the same implemented at the carolina cup in may? also the pan classes allow any 1/28 body, may want to change to any 1/28 pan body.
thanks

Daddy Rabbit
2010.03.24, 12:06 PM
I think you all should give Pedro one of those good old HSH group hugs.:)Good job.

pedrocamp
2010.03.24, 12:23 PM
Well, first off, I didn't mind and everbody helped... except JAMES! Don't worry, I'll take up the slack.
Actually it is self serving cause I would rather race than discuss rules and schedules while at the track so if we can get it settled here then it's more racing for me.

Now to Chad's question I came up with this:

I guess I should start with what is a "pan" body. I take it as a general term to mean a body in the style of a 1/10th or 1/12th scale scale pan, flat chassis RC car where most of the bodies resemble 1970's Can-Am cars, Lolas, Mclarens, Porsche, etc... As the Can-Am died (because of the tank-engined Porsche 917 basically) the cars morphed into Le Mans Prototype and IMSA/ALMS Prototype cars. Many of the manufacturers of the RC larger scale "pan" car bodies, 1/8th scale nitro included, produce the older Can-Am styled bodies. Some of them started production back in the time of the Can-Am. There has been a trend to more contemporary bodies in the larger scales, Prototype style bodies. This is true in slot car racing too. These contemporary bodies are the basis for our LM class but in fact they could also be called "pan" bodies.
So as far as we are concerned does "pan" body mean a body styled to resemble a 70's Can-Am car, as produced by Atomic and PN? If PN or Atomic produce a more modern Prototype style body and label it a "pan" body, since it is, is it legal for the "pan" class? Polycarbonate (Lexan) bodies are available for the 1/28h scale cars that resemble Can-Am and Prototype cars, are these legal for the "pan" class?
PN and Atomic both have "pan" classes that limit the body choice to their own bodies for their own series, understandably. We want to be more open, but do we allow only these two Can-Am bodies? Do we allow other bodies such as the Rony and LimmetEd polycarbonate bodies? Do we limit the class to Prototype and Can-Am style bodies made of styrene or polycarbonate? Do we just open this unlimited, no minimum weight class to whatever you want to run? That is what it says now. I would imagine most would choose a PN or Atomic body but a polycarbonate body might be a good choice as might a McLaren F1 GT. Our LM class is limited to the more contemporary cars as produced by Kyosho to provide some reasonable parity and purity of class. I suppose I am back to my original question, what is a "pan" class?

I suppose the most popular, go with the current trend approach would be to limit the class to PN or Atomic styrene "pan" bodies. What do you all think? This should be on the Tech and General Rules thread I haven't started yet.

The General Rules should stay the same for the Cup events at HSH.

hrdrvr
2010.03.24, 02:40 PM
Hmmm, It looks like you just stated a heavy case for why pan and LM bodies should be run together :D

Ive got a different concern though. It doesnt state anywhere that you can not open the motor cans. It does state that you have to use stock equivilent magnets and brushes. Im going to assume it is legal to open the can, so long as I keep the OM arm, and dont remove/rewind any wire. I will also assume its legal to shim the magnets, adjust the timing, and blance the arm.

kwsmith29
2010.03.24, 07:22 PM
Nope, PN cup 70 turn motor. You can change brushes, but no other components. All other parts must be stock.

On your other note, Pan cars are pan cars, The PN and Atomic bodies are not LM nor are they actual real race cars. There is a huge difference in the two types of bodies. The pan bodies are lighter, shorter wheel base, and handle much better. Not to mention ugly. Here at HSH we like things to be realistic, Thats why we run this class.:)

pedrocamp
2010.03.24, 08:53 PM
Please continue this discussion about the Tech Rules on the Rules Thread.


http://http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=379447&posted=1#post379447 (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=379447&posted=1#post379447)

Let's leave this thread for Schedule discussions.

kwsmith29
2010.03.26, 01:12 PM
Hello all, Things went great last night, the new format seems to be working. Done just a little after 8pm. I know we were a little on racers, but all went well.

Now with that said, we need to look at our more inexperienced racers. We have a bunch of good competive racers. Probley 10 to 15 guys capable of running fast competive laps. But, 4 to 7 guys with little experience and room to grow.

I saw something last night that worries me. Our B main had six racers in it. Three guys who could and have qualified and raced in the A main, and have in the past. The other three were off the pace quit a bit and got beat up, ran over, and out ran. No fault of theres, they need more track time. I saw some dejected racers.

I would like to propose if we have a short night like last night we go ahead and run a C qualifer and main for the rookies. They need track time in race mode where they don't get ran over and out ran so bad. This will help them get better and gain much needed confidence.

Tell me what you think.

Wade

Traveler
2010.03.26, 03:07 PM
Seems reasonable to me if time allows. It wasn't that long ago that I would have been a C class driver if we had a C class when I started. Running in the B class with Jay and James and others that were much faster than me was pretty intimidating at first. So much so that I can see it keeping some otherwise interested newbies from participating. So I'm with Wade on this if time allows.

One could argue that the track is available whenever the shop is open and new/inexperienced drivers could practice outside of racetimes and join in when they are ready. But running alone is not nearly as exciting or as good a learning experience as running with others.

kromie101
2010.03.26, 10:17 PM
what ,james in the B-MAIN:p:). you must of had a night like i did;).

pedrocamp
2010.03.27, 01:16 AM
We all have a bad one once in a while! Are you gonna be able to come race with us again kromie? We are runnin' like a well oiled elevator now. Looking forward to the 5 hour Beach run, will you be there for that?

pedrocamp
2010.03.27, 01:24 AM
As far as splitting Heats for rookies I guess we look at it night by night. If we have time and the guys in the B want to do it why not. I don't think we should be running too many 3 car Heats though. You do only get better by running with faster guys. I think Ray, Robbie and, I will go out on a limb and say Bob, are really improving.