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View Full Version : MC3 5-hour endurance race- suggestions welcome


Sinister_Y
2010.04.26, 02:45 PM
This thread is open to anyone who has either run or participated in a Mini-Z endurance race before to provide their comments &/or insights.

When: MC3 is planning on a 5 hour endurance event on Sat, May 29th.

Details: I was thinking that we'd do teams (maybe pairs? or even 3 people for each team?). Not sure on how long each driver needs to race for. Maybe switch after 30 minute interval? Suggestions?

Only thing you can change in the race is batteries unless you break. No motor or tire change.

Batteries must be NiMH batteries. Rubber tires only. Motor must bes: kyosho stock grey can, PNWC/ HFAY 70t motor or Kyosho XSpeed. Any Kyosho, TRP or Iwaver body okay. No Lexan body. Touring car only. Can use LeMans body/chassis with Kyosho LM tires if desired.

Must use same chassis the whole time. No subsitution chassis unless car/body is completely screwed/trashed.

Other ideas???

Sinister_Y
2010.04.30, 09:38 AM
draft rules below:

- teams of 2-3 racers
- each racer can only drive maximum 1 hour at a time
- only thing you can change in the race is batteries unless you break. No motor or tire change
- Batteries must be NiMH batteries
- Rubber tires only
- Motor must be: kyosho stock grey can, PNWC/ HFAY 70t motor or Kyosho XSpeed
- Body can be any Kyosho, TRP or Iwaver body. No Lexan body. Can use LeMans body/chassis with Kyosho LM tires if desired
- must use same chassis the whole time

Qualifying format TBD- however will be based on fastest lap and not on number of laps. Format will likely follow F1 style where there will be multiple sessions. Fastest from each session will move onto next session until final five is established.

Special layout for this race is attached.

EMU
2010.04.30, 02:26 PM
I would suggest making it mandatory 3 person teams. That leaves you one driver, pit man (rest period) and a marshall at all times. During pit-stops, the driver can rotate out with the marshall while the pit man does the pit-stop and then becomes the marshall. We did 3 person teams at our 6 hour enduro a couple weeks ago, and it worked out very well. A 2 person team will tire much faster, and you wont have marshall coverage while they are rotating positions or prepping the car...

Keeping track of laptimes is important, since that is usually what gives you the pit window. As soon as you see a noticable decrease in laptime, you should be prepared to pit... Also, some drivers may not have the stamina to do long runs, so they may want to pit in early. It is important that the entire team know what eachothers driving stamina is. After about 20 minutes, some drivers may start losing concentration, or vision (everything gets a little blurry after a long run). Some drivers would leave the drivers stand tearing after their run...

I would also suggest permitting tire/wheel changes. This takes time off the track, but if the tires are shot, then they are worth changing. Most should be able to run one set of tires for the entire event with a 70t/X-speed, but some may want to adjust the balance of the car between drivers with different styles. The penalty for making such changes is that you lose time in the pits.

I wouldnt rule the time that a driver can spend on the track at once, but have a minimum amount of time for each driver (must complete at least ~1 hour each), and permit the driver to run a double stint at the longest. If they can make 40 minutes on a pack, then they should be able to finish the stint instead of pulling in early due to a time constraint and hurt their pit strategy. If they are running 20 minute windows, then they can only run 40 minutes at once. It all depends on the driving style and car setup. X-Speed and stock motor cars should be able to coast more than the 70t cars, and save more battery. Endurance racing is all about saving battery while running similar laptimes to the people you are racing.

Does the body have to be the same? What timing system are you using? Driver A might like his body better than driver B. Even if they are the same model, there may be slight differences in ride height, even color.

I see that you have no Atomic motors listed. I would like to suggest the Atomic Race USA motor (bushing). It should be similar in performance to the X-Speed (a little more top end than the 70t, with less low end torque and drag brake), but has the screw holes...

Sinister_Y
2010.04.30, 02:54 PM
Excellent suggestions- Thanks :D

Good question regarding the body, but my assumption/rule was that everyone would use the same car (body and chassis).

We are using the Giro-Z hardware and Zround software for Mini-Z.

On another but related note, I thought of charging a little more for entry but letting everyone use my 2.4 Ghz Nascar rental cars for the race instead of their cars. That way, it would be more about strategy and driving skill not car setup, but not sure.

I may order a LM body for everyone to run on the Nascar chassis (MR-15). Hell, I could even use those tower bars I got from you a while back so that they are MR-02 width.

I thought most people would want to run their own cars. Like you say, most people have a particular setup, etc... which may vary greatly between drivers, but that is somewhat like a real endurance race. Seating position etc.. is a compromise between race drivers.

I'm sure with suggestions like yours (anyone else care to chime in????) we'll fine tune rules before we do the race.

Thanks again.

EMU
2010.04.30, 03:50 PM
I think the LM MR015 would be great :) Dont get the Porsche bodies, they wont fit the MR015. Sauber and Mazda will fit, although you will have to slightly shave the diffusors of them to clear the spur if you do not use an LM mount and diff. ASC Saubers have the side clips too low and raises the rear of the body a lot. When the clips are remounted (or mounted properly on a white body), the standard width spur rubs the body directly above the spur. I shaved mine down there after repositioning the side clips.

You could use the MR02 width conversion, with the Nascar wheels and LM tires. This would give you less scrub than the more offset LM wheels, and keep them more protected inside of the body to last the distance. If LM tires are a reqiurement, they should easily run that race distance without needing to be changed. They get better the longer they run :) It would be a very close class, judging on the first LM class race that we had at ActionRC lass week.

It sounds like you want to do as much of a spec race as you can. Every car has the same setup, but what will be permitted to be changed if your rentals are used? Springs, damper, differential? In the event of failures, where do the parts come from? Especially in regards to main chassis failure. Policy should be stated in advance of the race what is to be expected. Whether there will be a backup chassis available that is to the same spec.

There may be no big breaks, or there may be a few... Being prepared before the race for any outcome is important for an endurance racer, and more for the host. It is a long race, and having accurate data coming from the race announcer is important. Laptimes and gap mean everything. As a racer, you have to keep track of your gap vs pit strategy.

On a driver strategy note; as an early leader, you would want to keep your pit strategy similar with the other leaders, to keep pace with them and race head to head. If you are lower in the field, running longer stints at a slightly slower pace may be a better strategy. Keeping time in the pits down makes a huge difference in track position, so having everything organised before the car comes in to the box is very important.

Where will the pit stops occur? I recommend opposite the drivers on a pit lane down the back straght, and each team have their own pit box (tile) marked that they have to be in before they can be handled for a pit stop. This will not obstruct the drivers view, and will keep everything more organised in the pits. Pit box choice based on qualify results.

arch2b
2010.04.30, 04:59 PM
i like the idea of show up and race. infact, this is how i had originally proposed the dc endurance races to be however i just couldn't find the financing to pull it off. ideally, all you need is the entrance fee to cover the cost of the provided equipment. with teams of 3 or more and say 6 or more teams that becomes feasible, especially since your getting dealer pricing.
i thought i had a good set of rules for that format (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25428). the early rules provided the arr chassis and body with allowances for replacing tires (rubber only) and broken parts with like stock parts. you either have the replacement parts or go home early. i still hope to actually do this at some point. i would make the chassis a random lottery to remove any doubt on selection.


highly recommend a designated pit zone.

if you have monitors or projector, it would be very helpful for the drivers team to see this live race data. it' not always easy to find a race announcer but offering the data to be viewable by the team members would help alleviate that problem.

Sinister_Y
2010.05.19, 01:13 PM
Thanks to all those who provided feedback and suggestions.

Due to lack of interest, this event has been cancelled. We will hold a normal club race instead.