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View Full Version : MA-010 Vs MR03


Joel2010
2010.08.07, 09:01 PM
Hi,
Did anyone have test chassis MA-010 vs MR03 on RCP track...
Which is the best handling and lap-time ? :)

Tk-Joel

Action B
2010.08.07, 10:42 PM
Hi,
Did anyone have test chassis MA-010 vs MR03 on RCP track...
Which is the best handling and lap-time ? :)

Tk-Joel

Okay I don't know what anyone else is going to say but I'm going to just say it. The MR-03 is faster and easier to make fast. Now I'm sure someone will argue.

Of course, there are a couple new (and very expensive) parts that are unknown to how they will make the MA-010 perform and may change the game a bit.

PN double A arm suspension for front and
Kyosho double wishbone suspension for rear

EMU
2010.08.08, 01:13 AM
My 39t AWD finished 2nd to a 2wd ATM Stock-BB tonight, about 4 seconds behind. AWD in general needs more motor than 2wd to be equal in speed. Low grip tracks are where the AWD benefit more than 2wd. Once the 2wd cannot put down decent power, the AWD is still able to. I was testing an ATM and Eagle Racing SAS combination, so it could be faster yet... I set the fast lap, but flipped a couple times.

AWD doesnt have to be much more expensive than 2wd to be race ready. If I look at a general cost analysis, the MR03 chassis set is more expensive than the AWD chassis set, a good set of cost efficient bearings, diffs, swingshafts (if you have your diff tensioned right, the stock shafts work fine) and springs are all that are really needed to have a good base setup that can be raceworthy. I prefer the Kyosho diffs, but the 3Racing diffs work adequately with a little work. Kyosho require less work, if any.

If I were to choose one for all conditions, I would go with the AWD. If you were to choose one for low grip and/or drifting, AWD would be better.

Skv012a
2010.08.08, 01:33 AM
Not to mention if you try all-wide rim setup. 2WD simply doesn't benefit much from this, but AWD can eat corners full speed.

Felix2010
2010.08.08, 02:19 AM
Overall, AWDvs.MR03? From all of my reading about practice&race results for about 4 years now AWD vs. MR03(all MR/RWD chassis for that matter), and adding in personal results from my own chassis testing, and with NO $$ restrictions on parts-hopups: They are almost equal.:) And for that 1%-5% of the time where there is an advantage, overall, I'd say the AWD is the best chassis. Of course this is IMHO; And it's also IMHO there's too much cumulative subjective+objective data to compare on the subject for a direct answer.:) I'm really looking to hear from everyone here on this subject, because RWDvs.AWD is a very very interesting topic whenever it does pop-up from time-to-time.
I am personally still a believer in the MA-010.:D

color01
2010.08.08, 03:47 AM
On RCP, I don't feel that AWD will beat RWD for absolute fastest laptimes, even with the new developments coming out. Once you put a pan body on the MR-03, traction pretty much is not a limiting factor and the lighter weight and lower rolling resistance take care of the rest. Even with Autoscales it's not illegal or difficult to make a rear spoiler for the sufficient downforce needed. And I wouldn't even say that AWD is more consistent than MR-03 either, just because the AWD servo always has these little niggles that keep me from feeling 100% confident controlling the car. Meanwhile the MR-03's servo is much more precise and lets you hug the line as close as your skills will allow, with no wavering and no twitchiness. To me that is a paramount requirement for best "handling", and one where the AWD has not been able to even come close to the 03 yet.

z3zinho
2010.08.08, 05:17 AM
Another one voting for the AWD as the best overall car :D It is a difficult car to setup if you don't know what you are doing, and you have to maintain it carefully but in medium/low grip conditions it will kick a$$.

Although you have to keep in mind that it needs more motor then a 2wd to be competitive, so any spec motor class the 2wd is probably better...

Just so you can see some race results, look at the last worlds for example, 2wd and AWD cars were running pretty much the same times.
And some of the AWD were having trouble in the mains with too much traction, as in this big events usually as the track cleans up and the cars start to lay down some rubber traction will come up. And it's really important for anyone racing AWD's to take into account the changing track conditions as it can make or brake your race.

Action B
2010.08.09, 01:55 AM
Not to mention if you try all-wide rim setup. 2WD simply doesn't benefit much from this, but AWD can eat corners full speed.

Yeah, I'm still waiting to see that. Actually, I have a lot of money saying that noone is going to be competitive with this amazing "all wide" setup.

I agree with Color01, On RCP I find it hard to believe the AWD is better, even worse when you consider spec races.

I'll change my mind when I personally see an AWD doing work. Everywhere I go I never see any, and usually I was the only one driving one. If I do see another I haven't seen any competitive ones thats for darn sure. I raced in myrtle beach spring fling last year and I think I drove the only MA-010. I'm not a particularly fast racer so I didnt make the AWD chassis look any better.

Trust me, I'd love to believe the AWD is faster. I have three of those and only one MR-03. Maybe its just me that can't set it up but whatever, if they are comparable anyhow why pain yourself?

Sinister_Y
2010.08.09, 09:14 AM
I love the AWD, but my personal experience and all those at my track is that MR03 reigns supreme, at least in stock class. Like others have said, AWD needs more motor than MR03. This is really due to gearing issues not motor per se. More motor masks the real problem of gearing issues (insufficient gear ratios and drivetrain friction).

I've just made the switch to MR03 and it's unbelieveably easy to drive and very consistant. That is how I felt the AWD was- very easy to drive and consistant. Now, I would definately recommend MR03. no drivetrain issues (have had many with AWD, especially when running with 98mm config) and as noted, you'll at least have the same speed as all others running 2WD configs.

All that said though- I will be installing the new PN front end for my AWD to try out. I love the fact of the AWD since it's just like a little 1/10 touring car.
Best of luck on your choice.

You could always come visit my shop- I have both chassis for rental- you can try before you buy ; )

Old Crow
2010.08.09, 11:13 AM
MA-010 is my favorite platform. I'm not a top driver, but from what I've experienced and discussed with others, it's not currently the fastest platform.

Top three issues I always hear about with the AWD are 1) Motor 2)Gearing 3) Not easy to maintain and setup. Number 3 is what I may like the most about it, it's a challenge I enjoy. That said, the new PN A-Arm and Kyosho DWS(why are we expecting this to be any different then the SAS?) could help with the AWD and its drawbacks, but will still likely need an other Motor and Gearing, or a class all its own.

I've been discouraged about the fact that an AWD class has been eliminated from the PNWC. I got the impression talking to Philip at PN that with the advent of the PN A-Arm and other coming developments(one being a PN A-Arm rear, all done, just not in production), we could see it back again, I hope so, this platform is the reason I stay in this hobby.

Tjay
2010.08.09, 11:46 AM
sorry didn't read the entire post. I just saw the AWD vs 2wd... :D

For me at least...
AWD is the best and fastest in the field but you MUST set it up right. AWD will pick up its speed from the get go & it's fast infield. Again, it has to be set up perfectly.

It took me a long time learning and fine tuning an AWD and also driving is very different than a 2WD. You almost want to be aggressive at all times when driving an AWD.

AWD= very high maintainance race car and expensive to just play with!
2WD= you can play all day for almost 2 weeks with the same tires etc, and its still good for an event race without touching the car's setup.

I like to spend time on the track rather than on the pit, so I gave up my AWD...

edit: Oh yeah, MOD only not Stock. Stock PN70 is too slow for AWD racing. Stick to 2WD for that class.

Cherub1m
2010.08.09, 03:47 PM
You got to love it, the old question, AWD vs 2WD well, I love the AWD, but from my experience you need a few things for the AWD to shine.

1) Need lots of POWER (run mod)
2) need a either a very small track or a track with lots of short straights and lots of turns (very technical track)
3) RCP has so much traction that the AWD is at a disadvantage there. Has traction goes up the 2WD has the advantage as traction goes down the AWD has the advantage.
4) A carpet track will favor the AWD.

I just got the PN AWD Double A-Arm system. Man that is one awsome system!!!. Will it help? I am sure it will help. Will it be enough? I don't know yet, but I plan on testing when I get a chance. I like to run the stock AWD at around 180 to 185 grams. With just the PN A-Arm and many light weight components my AWD with the PN system my AWD weight 190 grams. Adding the first gen. Atomic SAS to the AWD weight goes up to 195 grams. Many have told me that weight should not be a factor, well I hope so. Comparing my F1 which is over 200 grams and I am able to hit the same lap times with it has the 02/03. Maybe that will be the same for the AWD.

Kamer
2010.08.09, 08:53 PM
From the experience i got in the last couple Year's driving Mr-02/03 and AWD i definitive know the AWD is faster no matter the surface.
The main reason why so many believe the Mr-02 is faster, comes from the hard work you have on the AWD to really make it fast, and let's face it 80% of the Racer are Driver and not Mechanics when it comes to the fine tuning on the
SetUp.