Mantis Tri-link front suspension

[MantisMMA]

i have been working on this system for a while now and it has gone from CAD to reality! granted this is basically just a mock up as i have discovered that working with links is very difficult. it is the same type of system as the MR03 but the kit allows for caster adjustment along with the static 1 degree of camber. i am still playing with the roll center geometry. for now it uses the stock knuckles (Which are very sloppy) and the stock MR02 kingpins. it is going to be a pricey unit, it will come with an entire carbon subplate that takes place of the barge board and i think i am going to make some accurate tie rods that will be included with the kit.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/muscletexx/DSC_0073.jpg

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/muscletexx/DSC_0072.jpg

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/muscletexx/DSC_0071.jpg

[EMU]

Looking good :)

[J-Milz]

Looks good! Now I see why you had me on hold. :D. Any hopes of making a longer suspension arm setup for a AWD based on the current suspension systems out now?

[MantisMMA]

Looks good! Now I see why you had me on hold. :D. Any hopes of making a longer suspension arm setup for a AWD based on the current suspension systems out now?


that would be a huge and expensive venture mainly because of the parts involved and not much demand for it, look how expensive the DWS is and that is with PN having the ability to make it cheap! if i made that it would be at least double the amount! probably be better off making and entire car!

[lfisminiz]

Marcus, looks impressive so far....:)

[Cherub1m]

F1 parts are looking very impressive Marcus. Keep them coming:D

[MantisMMA]

OK guys and gals the front end is complete and i am VERY proud of the results! car is ultra smooth and precise, front of the car is lower for F1 type CG!! And it just looks awesome (of course i am biased!)! The "MultiFlex" feature is incredible and makes very noticeable difference. Pre orders will be available over the weekend and unfortunately i will be limited by the amount of hiems i can get a hold of so dont wait too long to order! Well here is a pic of it and a link to the website for better explanation and close-ups.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/muscletexx/DSC_0087.jpg

http://www.Mantisworx.com

[Rune]

Wow!
That looks fantastic!

If I only could convince the guys to some F1 action.

[arch2b]

my biggest concern, how durable is this?

[MantisMMA]

i have been driving it around for two days and nothing has happened yet. the bottom arms are very solid and mounted very low, they are not gonna break in any situation (on RCP!) The front links are minimally exposed. i dont foresee too many breakages issues. The heim joints will never break as they will pop off before they break. All of the parts are interchangeable and will be available to purchase if needed. It is F1 and we are trying to go fast! every week i race 10th scale and they break everything all of the time, i have spent more money on my Cyclone in a month than i have in years on mini-z!

[MantisMMA]

Wow!
That looks fantastic!

If I only could convince the guys to some F1 action.

You need to set one up to get the ball rolling! once they see that they are just as fast as the rest of the cars, they will buy one! F1 has had such a bad rap over the years and most of those problems have been resolved.

[arch2b]

understood but if the choice is between going fast and continually replacing parts and moderately fast sticking with the stock parts, i'll stick with stock parts. i'm not mat, i'm not in contention for anything but fun and got out of awd due to it being a money pit. i won't put my f1 into that same position.

that being said, it does look very impressive!:cool: i do look forward to seeing this in person at some point, possibly at the als charity race.

[MantisMMA]

dont assume that you will be continously replacing parts. i dont design things to break easily and i dont believe anything will break, the heim joints will pop out before anything breaks, this is why i use the joints instead of designing a solid A arm. i have been engineering my entire adult life, this is not my first rodeo!! no with that being said i am sure if you drive off of a table or run into the kitchen wall you may have issues but all of my products are designed for racing and as long as you are on RCP your not gonna have any problems.

[EMU]

I would much rather buy and replace a small arm link than a chassis when there is front end damage. The unit is modular, and mount to the bottom of the chassis where the barge board would mount. I dont have one, yet, but judging by the pictures on MantisWorx.com, it looks like it would be durable, and the fact that the arms are not adjustable, makes them stronger. Behind the MantisWorx front bumper, the front end is well covered, so there will be very little damage on a front end collision. I had been using the stock knuckles and tie rod on one of my F1's for a while without any damage. The Kyosho stock bumper leaves a lot of room for the wheel edge to clip the rails, and thats where most damage occurs.

I think it will be a robust system, and am first on the preorder list. (That is if Matt didn't beat me to it).

Click for full size:
http://www.mantisworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC_0074-150x150.jpg (http://www.mantisworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC_0074.jpg)

http://www.mantisworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC_0077-150x150.jpg (http://www.mantisworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC_0077.jpg)

http://www.mantisworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC_0076-150x150.jpg (http://www.mantisworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC_0076.jpg)

Seeing parts like this for the F1 chassis almost makes me want to cry. Im so happy :) Many thought the F1 was on the verge of extinction, I think these parts have made a huge increase in the competitiveness of the class. It has closed the gap between the the racers. Setup is much more like a standard 2wd than the complicated F1 that is in the past.

[arch2b]

i think my comments may have been taken too far, i mearly asked the question and responded. mantis addressed the question more than enough to satisfy my initial concerns.

my follow up was in response to this particular bit It is F1 and we are trying to go fast! every week i race 10th scale and they break everything all of the time, i have spent more money on my Cyclone in a month than i have in years on mini-z! again, to which mantis addressed the question more than enough to satisfy my concerns.

if there is any lingering doubt, i'm happy with the design and responses provided. again, i look forward to seeing this in person :)

[MantisMMA]

no worries Arch! computers are only 2d!

[arch2b]

btw, the pictures on your website do a much better job of showing off the solid design and construction of this assembled system. thanks to emu for posting these here.

[EMU]

Not trying to jump on you arch, just explaining in further detail about the product :) I want to debut it at the ALS race... I dont know if there will be other F1 events before that....

Theoretically, you could have 2 assembled front ends for different conditions. This would make it much easier to compare head to head what the changes do to the car... I am going this approach, on one car until I fully understand what changes work for my driving and track conditions.

[arch2b]

yeah, i suspected you or mat would have this but i have not heard if mat will attend als? either way i am eager to see it in person and in action. unfortunately for me, f1 is going to be much more competitive this year. i at least had a chance last year:p

thank you for sharing the details. details always help.

[MantisMMA]

PRE ORDER TIME!

http://shop.mantisworx.com/F1-TRI-LINK-FRONT-SUSPENSION-MWX-TLS-001.htm

ALSO FOR THE F1 CANTILEVER DDS:

http://shop.mantisworx.com/CANTILEVER-F1-DDS-SYSTEM-MW-F1DDS-001.htm

[MantisMMA]

Final testing is done for the tri link! now i have to track down the links and balls (from the far corners of the world!!) i have a good basic setup to start out with, as time goes on the setups will get better. I still need to do some tie rod test to see what it likes as far as that goes.I will post some pix over the weekend.

[MantisMMA]

link and balls should be in anyday now so these will hopefully ship around friday!

[EMU]

Im getting excited...

[lfisminiz]

Me too!!!!!!!!!:):):)

[MantisMMA]

i have also added a "tweek" screw to get rid of the tweek issue in the OEM chassis!

[MantisMMA]

well crap balls!! i order tth links on the 7th of sept and i still dont have them and the place is on the same state so they should have been here. They are not answering the phone either. i just emailed them with my concerns so hopefully i get a response from them. i ordered all they had in stock so its alot of money, i dont want to order from another place just yet................UUUUUUUUUUGGGGHHHH:mad:

[wrcsti]

What are the advantages to the cantilever suspension? Does it only work with a T plate?

[MantisMMA]

the main advantage is consistant damping throughout side to side stroke and the ability to seperate fore and aft from left to right. this allows you to run only enough damping to the shock to dampen the shock. it is most noticeable on bumpy track as the rear end stays planted through the turns. i have not tried to use it with sideplates but i dont think it will work very well because there is not a true pivot point with them in any direction.

[MantisMMA]

tri-link preorders will FINALLY ship out fri/mon!! i cant ship them in normal envelopes and my postal store is out of flatrate boxes so i am lookin around for boxes today!!! sorry for the delay, i will post installation instructions on the website over the weekend.

[lfisminiz]

Thanks, Marcus.:)

[EMU]

Yes!!! Thanks ;)

[MantisMMA]

EMU i can only get you one of your three in until the next wave of Balls come in but by then i will have some option parts out for them so it works out ok . there will be soft arms and some high roll center mounts, also thin T plates are on the way too! i just got a HUUUUUGE order from a company in Japan that is now my euro distributer so i have also been trying to fill that order too. busy busy busy AND i am also in negotiations to open up a hobby shop/indoor racing facility which is why i wont be able to make it to the worlds this year

[MantisMMA]

Ok guys sorry for the delay and absence, i have been swamped with the opening of my new hobby shop and am a bit stretched out! most oeveryone should have recieved their tri-link now and it has been my intention to get some general instructions up for the last two weeks! luckily it is a pretty straight forward install.
1. completely grind off the OEM arms flush with the chassis
2. install the arms onto the barge plate ( i suggest using a .5mm shim in between the arm and the barge plate at the front, this gives more castor) use the supplied #1 self threading screws, be careful not to overtighten them.
3. install the tweak screw on the rightside (passenger side) as this is where 99% of the tweak is, the supplied screw should be perfect for eliminateing the tweak.
4. the Tri-link will only work with Mantisworx V1 or V2 bumpers
5. now grind the main bumper plate so that it will fit in between the arms on the barge plate about 11 or 12mm
6.now place the bumper where is it supposed to go and then put the assembly on top of it and loosely screw everything down (dont tighten completely until the knuckles and tires have been installed so that you can adjust tweak)
7.now install kingpins and knuckles and your choice in springs ( i have found that the harder the springs the better)
8.once you have the tires installed set the car down on a flat surface and check for tweak ( not all chassis are tweaked and you may not need the tweak screw or you may not need it to be screwed down all the way)one of my chassis was tweaked .5mm, and the other had none. its kind of a guessing game as you will have to keep trying different settings for the tweak screw. remember that you are adding tweak to eliminate tweak so the barge plate is not goign to fit flush on the side with the screw. if you tighten down all of the OEM screws super tight you will not allow the tweak to occur so only tighten them enough to keep them from coming loose.

TIPS: this system can give you massive amounts of steering , so much that it can and will overwhelm the rear traction so there are two different trains of though on how to balance it you can go soft springs /hard tires or vice versa, it all depends on the track you are running on and driving style and dont be afraid to use your EPA adjustments! i am still working on a rear system that will get more traction but it just takes time!
thanx for your orders and please be vocal with your setups!

[EMU]

I just got mine in :) Im super stoked. I wont have time today to do the complete install, but should be able to have it done tomorrow.

[lfisminiz]

Hope to start mine this weekend.:)

[cosmicsoul]

Exciting news about the parts and even more exciting about the hobby shop!

Hope the best for you and your new endevor! Hate you won't be at the worlds:(.

See you around some where sometime I am sure. May be you will have a big race in TX once things start rolling.

Later,

[VAzRACER]

This front end is sweet!

I got mine last week and installed it a few days later. It was an easy install, a little bit of cutting and your done. My first impression is that it is alot stronger than I thought it would be and its very smooth.

After driving with it I'm hooked, tons of steering and with a little Kyosho 5k grease it was very stable. I was using K30 fronts and it was a little twitchy but still drivable. Maybe a harder tire and softer spring up front might work well. I installed the F1 king pins with yellow pn 03 low down springs.

I havent added the extra shims for more caster but plan on doing that and adding the tweak screw this weekend. I'm also going to get some lap times compared to my other F1 with a standard front end.

[lfisminiz]

This front end is sweet!

I got mine last week and installed it a few days later. It was an easy install, a little bit of cutting and your done. My first impression is that it is alot stronger than I thought it would be and its very smooth.

After driving with it I'm hooked, tons of steering and with a little Kyosho 5k grease it was very stable. I was using K30 fronts and it was a little twitchy but still drivable. Maybe a harder tire and softer spring up front might work well. I installed the F1 king pins with yellow pn 03 low down springs.

I havent added the extra shims for more caster but plan on doing that and adding the tweak screw this weekend. I'm also going to get some lap times compared to my other F1 with a standard front end.

So far im thinking the same. I did add spacers for caster. Have the same springs etc....so far so good.:)