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color01
2010.09.01, 02:00 AM
Sometimes known as "crush washers" in larger scales, front wheel bearing spacers are one way to significantly improve the precision of a RWD Mini-Z's front suspension. TJ Macabuhay introduced these to us a bit over a year ago, as far as I remember, but his spacers were designed originally just for the PN Machine Cut Delrin 20mm Dish wheels. With more good competition-caliber wheel options for Mini-Z than ever before, I thought it would be a good idea to compile some shim/washer combinations that work properly as front wheel bearing spacers.

... Little did I know that TJ's spacers are so good, that they will work on their own or with the help of a PN alu 0.2mm shim to fit nearly all popular brands and designs of MR01/015/02/03 wheels. I do NOT recommend substituting TJ's spacers for anything aluminum, as steel is harder and takes a lot more force to crush. Absolutely DO NOT use plastic washers for this application, they'll get crushed the first time you torque down the wheel nuts, and you'll end up damaging your front wheel bearings. The PN alu shim I use simply because there is currently no precision steel spacer that is 0.2mm thicker than TJ's. It will eventually get flattened, at which point it is important to replace it with a fresh 0.2mm shim.


So, first the list of wheels that work with a single steel spacer (TJ's FPR Front Wheel Bearing Spacer):
http://a.imageshack.us/img521/3748/img0379al.jpg

PN Machine Cut Delrin 20mm Dish, 19mm Dish
http://a.imageshack.us/img191/7412/img0373rl.jpg
Fits perfectly, no problems. This is the original intended application, obviously it works! :) The newer 19mm Delrin dishes also fit this spacer flawlessly.

Almost ALL Kyosho MR01/015/02/03 wheels
http://a.imageshack.us/img816/1610/img0376o.jpg
I have tried the single steel spacer with all the Kyosho wheels that I have, it has worked every single time. The FPR steel spacer is the ONLY one that will successfully work as a front wheel bearing spacer in Kyosho rims, because it is the only one with a small enough outer diameter not to interfere with the wheel hub itself. Sometimes you need to ream out the hub "flange" a little bit so that the FPR spacer does not rub.

Square NA/NB/NC/WA/WB/WC Series wheels
http://a.imageshack.us/img163/4781/img0377i.jpg
Fits perfectly. As far as I know, the new A/B/C series of Square wheels have the same hub dimensions. I unfortunately cannot confirm this for the older series of wheels (SKM-007 and SKM-107 series) but I believe that Square should also keep their hub dimensions constant.


Now, the list of wheels that work with one steel spacer + one PN alu 0.2mm shim:
http://a.imageshack.us/img52/5448/img0379b.jpg

Atomic Dish Rims*
http://a.imageshack.us/img444/2852/img0375j.jpg
Fits perfectly, no problems. I suspect the T.S. series wheels should have the same hub spacing, so you can do the same for T.S. wheels.
Edit: Seems that you might not need the PN 0.2mm shim for certain brands of ball bearings. For Reflex bearings, however, you definitely need it.

PN Spoked Rims
http://a.imageshack.us/img401/737/img0374yi.jpg
Fits perfectly, lots of hub clearance with the FPR spacer. As a side note, always watch out for cracking with PN spoked rims. They're light though!

MantisWorx wheels
http://a.imageshack.us/img15/9592/img0372ti.jpg
Fits perfectly, just be careful removing the bearings from these wheels because you pretty much have to twist it out of the hub (no slots, can't reach pliers around the bearing to tug it out).

Atomic S6 wheels
http://a.imageshack.us/img299/4852/img0371e.jpg
Fits perfectly, no problems.

Gandini (GRP) Racing Foams
(no picture)
Hub and PN 0.2mm shim may rub. Can either ream out the hub flange or try switching the positions of the FPR spacer and PN shim and see if you get lucky.



What wheels I'm missing data for:

Atomic T.S. series
Should honestly be the same as Atomic Dish, but I don't have any personally.

Older Square wheels
Should be the same as newer Square wheels, however I sold my old Inch-Ups.

Older Kyosho wheels
Perhaps the molds have changed? Who knows.

Kyosho aluminum wheels
No data or references to guess with.

R246 aluminum wheels
No data or references to guess with.

3racing aluminum wheels
No data or references to guess with.

TaGu aluminum wheels
No data or references to guess with.


That's all that I know, hopefully you guys and gals can help or I can scrape together enough money to buy a set each of the wheels I'm missing!

SAGISI
2010.09.01, 02:24 AM
FPR spacers are ran in all my cars! You never need to worry about over tightening the wheels. These spacers also are useful in other parts of the car (under knuckles, inside top spring when running reflex kingpins for down stop, and general spacing on the mini z) hopefully this thread brings more interests to these spacers so Ray L. Will start making them again. I run atomic dish wheels with just fpr spacer and no pn shim. Just face the race of the bearing (pn) that's sticks out the furthest towards the center of the wheel. If ran with reflex bearings you may need to use pn spacer.

SAGISI
2010.09.01, 02:27 AM
Color01- Awesome write up!!!

Also everyone message Tjay to come back to the mini z scene

dvsstrike
2010.09.01, 06:15 AM
why did he leave?

SAGISI
2010.09.01, 12:00 PM
why did he leave?

Im not to sure why he left.. I know he comes on the forums quite frequentlly though. I think he's into mountain biking now, but he stops by FPR every now and then.. Maybe if an MR04 comes out then he will come back. He was hands down the best driver ive seen and the best driver to practice, train, and learn with.

herman
2010.09.01, 10:20 PM
can somebody post some installation pics? like where does it exactly go?

EMU
2010.09.01, 10:34 PM
It goes between the bearings on the knuckle axle. Basically allowing you to tighten up the wheelnut a little more than you would be able to without the spacer. It gets rid of slop, and the bearing wont distort from the pressure applied.

Square has gone about this a different way using a 3mm inside diameter bearing with a sleeve that goes over the knuckle axle. I think the FPR spacer works better, although I wish it was a hair wider as it doesnt work perfectly with the Atomic or Mantis wheels, and thats mostly what I use.

Felix2010
2010.09.01, 11:19 PM
God info color0 as always.:)

TJ - Come Back.:D

herman
2010.09.01, 11:34 PM
thanks emu for the reply...

hmm... so it's the spacer then inner bearing, rim, outer bearing then nut?
or is it inner bearing, spacer, rim, outer bearing, nut?
or is it inner bearing, rim, spacer, outer bearing, nut?

thanks again... any pics? apologize for being the oldest noob around here... :D

yasuji
2010.09.02, 12:15 AM
thanks emu for the reply...

hmm... so it's the spacer then inner bearing, rim, outer bearing then nut?
or is it inner bearing, spacer, rim, outer bearing, nut?
or is it inner bearing, rim, spacer, outer bearing, nut?

thanks again... any pics? apologize for being the oldest noob around here... :D

inner bearing, spacer, rim, outer bearing, nut?
inner bearing, rim, spacer, outer bearing, nut?
same same.....:D
it sits in between the inner and outer bearings , in side the hub of the front wheel...in most other applications it is called a wheel bearing spacer
so u can tighten the axle without over-side-loading the bearing causing it to lock up

color01
2010.09.02, 03:55 AM
[Rim][Rim][Rim][Rim][Rim]
[Rim]
[Rim]
[Rim]


[Bearing][Spacer][Bearing]


[Rim]
[Rim]
[Rim]
[Rim][Rim][Rim][Rim][Rim]

Quickest semi-graphical representation I could come up with, Herman. :) That's how these are installed, and also why they allow you to crank down on the nuts -- you get to avoid putting any strain on the balls inside the ball bearings themselves.

pfcparts
2010.09.02, 02:51 PM
E,

I think you meant squat. I've been using the Squat CS464?
set on all of my 03s that don't use PN knuckles. (the brass
sleeves don't fit PN) I actually like the larger inner bores as I
feel they spin better... That and when these run their life,
I can just order a bunch of the same bearings in bulk lol. :)

They also make brass spacers as well for even finer
adjustment.

Definitely a good informative write up c0.


parts

EMU
2010.09.02, 03:39 PM
Your right, Squat...

herman
2010.09.02, 10:10 PM
aahhh so desu ne.....

thanks very mucho emu, yasuji and color01... was just holding a rim just now... color01's graphic made it very very clear...

basically it's a washer with an outer diameter that just fits right in the center hole of the rim and inner diameter that of the front axle, being sandwiched by the inner & outer bearings...

thanks again for all your efforts to educate me... :D
appreciation follows... (imagine me bowing down to mini-z masters emu, yasuji and color01) :D :D

i usually made plastic washers waaay back to take up any slop... thinking about it, tj's solution is a whole lot better though... citing the benefits below

Basically allowing you to tighten up the wheelnut a little more than you would be able to without the spacer. It gets rid of slop, and the bearing wont distort from the pressure applied.
so u can tighten the axle without over-side-loading the bearing causing it to lock up

hobbycar
2010.09.02, 11:51 PM
Thanks Color01 for the writeup.

I'm definitely interested in getting these FPR Front Wheel Bearing Spacers (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=19757) now that I'm running my 2WD again in our LM class (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=391496#post391496). Unfortunately the Shop is showing them out of stock :(

Semi-Related: in researching these Fast Pace Racing Front Wheel Bearing Spacers I stumbled upon the Fast Pace Racing Blog Post on the PN Tri Damper System (http://www.fastpaceracing.com/content/pn-tri-damper-system). Very helpful article.

Thanks Tjay! I hope you come back/stay in the Mini-Z scene.

-hobbycar

Tjay
2010.09.03, 05:43 PM
One day a good friend of mine came by the store and I showed him an idea for mini-z and we started brain storming on what else we can do to make this car even better and have the part out in such a short period of time. Ray Leung, had thought of this idea and prototype was completed in a few days and contracted another company to mass produce this product. It was the easiest part to make but definitely wasn't the cheapest as it was made in USA. We weren't making money off of this but we used is as an advertisement. If anyone comes and asked me at the time, I was handing them these spacers like a candy cane at some Japanese Restaurant.

As always, Great write up Brian (color0) and thanks for the kinds words folks.

*edit: Oh btw, SAGISI, Now I know why I be getting emails and msgs on my FB. Good one man. lol

SAGISI
2010.09.03, 06:41 PM
Tjay- Well it worked right?! I heard your coming out to race with us tonight and that you already reserved your pit spot. Good luck in the B main! haha jp.

EMU
2010.09.04, 03:31 PM
Nice to see you back on here TJ :)

dgomes
2011.09.09, 09:24 PM
Does anyone know if these are still available and where I can purchase them?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Best regards,
Daniel

Davey G
2011.09.10, 03:05 PM
I use the Slick7 .060 slot car spacer.

color01
2011.09.10, 03:23 PM
Sorry Davey, can you get us a link? Quick Google search turned up nothing, but I'm interested in picking a few of these up to try them against Atomic and PN rims.

skyler
2011.09.10, 07:16 PM
Sorry Davey, can you get us a link? Quick Google search turned up nothing, but I'm interested in picking a few of these up to try them against Atomic and PN rims.

http://www.shopatron.com/products/productdetail/ARMATURE+SPACER%2C+MACHINED+-+.062+THICK/part_number=S7-521/168.0.1.1.1111.457.1115.0.0?pp=12& Try this.

color01
2011.09.10, 11:04 PM
Really? 1.5mm thick? I was thinking something on the order of 0.7mm would be more appropriate... :confused:

dgomes
2011.09.11, 02:34 PM
It seems they have few other options as well:

http://www.shopatron.com/products/category/Spacers/168.0.1.1.1111.457.1115.0.0?

How thick is the Fast Pace Racing ones?

color01
2011.09.11, 06:21 PM
Somewhere between 0.5-0.6 I think? They're perfect for Kyosho wheels, which IIRC take a spacer in that range. Atomic wheels need an extra 0.2mm in my experience, which is why 0.7mm might be just what I'm looking for.

LED
2011.09.12, 01:18 AM
I'm not realy following this. Are you guys replacing 1 bearing with the washer?

color01
2011.09.12, 02:18 AM
I drew a diagram somewhere before, basically, this washer goes between the two front wheel bearings.

[bearing][washer][bearing]

That way, you can tighten the nut all the way without putting any pressure on the bearings' internal ball races themselves. Am I making any sense? :o

LED
2011.09.12, 04:05 AM
Do you then cut out the plastic of the rims?

GIHOSU
2011.09.12, 08:37 AM
The FPR spacers are 1.1mm wide, a little over 2mm ID and a little under 4mm OD.

I have a machine shop friend who I spoke to about something like this and he said it would be an easy run for him. I am surprised no one has made more.

rajiex
2011.09.12, 09:51 AM
The FPR spacers are 1.1mm wide, a little under 2mm ID and a little under 4mm OD.

I have a machine shop friend who I spoke to about something like this and he said it would be an easy run for him. I am surprised no one has made more.

Shafiq,

If you get any made, let me know.

dgomes
2011.09.12, 11:32 AM
The FPR spacers are 1.1mm wide, a little over 2mm ID and a little under 4mm OD.

I have a machine shop friend who I spoke to about something like this and he said it would be an easy run for him. I am surprised no one has made more.

Me too!

I would take about 8 pairs.

Thank you!

Kevin S.
2011.09.12, 12:14 PM
The FPR spacers are 1.1mm wide, a little over 2mm ID and a little under 4mm OD.

I have a machine shop friend who I spoke to about something like this and he said it would be an easy run for him. I am surprised no one has made more.

Hey Shafiq,
If you have these prodiced, I will take quite a few pairs as well. Let me know. Thank you.

color01
2011.09.12, 02:22 PM
LED -- typically the OD of the shim is small enough that you don't have to cut plastic. That said, sometimes you need to ream out the Kyosho wheel hubs (especially older Kyosho wheels) a tiny bit for clearance.



Shafiq -- Oops, looks like my eyeballing was off. :o I think the community would definitely love to have another run of these -- as well as a 0.25mm thicker version for PN and Atomic plastic wheels. I would definitely take at least four pairs of each.

Let it be done, please! :eek:

EMU
2011.09.12, 04:11 PM
I would definitely take about 10 of each if both sizes are made ;)

lfisminiz
2011.09.12, 06:30 PM
Count me in!!:)

glider
2011.09.15, 10:01 PM
I would like these as well. Because these need to be sized nearly perfectly and there is variation between rims I think one frequently needs to adjust them with additional spacers. For Atomic S6 rims I have noted usually needing 1.2mm. So maybe slightly over width would be best to accommodate the outer fringe odd rims. I do not believe going over by 0.1mm presents any problem whereas going under will cause bearing binding.

One option available now is to get the Reflex Racing 1.0 spacers made of aluminum, and put steel 0.1 or 0.2 mm spacers on each side. Not as clean but an option I have used successfully.

http://www.reflexracing.net/Reflex-Racing-MR-03-M2-King-Pin-Shims-3-pairs_p_90.html

Skv012a
2011.12.02, 01:17 AM
Whoooooaaaa, you can jam the alum. PN spacers in there? Must go, must try!