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ruf
2010.09.16, 08:33 PM
Back in 2005, we cut up an AutoScale box and made wings for our cars. They were lighter, more durable, and provided more downforce than their plastic counterparts.

Welcome to 2010. If you haven't been following our blog, maybe you should... ;)
http://reflexracing.blogspot.com/2010/08/reflex-flight-910-preparing-for-takeoff.html

JeremyC
2010.09.16, 08:52 PM
Back in 2005, we cut up an AutoScale box and made wings for our cars. They were lighter, more durable, and provided more downforce than their plastic counterparts.

Welcome to 2010. If you haven't been following our blog, maybe you should... ;)
http://reflexracing.blogspot.com/2010/08/reflex-flight-910-preparing-for-takeoff.html

That is a brilliant idea. Are they up for order?

EMU
2010.09.16, 08:58 PM
Ive been waiting for these for years. Im still cutting up Autoscale cases for wings...

ruf
2010.09.16, 09:42 PM
Thanks guys! Orders will probably go up next week. I want to try them out first, and make sure we don't need to make any tweaks.

These have been a long time coming. We started and stopped this project twice with two different vendors. Decided to just do it ourselves after no one could deliver what we were asking for.

herman
2010.09.16, 10:54 PM
hmm... is this a one wing fits all kinda thing? or do you have different models for the different bodies? i couldn't tell from the pics... any pricing yet?

machgo5go
2010.09.16, 11:13 PM
Ive been waiting for these for years. Im still cutting up Autoscale cases for wings... I still love to make wings from Autoscale case but if these finally become a product, I don't mine trying it out.

JeremyC
2010.09.16, 11:49 PM
Thanks guys! Orders will probably go up next week. I want to try them out first, and make sure we don't need to make any tweaks.

These have been a long time coming. We started and stopped this project twice with two different vendors. Decided to just do it ourselves after no one could deliver what we were asking for.

I am planning an order from you guys anyway. I'll absolutely grab a couple of these too.

ruf
2010.09.17, 11:49 AM
This single wing is designed for most popular racing bodies and to fit under the dimensional rules of the current sanctioning bodies.

JuniorWKR
2010.09.17, 12:41 PM
love the idea of the wing... great call... just wondering.. i have always felt that a wider wing would give you more stability on a large flowy high speed track and a narrower wing would allow for more rotation on a tighter more technical layout... any chance you guys will be making a version II wing for the more technical layouts?...

CristianTabush
2010.09.17, 01:23 PM
I am sure that if these become popular, we will offer different types in the near future. At least this is our intention. For the time being though, 1 type will have to do :P

Anyways, if you require more rotation, something very easy to do is cut the wing down shorter or cut the chord length down as well. This makes a much bigger difference than the actual width of the wing.

Funny thing is I actually do the opposite. On shorter technical courses I run bigger wings to get more grip at low speeds. On longer courses I tend to run smaller wings to get better top speed. The higher speeds provide the smaller wing with more down force than on a slow track.

JuniorWKR
2010.09.17, 02:57 PM
I am sure that if these become popular, we will offer different types in the near future. At least this is our intention. For the time being though, 1 type will have to do :P

Anyways, if you require more rotation, something very easy to do is cut the wing down shorter or cut the chord length down as well. This makes a much bigger difference than the actual width of the wing.

Funny thing is I actually do the opposite. On shorter technical courses I run bigger wings to get more grip at low speeds. On longer courses I tend to run smaller wings to get better top speed. The higher speeds provide the smaller wing with more down force than on a slow track.

i understand what you are saying and maybe i expalined myself incorrectly... i change the width of the wing not the overall size of the wing flap and the sides... i leave it longer left to right on large tracks and shorter left to right on tighter tracks... the wing flap and sides alwyas stay the same... i will adjust the angle of the wing flap depending on the amount of rear traction that i need... or take away from the front if needed...

JuniorWKR
2010.09.17, 02:58 PM
non the less.. awesome job on the wing...

CristianTabush
2010.09.17, 04:42 PM
Understood.

I am just saying that the same effect can be achieved with a shorter chord and/ or trailing edge. This is how it is adjusted on the larger scale cars, including full size ones.

ruf
2010.09.21, 09:48 PM
Got the first sample cut and mounted. Looks and fits awesome! More pics on the blog!
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30549&d=1285135556

JeremyC
2010.09.21, 10:01 PM
Got the first sample cut and mounted. Looks and fits awesome! More pics on the blog!

That wing is amazing. Although I think your body is a riding a little low :)

ruf
2010.09.21, 10:54 PM
Haha! Oops, I just threw it on a chassis with no top cover on, so no suspension... :p

JeremyC
2010.09.21, 11:28 PM
Haha! Oops, I just threw it on a chassis with no top cover on, so no suspension... :p

Thats cool. Either way I'm going to order a couple of those wings as soon as they are on your site.

ruf
2010.09.22, 01:09 AM
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30551&d=1285135654

Kevin S.
2010.09.22, 03:25 PM
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30551&d=1285135654

Just pre-ordered mine...Can't wait to get them :D:D:D

EMU
2010.09.22, 04:19 PM
I will preorder mine tonight ;)

ruf
2010.09.22, 05:26 PM
Yup, pre-orders are up! Pricing is $5.99. Thanks for the support!

EMU - you have a proto on the way. Welcome to the team! ;) Rougher than the production units, but run it and let us know what you think!

EMU
2010.09.22, 05:58 PM
Im super stoked :D

ruf
2010.09.24, 11:49 AM
Holy crap! First run is almost sold out! I will try to bump the quantity, but if you want one in the next couple weeks, order now!

doug01n
2010.09.24, 12:57 PM
Just made my pre-order.... 4 lexan wings for testing at Galpas Speedway here in Brazil.

I'm betting on the rear end improoved traction, 'cause our carpet track is a low grip surface... The only tires that work to avoid the traction roll are the atomic W-groove and V-patern 10.... None of the PN tires works... Let's see how it handles in a few weeks!

I think it'll be another awesome product from Reflex... :D

color01
2010.09.25, 05:23 AM
Tried one of the wings on Grant's Mosler Mod GT car tonight.

It works well! Grant says there's less downforce than his angled slab spoiler, but I think there's also less drag due to the car rolling farther after I lift off for a turn. The amount of downforce is more than adequate for me driving Grant's car actually, I'd probably be one of the people who'd cut down the wing height to reduce downforce and drag even further.

You have a great product on your hands Joe, it'll sell well. :)

ruf
2010.09.25, 02:50 PM
Cool man! I'm glad you guys liked it!

FYI, I pulled proto wing off my car at Kenon last night and let Grant try it out on his Mosler. I don't think he wanted to take it back off! ;) Overall impressions were that it had good downforce and balance. Durability was also quite good.

To our team guys, you should be getting your proto wings today or on Monday. Let us know what you think! Production wings are scheduled to go out around the end of next week.

themelis factor
2010.09.25, 03:52 PM
The wing looks great cant wait to try it on the mosler body on a high traction surface at majs hobby shop :D

CristianTabush
2010.09.30, 02:39 AM
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1162_2.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1162_1.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1162_3.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1162_4.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1162_5.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1162_6.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1162_7.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1162_8.jpg

cosmicsoul
2010.09.30, 07:01 AM
Nice wing! Cool paint job, I like the stickers.

I noticed some of the team driver had some new Reflex stickers, are these going to be available to the public?

SAGISI
2010.10.04, 04:10 PM
I got my hands on the new wing just in time for the PN regionals held @ Inside Line Racing in Cupertino, CA thanks to Joe Chen. I ran my car with the stock spoiler until I was satisfied with my setup. After finding my setup I decided to mount the spoiler on the body which was a lexus sc430.

I painted and cut out the spoiler the night before. The spoiler was the pre production version and did require me to put my glasses on to see the cut line. Mounting the spoiler was very easy and just required a pen to mark where i was going to drill the holes and a body reamer to make the hole. Got it mounted in less then 5 minutes.

First lap with the spoiler on the car I felt a HUGE difference! It was like icing on the cake for my setup. I can now full throttle the car around the sweeper after ther straight away (pn regional layout) witout worrying that my car will spin out or hop. On high speed the car was very planted and low speed turns the car rotated very well. The track was a little bumpier then usual and the car was just planted going around the turns and not to mention very stable on the straight away.

Im not that technical in all the aerodynamics and the theories behind a spoiler but i can definately tell you that it made my car very easy to drive and very predictable. Most people argue that all a spoiler on a mini z was added weight to the rear to make it more stable but this spoiler is lighter then the stock spoiler. I am very impressed with the performance gains, looks and durability of the spoiler and look foward to having them on all my cars.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/dorifto-san4o8/reflexwing004.jpg

SAGISI
2010.10.04, 04:22 PM
Heres a video of my mod car @ILR PN regionals with the new spoiler. Car is starting on poll and is the same car as pictured above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBiWuF8dTN8

EMU
2010.10.04, 04:28 PM
SAGISI, nice looking car... The wing looks really good on that body. Do you have your headlight buckets removed? I recommend putting tape over them if they arent there...

SAGISI
2010.10.04, 04:32 PM
The left headlight bucket broke off during the final main. Ill put tape to cover the hole next time i run the car.

dxm2
2010.10.04, 04:42 PM
Sagisi, were you able to practice enough to see a difference in your lap times with the new wing? And, if you don't mind me asking, what tires did you run?

thanks

VAzRACER
2010.10.04, 05:00 PM
I got a chance to test the wing Joe sent me this past weekend, I have to agree with everything Sagisi said.

I used it on my stock car (f430). I already had a wing that I made on it and knew how the car handled and was very happy with it. Once I put the Reflex wing on the car it was leaps and bounds better than it was before. The car had a ton of down force and was very stable. The wing I had before had a bigger lip, just under the PN regulated height, the new wing had a smaller lip and produced more down force! There was less drag on the car and was much better balanced than before. It felt as though the car was rotating from its center piont instead of the front end dragging it around. My hot lap dropped by over a tenth of a second with no other changes to the car what so ever. (I race on a small to medium size layout so a tenth is a huge deal)
My consistency went through the roof! My hot lap was 5.76 and the mean was at 6.0.

This wing definetly gets two thumbs ups. It works and it takes all the hassle out of having to fab wings up your self that end up working half as good and are not nearly as durable. Another great Reflex product!!

SAGISI
2010.10.04, 05:00 PM
Sagisi, were you able to practice enough to see a difference in your lap times with the new wing? And, if you don't mind me asking, what tires did you run?

thanks

I practiced with the wing for 2 days and didnt find myself dropping much faster lap times but more consistent fast lap times. The last day of practice i ran with no transponder almost the whole day. Why??? Well im trying to focus my driving on consistancy now and not worrying to much on fast laps. Although I do want my laptimes to be close to what the other fast guys on the track are running.

The tire combo that I ran and I know all the pn guys started to run was PN8 slick front and Kyosho 20 slick rear.

CristianTabush
2010.10.04, 09:30 PM
Thanks to all the Team Guys for all of the feedback. I have not quite gotten to test them as this was a project handled by Ruf. I am very excited about them though- we have been trying to get them released for about 2 years now, so it is a project that has been long time coming. I must add that the end result is superb. The molding is great, it is a fairly straightforward install and it works on most bodies out there. There might be a little trouble with the 350Z super GT, but it can be done.

EMU
2010.10.08, 03:06 PM
I had my first test session last night with the wing. I installed it on my Mosler test body. The holes in the body lined up perfectly with the built in standoffs so all I had to do was drill holes in the wing after cutting it out, and install with screws and nuts. I had removed a big lexan wing that I had made, with nearly twice as much cord length, and thought that I wouldnt get the same downforce. The car felt just as planted, in the high speed sections, and in the mid speed sections it felt a little more planted than my larger wing. I am very impressed with the design and performance of this wing... and expect to run it on most if not all of my cars.

I also drilled an extra set of holes in the wing, so if I need more wing on a loose track, I can change the angle of the wing by moving to the alternate screw holes. This shows a lot of versatility, and very good performance.

What good is this post without a picture :)
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30676&stc=1&d=1286568349

Kevin S.
2010.10.14, 08:59 AM
First off, let me start of by saying that I am no way an expert when it comes to Mini-Z but I do know that after putting the Reflex wing on my Mosler, the car felt so much more planted. I loved the way it felt and it is a definite must for any Mini-z body. I will definitely use the Reflex wing from now on. Great job and another great product from Reflex Racing

Kevin S.
2010.10.21, 10:43 PM
Here is a pic with the Reflex Wing attached to my Mosler

CristianTabush
2010.10.21, 11:33 PM
Looking Good!!!

Kevin S.
2010.10.22, 08:47 AM
Looking Good!!!

Thanks CT...Keep up the good work...Can't wait to see what else Reflex will be coming out with next. :D

doug01n
2010.10.22, 11:19 AM
Just tested yesterday in a Atomic VDS I body... (yep, it looked geek). Car was my new mod car, running Stock-R motor...

I like the results so far... it improoved the rear traction at mid / high speed curves!

I'll test it in a mc-laren with PN70T tomorrow!

Great job, Reflex!!! :D

doug01n
2010.10.24, 12:06 PM
Sorry to repost, but I think it deserves it.

One word:
WWWOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!

This thing reeeeeaaaaaally works!!! I put it in my car, and tested... "ok... the car is good now". Just took it off, a couple of laps without it... "Holly crap.... where the hell the rear of the car has gone?"

I tried the second angle, more agressive... and my rear still planted, even when the W-groove 10 atomic tire became a slick tire!!!

This thing will not live my car anymore.

I notice more drag, but I think the constancy proporcioned by the wing worth it! I'll not make donuts at the curves anymore.

It works in the low speed curves too... But it really show what it does in mid and high speed corners.

Nice work Reflex!

danny250r
2010.10.24, 12:49 PM
you said it .these wings work great it made a big difference on my mosler :D

color01
2010.10.24, 04:33 PM
I may be repeating myself, but I wanted to mention that if you have too much drag and too much rear traction, Joe says that cutting these wings down is not an issue at all. The design is very efficient and taking out some of the height of the wing is not going to destroy your finely tuned setup, you'll just get less understeer. :cool:

doug01n
2010.10.24, 07:24 PM
Too much rear traction is never enought! I'm still usin 20 front tires, and can try the 10... But cut the wing... it's something I'm afraid to do, 'cause I can't go back if I cut it too much.

I'll try the first less agressive angle... I think it works great, reducing the drag while keeping the rear end planted.

Thanks Brian... I always see your posts, and it's always good ideas!

ruf
2010.10.24, 10:32 PM
Guys, I'm really glad you like it. Keep in mind that the wing is actually molded "tall" with a spacer so you don't have a weird edge where the mold ends. I cut mine down to 6mm tall on the sides, and 4-5mm tall on the rear. Thanks for all the great feedback! Keep it coming!

Kevin S.
2010.11.22, 10:34 AM
Hey CT,
Do you have any idea as to when the Reflex Wings will be back in stock again? I need to order some more :D:D

CristianTabush
2010.11.22, 11:45 AM
They are ready, we are just waiting on them to arrive. I's say shipping early next week.

Kevin S.
2010.11.22, 04:27 PM
They are ready, we are just waiting on them to arrive. I's say shipping early next week.

Excellent :D. I will definitely be ordering a few more once you get them back in stock on the site. Thanks again for another great product.

dvsstrike
2010.12.12, 07:06 PM
these are back in stock and are great! used them all day saturday and sunday with great success!

machgo5go
2011.01.03, 11:23 PM
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh123/machgo5go/MR03FerrariF430Challenge009Medium.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh123/machgo5go/MR02NSXGTMedium-1.jpg
Rear end is so planted that my Stock car needed to trim out 1 mm off the wing in order to balance the under-steer so now it turns on a dime.
Mod. Car was perfect in trying to keep the Rear end from less over-steer due to high torque motor out of corners.

ruf
2011.01.03, 11:39 PM
Glad you guys like them! Keep the reviews and pics coming!

And keep your eyes peeled for something just around the corner!

mugler
2011.01.04, 12:51 AM
Man they went out of stock quick! Any time-line for the next batch?

ruf
2011.01.04, 03:39 PM
We should have more by the end of the month.

JuniorWKR
2011.01.05, 08:39 AM
just picked up a handful of the new wings... going to be trying them out for the first time this fri night... cant wait to see how they will perform for me... will update with results...

JuniorWKR
2011.01.08, 11:04 AM
so i ran the reflex wing for the first time last night on my f430 ferrari... i must say i was very impressed with it but in a different way then most people have been stating here... i always felt a had a very good competitive setup and never had any issue wit down force as i have alwyas built very good rear lexan wings using very thin pieces of carbon fiber for the base...

the one thing that i can say about this wing is it made my car feel clean... locked in... the biggest problem i would always have wit running mod on a 03 chassis is no matter what the rear would always wonder on big powerful highspeed turns... this was not the case after running this wing... i cut about a mm off the stock cutout hieght and i ran it with mounting it on the rear holes and my car felt amazing... no understeer or lack of rotation due to excessive rear downforce...

i really like what you guys have done with this product... excellent work... this will always be part of my setup...

kromie101
2011.01.08, 03:45 PM
junior,do you think this wing would be good on the mosler? the mosler stock wing is so small. thanks,eric

hrdrvr
2011.01.08, 03:48 PM
I guess it doesn't count for anything that I run one on my Mosler :D You gotta hear that its good from Junior to try it out :p Ive got a couple in stock.....

kromie101
2011.01.08, 03:56 PM
i thought you did'nt have a wing on? you usually are wingless:D. i did'nt think you had any in stock. then save me one for sure. you know JR is my mentor:).

JuniorWKR
2011.01.08, 04:57 PM
always ran a wing... they were always made of clear lexan so maybe thats why you missed it... i tuned my buddies car last night tooo wit the reflex wing... its a mosler and it really helped him... his car was chattering in the rear and was over rotating... the wing worked nicely... on the mosler we left it at stock cutout... this was for mod... may need to be slightly cut down for stock... we mounted it using the rear holes...

kromie101
2011.01.08, 05:48 PM
thanks,Junior. i don't like the stock mosler wing.

arch2b
2011.01.08, 08:06 PM
when will these be back in stock?

VAzRACER
2011.01.08, 08:33 PM
when will these be back in stock?

Arch-I think Joe said around the end of the month, they sell out so quick. I think he just got a batch about a month ago.

Junior-Your results were similar to mine. For me the car feels completly planted and rotates more from the center point of the chassis vs the front pulling the car around. I too had large homemade lexan wings and when I got the first proto of this I didnt think it would be much differet from what I had. After testing back to back it was a noticable difference.

Also, I have noticed that the changing the height has huge effects on the down force. At the GSS a few weeks ago my stock car felt extremy dialed but I needed a little more steering. My wing was right on the height limit and close to being illegal on my f430 so trimmed 1mm of the wing and it gave me all the steering I needed and kept in safely under the limit.

Joe did a great job on the mold and the R&D on this product. It was not just slapped together, it closley resembles are wing design you would find on a real race car. You can tell alot of thought went into this little product.

arch2b
2011.01.08, 08:42 PM
thanks for the update. i need to order 3. i saw seth and joe run them with some success.:cool: joe in particular who went from 360gtc with stock wing to no wing and then to f430 with rr wing.

EMU
2011.01.09, 10:12 AM
The RR wing is a direct bolt in for the Mosler and F430GT. You do not need to drill holes into those bodies, just need to drill the holes in the wing itself..

machgo5go
2011.01.30, 07:47 PM
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh123/machgo5go/KyoshoMiniZMclarenGulfF1GTR003Medium.jpg
I had to migrate my existing wing to another body set up which working great.
Hopefully I will see restock soon so I can equip all my others!

CristianTabush
2011.01.31, 04:41 PM
Wings are back in stock!!! Get yours quick :P

mdowney
2011.02.07, 10:26 PM
W00t! Ordered six. Wondering if I should have ordered more.

blt456
2011.02.27, 01:36 AM
After reading many reviews in this thread and talking with some locals, I decided to buy this wing. I got to try it out on my brand new lexus sc430 mod gt. My car was a 350z before and wouldn't hook up. I haven't tried the lexus body for over a year and slapped in on today with the lexan wing. My car is very planted to the track. It gave me more rear traction, less chance of traction roll, and I could drive the car very hard without any issues of chatter. Also, in low speed corners and 's' turns, the car rotated very fast.

I run modified at my track and have had some setup issues for the past few months. I ran the lexus and the wing today and my issues went away. This wing is really worth the 6 dollars because it gives more rear traction, less chatter, and you can drive the car a lot harder into corners and especially off of the straight away.

Thanks Reflex for another awesome product, you guys finally made my car work perfect after a long time :D I'll post a picture 2mo.

ruf
2011.02.28, 06:02 PM
Driving is believing! I was pretty amazed by the changes it made to the handling - primarily the bump/chatter compliance which was unexpected.

On a side note, we are almost out but more on the way later this week!

EMU
2011.02.28, 07:12 PM
I had to cut down my wing a bit to meet the height rule at a race this weekend. It made a huge difference compared to how the car felt in practice.

ruf
2011.02.28, 10:50 PM
EMU - yah, I heard that from Cristian. What body were you running? Did you cut the wing on the cut line or the mold edge? How much did you have to cut?

color01
2011.02.28, 11:47 PM
After trying this out for a race night, I wouldn't say I'm blown away but I do think it's a good product. The drag produced seems to be almost negligible, I didn't register any change to the top speed the car attains on the back straight, but the downforce is noticeable. Not huge, but noticeable, and it helped when the track got bloody cold AND I was running on ages-old tires. Right now my wing sits right at 44-45mm off the ground, so if I want to raise it I'm going to have to cut it, not sure if that is a smart way to go. It would be more efficient though, in theory. :) Good stuff Reflex!

EMU
2011.03.01, 12:21 AM
I used Color0's old f430GT that I purchased a little while back ;) I originally had it cut to the mold edge, but had to cut it down a little past the cut line. Before cutting it, I raised the rear axle, and removed the shims that I had between the wing and the body. It still produced good downforce, but not what I was used to (have been driving this setup for a few months, it was my stock car at the PNWC finals with very few changes besides the Qteq t-bar). I ran a 39t. Kyosho 20d rear, 30d front.

Before the mains, I made a few changes to get a little more steering (tires and then a little softer on the rear suspension to compensate, and the car would hook on left turns. but rights were normal so it didnt feel like there was tweak). I really shouldnt have changed anything, as grip went down a bit, and the slight push that I had earlier that I was trying to get rid of, would have been perfect :rolleyes:

I still had good aero grip, with the front diffusor installed on this body I had loads of speed in the sweeper. I used a different body for stock (430GT with stock wing at 96mm) since I wanted a more aggressive corner entrance. In the end, the change in wing height was noticable but not too much. I think the difference was more in the other changes that I made than the wing. I got the car to behave somewhat just before the main, but it was still a handfull. My stock car was a different story, gear mesh tightened up a bit and I lost all my punch/speed that I had earlier.

JuniorWKR
2011.03.01, 08:18 AM
i ran at the same race as EMU this weekend and had to cut both my wings down as well.. i ran the ferrari 430 and the corvette and both had to be cut down half way... if a version II is to come out i would like to see the posts shorter so we can run full wing size at PN races and not worry about making the height restrictions... it really changesd the driving characteristics of my cars when i cut the wing down...

arch2b
2011.03.01, 12:35 PM
i too ran an f430 gt with the rr wing and had to trim it down slightly. mine seemed to remain higher than others though. maybe i glued the body clips higher up on the body than others?

i saw some wings that had to be cut down to practically nothing in order to be pn rule compliant.

CristianTabush
2011.03.01, 01:38 PM
i ran at the same race as EMU this weekend and had to cut both my wings down as well.. i ran the ferrari 430 and the corvette and both had to be cut down half way... if a version II is to come out i would like to see the posts shorter so we can run full wing size at PN races and not worry about making the height restrictions... it really changesd the driving characteristics of my cars when i cut the wing down...

Junior, we are starting to work on a second wing that will have shorter posts.

JuniorWKR
2011.03.01, 02:32 PM
that is great news...

if i am correct the distance between the bottom of the wing and the body should have minimal to zero effect on the characterics of the handling as compared to hacking the wing itself down to size to make height restricitons correct...

lfisminiz
2011.03.01, 03:23 PM
I ran at the same race also....on the new 599xx body, the wing had to be cut down to almost nothing. It has a high trunk area.

Glad to hear your comming out with a version 2 wing. Like JR said, shorter posts. I would still make version 1 too.

ruf
2011.03.01, 03:51 PM
that is great news...

if i am correct the distance between the bottom of the wing and the body should have minimal to zero effect on the characterics of the handling as compared to hacking the wing itself down to size to make height restricitons correct...Actually, getting the wing away from the body is one of the key factors in staying out of the dirty air and generating efficient downforce. We're working on something that will accommodate bodies with higher rear ends, but still generate good downforce.

Any other suggestions guys?

Not that it matters, but the crazy thing is that the current wing was designed for F430GT under PNWC rules. It passed at the 2010 Finals. Can you guys post profile shots so we can make sure we have the issue covered? Thanks!

mleemor60
2011.03.01, 03:56 PM
The tool that was used at the Capital Challenge for tech was the same tool used at the World's in Myrtle Beach.

EMU
2011.03.01, 04:11 PM
The tool that was used at the Capital Challenge for tech was the same tool used at the World's in Myrtle Beach.

It must have been the table :eek: I used the Lexus at the PNWC, which was the last event that had a max wing height measured. I got in the habit of using as much wing as I could... :p While my wing is not cut very short, it is shorter than before. I will post a pic when I get home.

Rune
2011.03.01, 04:14 PM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_2uRHE7AV3zs/TW1vWkq2SuI/AAAAAAAADTM/jzLZCIPoFDQ/IMAG0099.jpg
Sorry for the crappy pic.
This is my 599 with almost full wing. Measures in at exactly 44,9mm.

lfisminiz
2011.03.01, 04:42 PM
I know chassis ride height could have alittle to do with it BUT the normal wing, PN rules, works on most bodies. Im also wondering if something effected the measuring tool at this race?:confused: For the most part, havent had trouble at PN races with the wing.

My 599XX was cut down much more to pass....:confused:

pedrocamp
2011.03.01, 04:46 PM
Shouldn't the wing be measured relative to the bottom of the chassis? Set the chassis on a block, add the height of the block minus an average ride height of 3-4mm to the wing height gauge. This would eliminate all the suspension ride height and stiction, tire size, etc... issues. Pretty much set the wing height and forget it. Change tires, ride height, rake and the wing doesn't change relative to the chassis. You can get more downforce of course by raking the car but you get a CG penalty, compromises. The rear cutout should be also measured this way. Just a suggestion...

Rune
2011.03.01, 04:46 PM
I know chassis ride height could have alittle to do with it BUT the normal wing, PN rules, works on most bodies. Im also wondering if something effected the measuring tool at this race?:confused: For the most part, havent had trouble at PN races with the wing.

My 599XX was cut down much more to pass....:confused:

I know. Ride height measured between body (sideskirt) and ground is 2,7mm rear, and 2,5mm front on the car in the picture.
I drilled the mounting hole in the wing between the two marks in the wing to get it as level as possible.

arch2b
2011.03.01, 05:01 PM
Shouldn't the wing be measured relative to the bottom of the chassis? Set the chassis on a block, add the height of the block minus an average ride height of 3-4mm to the wing height gauge. This would eliminate all the suspension ride height and stiction, tire size, etc... issues. Pretty much set the wing height and forget it. Change tires, ride height, rake and the wing doesn't change relative to the chassis. You can get more downforce of course by raking the car but you get a CG penalty, compromises. The rear cutout should be also measured this way. Just a suggestion...
isn't this proceedure documented somewhere by now? it's a simple process, or it should be. i did as instructed:o i can post a picture of mine tonight but it wasn't cut down much at all. not sure what make mine different from others. and for the record, i did not do the tech inspection for my own car.

ruf
2011.03.01, 05:57 PM
Mike - thanks for that info.

EMU - as you've noticed, the wing sits lower on the SC430 than the F430GT.

I think it may boil down to a few factors stacking up. Tire height, suspension preload, axle height, and finally wing mounting angle. The front portion of the mounting posts is intended for use with bodies like the SC430 which has an angled-down trunk lid. If you mount the wing using the front portion of the mounting post on a level trunk lid, you will get a TON of wing angle and thus raise the rear of the wing significantly. This may or may not be the case for some of you, but it's just a possibility.

Additionally, the 599 looks like the trunk is pretty high up there and would require a different design to get a good chord depth. Will goof around with it some more. Thanks for the feedback guys!

JuniorWKR
2011.03.01, 06:07 PM
the difference between running a kyosho 20 treaded rear to a pn 6 or 8 treaded can make the difference between passing or not...

i ran pn version 4 rear 94mm pod... i had the number one axle adjusters in upside down which sits it lower then normal... the first run i passed.. the second run i didnt when i mounted new rear tires and adjust tension on top shock to give more steering... i had to considerably cut down the wing for the third run which just about passed... i actually had to take a file to slightly smooth the wing out to pass... the tech department did an excellent job that weekend and were very thorough but accomidating.... im sure this can be resloved easialy though i like the idea of measuring the wing in camparision to the body instead of from the ground but thats a discussion for another thread...

no matter what the reflex wing is hands down the best wing on the market today.... i have one on every single car i race... im sure the the guys at reflex will make a new wing to accomidate some of the rules out there and it will still be the best wing on the market...

arch2b
2011.03.01, 07:46 PM
it would seem like a very simple thing to make a base plate to drop the car on allow the wheels to hang free leaving the gauge to measure the wing to chassis height.

i look forward to new wing options. have you considered making one thinner to fit a typical narrow body car?

EMU
2011.03.01, 10:42 PM
i look forward to new wing options. have you considered making one thinner to fit a typical narrow body car?
I would be interested as well :) Right now I think they need to take it one step at a time, but I do think it will be considered. I cut down the sides on some of the existing wings to suit the needs of a narrow car if needed.

ruf
2011.03.01, 11:00 PM
What you guys don't like the Pikes Peak Hill Climb look? :D

color01
2011.03.02, 12:47 AM
The Mosler also has a high trunk lid, it seems... you have to shave and lower the shell a full 4mm to run the wing at full height.

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/471/img0875re.jpg

The endplates are just trimmed funny, I'm actually mounting the wing using the back set of posts (for level trunk lids). This wing sits at 44mm off the ground. I'm curious now how much I'd have to slam the F430GT to run a full-height Reflex wing, I feel like it'd be at least 2-3mm worth of lowering. :)

blt456
2011.03.03, 08:30 PM
Here is my car with the Reflex wing :)

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r198/blt45/IMG_0036.jpg

arch2b
2011.03.03, 08:39 PM
here is my f430gt at a hare under 45mm exactly

arch2b
2011.03.20, 12:59 PM
I would be interested as well :) Right now I think they need to take it one step at a time, but I do think it will be considered. I cut down the sides on some of the existing wings to suit the needs of a narrow car if needed.

a local track is getting a 90mm class started. i'd love to get a narrow wing for these bodies. current wing looks a bit silly on a cooper or 240z.

Mike Keely
2011.03.20, 05:02 PM
The Mosler also has a high trunk lid, it seems... you have to shave and lower the shell a full 4mm to run the wing at full height.

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/471/img0875re.jpg

The endplates are just trimmed funny, I'm actually mounting the wing using the back set of posts (for level trunk lids). This wing sits at 44mm off the ground. I'm curious now how much I'd have to slam the F430GT to run a full-height Reflex wing, I feel like it'd be at least 2-3mm worth of lowering. :)On my Mosler I only had to trim less then a mm off to be legal height. I think when you drilled the holes you drilled them to far forward and that kicks the back up a lot.

joey
2011.03.20, 09:12 PM
i mounted my wing forward on my F430, but also cut it down so the front of the wing didn't overhang over the rear window..

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/joey-w/th_photo-7.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/joey-w/?action=view&current=photo-7.jpg)

machgo5go
2011.03.20, 09:31 PM
i mounted my wing forward on my F430, but also cut it down so the front of the wing didn't overhang over the rear window..
So when are we going to see a low profile version without doing all these trimming in order to meet ride heights regulation?

CristianTabush
2011.03.21, 09:33 AM
We are working on it. It just takes time to work through the molding process. But bug Ruf's inbox and you might get it done quicker :P