PDA

View Full Version : RR reverse kingpin


chad508
2010.09.27, 10:58 PM
anyone else check out the reflex blog. they have a new reverse kingpin system that looks pretty interesting.

color01
2010.09.28, 06:01 AM
"Interesting" in the sense that it's "right". This is the optimal configuration that 12th-scalers have had for years, just weird that Kyosho never gave it to us. Unfortunately there really is no space to lower your car with these springs, which means that the suspension geometry might not be able to be set to what you were using before. For example, I prefer slightly taller tires with lower ride height, so I would have 1mm of space for the spring coils, lol...

Good job again Reflex!

JuniorWKR
2010.09.28, 09:40 AM
wont putting shims on top of the knuckle adjust preload on the spring and ride height?

JuniorWKR
2010.09.28, 10:08 AM
wont putting shims on top of the knuckle adjust preload on the spring and ride height?

it will also add camber which may not be a bad thing also...

EMU
2010.09.28, 11:36 AM
I like this option :)

Shims on top of the knuckle wont lower the ride height. It will limit the suspension travel, and will increase camber and spring preload. Shims under the knuckle effect all four. Adjusting camber should be done with alternate methods if you only want to adjust the camber without effecting preload/travel.

CristianTabush
2010.09.28, 12:02 PM
"Interesting" in the sense that it's "right". This is the optimal configuration that 12th-scalers have had for years, just weird that Kyosho never gave it to us. Unfortunately there really is no space to lower your car with these springs, which means that the suspension geometry might not be able to be set to what you were using before. For example, I prefer slightly taller tires with lower ride height, so I would have 1mm of space for the spring coils, lol...

Good job again Reflex!

Always so skeptical. :(

The front can be lowered quite a bit, just can be used with FULL size Kyosho front tires as it will be simply too tall. You can still use taller tires with a smaller wheel and achieve lower ride heights.

Also, a smaller diameter front tire is also superior under most track conditions (the only time you really want to run a tall tire is if the track has NO grip watsoever, even then I would go with a smaller tire, softer compound). It allows you to drop your front end ride height without dropping your front roll center. Low front roll centers on the MR-03 are the Devil. They cause the car to traction roll and lose too much corner speed.

EMU
2010.09.28, 12:15 PM
I almost always lower my front ride height with the front wheel/tire choice. There are many options on the market for 19mm wheels, and if you want to go lower than that, you can use the Mantis 18.2mm Group C wheels. If thats not enough, then Kyosho LM, Nascar or Classic wheels would be the smallest usable wheel. Having a smaller wheel also increases the responsiveness of the car, and one of the reasons that I prefer using them to lower the front end rather than shimming up the knuckle.

color01
2010.09.28, 03:12 PM
Always so skeptical. :(

The front can be lowered quite a bit, just can be used with FULL size Kyosho front tires as it will be simply too tall. You can still use taller tires with a smaller wheel and achieve lower ride heights.

Also, a smaller diameter front tire is also superior under most track conditions (the only time you really want to run a tall tire is if the track has NO grip watsoever, even then I would go with a smaller tire, softer compound). It allows you to drop your front end ride height without dropping your front roll center. Low front roll centers on the MR-03 are the Devil. They cause the car to traction roll and lose too much corner speed.
Huh? Sorry if I came across that way Cristian, but my intention was to state that this is THE best way to implement reverse-kingpin suspension, and I'm glad you guys found the springs to do so! :) I'm just worried that people who like to "slam" their cars aren't going to have suspension uptravel room (me being one of them). I'm already running 19mm wheels but I still lower my car by additional 1.2mm and raise the roll center accordingly.

Should I email you to add a set of the springs to my order? I have the PN reverse kingpins already.

CristianTabush
2010.09.28, 03:25 PM
The springs will not be available by themselves for now. The kingpin is different than the PN one. It does not have a flange. This allows you to play with King-pin positioning a bit and get extra ground clearance. The pivot balls are also recessed to allow for the spring to sit inside.

JuniorWKR
2010.09.28, 03:36 PM
the picture that is posted on the blog. What knuckles are those?

CristianTabush
2010.09.28, 03:39 PM
Those are our own knuckles. I am still playing around a bit for clearance but they are almost done. ;)

And BTW, no worries Brian, just giving you a hard time ;)

JuniorWKR
2010.09.28, 03:44 PM
is your knuckle considered a standard hieght or a low down? and will a low down version give you more options on ride height?

Felix2010
2010.09.28, 04:53 PM
CT - How does it work? On the track I mean? Is it the best suspension you've used, can it be adjusted enough to make it one of if not the most susperior MR03 front suspensions available? Thanks for the pics too, love checking out pics:)

CristianTabush
2010.09.28, 04:57 PM
The axles on our knuckles are raised a bit to provide lower ride height. Low down vs standard is relative. For example, with stock knuckles, I typically run a 0.5mm shim underneath the knuckle. With lowering knuckles, I do not run anything when I use 19mm front wheels.

CristianTabush
2010.09.28, 05:28 PM
Felix, I just see it as a different suspension.

They all work similarly and all have their advantages and disadvantages. Personally I like it, it makes the front super precise, because it reduces slop to almost non-existent levels.

The Pros and Cons are below:

Pros:
-Economical: The full set will cost probably about $13.00-14.00 comes with balls, king pin, e-clips (including extras) and a spring set.
-Light Weight: The King pin is small, light and so are the pillow balls and springs.
-Reduces slop over traditional and Reflex Xtra long King pin set-up.
-Really smooth. The benefits of a reverse kingpin is having less sliding parts. This usually means more front traction.
-Low maintenance: These parts make the wear of the front end much lower, even the knuckles. This keeps COST DOWN.
-VERSATILE: It can be run reverse style or with the spring at the top. It also works with Kyosho, Atomic or PN Lower arms.
-LOW PROFILE

Cons:
-Not as adjustable
-E Clips are sometimes tough for some people
-Limited ride height possibilities in Reverse Set Up. Basically, you are better off with worn-in or trued tires.
-Car is a little twitchier due to increased front suspension efficiency. You have to use thicker grease to tame the front end down vs the top spring set-up.
-Clearance of the bottom can get a little low if not spaced properly.

benmlee
2010.09.30, 02:32 PM
The pin looks pretty good. Would say the only thing to watch out for is how deep that spring is recessed. Can't tell from the picture. The ball is loosing contact with more recess. But that is not the problem. Real problem is that the center of contact is shifted higher up in the ball. Shifted too high, and you will create a torque on the ball that will result in binding again.
Ratio of distance from center of contact to center of ball divided by the thickness of remaining material. If is greater than 2, then you will start getting into danger zone of binding.

Pan car always use spring on the king pin. Mini-z are so small is hard to fit the spring under the knuckle. Stock mini-z has about 2.5mm of suspension travel. 1/10 scale car probably only have slightly more travel, but they have more room to work with.

CristianTabush
2010.09.30, 07:24 PM
Thanks for the info Ben. Yeah, we had looked into this, and waited to test it thoroughly before we announced the release for these reasons. But we have not found any problems with binding at all. We tested different depths of recession on the balls and also different length springs.

It all started because people wanted to run our kingpins with the PN lower parts. It evolved to people wanting reverse kingpins with the 4 degree caster setting. This takes care of both. The springs can be run at the top or at the bottom. No binding. No Rubbing. No Modifying. :)

EMU
2010.09.30, 07:38 PM
I cant wait to start running this... I have been fiddling around with reversing the stock kingpins, but dont like the arm flex. I think that this will be the most precise and responsive suspension for the MR03 yet...

VAzRACER
2010.09.30, 11:36 PM
I cant wait to start running this... I have been fiddling around with reversing the stock kingpins, but dont like the arm flex. I think that this will be the most precise and responsive suspension for the MR03 yet...

Your gonna like this setup! i drove a few packs thru my car last weekend after putting on the reverse king pins, the percision is there, not to mention it is super smooth. The car was very easy to drive and went right where I wanted it to go.

With the Reflex long king pins I used Kyosho 5k grease but with the reverse king pins I found that it needed somthing thicker, the Reflex medium dampening grease worked very well for me.

CristianTabush
2010.10.10, 04:12 PM
Pre-orders are now up for this set-up. It should be arriving in around 2 weeks. Reserve yours quick, as these will sell out!

chad508
2010.10.10, 08:30 PM
just placed my pre order cant wait to give them a shot.

CristianTabush
2010.10.20, 05:32 PM
Parts have arrived!!! Ahead of schedule!!!

All orders are shipping tomorrow and Friday!!!

chad508
2010.11.17, 09:59 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/chad508/IMG_20101117_211730.jpg

chad508
2010.11.17, 10:01 PM
above pic is what i am trying out with rr reverse king pin idea. i just used an 02 king pin with a 02 spring limiter as a shim. it works and allows me to work on easily as all i have to remove is 1 plastic e clip.

LeftHandedRacer
2010.11.17, 10:10 PM
i like that idea with the 02 pin, i think if the RR pins had a flange on bottom end of the pin and used a plastic e clip on the top it would make changes much easier and faster, "on the fly" like the extra long pins.

CristianTabush
2010.11.17, 10:15 PM
Whenever the second edition comes out, we are considering the flange at the bottom. At the top however, we will keep the metallic e-clip to keep the cost of the kit down. We do not have molding capabilities yet.

chad508
2010.11.17, 10:23 PM
how about just let us provide the plastic e clip. im sure most everyone has them. but i do understand trying make a kit with all the parts in one package.

i really do like this setup and have gotten 2 cars running it and just set up this chassis to run a lm at 102 for this weekends carolina cup. i wanted to try this idea so i could change springs and shims a little faster on the fly.

Felix2010
2010.11.17, 11:15 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/chad508/IMG_20101117_211730.jpg

Dizzope:D What kind of springs did you use for the low-down underneath springs? Did you use the RR Set of springs from the RR Low-Down susp. kit?

Maybe I can try this with the 02 kingpin 1st. Then go lighter with RR's kit.

chad508
2010.11.18, 12:02 AM
Yes they are from the rr kit. You still need the lower balls as well. Me and CT spoke at the worlds about this and he mentioned the next batch may come with the lower flange. I just wanted to try it out sooner. I also got another idea. I've Seen a few good racers use the long arms with spring over and in normal spring postion. I was going to try this setup with a spring on top as well. Its worth trying out.

Q t
2010.11.24, 03:00 AM
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac83/pussaye/mini%20z%20collection/CIMG4210.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac83/pussaye/mini%20z%20collection/CIMG4208.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac83/pussaye/mini%20z%20collection/CIMG4205.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac83/pussaye/mini%20z%20collection/CIMG4214.jpg

ruf
2010.11.24, 03:33 AM
So simple! Nice work!

unwritten
2010.11.28, 04:35 PM
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac83/pussaye/mini%20z%20collection/CIMG4210.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac83/pussaye/mini%20z%20collection/CIMG4208.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac83/pussaye/mini%20z%20collection/CIMG4205.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac83/pussaye/mini%20z%20collection/CIMG4214.jpg

How thick are those shims underneath the knuckles?

Q t
2010.11.28, 06:24 PM
well it was 4 on the bottom and 2 at the top but on the thanx giving race it was hard to race when i am running a new radio and new suspension system so couldnt tell a difference yet but i had to redo my shimming because it was too high in the fron i had to use the atomic 19mm s6 rims and i had to put 7 shims on the botton and nun on top to get the front low enough to be the same length off the ground but the shims are the pn m2 x 0.2mm shims

Felix2010
2010.11.28, 07:46 PM
This FS is the best one I've seen so far. Are there any issues with the Rev. Kingpins scraping the track at ll? Or will most any tire last a good while before the tire ride-height becomes an issue with the bottom kingpin/spring assembly?

Anything good enough for 1/12th Scale Pan Car is good enough for me!!lol My only hesitations from ordering now are:

This 1st Gen Kingpin with 2 E-clips and not "One side E-clip. One side Flange" leaves me wondering if I should wait for the "V2"of this product? I like the product, but would want the simplest "Best" Version, I am not that good at changing parts out a super lot.:o I just want to assemble a Full-Reflex MR03 Front-End Kit and leave it alone, not have to wait for the V2 Kingpin with flanges or other minute but still significant changes, ya know what I'm saying?

Really cool FS though, I'm doing it to one car ASAP...:D

unwritten
2010.12.01, 02:40 AM
Any review on this product yet?

CristianTabush
2010.12.01, 11:32 AM
Well, first of all, if there is a V2, it will be a while. It is still not in the near future.

The good thing about it is that once set, you rarely have to change it around. If you have a set of flat pliers, this can be done quickly and with relative ease.

For reviews, mine is on the blog from the website, on the product page for the product and in several other posts on this thread. While I won't claim fantastic numbers from it, I can say this: Everyone who has used them correctly has switched all their cars over to them. It is very simple, low maintenance and the performance increase, due to the reduced slop and friction makes the car SUPER easy to drive. To the average guy, this usually means faster laps. For the Faster guys, this usually means more consistency.

hrdrvr
2010.12.01, 03:13 PM
CT, I hate to see the flange is not in the near future. I wanted to come on here and defend the clips, but maybe reccomend if a flange is out of the question, the nmaybe abother option would be to leave the metal clip at the bottom and go to a plastic clip (only need a wider groove) on the top. This would mean you could leave the bottom one in place and only ever have to mess with a metal except on initla installation.

However, I cannot reccoemnd this set up as it is sold right now. I have about 2 hours running the car, when I came into a very odd occurence. The car would spin in one direction, like the body was dragging. I pulled it off the track and glanced at the bottom of it. The body was set right, so I dropped it back down. Same thing. I picked it up and rmeoved the body to find one of the arms all the way up...

I flippedd it back over to look at the spring situation only to find one of my E-clips was about to fall off.

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/MBMZR/Members%20rides/Landon/2010-12-01_13-48-34_878.jpg

Then, even worse, I found out what was causing the spin outs......

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/MBMZR/Members%20rides/Landon/2010-12-01_13-48-41_592.jpg

Now, I am short a spring and an e-clip :( The thing is, I dont know if Ill run this again, because of the same thing possibly happening again. The car was very consistant, and I love the reduced friction. I guess I need to order some more springs and try out Chad's method with the 02 king pin.

EMU
2010.12.01, 05:00 PM
As I posted in the Myrtyle Beach thread, when I assemble this I glue the lower clip in place. Prevents many headaches...

Also, check your ride height (kingpin clearance), I had a couple issues with this until I set the ride height with enough clearance for the kingpins. I have one car with the clips glued (mosler) and one without (F40)... I have put a lot of packs through both without losing any clips. I use 18mm front wheels with ATM tires on the F40. 19mm wheels with trued K30 radials on the Mosler...

chad508
2010.12.01, 05:47 PM
just to put my info in. i like the setup. like ct said once its shimmed properly you really have no need to mess with it, other than cleaning. granted it is a pain to get the shimming right if you have to take it a part a few times to add are move shims to set tweak are preload. i have yet to have an e clip come off, i know mine were tight going on. i would like to see a plastic e clip be able to be used on top to help with maintenance. i also like using the taller delrin balls instead of the shorter ones provided, just allows me to use less shims. all in all i like it and i feel it will be even better if v2 has a few changes.

hrdrvr
2010.12.02, 09:19 AM
EMU - I must have missed the thing about gluing the lower clips on. To be honest, without this happening to me, I probably wouldn't have put glue on there even with some one recommending it. I figured as hard as they were to put on, that they wouldn't come off, lol.

I think my clearance is pretty good. I didn't think it could even get onto one of my dots, especially with fairly narrow offsets (+1). Take a look at the pic below and tell me what you think. I could raise the ride height about a millimeter if this is a problem, but since I am running a taller body, I was shooting for a pretty low stance. I can always lower the body more in the front if I need to compensate.

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/MBMZR/Members%20rides/Landon/2010-12-01_15-40-33_734.jpg


Don't get me wrong guys, I think this is a great little set up, and has the potential to be the best suspension available. I wont say my lap times were a lower, but the car feels good, and from what I have talked about with others running it, it is very consistent, even track to track.

I went ahead and put my RR extra long spring over set up back on, and turned some laps with the car. I went down to a 1.117, while I only did a 1.138 with the spring under (very nominal difference). I got down to a 7.017 with different gearing and the spring under, so Ill see if I can break into the 6s with the spring over and similar gearing today. The car feels just as good, as this is the set up I have been running for a while now. The spring under is lighter and lower, which should allow me to run a lot better body selection on it, which makes it totally worth it to me. Also the peace of mind that there is less friction and a lower CG are big selling points to me....even if it doesn't prove to be "faster".

SaiTam
2010.12.02, 10:20 AM
Will this setup work with Tire diameter about 22 - 22.5mm(trued down tires on 19mm wheels)?

JuniorWKR
2010.12.02, 10:27 AM
it looks to me that this setup in the pic above does not pass the diameter of the rim... so any tire size should work... please anyone correct me if im wrong

JuniorWKR
2010.12.02, 10:28 AM
and i believe those are 19mm rims on there in the pic

SaiTam
2010.12.02, 10:45 AM
My front tire looks like this and I wonder if it will rub

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/dealerxing/Mini-z/IMG_0705.jpg

hrdrvr
2010.12.02, 11:17 AM
^ They are 19mm mantis wheels, and it is right at the lip of the wheel (as good as my eye can see it). On top of that, you can see I have right about 1mm of droop, which could be used as more clearance if shimmed out above the knuckle.

I have a variety of wheels and tires that I would be happy to post pics of to show people when I get my springs to replace the ones lost.

I went ahead and ordered a couple of more kits too, as Id like to try out Chad's mod with some 02 pins. That way, I can be testing an alternative if these clips wont stay on running over my track dots.

hrdrvr
2010.12.02, 11:21 AM
It took me a while to hit submit on that one. It was supposed to be under Juniors post :D

Sai, I don't think you could run those wheels (19mm right?) and tires at that ride height. It may fit, but I think it would be close enough that you would have issues. You look you have about 2mm+ under the knuckle, which I think would be too much. If you ran your ride height the same as mine, or higher, you could do it with those wheels and tires.

EMU
2010.12.02, 11:30 AM
You can always put the spring over the arm if ride height is too low. I used tires that thin on Mantis Group C wheels (18.5mm), you just have to adjust the ride height a little to make sure that there is clearance. You can shim over the knuckle or arm to increase clearance of the kingpin to the track. Shimming too much will increase preload and decrease travel, so take that in mind.

Once I assembled my front end, and got it to a point that I like, I havent touched it since :)

CristianTabush
2010.12.02, 12:04 PM
Landon you are the first case that I have heard of having trouble with the clips. Were you running elevation changes at your track? If so, the PN Lower arm will give you a bit extra clearance, you might need this, given that the King Pin is not too low. I don't think your situation is too common though. Even at the Worlds, when I did not notice and I had my lower pin too low and it was dragging, the clip never came out. None of the team guys had trouble with the clips coming off either. I have not had a whole lot of comments on this issue, so if I was to guess It might just be either user error, or the track elevation changes.

Typically I set to have my king pin no lower than 1.5mm from the ground.

Tire diameter is very crucial for this set-up, that's why I don't recommend it for everyone. Typically on high grip tracks I will run a bigger diameter front wheel and smaller tire, and on lower grip tracks I run the smaller diameter wheel with a bigger tire. Overall, I do tend to keep my ride height in between 2.5 and 3.0mm from the ground.

Glue should not be necessary on the clip. If the clip is too loose, use another one. There are a couple of extra ones in a pack. If the clip is installed correctly, it should take far more force than what a Mini-Z Typically can generate to rip one off.

I'm not saying that a V2 can't or won't have these changes. It will just take a while for them to be released while the first generation sells out. If used properly though, the front is very consistent, needs very little maintenance and rarely needs to be touched.

JuniorWKR
2010.12.02, 01:29 PM
Reflex racer Johnny Themilis threw it on his car for the first time the other nite and threw it on the track for fri night racing... its pretty awesome... I really like it with the 02 kingpin upgrade... Nice Job CT and the rest of the gang at Reflex...

hpgod
2010.12.02, 01:50 PM
From running larger scale offroad car for yers at the highest level.
Welder Silcone(from walmart) similar to shoe goo (it does not dry in the bottle like shoe goo) is the best adhesive for eclips.

hrdrvr
2010.12.02, 03:05 PM
Well, like I said, I haven't given up yet. Hopefully using some different clips, and gluing them on will keep it form happening again.

I was running on a flat layout Cristian (well as flat as our layouts get :D Our track is a bit bumpier than most I travel too), but I originally had the problem after an impact with an apex (which is why I thought the body was dislodged). That particular apex has a wide 'dot' (curbing) on it that protrudes out pretty far. I am guessing that the curb got me. By riding all the way to the RCP rail I passed all the way over the dot, so it is possible that my outside king pin made it to the curb in a manner that hit it just right.

The forces at work with Mini-Z are minimal, but transferring the full momentum of the running car to a point the size of an e-clip would equal pretty substantial force on that e-clip.

Also, I would like to think I installed the e-clips right :D I do know its a possibility that I installed them wrong, and won't know unless I can verify correctly installed ones that repeat this dilemma....which I hope doesn't happen ;) I would think they would have come off way earlier if they hadn't been put on right in the first place. I turned over 200 laps or more with them before this happened, and had multiple trips over the curbs.

dvsstrike
2010.12.06, 07:16 AM
I have used this front end for a while and I run my cars on my personal track for 4-5 hours a day and got througha set of tires in a week and never had I had a clip pop off or even try to come off. I run my tires down to the point where it my pop off but never do. You may of hit something on your track to dislodge it. Check your trsck for any debris or high spots.
This front rocks and is super smooth. I also run the hardest spring with a slight pre load. The best part you can run high offsets and it will not be affected.

Rune
2010.12.06, 10:20 AM
I have used this front end for roughly 5 hours on track, and have not encountered any problems. It takes out a bit of slop, and the result is a very precise car.

As for tire diameter, I have found an overall diameter of 22 - 23mm to be my sweetspot.
The only downside is that is a bit harder to adjust preload than with the RR Extra long kingpins.
I would also like to have a few more spring sets available.

A really postive note is that the springs are very good. I measured two sets from different packages, and they were almost identical pair to pair, both length and rates. That is not the norm when it comes to Mini-Z springs!

unwritten
2010.12.06, 02:03 PM
guys,
any advise on the shimming and preloading..?
i like to run my front end a little soft (PN Blue on Cantiliever Setup), thats why i cant pre-load them too much. but this mean i will have clearence problem if i run 19mm wheels, which i love. i know i can put the springs on top, but i like the way the reverse kingpin feels. less moving parts. i curently running 20mm whels with trued tires to 22.5mm. i just like the way smaller wheels drive.

any suggestion...?

unwritten
2010.12.06, 02:29 PM
also,
i am curently using PN Low Down Knuckles no shim underneath. 0.8 above knuckle (below ball) and 0.3 shim at the top.

dvsstrike
2010.12.06, 04:22 PM
i run a .3under the knuckle and a .5 on the top of the knuckle and a .2on top for the ride height or pre load. and silver springs. when I run the golds which I am running as of now I run no shim on the top of the ball. I am also using lowered pn knuckles.

unwritten
2010.12.06, 04:57 PM
i run a .3under the knuckle and a .5 on the top of the knuckle and a .2on top for the ride height or pre load. and silver springs. when I run the golds which I am running as of now I run no shim on the top of the ball. I am also using lowered pn knuckles.

dvsstrike,
with this setup, you have enough ride height with 19mm wheels?

EMU
2010.12.06, 05:22 PM
With 3Racing 1d knuckles, I have no shim under the knuckle, 1mm above knuckle and nothing above the ball. This is with 18mm wheels, and 22mm outside diameter.

dvsstrike
2010.12.06, 07:23 PM
dvsstrike,
with this setup, you have enough ride height with 19mm wheels?

i do have plenty. I forgot to mention is that i did change roll center on the top bar as it made the front end hop and want to roll over too much.

CristianTabush
2010.12.06, 11:14 PM
Tim has it down perfectly. This is exactly how I run mine, with 19mm or 20mm wheels. The size of the wheel is not as important as the overall diameter. I use the smaller wheels on lower grip tracks where I need to run a taller front sidewall to get steering. On a high grip track,where you need smaller sidewalls, the 19mm wheel can get close to dragging on the ground if the tire gets too thin.

unwritten
2010.12.08, 01:53 PM
thanks for all the input guys...
im going to follow Tim's setup...
PN Low Down Knuckles 0.3 shim underneath. 0.8 above knuckle (below ball) and 0.2 shim at the top. it seems to feels the best and no droop.
again... thanks guys...

dvsstrike
2010.12.09, 08:31 AM
try running with no shim on top. seem you run a lot of camber gain. are you looking for steering?

unwritten
2010.12.09, 01:13 PM
try running with no shim on top. seem you run a lot of camber gain. are you looking for steering?

yes,
i like a lot of steering...

unwritten
2010.12.09, 02:14 PM
the thing is, that if I dont run the top shim, theres a slight droop. my mr-03 always feels weird with droop...

dvsstrike
2010.12.09, 03:48 PM
try the gold spring(hardest ) you will be surprised on how well it works

hrdrvr
2010.12.13, 09:11 AM
Just wanted to say, I have run a couple packs of practice cells, a couple of qualifying heats and two ten minute mains with the front suspension. No lost e-clips, but I will admit, I removed the curbing from the track for our HFAY BTE event.

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/MBMZR/Members%20rides/Landon/2010-12-08_09-18-01_8.jpg

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/MBMZR/Members%20rides/Landon/2010-12-08_09-15-03_46.jpg

I will say, I put the low down set up on a different cat. I picked up one of the new PN motor pods, so I was able to build a complete RR package. I usually run a lot of RR parts, but finally got around to getting a pod that could handle the tri-shock. I will most likely do a little write-up about my build...at least show some pics of it in the RR section :D

I had some good runs in the HFAY BTE, which should be a pretty decent guage for me as to how well the car handles on a small tight track. I have ranked fairly well in the past, and hope to do so again this time. I had some clean runs, and even though it was my first time with the set up (finished bulding it friday afternoon right before our race night started), I managed to get within a few hundreths of the fast lap of the night. With some set up time, I am sure I could get another tenth or tw oout of the car, along with another lap or two out of the ten minute run.

unwritten
2010.12.16, 01:46 PM
my front end seems to hop more than usual. is this because the medium spring is too stiff for my car? it felt soft enough when i was setting it up. but as soon as i drive the car, the car started hopping in and out of corners. please help.....

mleemor60
2010.12.16, 02:10 PM
Additional grip on side loads may be peeling the tires up on the edges and creating the hop. Make sure inside edges are well attached also.

VAzRACER
2010.12.16, 03:01 PM
my front end seems to hop more than usual. is this because the medium spring is too stiff for my car? it felt soft enough when i was setting it up. but as soon as i drive the car, the car started hopping in and out of corners. please help.....

Try using a thick dampening grease on the king pins where they go thru the lower suspesion ball. Start with something around Kyosho 30,000 and work your way up from there if needed. It also helps to have just a little bit of droop in the front end, around .2mm would help and not affect the car very much.

CristianTabush
2010.12.16, 03:07 PM
Thanks Matt and Mike!

Exactly, as specified, also make sure your side wall is not too tall on your tires, or the additional grip generated by this front end will make your car chatter a bit.

I ALWAYS run with Grease in the front of my car, and like Matt said, we start with K30000 and move up.

I will be testing this set-up at the bumpiest track in the World (literally!!!) in a couple of weeks. I will give you guys more feedback on this.

We are looking into getting different spring rates as well, we are just trying to get the factory to get them right :)

hrdrvr
2010.12.16, 03:37 PM
When I first set this suspension up I really liked the balance of my car with the medium springs, and the tires (small glued side wall) and wheels I was running before. I had some chatter coming onto the straight (fastest corner on the layout) and in some of the bumpier spots. My balance was so good, I was scared to add any damping to the front. I opted to add a drop of the Kyosho oil that comes with the oil shock. It solved the chatter, didnt change the balance of my set up, and hasnt needed replacing yet. Even when I swapped the set up to a different car, the residue from the oil that was left in the lower ball was enough to keep the chatter down on the new set up.

CristianTabush
2010.12.16, 04:26 PM
Thanks for the feedback Landon!

chad508
2010.12.16, 04:52 PM
i too am loving this front end. ive been talking with landon about it and i feel it has taking so much slop out of the front end my driving has improved alot. the car feels more consistent and i feel more comfortable in driving the car a little harder. i have had to do very little if anything to this setup once i got it shimmed. i brush the rcp off the spring and may add a little bit of the kyosho 15000 grease and its all good. i feel this along with the tri shock make the car handle great. its the best and most consistent me and my cars have ever been. now i cant wait for the qteq t bar.

unwritten
2010.12.16, 08:25 PM
Cristian,
i was looking at some of the photos from your blog and noticed that your upper ball are thicker than the one that comes with the kit. i looked like the old delrin ball from the RR Long King Pin setup. the reason i wanted to know is because the thicker ball added 0.5 more preload on the suspension. i just wanted to adjust my preload accordingly. im still playing around with the preload and the ride height. i feel that my car is still lower at the back right now, even with a very small tires up front and a trued tires at the back. it feels like im still dragging the back a little. i wanted to see if i can slam the front with very little play on the suspension will change the characteristic of the car. but overall, i love the steering feels with this front end + the 4deg caster....

CristianTabush
2010.12.16, 08:28 PM
This is because it was a prototype. I now run the low profile balls. The settings are on the product page on the website.

Rune
2010.12.24, 05:40 AM
Click the pics for full review.

Nice and dirty.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2uRHE7AV3zs/TRPIalqDxnI/AAAAAAAAC7Q/NZ7-R95kCrc/s1600/IMG_7456.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2uRHE7AV3zs/TRPIbvkXufI/AAAAAAAAC7c/3W0Vf3xSBlg/s1600/IMG_7481.JPG (http://www.mini-znorway.com/2010/12/reflex-racing-low-profile-front.html)

unwritten
2011.02.16, 04:51 PM
I will be testing this set-up at the bumpiest track in the World (literally!!!) in a couple of weeks. I will give you guys more feedback on this.



Cristian,
any updates on the bumpy track testing?

arch2b
2011.08.14, 10:54 AM
we race on a very bumpy track as well and curious as to your opinion on it's effectiveness on a very bumpy track.

are the derlin balls the usual kind for sale on your site or special? i found all the parts for mine except for the derlin balls.

EMU
2011.08.14, 01:12 PM
The delrin balls are a little different, they are a little shorter, and allow for the spring to sit inside of the bottom of the lower ball. Without the special delrin ball, you really cannot use them as reverse kingpins, but can still run them as a standard kingpin setup similar to the long kingpin with spring above the upper arm...

arch2b
2011.08.14, 03:34 PM
thats what i was afraid of. i think i let those go with the sale of other parts not picking up on the slight differences. yep, right now i have it installled as as spring over. it's much stiffer than my original spring over with white springs.

EMU
2011.08.14, 04:40 PM
Which spring are you using? If you use Gold, then that is very stiff, black is a little too soft, I only use silver and have no issues with feeling that it is too stiff or too soft.

arch2b
2011.08.14, 04:43 PM
the silver, black do feel too soft. silver seem stiffer than spring over white.