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rensuchan
2010.10.26, 10:27 AM
I've seen a few mentions in past forum posts of people sanding slick tires to try to break them in / create a little bit of surface for added traction. I'm having understeer issues with my PN Front Slicks so I wanted to give this a try, it can't hurt right? I just wanted to get an idea from people that have done this before about a few things:

1) What Grit Sandpaper do you use / recommend?
2) Dry sand or wet sand? If wet, do you use water or some other solution for the moisture? Is there a good liquid for restoring softness to a tire?

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

EMU
2010.10.26, 12:00 PM
Try a rough grit around 200... It will help, but you may end up having to do it every run if you want consistent performance. The problem is that as you get later into the run, grip will continue to decrease as the tire gets smoother. Try it out, and see how you like it.

You can try cleaning the tire with WD40. It will give you an increased grip in the beginning and wear off a little as the race progresses, but check with your track official, as it may be considered as a traction compound because it does soften the compound a little.

If you know anyone with a tire truer, that would be the best option... Just a light scuff will make a huge difference. I did this with a set of PN F1 tires that the car pushed a lot, and then they had too much grip... :rolleyes:

rensuchan
2010.10.26, 01:30 PM
Thanks for the reply EMU

I had briefly tried to smooth the tires down a bit with a piece of 2000 grit paper that I had used on my DPS, do you think that will help at all or is the lower grit still a better idea?

Also, I don't think WD40 is allowed, the only things I've used thus far are rubbing alcohol and some natural cleaner from the grocery store.

will3kgt
2010.10.26, 02:40 PM
Just get 10 degree fronts or 8 degree fronts. That'll will take care of any understeer issues.

rensuchan
2010.10.26, 02:43 PM
Will,

You know I have the 10's too and they give me massive OVERSTEER... not to mention that they blistered like crazy. This is even with the PN 6 rears.

chad508
2010.10.26, 03:01 PM
what surface are you running on

rensuchan
2010.10.26, 03:50 PM
RCP, textured side.

Tjay
2010.10.26, 04:51 PM
Change setup or try different tires. Try not to get use to scuffing or applying sauce (or whatever it is that you want to put) on your tires. Not a good practice.

Run in down/Break them in and have fun on the track while doing it. :)

color01
2010.10.26, 05:15 PM
I'm with TJ on this point, relying on scuffing or traction compound is going to cover up potential setup issues that you could fix instead to have a better working car. I personally only scuff the tires when they have been sitting in open air for a long time, to refresh the surface. This is especially applicable to PN tires since the top surface dries out after a week -- if I want to keep using the same set of tires I have to true them a bit or scuff them with a sanding stick.

EMU
2010.10.26, 05:20 PM
Some tracks gum up the tires... Especially old tracks. Sometimes I use a razor and remove the gummy material... Although, ideally, the tire should be self cleaning... meaning when it is working properly, the tire wears instead of collecting the gummy material and getting shiny/smooth.

Try a Kyosho 30d front... see if it works better than what you are currently using. In general, the Kyosho tires are the most reliable tires in the market. And work excellent on most RCP. Some tracks require weird tires... but on 90% of the RCP tracks that I have raced on, Kyosho tires worked well.

rensuchan
2010.10.26, 05:23 PM
Suppose you guys are right.

I believe it's the PN 20's I'm using right now. The 15s rolled up too much and ended up with less grip than the 20's and the 10s give me way too much grip and also blister, so I guess I'll give kyosho front slicks a try. The 30's seem to be a popular choice, anyone matched these up with the PN 6 or 8 rears?

mleemor60
2010.10.26, 05:44 PM
Tell us more about the car itself. Is it an 02 or 03? What are you using for a "dif"? What motor? What pod? Which T-plate? what springs? What body? Everything matters. EVERYTHING.

Once you get your camber and springs worked out then you start to mess with caster and toe in. When that is settled you move to the rear of the car where almost everything you do has an effect on the front. For as simple a little car as they are it can be exasperating trying to tame an issue that might be as simple as a differential that is to tight or loose.

There is no magic set up. If the car is not comfortable for you to drive then you can't get the result you want. Once you get it where it is comfortable and consistent then you can start fine tuning with different tires and damper plate springs or whatever other part of the month you want to but first get it comfortable for you to drive. Go slow to go fast. It works everytime.

Tjay
2010.10.26, 06:19 PM
Some tracks gum up the tires... Especially old tracks. Sometimes I use a razor and remove the gummy material... Although, ideally, the tire should be self cleaning... meaning when it is working properly, the tire wears instead of collecting the gummy material and getting shiny/smooth.


First off, What's up Eugene!! Hey, Good luck on the race man!

That's what I was told to do also, "remove crap using blade on the tires". As time goes by and I've learned a lot just by spending crap load of time on the track, I found that you should NOT have to do this. I was running same tires at the same track without having to clean my front tires. When normally I would... You want to check your settings to make sure that you're not scrubbing speed.

EMU
2010.10.26, 07:57 PM
First off, What's up Eugene!! Hey, Good luck on the race man!

That's what I was told to do also, "remove crap using blade on the tires". As time goes by and I've learned a lot just by spending crap load of time on the track, I found that you should NOT have to do this. I was running same tires at the same track without having to clean my front tires. When normally I would... You want to check your settings to make sure that you're not scrubbing speed.
Thanks Tjay. I didnt see your name on the list :mad:

I just wanted to say that I rarely clean my tires... I try to make sure that I have tires that show wear on the specific track that I am racing on. If they dont, then they arent gripping enough. If they show too much wear, then they may be gripping too much and scrubbing speed. The tire should not blister either, that means it isnt gripping enough, and is creating too much friction and causing the tire to get too hot. I feel that tire wear is really an ideal way to set up the car... but if you are trying to get the car to work with the current tire on the car, manipulating the tire can give the results that you are looking for, even if it is a quick temporary solution like sanding or cleaning the tire.

He is looking to increase steering with the tires that originally had steering, but have lost it in time. Some compounds dont wear in the standard way, but glaze over (common for Atomic tires). There are only a couple tracks that I have driven on that have this effect on the tires, and they are typically very old, and worn, and produce very little RCP dust, and therefore wear the tire very little. I have used one set of ATM front tires for almost a year of weekly racing, and there is still plenty of tire left, as well as good balance in grip.

rensuchan
2010.10.27, 01:45 PM
@EMU

Kind of correct... the tires certainly were a bit grippier when I first got them, but the understeer was still present when they were new. I race at the Ann Arbor club with the owner of this site and I'm the newest racer there, I'm not sure how much they've used the track but it seems to me that there is a mix of newer RCP tiles and older RCP tiles, but the fronts did appear to be "glazed over" rather than worn smoothly like the rears were. When I went over the fronts with that 2000 grit paper it seemed to soften them up a little bit and restore some stickiness.

Could part of the wear issue be related to tires sliding around a bit due to the lack of tire tape / glue?

@mleemor60

Chassis: MR-02
Body: Lamborghini Murcielago

Front end setup:

PN 1.5 degree camber knuckle
PN 1.0 degree caster tower bar
Kyosho 0.8 Degree toe In tie rod
PN Alloy Wheels +0 offset
PN 15 or 20 degree front tires (Can't remember which for sure, but I think it's
the 20s because the 15s rolled up and became worse than the 20s. 10s were too soft and blistered horribly.)
3R red front spring (softest one I have)

Rear Setup:

Kyosho stock rear shock
3R DPS (hard spring top, soft spring bottom)
3R Alloy Motor Mount (only one hardness for attached plates unfortunately)
3R Outer Tune Ball Diff rebuilt with PN 64 Pitch Gears
PN 70t Motor
PN Alloy Wheels +3 offset
PN 8 degree rear tires (I have 6 as well but tried 8 to see if I could
get the rear to bite a little less and kill some understeer, seems to
have helped a little bit)

Wondering if the offset of the Murcielago body is why the rear stays planted so well and I have understeer.

mleemor60
2010.10.27, 02:34 PM
Your set up isn't that far from what I would run except for the tires. I would use Kyosho 30 front and 20 rears for consistency. The Murci body can have issues with the rolling assembly interfering with the front lower windshield tabs which can create all sorts of havoc. Especially with the soft spring set up you have chosen. Try the slightly stiffer green springs and see if it helps. Shorten up on your travel limiters as well.Pay close attention to the adjustment with that particular Differential as it tends to loosen up very easily which in turn can give you a bit of understeer. I really liked that dif when it first came out because it was easy to adjust on the fly. I gave up on it though when I couldn't find a nut that would hold the settings. In reality it should have been a left hand thread on that side so it wouldn't loosen itself on acceleration.

Keep us posted.

rensuchan
2010.11.08, 02:00 PM
Racing this Saturday, I'll update then. I smoothed out my PN tires with 2000 grit paper, and I also have some Kyosho 20 rears, 30 fronts, and 20 fronts to play with along with the PN 6, 8 rears and 10, 15, 20 fronts I already have. I'm sure I'll find some sort of combination that works for me lol.

Also...

Re: 3R Outer Tuned Diff.

I've found that PN Racing Lock nuts hold really well for me... I just finished buying them for all of my cars.

herman
2010.11.08, 10:07 PM
nice read... and losta good advice here... especially this one...

Go slow to go fast. It works everytime.

such sage advise from a wise road wizard... :D

i heard it a looong time ago... and it sounded so silly... but when you think of it, it's just one of those things that you have to go along with...
it is really sooo silly that it just really works...

actually there's logic to it... going around the track fast, you are prone to committing errors, missing a line here and there, going into a retaining wall there... running into a fellow competitor here... etc. etc...

you won't commit as much errors if you were going slower... and in that sense, you go faster around the track resulting in lower lap times...

consistency is the key... as you get more consistent and more familiar with the racing line, you can eventually give your car a little more juice, just enough for you to be in control... speed without control is nothing... :D

but i guess a lot of you know this by now... :D

rensuchan
2010.11.08, 11:24 PM
I think I've been racing the MR-02 for about 4 months now...

I made the mistake of buying a F1 before the MR-02 because I'm a F1 fan... but I definitely should have started driving the MR first... I broke something on the F1 every week (replaced with an aluminum replacement every time something broke lol) and it's currently out of service for the moment anyway :(

I'm at the point with the MR where I feel like I can go a little faster, but the push is what's stopping me from doing it.. so in turn I started this thread :)

EMU
2010.11.08, 11:33 PM
In stock, I typically drive a pushy car. Mod, I like a little more steering. Pushy cars tend to slow down less when you steer, but you have to control the radius of the corner with throttle/brake. Too much push isnt good, but you want a little... too much steering is typically worse than having a pushy car.

geeunit1014
2010.11.09, 12:29 AM
In stock, I typically drive a pushy car. Mod, I like a little more steering. Pushy cars tend to slow down less when you steer, but you have to control the radius of the corner with throttle/brake. Too much push isnt good, but you want a little... too much steering is typically worse than having a pushy car.

+1 on that.. A great example of using tire tuning to your advantage was what I did at the worlds.. I was using PN 8 fronts, trued to 22mm. I could have ran them bigger (say 22.5), but with that the car was on the ragged edge, if I put a perfect lap together the car was amazing, but it was all too easy to make it dig in and sometimes traction roll. But at 22, it was very consistent and super easy to drive. I could have set a better hotlap with the bigger front, but an 8 minute run would be much better with the smaller tires.

rensuchan
2010.11.15, 09:50 AM
So I put some Kyosho 30's up front along with PN 8 on the rear.... result was Oversteer, but only slightly! So I swapped to the PN 6 rears and immediately traction rolled the fastest corner on the track... so I went to a stiffer front setup and that was it. I love the balance on it now... now I just need to work on consistency and then I'll start trying to go faster :)