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View Full Version : HFAY getting faster lap times


GRK
2011.03.02, 05:47 PM
Hi,
I'm currently racing in the hfay series and can't seem to get past the 85 lap mark ( fastest lap so far is 5.1 on track 2 season 11) . My setup consist of:

Mr03 98mm mclaren f1 gtr
pn disc damper (medium spring on top, soft spring on bottom)
reflex low profile front
pn reconfigured lcg motor pod
pn70t motor
reflex medium t plate

After reading some forums it looks like I may have picked the wrong chassis for this... at least with the body 3w and 2.5n wheel offset. Should I maybe get a body with 0 wheel offset and keep it wide?

I know that I need practice, but do I need to change my setup a bit?

color01
2011.03.02, 06:38 PM
Practice first -- once you can make it a full round of HFAY without hitting the walls more than 5 times then you can start dealing with the fact that the McLaren longtail GTR is a HUGE body. ;) For HFAY I know many people run smaller bodies, such as the shorttail McLaren F1 LM, Ferrari F430/GT or 360/GTC. There's nothing blatantly wrong with your chassis setup, it's just that HFAY tracks are small so you have to be working towards agility, which is not the longtail McLaren's strong suit.

Mike Keely
2011.03.02, 06:49 PM
Do you find that when you bump the side rails that it grabs the car and pulls it into the side rails? If so you may need to go to a front rim that will not hit the foam side rails. If the front tires hit the foam rail it spins the car out pulling it into the wall. If you have a +1 front rim give it a try. It will keep the front wheels way under the front of the body.

The fast guys on here can drive a good lines for sure but it is more important at first to make sure your car is easy to drive. If you hit the wall you want your car to just brush off the wall and not get stuck in the wall.

Another way to make it easier to drive may be to take some of the steering dual rate out. A good starting point would be 1 and 1/4 tiles to turn the car around 180 degrees. To check this, put the cars left side against the left side rail. Turn the wheel all the way to the right and pull the trigger so the car moves very slowly. See how much space it takes for the car to turn around a full 180 degrees. If it can do a 180 in 1/2 of a tile space, take some of the steering out until it takes the full 1 and 1/4 tiles to do a 180. Check the other direction also to keep it the same travel in both directions left and right.

One of the biggest things I find when people have a hard time controling the car is the edge of the rear tires rolling over. The very soft tires we use today roll over on the outside edge. The Kyosho tire tape is the best thing to use so the tire stays put and gives the best traction.

Hope this helps and let us know if it does. We can give more tips as you go so let us know. MK

GRK
2011.03.02, 08:28 PM
I don't hit walls too much, but my steering is a bit twitchy... My lines are not as clean as they could be as a result. Sounds like the next step would be to turn down the dual rate steering.

briankstan
2011.03.03, 09:04 AM
I'm not the fastest and I know others will have even faster laps. I know that some of us were turning in laps in the 4.62 second range.

for the HFAY tracks it's all about carrying a good line, keeping consistent and maintaining your speed.

you have to figure that for ever spinout, or wreck that can cost you lots of laps with the very short lap times. 1 wreck or spinout can almost cost you a whole lap. This is why it's important to run as clean as possible.

We have guys that when racing especially in HFAY they don't realize that if a car is faster, just let them pass clean rather than try to fight for position, in the end it's better for both of you :)

I'm not sure of the format that other clubs run, but we do it pretty simply, doesn't give us the best results but we don't have time to run qualifying and much practice at all. We set the track up and run all the races in the same night along with our overlands and monster trucks. the hardest part for me is changing directions. that usually cost me 5-7 laps or more.

Best advice is to get as much track time as you can, and do the best you can. Some of these guys are just wicked fast!! :eek:

geeunit1014
2011.03.03, 10:16 AM
Pace wise, a different body will probably help you the most. For our club, 94mm cars are the most popular (Ferrari 430 or Lexus 430).

Driving wise, avoiding mistakes is huge. Since it is so hard to simply "brush off" of an RCP barrier, it really is better to eat a few tenths and not hit the wall. With the HFAY tracks being so small, it works out to roughly every 2 times you eliminate being stopped in the wall and having to reverse, you add a lap. Like color01 said, <5 mistakes is a pretty decent run ;)

GRK
2011.03.04, 09:05 PM
Well for my next race I'm going to try and decrease the steering rate. I think driving wise this will be a big improvement and make it easier to hold my line.

Besides that though would switching my body from the mclaren f1 gtr to the mclaren f1 lm be a good idea? Is there maybe a better choice?

mdowney
2011.03.05, 04:48 AM
Pick up a Lexus SC430 or a Ferrari F430/F360. You will notice a big difference over the F1.

GRK
2011.03.05, 06:45 AM
Aren't those 94mm bodies? I'm trying to stay with 98mm for now.

color01
2011.03.05, 07:52 AM
94 mm typically dominates HFAY. Pure physics at work, shorter cars are more nimble. ;)

VAzRACER
2011.03.05, 08:03 AM
Instead of decreasing your steering dual rate, if you radio is capable try adding some negative curve to your steering. -10 is a good number for me when I need it. It will help take some of the edge off the steering response but allow you to keep the same turning radius.

chad508
2011.03.05, 08:18 AM
if you want 98 try the normal mclaren, are the mosler. the mosler has proven to many to be a good body

chris130256
2011.03.05, 10:10 AM
Don't get blinded by technology and think you need to change/upgrade the car. I run a 94mm and a 98mm 03 in Hfay and the 98 is the easier to drive consistanly. You don 't mention which tires you run? IIMO this is the most important decision for fast times. Kyosho 30 front and 20 rears are choise of the top guys at our club (HerefordF28UK). Match up the 30 fronts to 0 or +1 wheels and leave the +3's on the back. Going slow into the corners will help you get tighter lines and more control exiting.
Practise, practise, practise.
Good luck.

Mike Keely
2011.03.05, 04:26 PM
If you are going to stick with the 98 for now the Enzo or the Mosler are the bodies to run. +1 front rims with kyosho 30 slicks with half of the tire trued down and +3 rear rims with PN 8's or Kyosho 20's. The radials have a little more traction while the tread is there but get a little slippery when they get close to being a slick. The mosler body is the best for not getting stuck on the walls when you brush them. White front springs and a #3 carbon fiber T bar. Hope this helps.

briankstan
2011.03.05, 06:35 PM
keep in mind that setups will differ with the tracks traction as well. typically the tracks on the coast have better grip then inland and cooler climates. if you have time you can mist the track with water about 3 hours before racing on it. this will bring traction up as well. We never have time to do this, but I have done it and it does help a lot. the moisture sure brings up the grip.

mdowney
2011.03.05, 08:50 PM
For 98mm I'm really liking the new Ferrari 599xx. I do +3 all around and use a but of Velcro over the side body clips to make the rear fenders stick out a bit and make clearance for the wider stance in the back (learned this from @Sagisi).

I've only run this a few times recently, using a 33T mod motor, but I really like it. For stock I prefer the SC430 or the F430.

GRK
2011.03.06, 01:18 PM
Right now I'm running kyosho 20's in the rear, and something comparable to kyosho 30's in the front. I can't remember what it is, but has a good amount of traction.

I have a kt18 transmitter. I don't do anything with it besides trim my car so it tracks straight (and it tracks perfectly). So, should I take some of the steering out? Will this hurt me because of a decreased turning radius?

I'm also going to get the smaller mclaren body. So smaller offset should help, right? I really don't want to change from a 98 to a 94 just yet, maybe next season.

Like every body says I need to improve on driving first then worry about getting the perfect setup. My car is really easy to drive for the most part. The only thing is I don't hold a perfectly clean line. I'm twitchy when I almost hit another car or wall (but usually avoid both)... So maybe turning down my steering rate would be the best solution for that. I know I'm losing sometime from avoiding collisions.

chad508
2011.03.06, 01:54 PM
if it were me i would like at getting the mosler first. the little mac uses 0's all around and it can be a hand full if you have never ran one. i run the mosler with +1 fronts and +2 rears and it is great. if you go little mac you might as well go 94

GRK
2011.03.06, 02:40 PM
The one thing that would be nice is being able to use a top shock. So with that in mind maybe the:

Mustang
M3
benz slr
DB9

What would be ideal? I want something faster in the turns and to be able to use a top shock.

mdowney
2011.03.06, 02:54 PM
The DBR9 is the only body from that list that's worth racing - and you'd want to trim off the front spoiler/lip so it doesn't get stuck under the rails.

You can fit a top shock under the 599xx and Mosler. Have you tried running a DDS instead? I prefer that for stock.

Also, are you running the stock Kyosho motor or the PN70 stock motor? The PN is faster...

GRK
2011.03.06, 03:02 PM
I am using a pn DDS. It works great, so I don't absolutely need the top shock. It just seems like its needed after doing much research. I also use a medium reflex t plate, so I know if you're using a softer t plate you need a top shock.

What about the Mclaren f1 lm? Thats my top choice as of right now.

I'm running a pn70t currently with a kyosho ball diff and 8t pinion. It really doesn't seem all that much faster than the stock kyosho motor to be honest. Myabe a 7t pinion would be better.

color01
2011.03.06, 06:57 PM
Instead of a top shock, an easy way to get the bump stiffness you need is to just put a grub screw into the last T-plate mounting hole, and let it touch the T-plate when the car is at rest. This will give you a solid pivot point for the suspension to move around, which makes the car feel much better, and you get a little more bump stiffness as well if that's all you wanted the top shock for. Grub screws are cheap, I'd definitely try this before trying out a top shock and all the tuning possibilities/cost associated with one.

The F1 LM is a very quick body and very nimble, just 1) you need to make sure you have traction and 2) it likes to dig into the rails a little. Scotch-taping the front bumper will help a bit here, but it's mainly the angled front lip that's causing the problem.

vash
2011.03.07, 10:31 AM
I ran the McLaren F1 GTR and the autoscale on my first mr03 at it seemed to be a big heavy body. The car was stable and really easy to drive but I got killed in corners. I can't say it was just the body, the driver had something to do with it I'm sure. I liked the LM McLaren but switched to 94mm and doubt I'll go back to 98mm. I run the F430 and F430 GT for HFAY.

As far as going faster, I've been given a lot of very good advise that's worked for me. Good batteries and a broken in motor for stock class will do a lot for your car. You mentioned dropping to a 7t pinion but I would probably go the other direction with a taller gear. Most guys I know that run standard pitch run a 9t or 10t pinion. For me, breaking in new motors, good batteries, consistent setup and a lot of practice have helped the most. Also, I've been told that slower can be faster, keeping a tight line and throttle control should improve laptimes.

GRK
2011.03.07, 05:55 PM
I think I might be able to convert my car without changing anything but one piece on my motor mount. I have the PN reconfigured motor mount (MR2999B) and all I need is the motor plate (MR2999RB). Does anyone else own this motor mount? Do I need to change t plates and dds? It doesn't look like I would have to change anything except that one part for 10 dollars.

Is this the way to go? Or should I just keep it simple and go for the mclaren f1 lm?

chad508
2011.03.07, 06:00 PM
it should have 2 sets of hole on the bottom plate to allow you to move the entire rearend forward into the 94 position. if you can take a pic that would help a lot in giving you info

GRK
2011.03.07, 06:11 PM
The holes are there, but the motor will hit where the t plate mounts to the assembly. I need a different motor plate to mount the motor slightly higher. I think all I need is this part:MR2996AB

This is what I own:

http://www.kenonhobby.com/PN-Racing-Mini-Z-2WD-98mm-Reconfigurable-Carbon-Fiber-Motor-Mount-Blue_p_42579.html

This is what I think I need:

http://www.kenonhobby.com/PN-Racing-Mini-Z-94mm-Motor-Plate-for-MR2996-MR2999-Blue_p_42594.html

color01
2011.03.07, 11:30 PM
For changing to 94mm, yes that is all you will need. ;) Of course you'll need a body to top it off, but again, drive first tune later.

GRK
2011.03.15, 06:51 PM
Well last race I did noticeably better and got the most laps since I started racing in Hfay. I also got my fastest lap which was 4.79.

I trimmed my car and then made sure the turning radius was the same in both directions. From there I just practiced and kept track of my lap times to figure out the fastest way around the track. I do however notice I hit walls more than I thought. Definitely more than 5 times. So I still have that to practice on.

I noticed my car hopping around a bit. Could this be caused by my rear tires not being glued? I tape them but I'm using 3 year old tape. Should I get some newer/better tire tape? Could this be a suspension problem?

geeunit1014
2011.03.16, 12:38 AM
Could be either one. With the PN tape, you definitely have to glue the edges down. With the R246 tape, only if you notice excessive sidewall deformation.

Too stiff suspension can cause chattering, especially if something is binding.

hrdrvr
2011.03.16, 07:56 AM
I only use tire tape to keep the glue minimized on my wheels. I haven't used the R246 tape, but I know super glue holds :D It does depend on what tires you are using too. PN tires seems to hold onto the rim better than Kyosho, but I still glue everything.

Lack of damping causes chattering too, especially with some of the newer suspensions on the market today.

Most people make more mistakes than they think. When you sit down and count them, it makes you realize how much time is lost sitting still, or backing up on the track. I shoot for 3-5 mistakes per race, and try and slow my car down, and run a line where I can actually achieve this. It costs me in lap times, but I turn out more laps for it.

EMU
2011.03.16, 11:51 AM
I recommend video taping your runs, as well as the fast guys that you race with... this way you can review your lines, and see how many errors you make, and compare with the fast guys...

GRK
2011.03.17, 09:45 PM
Could be either one. With the PN tape, you definitely have to glue the edges down. With the R246 tape, only if you notice excessive sidewall deformation.

Too stiff suspension can cause chattering, especially if something is binding.

I'm confused about the rear end chattering after reading some forums. Is it that too soft or too stiff of a suspension can cause chatter for different reasons?

My current setup for the rear is:
medium reflex mm t plate
pn dds with medium spring on top, soft spring on the bottom and kyosho shock oil for dampening

Front:
reflex low profile with medium springs (silver)
reflex upper arm

I ordered the r246 tape. Obviously the tires are the starting point of tuning, but I'm curious to see what people think about this setup.

geeunit1014
2011.03.17, 10:41 PM
I'm confused about the rear end chattering after reading some forums. Is it that too soft or too stiff of a suspension can cause chatter for different reasons?

My current setup for the rear is:
medium reflex mm t plate
pn dds with medium spring on top, soft spring on the bottom and kyosho shock oil for dampening

Front:
reflex low profile with medium springs (silver)
reflex upper arm

I ordered the r246 tape. Obviously the tires are the starting point of tuning, but I'm curious to see what people think about this setup.


Your setup doesnt sound very one way or the other, my guess is itd be the tires. If you werent using the R246 tape and not gluing the tires down, id say that was it. Even with the R246 tape, I will still glue the tire down if I think it is rolling up excessively.

GRK
2011.03.18, 12:42 AM
I've been just using some pn tape and the rear tires do roll. I did order some r246 tape so hopefully that does the trick... if not then I'm going to use glue.

chris b
2011.03.21, 05:06 PM
Do you all run the standard diameter or the 21.5mm wheels?

I am running the larger wheels & am not taping or gluing the tires on :eek: (can't be bothered with the hastle to be honest) I agree with the mosler body though it is excellent at bouncing off walls without losing time.

Mike Keely
2011.03.21, 09:57 PM
I use the 246 tape in the rear and it works great. The fronts I use the PN tape and CA glue the outside edge. I true the front tire so small that I do not trust just tape alone. I use the 20mm rims front and rear.

geeunit1014
2011.03.21, 11:41 PM
Do you all run the standard diameter or the 21.5mm wheels?

I am running the larger wheels & am not taping or gluing the tires on :eek: (can't be bothered with the hastle to be honest) I agree with the mosler body though it is excellent at bouncing off walls without losing time.

For this past race I went back and forth between 19mm and 20mm fronts actually. I ended up running 19s going cw, and 20s going ccw as the track seemed to make the car less stable going ccw. I always run 20mm rears