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bermbuster
2011.07.04, 08:58 AM
Kyosho is having a "box stock" race on July 30 at there HQs in Lake Forest,CA.
The track is carpet and it does not have a huge straight section.
Im trying to decide on what body, wheelbase and track width to use.
I believe the only hop up allowed will be tires.......You can only use the parts that came w the readyset.....:cool: The car must be configured as it comes out of the box....rm,mm,rml,hm etc....
Im thinking of using a Mclaren F1 Longtail. (98mm,mm,wide)
What are you going to run or what would you use......
Thanks for any and all input.....:D

mleemor60
2011.07.04, 09:12 AM
The little Mac instead of the big Mac. Light weight. Short overhangs. Low center of gravity. Excellent handling charactaristics Downside. Very hard to win a fight cause everything is heavier. Still very tough to beat though.

Just my opinion.

greenepa76
2011.07.04, 11:08 AM
I agree with mleemor on this one. You'll be seeing a few of those on the track already.;)

bermbuster
2011.07.04, 11:20 AM
the Little Mac was my first choice too...but when I ran it in the past I would get beat up by the bigger bullies.....:cool: I could pull something out of my collection too....maybe a mercedes slr......:D

mleemor60
2011.07.04, 11:47 AM
Berm. What kind of motor tricks are you going to use? Do you have to use the one that comes with the car or can you replace like with like. Can the circuit breaker be removed.

greenepa76
2011.07.04, 12:13 PM
This is a box stock class with no motor mods. Still debating on the use of some upgrade parts by Kyosho VP, but no motor tricks. Maybe just break in what you have, but I'll be installing a brand new Kyosho stock motor in mine fresh out of package so there are no doubts if I decide to run this class.

A bit off topic and my apologies, but to note:
Several of us So Cal regulars are not happy w/ the decision to allow mods that make it nearly a US spec car minus a few things. This would mean you'd have to spend around and extra 100 dollars to be a little more competitive if the spec cars are allowed. I'm out of this one if that is case, though I do have all the parts Kyosho offers that will make it a J/US spec car. Some of the more seasoned drivers will know how to use these items to their advantage if that is allowed. But to the unseasoned driver, that would mean extra expense and lack of tuning knowledge to know how to use these items. Not a good situation for new people who are interested in mini z's for the first time since the elevated playing field has been elevated.

mleemor60
2011.07.04, 12:24 PM
I am pretty close to total agreement with you. I think bearings should be open and if there is to be a screw type motor allowed it should come from
3Racing as they seem to manufacture the majority if not all the bits for K/246. Beyond that I would be extremely careful about what is allowed.

Sinister_Y
2011.07.04, 12:26 PM
I definately vote for the McLaren F1 LM (not long tail). It is nimble and super light, a plus when running a box stock class.

If possible, run a white body to keep it as light as possible. Paint only those things that make it look like a car, i.e. grills, turn indicators, but leave the body largely unpainted. that should save additional weight. Remember power to weight ratio is key for box stock as well as carrying as much speed into corners as possible (without scrubbing too much off).

LED
2011.07.04, 01:44 PM
I do partly agree on that.
Here in my club (belgium) we race stock.
Stock motor, stock plastic parts.
Only hopups allowed are toe-in out bars, bearings and a kyosho oil shock.
Also alu tower bar 0 because the arms of a MR02 tend to break easy.

The reason I do not fully agree is because of the damping.
There is none, well side to side not. If you take a car like the little mclaren you are very small in width to. Offsets 0 front and 0 rear. I am noticing in our club that people running these offsets (also ferrari's) have more trouble with grip roll.
I personaly run a murcielagowith -1 front and +2 rear. This gives me a little more stability through the corners. And instead of grip rolling my car tends to start shattering and jumping in the corner. wich for me isnt that big of a problem because it keeps going rather then ending on its roof.

Now I have never raced mod motors. Only PN T80 and X-speed motors and I can tell you if you do not have circuit with and endless straight piece the stock motor isnt that much slower. In general on a 10 sec track is was 0.3 to 0.5 sec slower.

I actually like the stock class more then our mod class.

bermbuster
2011.07.04, 03:42 PM
I am pretty close to total agreement with you. I think bearings should be open and if there is to be a screw type motor allowed it should come from
3Racing as they seem to manufacture the majority if not all the bits for K/246. Beyond that I would be extremely careful about what is allowed.

My thinking is "box stock"......if it didnt come in the kyosho box it isnt allowed....
Im going to buy a brand new readyset(is it called that) mr-03 and then install an out of the box autoscale body and wheels....
I know all the tricks and you know what....im on a quest to keep it simple.....
Lets show the world what a box stock mini z can do....
No tricks...no fancy tuning.....just simple racing if there still exists what I am seeking.....:cool:

yasuji
2011.07.04, 04:25 PM
if it is a BOX STOCK class i think i will get an MR02 ex!:cool:
and race it with the KT18....

color01
2011.07.05, 01:22 AM
if it is a BOX STOCK class i think i will get an MR02 ex!:cool:
and race it with the KT18....
This is actually exactly what I'm thinking. The MR-03 chassis sets and MR02EX RTR's are perfect for Box Stock racing and I'm honestly very against any form of tuning for a class like this. You want everyone to have as close to an equal machine as possible, and the more tuning variables and less regulation is involved, the easier it is for one car to be significantly better than another.

Body of choice would be whatever handles walls the best -- I believe that would be the Murcielago. Although in terms of looks I'd fancy the GT-R or FXX... :)

bermbuster
2011.07.05, 06:56 AM
This is actually exactly what I'm thinking. The MR-03 chassis sets and MR02EX RTR's are perfect for Box Stock racing and I'm honestly very against any form of tuning for a class like this. You want everyone to have as close to an equal machine as possible, and the more tuning variables and less regulation is involved, the easier it is for one car to be significantly better than another.

Body of choice would be whatever handles walls the best -- I believe that would be the Murcielago. Although in terms of looks I'd fancy the GT-R or FXX... :)

not the 599.....:cool:

color01
2011.07.05, 09:31 AM
Oh, I'm only even considering the MR-02EX available readyset bodies. :) If I race Box Stock with you guys I'm in no way shelling out any more than I have to. :D

new2miniz
2011.07.05, 10:38 AM
the body to use is.............

the BATMOBILE!

how badass would that be ripping around the track! :cool:

bermbuster
2011.07.05, 11:36 AM
the body to use is.............

the BATMOBILE!

how badass would that be ripping around the track! :cool:

with or without the machine guns......:D
I have the Batmobile too....

bermbuster
2011.07.05, 08:04 PM
I made my decision.....
I picked up my box stock mr-03. it is going to stay in the box until the race....:cool:

unless the rules change the only hop ups are bearings (no ceramics)
and the yellow top shock (mzw207)

I believe we will have a gentlemans agreement and run "box stock" even though the rules will allow the 2 hop ups.....I will have the hop ups on hand....just in case......(i really dont want to use them!!!!)

greenepa76
2011.07.05, 08:18 PM
I might as well get a car ready too. I'm not sure if I'm doing the box stock or not yet. Thank you for setting an example Bermbuster! I'll have my "upgrade" parts on hand also should it be necessary, but I'll run as stock as possible. The gear diff doesn't do too bad there if you can tune it right.

EMU
2011.07.05, 08:26 PM
I am curious whether spring changes will be permitted in the box stock class?

In general, I would think that an MM body would be better, but RM may not be too poor depending on layout.

I personally would go with an LM, since it comes with a DDS ;) For a tight track, it may be limiting, but tire choice may be more limiting since you must use the kit wheels according to the rules.

blt456
2011.07.05, 09:04 PM
Mr03 chassis set with a lexus sc430! :D

bermbuster
2011.07.05, 09:31 PM
Mr03 chassis set with a lexus sc430! :D

out of the box it is a rm....a plastic one at that.....:D

blt456
2011.07.05, 09:44 PM
The rules say the chassis can be in any config, so a mm sc430 should be ok :D
I guess people would have to polish their front suspensions but that sounds like a fun class!

color01
2011.07.05, 11:06 PM
I am curious whether spring changes will be permitted in the box stock class?

In general, I would think that an MM body would be better, but RM may not be too poor depending on layout.

I personally would go with an LM, since it comes with a DDS ;) For a tight track, it may be limiting, but tire choice may be more limiting since you must use the kit wheels according to the rules.
As per gentlemen's agreement, they're going NO dampers allowed except the stock black plastic pieces that come with the base-trim MR02/MR03. :cool:

For a Box Stock race RM wouldn't lose out at all I think, since the motor's so weak you might as well aim to be the smallest and lightest car on the field without having too little weight over the rear end (looking at you, McLarens!). If I were to actually care about winning, you can bet I'd be picking the Maker's FD3S or the F355 Challenge.

In any case, I think we're putting too much thought into this. Base-trim MR02/MR03, pick a body shape you aesthetically like, put it down on the track! Making this too competitive is just asking for trouble.

herman
2011.07.11, 05:51 AM
wondering what is your take on modifying the box stock parts...
i.e. polishing the stock kingpins in the 02 and 03... or packing the gear diff with some kind of grease to improve handling... or like even breaking in the stock motor...

strictly speaking it is still box stock... with some kind of enhancements...

would really love to see a vid of this class...

color01
2011.07.11, 08:57 AM
Mm... 02 needs polishing, 03 not really. I fell in love with the 03 at first because out of the box it's already so smooth -- slap on a disk damper and the right motor/gearing and it's almost competitive for normal "Stock" class.

As for grease, I used to for drifting but not for racing -- I set my ball diffs to as loose as I can get away with, why would I tighten up a gear diff that's freer by nature? :) The on-power gear-tooth leverage provides enough LSD effect as is to keep the car from diffing out, so long as you're not actually lifting the inside rear wheel.

I still don't break in my motors, haha... fine by me and the gentlemen's agreement going on, should I race Box Stock.

I would seriously just run the 03, Box Stock with a 9t pinion and a mildly shimmed front end (only using the shims in the RTR package!) and be satisfied with it.

yasuji
2011.07.11, 01:07 PM
imo the 02ex will be the better car.... it has a more compliant front end as far as the front end polished king pins will not be permitted... but kingpin oil is allowed!
the problem i see with the 03 is that it has far to stiff front springs.... and spring changes are not allowed!
alex m got a brand new 02ex yesterday changed the pinion/tires/bearings and was as fast if not faster than the gt stk cars!:D

greenepa76
2011.07.11, 01:48 PM
I agree.....as I ran both of these cars! Big fat Nissan GTR MR02 vs. Narrow featherweight Ferrari 355 MR03 and the fat Nissan still out cornered the little Ferrari, which accelerated quickly, but squirrely through the turns. Little bumps didn't affect the Nissan either, but then again, the 02 is heavier.

herman
2011.07.13, 04:03 AM
kinda liking the discussion... as to what chassis / body combo everybody will use...
anybody daring enough to run the short wheel based cars - lancia stratos? or probably a porsche 934? or any high mount chassis with high mount bodies? wonder how they will do in this type of race... :D

herman
2011.07.13, 04:10 AM
just curious...
maybe you guys can make a list as to what body chassis you are going to race in this class?
format (driver) (chassis - mr02/mr03) (body)

took the liberty of putting berms ride since it looks like he already got his...
(feel free to cut and paste)

1 bermbuster - mr03 - mclaren
2
3

color01
2011.07.13, 05:16 AM
kinda liking the discussion... as to what chassis / body combo everybody will use...
anybody daring enough to run the short wheel based cars - lancia stratos? or probably a porsche 934? or any high mount chassis with high mount bodies? wonder how they will do in this type of race... :D
I can't find any Strati for sale anymore! :( Otherwise this would be my go-to body just to have some fun!

Sadly I still can't make the July 30th but if there are any more of these in the future...

1 bermbuster - MR03 - McLaren F1 (short tail)
2 color0 - MR03 - FD3S :cool:
3

herman
2011.07.18, 03:34 AM
hmm.. anybody else?

EMU
2011.07.18, 07:42 AM
I battled with a Box Stock Porsche GT3R (minus bearings, wheels and tires) against Brian's FD3S on Saturday... such close racing, our lap times were nearly identical, in qualify we had .02s difference between our fastest laps.

new2miniz
2011.07.18, 09:27 AM
I can't find any Strati for sale anymore! :( Otherwise this would be my go-to body just to have some fun!



There is one available on Italy's ebay. buy it now for $29 EUROS

***edit***
Sorry, i should not have posted the link. The ebay item number is: 110713846884

you would have to check if they will ship overseas. usually not a problem.

thanks, and sorry mods!

Racer-HH
2011.07.18, 10:55 AM
Hm, my posting somehow disappeared. :confused:

So, here again. I do not run RTR - usally all my cars have hop-ups. But I tested some time ago a 911 GT1 and was pretty impressed by the handling ootb.

color01
2011.07.18, 02:37 PM
There is one available on Italy's ebay. buy it now for $29 EUROS

The ebay item number is: 110713846884
Haha, thanks for the effort man. It's expensive though, what with the US -> Euro rate right now. :o

The 911 GT1 is very good out of the box actually -- since the cars are slow, you can take advantage of its corner speed and precision placement and its poor wall handling is less of a problem.

Mrs Mini-Z
2011.07.18, 04:25 PM
Just enjoying this thread - it's cool to see what bodies are favorites (I'm kind of a Batmobile girl myself). So, in case you haven't decided yet what body you'd like to run for the Summer Shootout, I'd like to offer a $5 coupon off of any AutoScale (http://shop.tinyrc.com/home.php?cat=379) at shop.tinyrc.com (http://shop.tinyrc.com/). Just use the coupon code SUMMERSHOOTOUT at checkout to redeem your savings. The coupon is only good until July 29th though. :cool:

Also, we're making sure we have the stock parts you might need a spare of available. As always, if there something you need, just contact me at shophelp@tinyrc.com

Happy shopping & Happy Racing!
Thanks,
Mrs. Mini-Z aka Meridith :)

unicorn
2011.07.18, 05:55 PM
Just enjoying this thread - it's cool to see what bodies are favorites (I'm kind of a Batmobile girl myself). So, in case you haven't decided yet what body you'd like to run for the Summer Shootout, I'd like to offer a $5 coupon off of any AutoScale (http://shop.tinyrc.com/home.php?cat=379) at shop.tinyrc.com (http://shop.tinyrc.com/). Just use the coupon code SUMMERSHOOTOUT at checkout to redeem your savings. The coupon is only good until July 29th though. :cool:

Also, we're making sure we have the stock parts you might need a spare of available. As always, if there something you need, just contact me at shophelp@tinyrc.com

Happy shopping & Happy Racing!
Thanks,
Mrs. Mini-Z aka Meridith :)

Great Meridith is a good news for many people, is wonderful buy at this store, your customer service is unique

Many thanks
Juan Carlos

reaper
2011.07.18, 06:19 PM
if it is a BOX STOCK class i think i will get an MR02 ex!:cool:
and race it with the KT18....

the club i race at is stock only cars .....so i bought the cup edition ;)

herman
2011.07.19, 03:09 AM
such close racing, our lap times were nearly identical, in qualify we had .02s difference between our fastest laps.

geez... that must have been real fun... and sooo close... :D

herman
2011.07.19, 04:09 AM
the club i race at is stock only cars .....so i bought the cup edition
what's a cup edition? and what body do you run?

kyoshosan
2011.07.19, 09:11 AM
Box stock is a great idea, I used to promoted that kind of race a lot at my club back in the old days :-) One question tough, Which radios were allowed ? I hope that only KT-18, because that too can make a huge difference in the performance, tunning, of the car.

I think it is about time for Kyosho America to bring the Mini-Z Cup to North America (US & Canada).

When and where will be this race ?

arch2b
2011.07.19, 03:44 PM
...One question tough, Which radios were allowed ? I hope that only KT-18...

i hope not! i never kept mine (have an ex-10) and NOT paying $80-140+ for the kt-18 when you can get the 5ur for a little more.

kyoshosan
2011.07.19, 06:27 PM
i hope not! i never kept mine (have an ex-10) and NOT paying $80-140+ for the kt-18 when you can get the 5ur for a little more.

But then, you can't called it "Box Stock" :-)

arch2b
2011.07.19, 06:44 PM
Sure. It's not called box stock anymore anyway and chassis sets do not have transmitters.

bermbuster
2011.07.19, 08:34 PM
Sure. It's not called box stock anymore anyway and chassis sets do not have transmitters.

box stock chassis set.....;)

My KT-18 broke from all the use I gave it.....:cool: the throttle pot lost its endpoint and when I would give the car full throttle i would stop....it wasnt pretty.....I did recycle the module inside.....:D

EMU
2011.07.19, 11:36 PM
Almost half of the KT-18's that I have seen and all of the ones that I have owned (3) have had problems... Restricting the transmitter to the KT-18 will have poor results. The number one thing that I tell people when they want to get into racing, is to get a good transmitter (EX-10, EX-1UR or EX-5UR). Getting a good KT-18 is a gamble, and if you have more than one car, almost useless. I am sure people will disagree, but from my experiences and ones that I have noticed at 5 different local tracks, fairly justified.

herman
2011.07.20, 03:21 AM
hmm... looks like i've missed that one... wonder what's the official rule pertaining to transmitters?

i believe using anything other than the kt-18, provides a slight advantage over those who are sticking it out with the kt-18. that's just me though...

any other thoughts on chassis/racing performance using kt-18 vs. other transmitters?

Racer-HH
2011.07.20, 04:28 AM
I totally have to agree with Emu on the TX issue. KT-18 is simply not a good and reliable product. Limiting the box stock class to this TX will hurt its appeal to a broader audiance. And I think it will have only minor impact on the results. Experienced drivers will always beat rookies, regardless of the TX. And do not forget about the spread in motor power with kyosho stock motors. This definitvely will have the most impact. At our track the top guys all select their motors and spend some money on various stock motors to choose from. My advice would be to have a stock class only with hand out motors.

LED
2011.07.20, 07:04 AM
Tbh I think you guys are overthinking this way to much.
Yes the transmitter will make a difference, but take away the KT18 and all other usable transmitters are practicly the same when it comes to settings you can use.

Stock motor is fine, and the better persons will win regardless how many motors they bought to select the one going 1% better then the other one.

Stock classis all about error margin. Due to the fact that it is stock, there will be alot more errors on the track then the expert classes. The car has a mind of its own, mostly because tuning is limmited. So this class does not revolve around being the best driver, but around having the most fun.

Maybe another point nobody has mentioned, what about the ICS settings. They have an even greater effect on the car then any other tuning part discussed here so far.

color01
2011.07.20, 06:49 PM
Tbh I think you guys are overthinking this way to much.
Yes the transmitter will make a difference, but take away the KT18 and all other usable transmitters are practicly the same when it comes to settings you can use.

Stock motor is fine, and the better persons will win regardless how many motors they bought to select the one going 1% better then the other one.

Stock classis all about error margin. Due to the fact that it is stock, there will be alot more errors on the track then the expert classes. The car has a mind of its own, mostly because tuning is limmited. So this class does not revolve around being the best driver, but around having the most fun.

Maybe another point nobody has mentioned, what about the ICS settings. They have an even greater effect on the car then any other tuning part discussed here so far.
I believe Kyosho was of the opinion that ICS tuning will be outlawed for Stock class, and I agree with that. The less tuning variables available the more it will be about driving and having fun.

That said, not everybody understands that "just have fun" mindset and that is the big hole in your argument, LED. I would agree that keeping everyone on the same radio would make it all fair, however the KT-18 is nowhere near reliable enough to be the spec radio. I'd rather use AM cars with the old KT-5 than the KT-18 -- at least you know everyone will glitch!

A lot of us more experienced drivers have undergone a gentlemen's agreement not to tune our Kyosho EX cars at all precisely to curb any kind of competitive tuning spirit, which, gets intense in the GT Stock class (I like it that way at least). But in Kyosho EX/Stock, the best way to keep things noncompetitive is to make it all luck-based, that way we can encourage people to simply have fun rather than telling them that.

LED
2011.07.24, 07:46 AM
I had a change to run on a PN regional layout A http://pnracing.us/pnwc2011/pnwc-2011-rules.htm yesterday.
With my stock MR02) (stock motor, 0 camber caster and toe in, white springs, standard parts for the rest) I did a 9.44?

The expert drivers who were present did a 8.4 with a modified car with a 33T PN motor.
I was surprised because I tought the difference would be bigger.

herman
2011.08.10, 05:33 AM
hmm... anybody know what the exact ruling is regarding controllers? is it any controller allowed?

herman
2011.08.10, 05:34 AM
I battled with a Box Stock Porsche GT3R (minus bearings, wheels and tires) against Brian's FD3S on Saturday... such close racing, our lap times were nearly identical, in qualify we had .02s difference between our fastest laps.

what radio/controller did you two use?

EMU
2011.08.10, 07:24 AM
I use Helios, Brian uses EX-1UR.

herman
2011.08.10, 10:55 PM
thanks for the reply emu...

what type of settings did the both of you use?

you think that there would definitely be any difference if the both of you used the stock kt18?
say in terms of: a) laptimes b) driving performance?

color01
2011.08.10, 11:22 PM
EMU might suffer a bit, since he actually uses the curve/expo settings on his Helios. I wouldn't be affected one bit except for the slight difference in response time between the two radios. The only functions of the EX-1UR that I use are trims, end points and dual rate, and the KT-18 has the first two (which mitigates the need for the third).

Let's just say I'd kick his @$$ if we were on KT-18's. :p

Btw, back to the original topic, I think mugler needs to try out a new ASC. The new HSV's are incredible even in stock form! I'll have pictures up in the MR-03 pics thread in a moment. :)

herman
2011.08.11, 02:54 AM
thanks color... been veering off topic a bit lately... just too much to discuss as the thread progresses... apologies to anybody who's offended...

EMU
2011.08.11, 07:20 AM
The only curve I used for the car was on the throttle... With a KT-18, I would just have to adjust the throttle endpoint a little higher (so that the car reaches full throttle a little earlier), and it should have a similar effect so my let off is at my comfort zone. The only reason why I would think Brian would feel more comfortable with the KT-18 is that the EX-1UR is light and has a lighter wheel response than the Helios. I have driven many KT-18's while helping setup other peoples cars, while I dont like it, I dont think that it would hurt my driving performance as much as Brian thinks :D

herman
2011.08.11, 07:46 AM
ahhhh sooooo...
sounds like a smack down kt-18 box stock challenge to me.... :D

so sorry to be off topic...