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arch2b
2011.07.09, 06:40 PM
Starting August (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=401214#post401214) (see 2011 schedule) we will begin Kyosho Stock racing. Racing will occur on alternating weekends from HFAY. Please see the 2014 Schedule (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39486).

Why Kyosho Stock? All of us started somewhere. For many of us, this was LONG ago when Mini-Z racing was in the early stages of being formally organized via the then Kyosho Mini-Z Cup and similar sponsored events. HFAY for example has it's roots in nearly stock class racing with the Kyosho box stock motor. Over time HFAY, like other series, has evolved and focuses mainly on modified stock and open/mod racing leaving little to no support for the beginner classes. We want to address this by adding a Kyosho Stock racing class to our club racing to help bring in new racers with more affordable entry costs so that they may participate and compete while learning if the hobby is indeed for them. They can choose to up the ante so to speak by joining our HFAY racing and other local events or some may find it's not for them and decide to move on to something else with minimal loss. With Kyosho USA's support of stock racing, we will be joining them in establishing this class and use the rules established by Kyosho USA for their stock class racing (http://www.kyoshoamerica.com/2011-Summer-Shootout_c_827.html). We will be following this rule set as developed and revised by Kyosho USA. Who knows, if htey ever decide to restart the Kyosho Mini-Z Cup series, we will already have experience with this class :)

Here are the Kyosho Stock Rules, (Ver. 2.2) Updated on 03-06-2014

Open to any Kyosho Mini-Z Racer and AWD Chassis, Iwaver/Fire-Lap Racer and AWD Chassis. Chassis can be any configuration including LM and wheelbases from 86mm to 106mm.

• Chassis - No modification (shaving or drilling unless absolutely required for proper part operation)

• Motor - Kyosho Racer and AWD Stock motor only.

• PCB - No modification allowed except for updating to current PCB board. No Gyro permitted, No brushless, permitted, no increase in quantity of FET's permitted. This accommodates periodic changes or upgrades in PCB design with regard to frequency, etc.

• Bodies - Must be Kyosho Kit or Autoscale body, or full painted and assembled white (unpainted) body. Modification (shaving or drilling for weight savings and aerodynamic gain, adding wings etc) not allowed. (Exceptions; hole may be drilled in rear deck lid of Ferrari F355 to allow for damper clearance as example, front splitter or low air foils that protrude to sharp points may be rounded at corners/edges.) custom painted bodies must be fully painted and ALL accessories excluding optional kit parts (rally light on Toyota Celica for example). completed body must be within 2 grams of original Autoscale weight (average weight of Autoscale rear spoiler). Bodies found to have greater deviation will not be permitted.

• Wheels - Any Manufacturer plastic wheels only. Wheels/tires must be of appropriate width and offset for respective Autoscale and fit inside the body.

• Tires - Any Manufacturer brand rubber tire (No grooving, cutting or silicone based tires allowed)

• Batteries - Four AAA batteries. Alkaline, Ni-MH or Ni-Cd batteries may be used. No other type of battery may be used. For example: Lithium Polymer may not be used, Ni-Zn may not be used.

• Ball Bearings - Any manufacturer non ceramic ball bearings are permitted.

• Front Suspension - Manufacturer stock suspension and parts permitted ONLY.

• Rear Suspension - Manufacturer stock suspension permitted ONLY and assembly appropriate for chassis type (example, LM stock configuration includes rear damper. Other kits include Kyosho Rear Shock Set #MZ206) Please note, as of December 2016, Kyosho has updated the Racer line to include the MM2 rear end with retail kits in stock form (not Limited, SP, Cup Class, etc.). MM2 Set #MZ217.

• H/T Plate - Any Manufacturer H/T plate permitted, must be appropriate to stock wheelbase for chassis configuration and Autoscale selection.

• Wheel Nuts - Any Manufacturer wheel nuts permitted.

Modifications to the rules
• Oils, lubes, greases, tire tape will be allowed in our series.
• Allowable ESC modifications are limited to the replacement in kind (same as stock) of fets and other board components.
• Autoscale modifications are limited to the minimum clearancing needed for operation of permitted equipment. Shaving bumpers, skirts, windows, etc. will not be allowed. Please choose your autoscale accordingly as there will be no exceptions made thus no excuses.
• R246 autoscales that are sold in chassis sets are acceptable. The R390GT1 (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=20907) is an example of this R246 autoscale sold as a chassis set with wheels. Those that are not sold in this manner are not acceptable. To clarify this further, other Autoscales not sold as chassis sets or readyset are not acceptable.
• Wiring must remain stock except you may replace motor wires with like wire. IE; replace stock motor leads with Turnigy 24awg wires. You may replace the stock antenna wire with like wire.
• AWD and RWD chassis my use the aluminum motor spacers to assist in dissipating heat.
• Kyosho SP Pinions are permitted as you get all 4 pinions sold in convenient parts kit. MZW119.


If here are any questions, please don't hesitate to ask and we will update this as needed.

MR-01 stock parts kits can be found here (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=255241&postcount=1).
MR-015 stock parts kits can be found here (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=255210&postcount=1).
MR-02 stock parts kits can be found here (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=255214&postcount=1).
MR-03 stock parts kits can be found here (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=357986&postcount=1).

arch2b
2011.07.17, 12:30 AM
A refresher of the discussion on permitted options for those that may not have been around for them.

T plates often break as a result of crashes and replacements are only available within a parts kit that includes many un-necessary parts. I don't recall anyone ever breaking a spring. Loosing a spring yes, but it's rare that a spring breaks. I do see the merit in the discussion though and will discuss it further this Saturday.
MM t plate parts kit MZ204 $7: 1 plastic T plate and MM motor mount
RM t plate parts kit MZ210 $6: 1 plastic T plate and RM motor mount
Kyosho FRP T plat sets MZW410H, MZW410M, MZW410S, MZW409S, MZW409M, MZW409H $19: 3 t plates of a specific stiffness in either RM/HM or MM/LM. there are a few others in sets of 3 but include S, M and H at the same price range. the average replacement from PN or Atomic runs about $4-6 however are much more durable than plastic and your not saddled with extra parts that may or may not be used. i am still running the stock plastic h plate and i know a couple others are as well.

Ball bearings are not solely for performance but mainly to accommodate extended use of stock motors and extending run times. Our desire to maintain stock motor class requires concessions to make it viable in the long run. To this day I do not understand why Kyosho includes plastic bushings in kits. Even their mini-z cup allowed for ball bearings. I've given away more sets of bearings than many have ever bought and still keep a couple sets on hand just in case someone joins and doesn't have any and not comfortable paying for the Kyosho bearings. I never have and never will spend $$$ on high end bearings. I run the same $8 Boca bearings or bearings included in past purchased 'cup' kits. If TRC ever restocked the dry race bearings, i'd jump back to those in a heart beat but alas, TRC has not restocked in maybe 10 years.

Lock nuts are unsprung weight in the end. some swear by them, others prefer the plastic. In the end, they are not a performance part but used in effort to reduce chance of loosing a wheel during a race, despite the high entertainment value it typically provides. I've had better luck with alloy thus always use them. There are very cheap alloy lock nuts available and always have some on hand if anyone needs them.
This is very similar to the request for alloy motor heat sinks. They are added weight and serve to maintain the stock motor and agree these should be permitted. Please note, this is limited to motor spacers/heat sinks, not motor pods because they may include heat sinks as part of the kit.

LM is a matter of choice. It comes as standard equipment on a 'stock' LM kit. if driver X feels this is what they need to compete, the choice is there to switch to LM autoscale of choice. There are near endless choices to be made in terms of which chassis and autoscale to choose in the end, each based on driver X criteria. I see this as one of the many strengths of stock class vs. a fault. I do see the merit in the discussion though and will discuss it further this saturday. If i recall correctly, even the kyosho mini-z cup permitted the stock spring damper shock on chassis that did not include it.

If anyone is ever in need of a part for stock class and is not comfortable paying for Kyosho parts, please inquire with me. I am more than happy to assist and typically have extra's of just about everything on hand.

I'm currently working on a new member parts kit as we speak that will include bearings, ample supply of lock nuts, proper box wrench, Philips screw driver for about $15. I already dispensed to HW a large quantity of battery cases to be distributed to new members.

arch2b
2011.07.21, 09:17 PM
anyone else got a stock car and interested? courtney said he had a couple people waiting for this class so attendance should pick back up.

arch2b
2011.08.13, 09:36 PM
i think it was a good first race today :) with the bumpy condition of the track, LM models seem to handle best. i've already ordered the R390 autoscale and 30/20 tires. i'll move the HSV to my HFAY chassis as i do like this body.

bill did fantastic with his stock Mazda LM! nearly as good as he did with his HFAY car.

does courtney have a stock lm differential in stock? forgot my chassis kit came with the lm ball diff, not a geared diff.

arch2b
2012.07.19, 09:20 PM
trying to get this going again, maybe at Mimi's (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=434692#post434692) since HW doesn't seem interested in pushing this.

herman
2012.07.23, 04:24 AM
i've always loved this class (because it's cheap and fun)... wishing you well and hope this class can bring in more racers... :D

arch2b
2012.12.16, 10:49 AM
well, it's clear hobby works isn't going to push for stock class racing and Remnant (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=186) is taking up the challenge. they are currently working on their schedule right now.

fyi, Remnant will also continue to join us in HFAY at hobby works. Remnant will also will continue 90mm class racing. the mini cooper and beetle are the body of choice so far.

to clarify, HFAY will remain the 2nd saturday of every month. everything else will be on remaining weekends. Remnant (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=186) also practice/races certain weekdays as well. Mike will reflect all this on the schedule (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38656) he is setting up.

arch2b
2013.05.26, 10:34 AM
guys, please check the rules. I am using Remnant Kyosho Stock rules unless there is strong demand for change.

Of importance is the selection of approved motor. For Remnant it is the PN Mini-Z PNWC Official 70 Turn Stock Motor. We can continue with Kyosho stock motor only or continue per Remnant rules with the 70T. Please note that if 70T is approved for Hobby Works I will ensure it is stocked at Hobby works so availability is not an issue.

arch2b
2013.11.17, 11:24 PM
rules have been updated if i recall correctly to reflect our current state of rules, box stock with allowances for tires, wheels (correct offset for autoscale), t plates, ball bearings and lock nuts. nothing else... i'll have the 3d printed t plates in december. the turn around is not quick enough to get them for november stock racing.

arch2b
2014.06.15, 01:30 PM
with rules break in period concluded, i've updated the rules to permit the following:
replacement of motor lead wires due to multiple instances with leads snapping off during racing. more pliable wire will eliminate this from happening. wire must be like wire; IE, like gauge. Turnigy 24awg wire is perfect match yet much more flexible. I will have some on hand at all races in case anyone wants to swap motor leads.
replacement of antenna wire. myself, i have had the jacket slip off 2 antenna wires and had to replace with the only available product, Reflex Racing antenna replacement wire. if anyone has a suggestion for alternative antenna wire please let me know as i do no know mow much longer you will be able to find the Reflex Racing product.
we will not change to 70t motor. the competitive equalizer the stock provides is to much fun. we are always open to sourcing a motor that has the same speed but runs cooler, IE; stock motor with ball bearings.

otherwise, i think the first season was a very good success! certainly provided for some close and competitive racing.

please feel free to make suggestions for improvement. rest assured any and all suggestions will be considered.

byebye
2014.07.20, 07:17 PM
Given the price of autoscales can we make an exception for fully painted and assembled white bodies?

arch2b
2014.07.20, 07:55 PM
i'm inclined to agree with the stipulation that fully painted white bodies must include all parts excluding optional parts included in some kits. must be fully painted, not just color stripes on an unpainted body. i would prefer to see them clear coated so that the final weight is as close to stock as possible. I may need to build a database that has the stock weight for most common bodies and require ballast be added for those underweight. in stock class, weight can make a very big difference.

byebye
2014.07.20, 09:30 PM
i'm inclined to agree with the stipulation that fully painted white bodies must include all parts excluding optional parts included in some kits. must be fully painted, not just color stripes on an unpainted body. i would prefer to see them clear coated so that the final weight is as close to stock as possible. I may need to build a database that has the stock weight for most common bodies and require ballast be added for those underweight. in stock class, weight can make a very big difference.

I concur with all this. I too was concerned with comparable weight between autoscales and painted.

I think it would be quite time consuming to find all so we should start with the most common raced bodies and maybe come up with a "within +or -". I weighed my hydro dipped 458 vs my autoscale 458 and the hydro dipped is 1 gram heavier at 39 vs 38 respectively.

arch2b
2014.07.20, 10:46 PM
i think we have most of the ones needed and can get the rest from members. i think we can come up with a solid variable number that will make it work.

really don't want to make this arduous but really need to maintain the spirit of the stock class.

KWT
2014.07.21, 07:43 PM
Are we allowing heatsinks for the AWD? I have the metal motor plates and heatsink on mine to keep it from shutting down.

arch2b
2014.07.21, 07:55 PM
Metal motor spacers would be OK. I'm inclined to say no on the heat sink motor cover.it's a slippery slope i'm trying to avoid.

KWT
2014.07.23, 08:13 PM
I thought we agreed it was ok at the last stock race since the AWD heated up the motor really badly. I know you are trying to avoid an arms race but this has more to do with keeping the motor alive because heat weakens magnets.

arch2b
2014.07.23, 08:30 PM
i thought we discussed motor spacers only. :confused: there is nothing stopping someone else asking for some other part because it keeps the motor cool, frees up this or that. you open the door and it gets harder to keep it closed.

byebye
2014.07.23, 09:43 PM
Can I use an LM motorpod and LM disk damper in a 98mm setup? The longtail Mclaren uses this configuration.

EDIT*Okay I lie. It doesn't use LM but if I could...?

arch2b
2014.07.23, 09:54 PM
Suspension is limited to configuration appropriate to stock autoscale configuration. If it didn't come setup that stock, not allowed.

Question about wheels/tires, any plastic wheels and tires but must be of appropriate diameter, width and offset of stock configuration.

byebye
2014.07.23, 09:59 PM
Suspension is limited to configuration appropriate to stock autoscale configuration. If it didn't come setup that stock, not allowed.

Question about wheels/tires, any wheels and tires but must be of appropriate diameter, width and offset of stock configuration.

You're a real heart breaker Ray! :p

arch2b
2015.01.05, 04:20 PM
so, what are the thoughts on what i would consider a successful year of stock class racing?

anyone feel we need to add additional options to the mix? my opinion is well known so won't repeat it but want to make sure all have a voice. :p

mleemor60
2015.01.05, 05:14 PM
As an honorary member I say carefully restrict anything that gives a performance advantage. Motor spacers don't give an advantage beyond motor longevity. Like the aluminum heat sink for the LM. If you stay at the low end of the pinion range the motors last indefinitely.

If you study very closely the stuff that comes in the box you can find all sorts of things to improve performance within the parameters.

byebye
2015.01.05, 09:31 PM
so, what are the thoughts on what i would consider a successful year of stock class racing?

anyone feel we need to add additional options to the mix? my opinion is well known so won't repeat it but want to make sure all have a voice. :p

Wow really? I'd have to think about it. The only thing I asked about last season was allowing alloy wheels(it was for a specific setup I'm not running anymore).

I'd like to ask about front spring changes. I have not tried to deviate from the stock setup so I'm used to it's driving characteristics but I would love to be able to make some changes in that aspect.

As an honorary member I say carefully restrict anything that gives a performance advantage. Motor spacers don't give an advantage beyond motor longevity. Like the aluminum heat sink for the LM. If you stay at the low end of the pinion range the motors last indefinitely.

If you study very closely the stuff that comes in the box you can find all sorts of things to improve performance within the parameters.

True.

arch2b
2015.01.05, 09:46 PM
doesnt hurt anything to ask... always willing to listen :p

byebye
2015.01.05, 09:57 PM
doesnt hurt anything to ask... always willing to listen :p

Yeah I would like to ask to allow front spring changes. Not sure which brand. I'd almost say any brand as there are too many to track and probably too little Kyosho brand for all to purchase.

I do personally like how true alloy wheels are compared to plastic especially after a season of bashing around.

KWT
2015.01.05, 10:32 PM
Heat sinks for AWD and LM class. I'm with Kris on alloy wheels. I have broken at least 5 plastic wheels last year and some you couldn't replace with the same offset for the body. Since we allow any t plates we should be open to front springs since it would help with tuning. I think the stock fronts are too hard for our bumpy track.

arch2b
2015.01.05, 11:05 PM
valid comments but hard to argue the stock parts don't work when some in the club can run them just as they are faster than HFAY. stock works, just have to work with it and adapt to it vs. using even more parts to achieve an end.

motor heat sinks seems very reasonable given we are using stock motors for 10 minute mains. we can discuss alloy wheels further, the added weight for a stock car is a serious gamble for those wanting to go down that road. most don't use alloy wheels for HFAY or mod which are higher speeds, harder crashes.

springs are a slippery slope issue. if you accept springs, why not allow motor mount, then why not 70t motor and before you know it you up to HFAY.

arch2b
2015.01.05, 11:14 PM
Another thing to keep in mind is that I am also aiming to provide multiple distinct and separate classes of racing so that we hit most if not all the bases. The more we dilute them the less individual them become and less meaningful. Trying really hard to avoid an all stock, all HFAY and or all mod style club. Some don't like short wheelbase, some don't like stock and some don't like mid, but we at least have all of them to choose from.

byebye
2015.01.06, 06:22 AM
valid comments but hard to argue the stock parts don't work when some in the club can run them just as they are faster than HFAY. stock works, just have to work with it and adapt to it vs. using even more parts to achieve an end.

motor heat sinks seems very reasonable given we are using stock motors for 10 minute mains. we can discuss alloy wheels further, the added weight for a stock car is a serious gamble for those wanting to go down that road. most don't use alloy wheels for HFAY or mod which are higher speeds, harder crashes.

springs are a slippery slope issue. if you accept springs, why not allow motor mount, then why not 70t motor and before you know it you up to HFAY.

Stock parts work great so why T plates but not springs? T plates and springs will change the handling characteristics of the car. If the idea is to keep the field level and easier to be competitive we should go back to stock T plates.

Of the allowable changes only tires are required to actually run on the track. The rest of the car can remain completely stock and still be raced.

If I was new to the game and wanted to enter stock racing the minimum I would need tires and rechargable batteries. But now I noticed everyone is faster because they have bearings that are smooth and have less rolling resistance. I would then have to spend $39 on Kyoshos in the cabinet or $50 on ceramics or $9 on a cheap set. In my opinion bearings, springs and T plates all fall under the same category as upgrades above box stock. None of those upgrades came in the "box".

I don't think front springs is a game changer over anything else we already allow. Where we have seen a game changer is those guys running LM and getting a disk damper. But when asked you can only run the LM rear pod with an LM car and not modify to run on any shorter wheelbase. Drop a 70t in and yes it's game over for that novice that doesn't want to spend beyond the cost of tires.

This is however what I love about stock class. As "stock" as it may seem there are a handful of tips and tricks to get around the track a little faster and there are more than enough chassis and body options to find what works for your driving style.

I welcome any or no changes. Just don't touch the motor, batteries, and FETs.

arch2b
2015.01.06, 11:49 AM
our stock class has never been confused with a 'box' stock class and has we never used the term 'box' very intentionally. it's not so much keeping it purely to box stock but keeping the total investment at a minimum without drifting into HFAY with a stock motor territory.

a refresher of the discussion on permitted options for those that may not have been around for them.
t plates often break as a result of crashes and replacements are only available within a parts kit that includes many un-necessary parts. i don't recall anyone ever breaking a spring. loosing a spring yes, but it's rare that a spring breaks. i do see the merit in the discussion though and will discuss it further this saturday.
MM t plate parts kit MZ204 $7: 1 plastic t plate and MM motor mount
RM t plate parts kit MZ210 $6: 1 plastic t plate and RM motor mount
Kyosho FRP t plat sets MZW410H, MZW410M, MZW410S, MZW409S, MZW409M, MZW409H $19: 3 t plates of a specific stiffness in either RM/HM or MM/LM. there are a few others in sets of 3 but include S, M and H at the same price range. the average replacement from PN or Atomic runs about $4-6 however are much more durable than plastic and your not saddled with extra parts that may or may not be used. i am still running the stock plastic h plate and i know a couple others are as well.

ball bearings are not solely for performance but mainly to accommodate extended use of stock motors and extending run times. our desire to maintain stock motor class requires concessions to make it viable in the long run. to this day i do not understand why kyosho includes plastic bushings in kits. even their mini-z cup allowed for ball bearings. i've given away more sets of bearings than many have ever bought and still keep a couple sets on hand just in case someone joins and doesn't have any and not comfortable paying for the Kyosho bearings. i never have and never will spend $$$ on high end bearings. I run the same $8 boca bearings or bearings included in past purchased 'cup' kits. if TRC ever restocked the dry race bearings, i'd jump back to those in a heart beat but alas, TRC has not restocked in maybe 10 years.

lock nuts are unsprung weight in the end. some swear by them, others prefer the plastic. in the end, they are not a performance part but used in effort to reduce chance of loosing a wheel during a race, despite the high entertainment value it typically provides. i've had better luck with alloy thus always use them. there are very cheap alloy lock nuts available and always have some on hand if anyone needs them.
This is very similar to the request for alloy motor heat sinks. they are added weight and serve to maintain the stock motor and agree these should be permitted. please note, this is limited to motor spacers/heat sinks, not motor pods because they may include heat sinks as part of the kit.

LM is a matter of choice. it comes as standard equipment on a 'stock' LM kit. if driver X feels this is what they need to compete, the choice is there to switch to LM autoscale of choice. there are near endless choices to be made in terms of which chassis and autoscale to choose in the end, each based on driver X criteria. i see this as one of the many strengths of stock class vs. a fault. i do see the merit in the discussion though and will discuss it further this saturday. if i recall correctly, even the kyosho mini-z cup permitted the stock spring damper shock on chassis that did not include it.

if anyone is ever in need of a part for stock class and is not comfortable paying for kyosho parts, please inquire with me. i am more than happy to assist and typically have extra's of just about everything on hand.

i'm currently working on a new member parts kit as we speak that will include bearings, ample supply of lock nuts, proper box wrench, Philips screw driver for about $15. i already dispensed to HW a large quantity of battery cases to be distributed to new members.

to reinforce the goal stated earlier, our club aims to provide multiple classes to suit many tastes while remaining individual and unique. the danger you run into in building multiple classes and diluting them to the point where you have a collection of HFAY classes with different motors and or batteries. HFAY is the tuner wet dream. you get any and all option parts with minimal autoscale limits, min. weight, battery, motor and limited extent, electronics restrictions. you can run your stock car as many do in this class or drop another $500 in parts and split with mod class which some do. other classes are more specific in nature and more or less restrictive proportionally. mod will really be run whatever fits under 1/27 scale. 86-90mm utilizes the short wheelbase body selected and NiMh batteries as the limiting factor in what your imagination can build under it. stock class is all about what can you get out of a minimal setup in terms of skill/investment and adapting skill to the limited platform/investment. the obvious benefits are providing HW with a venue for direct sales to race category and driver skill development program without placing the stigma on it of calling it a novice or starter class. there are no expectations on my part that all will join all classes.

:D

i just found a great small parts kit however that has 1 MM/MM and 1 RM/HM, 1 set of knuckles and 1 W and 1 N tie rod that is very affordable making stock t plates a viable option. we can discuss going back to stock only t plates if desired as this targeted parts kit for breakable front end parts makes this feasible. i am checking on it's availability. i am happy to go back to stock t plate only myself.

byebye
2015.01.06, 12:36 PM
Thanks for summing that up Ray. As I mentioned and why I've been around it's about the fun and you've captured the essence of that with this club. That's why you've been around so long.

I really liked those dry bearings...10 years ago ll! we've been around a long time buddy ;)

arch2b
2015.08.29, 10:25 AM
good morning gentlemen. I am open to allowing front springs into the stock class (for 2016) 1 of 2 ways;
1. allow only the optional springs in the kyosho starter kit (it is a race start kit afterall).
2. when HW gets in PN parts, allowing the PN spring set. this is entirely dependent on HW carrying PN however.

the reasons are not arbitrary, we are in HW house and need to be respectful of our symbiotic relationship. it's a quid pro quot deal, we get floor and shelf space, they get foot traffic and sales. lest we forget... we've been racing there for free :cool: there are no restrictions on bringing is outside purchases and no worries on that front either which is another tip in our favor however we need to be mindful of our request for HW to support our parts needs and not leave them with unsold shelf warming stock which benefits no one. if they sell through, they order more of what we want. its that simple.
i know, were way past that on H plates... that too will be rectified when HW carries PN. hindsight is always clearer and should have restricted H plates in the beginning but alas, we are where we are.

stock class is and will always remain a stock motor, very limited options class, a 'drivers' class if you will. if that creates some frustration i suggest trying HFAY class where the doors are pushed open or even MOD class where the doors have been taken off the hinges. stock and HFAY have really been my favorites myself. :p

i will update the rules when appropriate (for 2016) with a listing of acceptable option parts and only items on this list will be permitted. for sanity sake, i may not list each and every part number and provide direction vs. itemized list.

overall, want to thank everyone for 8 months of stock class racing under our belts, it's been a lot of fun. it's not been without it's controversy but overall i believe it to be working well and achieving its stated goals. we will be sure to have a debriefing in December, a 'Festivus' event in which grievances can be shared and learned from in making necessary tweaks for 2016 to build on the success thus far. i'll need someone else to bring the aluminum pole though...

poochy
2015.08.29, 11:47 AM
Kyosho stock is a great class.
I would lose by the least amount laps to the winners compared to other classes.
I like to see stock battery and chargers
Also stock tires.

arch2b
2015.08.29, 01:19 PM
no practical way to legislate chargers/batteries and unless you require alkaline, which is wasteful and expensive. someone can take the cheapest of nimh batteries and still go through all the work to cycle, test and match them, price point will not change this. this is evident by many using the cheaper Duratrax batteries vs. other high end cells.

can't practically implement stock tires either unless mandating Kyosho 20r/30f combo. Kyosho mixes up the tire batches in readysets, autoscales over time making it impossible to ensure everyone is running the same thing. as soon as HW carries PN, the tire choices are again flat across the board making it equally available to all at low cost. most run kyosho but some prefer PN rear tires, it's all personal preference and driving style, much like t plate.

one also has to recognize, not everyone is an 'a main' driver as well (i fall in this category) :eek: takes some measure of self awareness and acknowledgement that not everyone has the same skill set despite speed of car. through practice and skill building though, in a class that is relatively flat, it offers the best opportunity to achieve that end. stock class offers the best opportunity to finish higher due to greater influence of cleaner driving lines and consistency.
i always recommend getting on the track and simply following the faster guys in practice as this assists in finding the optimal line and hopefully staying out of trouble getting around (clean passing). the fast guys are not always the literal fastest cars but the ones that have the best lines and most consistent. can't stress that stuff enough, consistency and clean driving. get those polished and it doesn't matter what your driving :cool: people have won MOD class with a stock car for example.

byebye
2015.08.30, 10:56 AM
Good stuff!

poochy
2015.08.31, 01:09 PM
no practical way to legislate chargers/batteries and unless you require alkaline, which is wasteful and expensive. someone can take the cheapest of nimh batteries and still go through all the work to cycle, test and match them, price point will not change this. this is evident by many using the cheaper Duratrax batteries vs. other high end cells.

can't practically implement stock tires either unless mandating Kyosho 20r/30f combo. Kyosho mixes up the tire batches in readysets, autoscales over time making it impossible to ensure everyone is running the same thing. as soon as HW carries PN, the tire choices are again flat across the board making it equally available to all at low cost. most run kyosho but some prefer PN rear tires, it's all personal preference and driving style, much like t plate.

one also has to recognize, not everyone is an 'a main' driver as well (i fall in this category) :eek: takes some measure of self awareness and acknowledgement that not everyone has the same skill set despite speed of car. through practice and skill building though, in a class that is relatively flat, it offers the best opportunity to achieve that end. stock class offers the best opportunity to finish higher due to greater influence of cleaner driving lines and consistency.
i always recommend getting on the track and simply following the faster guys in practice as this assists in finding the optimal line and hopefully staying out of trouble getting around (clean passing). the fast guys are not always the literal fastest cars but the ones that have the best lines and most consistent. can't stress that stuff enough, consistency and clean driving. get those polished and it doesn't matter what your driving :cool: people have won MOD class with a stock car for example.

Good points Ray.

Mike Keely
2015.08.31, 08:08 PM
I have no issues with anyone changing springs. They are a very low cost item. I will not be changing the springs on the front of my car but I could see someone with a very narrow car wanting to go softer in the front.

One thing that I noticed was that the metal 4th gear for the servo is not listed as a option part for the stock class? This is in no way a performance part but it is a reliability part as much as the T bar is.

arch2b
2015.08.31, 09:54 PM
An oversight I will correct. The option servo gear is permitted in all our classes.

arch2b
2016.05.16, 07:50 AM
Kyosho now sells pinions in a separate parts kit, MZW119. these are permitted in stock class.

From all accounts thus far, the new MM2 motor mount will be a new stock part thus permitted in stock class. we are awaiting more definitive information as it's not yet available it parts kit form.

KWT
2016.05.16, 11:18 AM
The MM2 is only going to be stock on the brushless car as far as the reports go. Are we going to allow brushless in stock racing?

arch2b
2016.05.16, 12:38 PM
i'm sure thats a result of nearly all kits moving to brushless vs. sports. you can get LM both ways thus LM parts are permitted in both forms, this would be no different and looks to solve the issue of LM being chosen for the damper alone alloying many to go back to shorter wheelbases which will hopefully make it a more diverse class again. i'm sticking to my guns and continue to run 98mm anyway so not really a big deal for me but i know some pick wheelbase based on damping alone.

PN stock class brushless motor was just released... lets get time to evaluate before jumping to any rash decisions:p we've clearly shown even the 5000K motors are on part if not faster than a 70T.

byebye
2016.05.16, 09:12 PM
If money permits I'll pick one up for testing.

Kris

lfisminiz
2016.05.16, 10:35 PM
The new 70T brushless is very conparable to brushed...defenitly not to fast. ;)

byebye
2016.05.17, 06:45 AM
Next question is how easy is it to fit in the stock motor pods? Reason being is Washington GTG stock class does not allow allow motor mounts. I have a spare brushless motor and I'll see how it fits but I doubt it will sit normal since the pods are designed around the D shaped can.

Kris

lfisminiz
2016.05.17, 12:54 PM
Next question is how easy is it to fit in the stock motor pods? Reason being is Washington GTG stock class does not allow allow motor mounts. I have a spare brushless motor and I'll see how it fits but I doubt it will sit normal since the pods are designed around the D shaped can.

Kris

Good ponit.

arch2b
2016.05.17, 01:22 PM
you would have to try to slip the kyosho brushless motor casing over it or fab up your own ;) putting a square peg in a round hole so to speak :p

byebye
2016.05.17, 07:04 PM
you would have to try to slip the kyosho brushless motor casing over it or fab up your own ;) putting a square peg in a round hole so to speak :p

We may be the only club putting brushless motors in stock pods :p
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34890&stc=1&d=1463525869
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34891&stc=1&d=1463525869
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34892&stc=1&d=1463525869
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34893&stc=1&d=1463525869
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34894&stc=1&d=1463525869
In the last pic you have to bore out the larger shim for the end to fit. Don't bore out too much! Notice there is a notch at the bottom. You have to file in a notch so that the motor doesn't spin inside the shim.

Kris

Traveler
2017.03.02, 01:30 PM
How do the PN brushless motors fit in the newer MM2 pod? Any modifications needed?

arch2b
2017.12.08, 07:58 AM
they seem to fit fine. they do not fit so well within the standard MM pod as the spacers are not shaped to accommodate the endbell. we'll see if we can't 3d print a solution to that problem.

byebye
2017.12.08, 08:05 AM
My skills have grown! A 3d printed solution for spacers is easily achieved.

Now how do we make a set of spacers with a slight modification to the pod to accommodate a set screw for fine adjustment? ;-)

Kris

arch2b
2017.12.08, 08:14 AM
Motor - Kyosho Racer and AWD Stock motor only.

proposed changes:
Motor
Brushed: Kyosho Racer and AWD Stock motors only.
Brushless: PN 3500kv, Part Number 140035 only. Gearing limited to 8 tooth maximum.

we tested this combination from 6-9 tooth and 8 tooth places this on par with other top drivers in the class using stock brushed. I dare say brushed was still a touch faster as a result of our typical size track layout.

arch2b
2017.12.08, 08:23 AM
My skills have grown! A 3d printed solution for spacers is easily achieved.

Now how do we make a set of spacers with a slight modification to the pod to accommodate a set screw for fine adjustment? ;-)

Kris
it would be nice to have that level of adjustment however stock motors are not drilled and could not benefit from the feature thus making it an unfair advantage to do so for the brushless motor.

i'm sure there is a technical way to engineer the spacer to allow for shifting of the endbell position without needing to replace the entire spacer in the stock motor pod however in terms of practicality, it would seem easier to simply print a dozen spacers with slight shifts in placement. there are alloy motor pods that include adjustable endbell retainers for stock motors but these are expensive and in many cases limit compatibility with other stock parts which runs counter to the stock class program goals.

byebye
2017.12.08, 01:21 PM
It's a separate discussion but I'm talking screw adjustment perpendicular to the motor. I'll draw it up and start a new thread for it.

Also, I support the motor changes.

Kris

JB3
2017.12.08, 02:24 PM
So the regular brushless board (MZ503)or the pro brushless board (MZ505) are good? I have the MR03VE Pro MM2 chassis set and my thought was when brushless was approved for stock i could fit the PN 3500 motor in it and be good to go.