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Bodom
2011.09.02, 02:09 PM
I got an Firelap IW-04M car :)
I am going to write a review of the car and then return it to its owner :)
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130037.jpg

This is just a teaser. I'll write more tomorrow.
Feel free to ask questions about things that are point of interest so I can pay attention and write back some info.

EMU
2011.09.02, 02:33 PM
I was thinking about getting one to compare, but I cant justify the cost right now with so many other new things coming out... I mostly want to know how the drivetrain feels compared to Mini-Z AWD. Weight balance L:R, F:R... Center of gravity, motor location, battery location...

And then there are the electronics. Iwaver/Firelap electronics have always been the weakest part of their kits, if the electronics are not improved, there is no purpose for anyone with a Mini-Z to get one unless they plan to swap out the PCB. So that brings me to the next point, how easily can a Mini-Z board be swapped in. How many wires is the servo, and does it have a dedicated PCB for it like most larger scale electronics... Speed of movement/recentering, and resolution are the primary interests.

From the picture you posted, it looks like the body sits high already...

color01
2011.09.02, 04:13 PM
I can see the chassis bottom, so there's plenty of leeway to lower a more spacious body (599XX, etc.) over that... :) Good!

As I've noted before, I think this has the potential to be the next "Gen 1 Xmod". The chassis seems to be very open and easily modifiable, the layout is open and it looks like it will natively fit 102mm bodies! If the motor is mounted properly it would be super easy to create custom-wheelbase driveshafts, a big draw of what made the Gen 1 Xmod so easily usable for custom projects.

wildthing
2011.09.02, 04:42 PM
Chassis
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6027/5963269271_e2b39132a3_m.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6027/5963269271_e2b39132a3_m.jpg

Bottom view
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6144/5963269107_1ba34e3224_m.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6144/5963269107_1ba34e3224_m.jpg

got that from the RCTech forum - http://www.rctech.net/forum/manila-racers/23327-mini-micro-rc-462.html

my units are probably going to arrive early next month or hopefully end of this month.

with regards to the electronics, I THINK it is the same as the newer version of their 2.4Ghz that they released last year for their Iwaver 02M. - http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=403883&postcount=7

PS. I use the Iwaver 02M on my toy rental tracks, they do last a good while before they breakdown. The major reason why they breakdown is because they don't receive tender-loving-care from its users (because they are just rentals). My units will generally operates at least 4hours a day, 7-days a week on the average and they will start to manifest problems after about 3 to 4 weeks (because of low maintenance). The PCB need general cleaning by that time. BUT I do have units that last 2 or 3 months before they manifest problems - probably needs replacement of the steering motor and variable resistor.

The IW02M steering electronics is incorporated just like the mini-Z (2 wires for the motor, red-black and 3 wires for the VR, green-yellow-red). But the steering motor is not like the one on MR03... it similar to the older motor.

Bodom
2011.09.03, 03:17 AM
Here we go.
First some pictures of the package and what's inside:
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130038.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130040.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130041.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130042.jpg

The chassis can make 90, 94, 98 and 102mm wheelbases out of the box.
It has the parts needed to modify wheelbase (btw. only the spur gear needs to be changed). The Enzo is 98mm.
Note that some really compact 90mm cars wouldn't fit as the bottom chassis plate will get in the way.. For example the Lancia Delta Integralle wouldn't fit.

It comes with inappropriate wheels! The Enzo is pretty wide body and the chassis comes with four wide(!) wheels with +1 or +1.5 offset (I'm not sure).
It also has four drift tires (note they are narrow :D on wide wheels) and four wide grip tires (pretty soft slicks, they are good).

The suspension is pretty soft and bind-free! I like it. It is high as you noted, but it can be easily lowered. There is no suspension adjustment shims in the package.

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130044.jpg

The transmission is pretty much the same as MA-010. Only the motor is on top. From what I see the transmission and suspension parts are the same as MA-010. The knuckles, outdrive shafts, diffs, spur gear, wheels look the same. I'll try every part for compatibility though, because I already tried kyosho knuckles and they don't fit on the front :) I'll analyse this more carefully.
The outdrives looks like aluminum. It has bearings on the diffs. and main shaft only. The knuckles are on bushings.

The transmission is loud and I think it binds somewhere. What I saw so far is that the spur gear doesn't spin evenly. It's pinion to the rear diff waves around when rotating.

The chassis has two big plates. One on the bottom and one on the top. To change knuckles you have to remove the top plate, which holds the motor too.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130045.jpg
To change diffs or toe bar you have to disassemble pretty much everything :)

The servo is a standard micro servo. I haven't dismounted it yet and don't know what exactly it is, but I'll see.
What I noticed is that when the servo moves it reaches the central shaft and touches it :) So it has to be trimmed well.

P.S. Image limit reached - so new post.

Bodom
2011.09.03, 03:33 AM
Back spur gear:
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130046.jpg

The steering mechanism:
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130047.jpg
steering rod seems like MA-010 too.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130048.jpg
Here you can see where the servo arm has touched the main shaft.
The plastic used is generally crap. There are already some striped holes.

The PCB is on the bottom and I haven't reached it yet. Will post pics when I disassemble it completely.

The body is decent. It's from hard plastic and is pretty hard to mount and unmount the body from the chassis.
(on the pictures the wheels are from MA-010 and I don't have so big offset wheels sorry)
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130049.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130051.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130052.jpg
Taillights are a little messy. No Ferrari emblems or whatsoever.

The car weights 184g.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130056.jpg
(batteries included)

Bodom
2011.09.03, 03:47 AM
The Transmitter.
It has a lot of settings and 10 model memory. Some of the settings don't work with the car though.
Here is the funny part:
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130057.jpg
It has Module !!! :D
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130059.jpg
A dummy module !!! Ha ha ha.

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130058.jpg
The transmitter has some pins there but they're bad located and I would be surprised if it really supports modules.

The electronics are crap too.
I've had FM iWaver 02M. It is pretty much the same. It has lag on both steering and throttle! It has no brakes. Or at least I don't know how to get them work from the transmitter's settings.

Oh, I almost forgot - the weight distribution is perfect left to right. The front/back is also pretty balanced. The front is a tiny little bit heavier. I don't know how to measure center of gravity - sorry.

One more impressive thing - turning radius is pretty small, which is good.

And for dessert - here is a little video: CLICK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYQE-34TlC4)

I'll test it on our carpet track next week and will post comments and maybe video. Don't expect much from me. Our track is pretty homemade and small one. Here in Bulgaria we don't have mini-z clubs with decent tracks.

Hope this helps :)

EMU
2011.09.03, 08:55 AM
Thanks for sharing your review. The car seems to be exactly what I expected it to be :) I feared the rear spur/pinion would wobble a bit to the diff.

The entire top plate having to be removed to access the springs/knuckles... is kind of funny :rolleyes:

Its hard to tell, but are the battery terminals fixed in place, or can they be moved forward and backward like the old Xmod?

Thanks again for taking the time to do the review.

color01
2011.09.03, 04:57 PM
Looks like the servo's attached to the battery holders so that would be a no*.

*Of course you can, with a dremel, shims, screws, and free time. :)



Thanks for the review Bodom!

Bodom
2011.09.06, 07:23 AM
Second part.
I don't get the point of moving the battery terminals or battery holders around. color01 is right - the servo is attached to the battery holders. You will see.

First impression was that the transmission and suspension parts are the same as MA-010. But it's not true :) There are some minor differences which would make it a little bit harder to accommodate Kyosho parts.
The knuckles have a bit longer "kingpin" and it is a little bit thinner.
Kyosho's knuckles are 3.3mm at the kingpin, iWaver's are 3.2mm. This is why Kyosho knuckles doesn't fit in front.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130078.jpg

The outdrives are different too.. And they are not aluminum as I first thought. I think the iWaver's outdrives are little longer.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130080.jpg
On top is 3Racing aluminum for MA-010, below is the iWAver's.

Rear diff. assembly.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130063.jpg

The servo is unknown :)
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130065.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130066.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130072.jpg
Here you can see one of the stripped holes (the screw with plastic on it)

Front diff assembly.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130073.jpg

Tie rod looks the same as Kyosho's.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130074.jpg
On top is iWaver's, below is Kyosho's.

Bodom
2011.09.06, 07:27 AM
Motor holder.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130075.jpg

The board.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130076.jpg

The other side of the board :)
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/Bodom_photos/iWaver%2004M/P1130077.jpg

The FET's are 4512C single layer. I am not a FET guy, so I hope you can tell are they good, and are they better compared to 3010's.

The motor pinion is 17T. Spur gear is 29T. Central shaft pinions are 8T. The diffs are 28T.

And that's it. It was hard to disassemble. I think it would be pain in the... changing parts. To change the tie rod - you have to disassemble pretty much everything :D.

Next to come is the track test this week.
Cheers.

Felix2010
2011.09.06, 09:34 AM
Bodom - Thank you for the very-detailed review on the Iwaiver 04M, great review! You really took the time to photograph and hit every key point us tuners want to know about the chassis. :)

I saw the 04M for sale online only a few days ago and I honestly thought that it had a lot of potential… I was actually kind of thinking, “Wow, not bad!”. After reading this review, I am sitting here…. SMH...:confused: All that potential (the overall design and execution), and just so many shortcuts & disappointing choices in choice of materials, manufacturing flaws, and as EMU mentioned earlier - Standard-Iwaiver-quality(ehrr, I mean Non-Quality) electronics.:(

To buy it and basically have to replace/hand-make(remake) the whole chassis from ground-up> IMHO, such a waste of so much potential & good ideas (Revisions of certain things about Kyosho’s MA010 design I mean)…:(

I know the price-point is low and that is an Iwaiver priority. I guess you do get your money’s worth. My question now to everyone - Does anyone think this chassis kit is worth a “re-do” with Kyosho-quality parts & electronics? Is the overall design of the 04M better than the MA-010 (batteries located on the sides, motor up-top, electronics on bottom, standard-type servo)???

Again, thank you for the detailed review and pics Bodom!!!:D:D
I’m curious to hear what other people think about this chassis…?

thestug
2011.09.06, 10:22 AM
Awesome review! How much do these cost?

Bodom
2011.09.06, 11:17 AM
I am glad see that you value my work.
They cost around $80.

color01
2011.09.06, 05:26 PM
I think it's worth waiting to see what Iwaver comes up with in terms of parts support -- if this is an $80 dead end then #@$! no it's not worth it, but if they come out with decent-quality aluminum hop-ups, then all we have to do is cut a new chassis bottom plate and replace the electronics and I think the chassis will be a fun "project car" kind of deal.

thestug
2011.09.06, 05:39 PM
$80 for one of those. It seems a bit, high for something that is poor quality plastic and unreliable electronics. Can it use kyosho AWD diffs?

Bodom
2011.09.07, 02:26 AM
$80 for one of those. It seems a bit, high for something that is poor quality plastic and unreliable electronics. Can it use kyosho AWD diffs?

Yes, it can.

wildthing
2011.09.07, 04:11 PM
If you buy wholesale from them, they go as low as US$ 50 + freight + taxes if your customs will tax you.

Very nice review.

The transmitter can actually accept module, unfortunately, Longsun didn't care so much to actually place their module inside the module box. Instead they soldered it directly to the mobo of the tx.

That same tx is used in their AM band versions (which actually uses that module). I have modified the tx on my rentals - there are only three wires involved: positive, negative and signal.

The rx module is entirely new because they have separated the servo. I suspect that that servo is made by VIGO, similar servo with the Iwaver 02 (FM IWAVER sold by ToyEast. Those are about US$2.50 servos.

Bodom
2011.09.08, 06:56 AM
Thank you for the info wildthing.

I found some spare parts at Miracle Mart - here (http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=74_565&sort=20a&page=1). Most of them look like stock parts, not an upgrade parts.

WhiteCharisma
2011.09.08, 02:07 PM
Thanks for the small review. I'm curious to see what parts, if not all MA-010 parts will fit. I was wondering though, does the binding happen because the gears are too tight together? Or is it because the gears are poorly made and do not mesh well? I'd love to try one and see if swapping out the diffs with smoother kyosho ones or quiet atomic diffs like on my MA-010 would help. I also noticed that my MA-010 is similar to the IW-04m you use when you applied the throttle. Mind is smooth and run fine, but the wheels seem to stop fast and not spin much further after the throttle is let go. Are there any trim options on the controller? Like throttle, steering, sensitivity of both etc. I might move to this platform from my xmods since all I do is drift :p

Cherub1m
2011.09.08, 10:17 PM
Nice review Bodom. I like the video and the 184 grams wt with batteries. I hope you get a chance to take it to a big track and run it hard.

Good luck

wildthing
2011.09.09, 06:23 AM
Thank you for the info wildthing.

I found some spare parts at Miracle Mart - here (http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=74_565&sort=20a&page=1). Most of them look like stock parts, not an upgrade parts.

They are indeed stock parts...th stock parts i ordered arrived today. I hope to compare the price of miracle mart to the one i got from Longsun.

Bodom
2011.09.09, 08:39 AM
What about the FETs?
4512C single layer.
I found Data sheet (http://analogpowerinc.com/datasheet.php?data1=DS_AM4512C_N), but it tells me nothing :)
What would be the motor limit? Would it work with Kyosho's XSpeed V ?

wildthing
2011.09.09, 01:57 PM
I think that stock FET is not capable handling upgraded motors. I really have not tried changing any of my rentals' motor upto now (after nearly two years).

Bodom
2011.09.10, 03:49 PM
I just came from the track. It handled pretty well. No traction rolls or chatter. I had to trim the steering to 60% to feel comfortable.
Drawbacks:
You have to predict its behavior. And if anything goes wrong - you are doomed due to the steering lag.
It gets hot. You can feel the bottom of the chassis warm. And the motor gets very hot. I couldn't hold my finger on it for more than half a second.
One of the tires got stuck and I was too lazy to disassemble and solve the problem.

I got video clip. Will post it soon.

wildthing
2011.09.10, 03:57 PM
maybe the tires that have stuck could have cause the excessive ampere draw and weird behaviour...is your unit running on ball-bearings at the wheels?

Bodom
2011.09.10, 04:30 PM
maybe the tires that have stuck could have cause the excessive ampere draw and weird behaviour...is your unit running on ball-bearings at the wheels?

It's on bushings at the wheels. Maybe you are right.

Bodom
2011.09.11, 04:15 AM
Here are the videos:
First drive with kyosho tires and fresh batteries (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gevAQgft-A).
Second run with stock wheels and tires (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvBgCUyATrM).

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpFwifGsxs4) is my firend's MR-02EX on the run.

P.S. Sorry for the low quality due to the low light conditions.

thestug
2011.09.12, 11:35 PM
It looks very slow compared to a stock AWD or are my eyes deceiving me?

wildthing
2011.09.13, 05:56 AM
The stock motor is cheapo...you can't expect so much from it vs mini Z unless you use same stock motor of kyosho.

WhiteCharisma
2011.09.13, 01:53 PM
It also seems a lot louder then a stock MA-010. Have you found out a solution to make the drivetrain smoother? Or is it still binding a lot? That might be why the board gets so warm. It might be trying to power through the tight gear setup. Also, the bushings might be robbing power as well because it looks like its even slower then my stock xmod lol

Bodom
2011.09.14, 01:35 AM
It also seems a lot louder then a stock MA-010. Have you found out a solution to make the drivetrain smoother? Or is it still binding a lot? That might be why the board gets so warm. It might be trying to power through the tight gear setup. Also, the bushings might be robbing power as well because it looks like its even slower then my stock xmod lol

Yes, the transmission is binding and the bushings are rubbing. The transmission could be fixed with new spur gear and bearings.
The spur of the car spins uneven at the rear diff coupling. Also the diffs sit tight and cannot be shimmed to adjust gear mesh.
But the car is not mine. I got it just to review it. So I wanted to make no modifications. Just out of the box.

wildthing
2011.09.16, 03:32 AM
My IW04 arrived today.. Will do some test and update bodoms' evaluation

Bodom
2011.09.16, 05:34 AM
My IW04 arrived today.. Will do some test and update bodoms' evaluation

Nice! Can't wait to hear somebody's else opinion :)

wildthing
2011.09.17, 07:08 PM
My first conversion was to rewire the battery holder to use lithium ion battery. This was very easy after dismantling the motor mount and battery holder and modifying the "series" config into 2S 2P configuration. So the power is now 7.2 to 8.2v.

I manage to run it for ten minutes continuously without a problem other than a very hot motor...even if I decreased the throttle EPA both forward and reverse to just 10%.

The next modification was to install drift tires on it. I was able to run it another 10-20 minutes in drift configuration but the steering suddenly had a problem. At drift mode I increased the throttle forward EPA to 15% make smoother drift.

Upon inspection of the the damaged servo, it was working running but one of the plastic studs that holds one of the idler gears gave-in and broke. I suspect that the high voltage (>6v) supplied by the lithium ion battery caused this problem. Apparently there is no BEC/voltage regulator for the servo.

What I appreciate is that the whole PCB can handle the higher voltage from the lithium ions.

My third mod was to make it 2P instead of 2S2P so the power is just 3.6 to 4.1v. I also removed the capcitors on the motor...during test the servo (I have spares) started to twitch beyond control. The twitch was solved (for now) when I soldered back the 2 104 ceramic capacitors of the motor. But I still have to test this configuration if it will really last.

For now I am considering adding a voltage regulator IC (LM78M05 this the one with a bigger packing TO-220)...because the smaller LM78L05 could not handle the power draw of the servo.

wildthing
2011.09.17, 07:17 PM
Overall, the handling on rubber tires was way better than a two wheel drive (as expected). On drift tires, they where also good...but would require some modifications so that the camber can be adjusted for better drift.

The unit is heavy, but I think the set-up can be hacked into a carbon fiber base plate/chassis and have the top plate also modified (cut) to make it lighter. It would also be perfect if they can have aluminum motor mount with adjustable motor position for possible gear upgrades in the future.

thestug
2011.10.11, 05:17 PM
Are the wheels on that car made of metal or just chromed plastic. They look exactly like the 3racing aluminum wheels.

herman
2011.10.11, 10:28 PM
@bodom

hmm... from the vids it does look kinda slow... and shows some evidence of some binding somewhere (derived from looking at your driving... looks like you have to self correct the steering after coming out of the corners)...

were you able to fix the binding issue? and if so, how did it run?

herman
2011.10.11, 10:29 PM
@wildthing

any binding issues with yours? can you post any videos?

Bodom
2011.10.12, 03:13 AM
@thestug: The wheels are plastic.
@herman: The car is definitely binding. There is binding in the gear mesh of the rear diff. There is binding in the wheel bushings and the drive shafts.
The motor got really hot and the batteries gone pretty fast. On the second video they are already faded.
The car is not mine and I returned it to its owner a long time ago.
I had to put bearings, decent drive shafts and replace the spur gear to make it run smoother.. too much modifications and after all I wanted to present the car out of the box.
The control of the car was pretty difficult too. I had to correct the steering after turns as it is slow and most of the time I had to predict where the car would go to and most of the time I failed predicting :)

FocusOne
2012.03.10, 02:48 PM
I recently became interested in this, this review helped A LOT. Now I just need to decide if it's worth the money as a basher (total $140 to get to Canada).

BUT:

It's being offered with a new white transmitter which advertises "Ultra speed response system(USRS)". I'd like to see if anyone's got experience with this, whether or not it's BS or if people behind Iwaver/Firelap actually listened and increased the response-rate. The old black transmitter (featured in this review) doesn't advertise this, so maybe this is actually legit?

It also advertises a range of 50m.

Anywho, I'm leaning towards the white M3 but won't be able to get anything till summer (work).

wildthing
2012.03.16, 08:30 PM
@ Focus one,
If the tx is as good as they claim it, then you might want to order a spare rx that match that tx, so that you can use the tx for your other kits (1/10 scale perhaps) too.

The 50m distance would actually be not needed by the firelap, because at a distance of 50m, you probably will not see your car any more :D

The noise seems to emanate from the gear of the differential and its matching pinions. Maybe if it was a higher pitch, the noise would be lesser. The rattling of the body is my next suspect...

To further lessen the binding, I replaced the plastic knuckle bearings with sealed ball bearings, add a shim to the tires as needed (so that it doesn't lock up the bearing when the wheels are tightened). Replaced the plastic wheel nut with a metal one.

I also modified my AWD firelap into a CS (counter steer) setup 114% rear. I did this by changing the front pinion. Stock pinion was 8T front and rear, I made the front pinion 7T. I think the car improved its drift response. I will try to run it in the tracks later and see what it does.

yamar6
2013.01.10, 09:37 PM
I know this is a old thread but just bought mine .first I bought the awd with the crappy radio so the car has no brake function.but the chassis is white and black.plastic feels good no strip holes and the gearing does not bind.also I think the mini z cvd's will fit better because they are shorter there is a lot of play in the wheels.also the stock car is faster then my xmod street with stage 2 motor in it.also the car is very lite

Customizer
2013.01.11, 09:51 AM
I know this is a old thread but just bought mine .first I bought the awd with the crappy radio so the car has no brake function.but the chassis is white and black.plastic feels good no strip holes and the gearing does not bind.also I think the mini z cvd's will fit better because they are shorter there is a lot of play in the wheels.also the stock car is faster then my xmod street with stage 2 motor in it.also the car is very lite

You mentioned the chassis being white and black Yamar6. Is it the same color as the chassis reviewed in this thread by Bodom (which looks grey on my monitor)?

You also mentioned the car being very light ..this is interesting as the car reviewed in this thread weighs 184 grams.

The car i bought is listed as weighing 132 grams. Now its possible that weight is without the batteries but 4 AAA batteries are 40 grams so it makes me wonder whats changed between the model Bodom reviewed and the one i bought (and possibly you as well).

Which car body did your chassis come with?

yamar6
2013.01.11, 12:17 PM
here is mine....it is lighter then my xmod street also mine came with bearings in the diffs and middle shaft not the knuckles.Also i emailed firelap to see if i can send it back and gt the one with the better radio because mine has no brake funtion

Customizer
2013.01.15, 07:12 AM
So a Firelap IW04m AWD arrived yesterday.
My overall thoughts of the car are good but before i jump into the good i'd like to address the (potentially) bad.

I have no frame of reference with AWD cars but this car , when turning left (imagine being in the drivers seat), the chassis drags the front right wheel at low speeds. Specifically when turning right it spins freely but when turning left at low speeds the tire wont spin and drags . Initially i thought that the body wasn't sitting correctly and rubbing against the tire but lo and behold that wasn't the case.

When i took the car off of the ground for a closer inspection i steered the tires to the left while giving it throttle. At low speeds the front right tire seems as though its fighting something and doesnt want to spin. I increased the acceleration and it began spinning . I slowed down and , sure enough, back to fighting something.

I have no idea what a bushing is lol but i read in this thread that a bushing on the wheel might cause binding (specifically Bodom went through this ). What can i take off , sand /trim and replace that will fix this low speed turning issue?

Yamar6...does your car do this? I have the same black and white chassis as you (not the grey like Bodoms reviewed car).

I'm starting to really like this forum ;)

yamar6
2013.01.15, 07:30 AM
no... but i also put bearings in the knuckles.I have alot of play in the wheels but im going with one of the kyosho hopup cvd's because they are a little shorter.which radio did you get if you bought the one with the better radio do u have a brakeSo a Firelap IW04m AWD arrived yesterday.
My overall thoughts of the car are good but before i jump into the good i'd like to address the (potentially) bad.

I have no frame of reference with AWD cars but this car , when turning left (imagine being in the drivers seat), the chassis drags the front right wheel at low speeds. Specifically when turning right it spins freely but when turning left at low speeds the tire wont spin and drags . Initially i thought that the body wasn't sitting correctly and rubbing against the tire but lo and behold that wasn't the case.

When i took the car off of the ground for a closer inspection i steered the tires to the left while giving it throttle. At low speeds the front right tire seems as though its fighting something and doesnt want to spin. I increased the acceleration and it began spinning . I slowed down and , sure enough, back to fighting something.

I have no idea what a bushing is lol but i read in this thread that a bushing on the wheel might cause binding (specifically Bodom went through this ). What can i take off , sand /trim and replace that will fix this low speed turning issue?

Yamar6...does your car do this? I have the same black and white chassis as you (not the grey like Bodoms reviewed car).

I'm starting to really like this forum ;)

Customizer
2013.01.15, 08:16 AM
no... but i also put bearings in the knuckles.I have alot of play in the wheels but im going with one of the kyosho hopup cvd's because they are a little shorter.which radio did you get if you bought the one with the better radio do u have a brake

Thanks for the reply :)

To answer your question, no, i have the same transmitter as you (the TG-05).

I decided to trouble shoot while i waited on replies / help. I loosened the front right wheel nut and that helped very little (but some). I assume that would have helped a "binding" issue if that were the case. I then removed the entire front right wheel and watched the exposed part of the CVD spin and that gave me a better perspective. At low speeds , indeed, the right cvd isnt spinning or spins with difficulty when turning *sharp* left. It makes a "click click click" noise when turning left as well. A subtle or soft low speed left and it spins well enough. When you are going straight it spins fine. When you accelerate at high speed the wheels spin fine.

I drove the car a bit more at high speeds with sharp turns , drifts (dusty wood floor) , etc and that seemed to break them in slightly. The situation isnt solved but its better.

Despite this i actually like the cars performance so far and i can imagine when i race it on my track (home built RCP style) it should be fine. It's fast enough, responds well enough for fast driving and taking sharp turns and seems like a solid car. The transmitter is solid as well. Clearly Kyosho CVD's are in my future.

Question's:
1. Did your car behave like mine prior to you replacing the CVD's and adding bearings to the knuckles?

2. Do the Kyosho cvd's fit well despite being slightly shorter? And does their being shorter make them superior in some way? Edit: NM. I just read your post on the previous page regarding CVD's.

3. Beginner question lol - how does one add bearings to knuckles? Edit: NM...after a google search i think i have a clear picture of how that works.

4. ....You've had smooth driving overall with your IW04m?

Customizer
2013.01.15, 08:36 AM
I just came from the track. It handled pretty well. No traction rolls or chatter. I had to trim the steering to 60% to feel comfortable.
Drawbacks:
You have to predict its behavior. And if anything goes wrong - you are doomed due to the steering lag.
It gets hot. You can feel the bottom of the chassis warm. And the motor gets very hot. I couldn't hold my finger on it for more than half a second.
One of the tires got stuck and I was too lazy to disassemble and solve the problem.

I got video clip. Will post it soon.

Bodom can you clarify this please? Did the wheel completely stop spinning? which wheel specifically if you recall?

yamar6
2013.01.15, 09:14 AM
my car was smooth from the start also i only added bearings changing them is simple take the tire off and the knuckle of the car the cvd pulls out u will see 2 black bushings take them out put the bearings in then put car back together.u might have a bad front diff i would email the guy u bought it off of and see if he can give u a new diff. Thanks for the reply :)

To answer your question, no, i have the same transmitter as you (the TG-05).

I decided to trouble shoot while i waited on replies / help. I loosened the front right wheel nut and that helped very little (but some). I assume that would have helped a "binding" issue if that were the case. I then removed the entire front right wheel and watched the exposed part of the CVD spin and that gave me a better perspective. At low speeds , indeed, the right cvd isnt spinning or spins with difficulty when turning *sharp* left. It makes a "click click click" noise when turning left as well. A subtle or soft low speed left and it spins well enough. When you are going straight it spins fine. When you accelerate at high speed the wheels spin fine.

I drove the car a bit more at high speeds with sharp turns , drifts (dusty wood floor) , etc and that seemed to break them in slightly. The situation isnt solved but its better.

Despite this i actually like the cars performance so far and i can imagine when i race it on my track (home built RCP style) it should be fine. It's fast enough, responds well enough for fast driving and taking sharp turns and seems like a solid car. The transmitter is solid as well. Clearly Kyosho CVD's are in my future.

Question's:
1. Did your car behave like mine prior to you replacing the CVD's and adding bearings to the knuckles?

2. Do the Kyosho cvd's fit well despite being slightly shorter? And does their being shorter make them superior in some way? Edit: NM. I just read your post on the previous page regarding CVD's.

3. Beginner question lol - how does one add bearings to knuckles? Edit: NM...after a google search i think i have a clear picture of how that works.

4. ....You've had smooth driving overall with your IW04m?

Customizer
2013.01.15, 09:39 AM
Considering i have a no frame of reference regarding AWD RC's i'm not sure if what i'm seeing/hearing is "normal" or not as the car drives fine. It's just that cvd issue and only at a sharp turning angle. Of course if you havent experienced that then i feel confident that something is indeed wrong.

I wonder if i pull the stock CVD;s out for a close up inspection if there will be something i can sand or trim. Excess plastic maybe? I'm shooting in the dark here but "clicks" usually mean a non smooth surface.

Bodom
2013.01.15, 12:13 PM
Bodom can you clarify this please? Did the wheel completely stop spinning? which wheel specifically if you recall?

Hello Suntzu28,
This thing happened so long time ago, that I don't remember what exactly happened :). I suppose that the wheel got hair in it. Or maybe the CVD itself got hair. :rolleyes:
I didn't have such problem with the car (one wheel spinning harder than the others).
I suppose you have bad diff or bad CVD. Try to determine which part is binding.
Disassemble the car and get the wheel + the knuckle + CVD separated from the car and inspect the freeness of the spinning. Inspect the CVD itself by swinging the dog bone around and see if it moves around freely. Get the diff itself and rotate each of the outdrives. It sould spin free and click-less.
Good luck :)

Customizer
2013.01.16, 05:54 AM
So i removed both front wheels , knuckles and swing shafts and gave both CVD's a thorough visual inspection and rotation. One definitely had a hang up of some type but it was difficult to pinpoint if it was in the interior of the CVD where the metal pin keeps both parts aligned or if the problem was elsewhere. I ran my fingernail over the CVD neck that mated with the cup to see if i felt anything (like plastic flash) on the surface . There was none...except for 1 tiny imperfection towards the top where the neck and cup of the cvd meet. Rather than sand i used a razor and lightly trimmed the surface of that imperfection until my fingernail ran over it smoothly. I repeated that process on the other side and on both sides of the CVD that had no problem.

She runs smooth now :D


For the random person looking for another review of this car:

Overall the quality of this car is nice (especially for the low price i paid for it). Of course this is the black and white chassis with TG-05 transmitter (not the grey chassis with TG-03 transmitter Bodom reviewed on page 1) so perhaps Firelap made some improvements with the latest black and white chassis. Yamar6 stated that he had no wheel rotation problems. In my case i did due to the CVD so it's difficult to rate this car. One one hand ,after scrapping the CVD with a razor i'd give it an 8 out of 10 . It's fast and reacts well. The only thing that would make it a solid 10 would be if it came with the best transmitter available. Of course i've had no problem with the transmitter yet so how can i complain about that?

On the other hand i DID have to scrape the CVD neck so its not like it was perfect out of the box. I think Yamar6 would be a better example of the car being an 8 or 9 out of 10 since he didn't have to make any repairs. If i rated it out of the box without CVD scraping... 7 out of 10.

I dislike the hardness of the body even though it looks good. It makes putting the shell on a bit more difficult than it should be. I'm of above average strength so i can only imagine what it would be like for a 12 yr old . They'd put more aggression into trying to put the body on and probably break it.


Plastic Quality (chassis) - Good. It isnt a brittle ABS but instead reminds me of a High Density Polyethylene or Propylene . I think Ethylene as the white plastic is very similar to my hard plastic chopping board in the kitchen. Strong but will flex if you force it. This compared to the IW01 which had a harder plastic that was prone to cracking.

Steering Response - Good. I drove the car at the lowest speed possible and navigated my way through narrow paths fluidly. At high speeds it reacted well to sharp turn commands.

Speed - Over a 14ft straight it moved pretty fast. fast enough that i dont think i was able to hit full speed in that stretch. In addition this was on a slightly dusty slick floor. I can only imagine if it was on a surface that had grip.

Wire quality - i did not open the chassis completely to take a look at the wire gauge or quality but the visible wires are thicker than what i've seen on the IW01 i have (whose wires i replaced with a larger gauge).

The car is just really , really solid. If the best stock Kyosho MR02 is a 9 or 10 out of 10 then i'd have to rank this AWD car at least an 8 (if it has no repairs needed). Not having to worry about interference due to it being 2.4ghz is pretty damn nice as well.


I'll add this as well - the only thing i can think of that would have made this a perfect stock RTR out of the box would be metal Universal Swing Shafts and metal bearings. That , in my opinion , would not justify me paying $184 more for a car that came with those features.

Bodom
2013.01.16, 08:23 AM
Hey, Suntzu28,
I'm glad to hear you solved the CVD problem.
Have you watched THIS (http://youtu.be/cYQE-34TlC4) video that I've made? Does your car reacts the same way to commands?
My opinion is that it has rather slow reaction time and I really had to predict and turn the wheel before the actual turn. Also the car doesn't have crawling speed.. The speed controller starts the engine quite harsh with moderately not so slow speed. In the video I mainly drive the car with minimal amount of throttle applied, let's say I drive it with it's lowest speed.
Given that information I wouldn't rate the car that high :)

yamar6
2013.01.16, 09:39 AM
Suntzu28, your car did not come with blue cvd's

Customizer
2013.01.16, 09:49 AM
Bodom,
...now you have given me an excuse to go play..err...test the car :)
Before i go test the car again i will answer your questions based upon my previous observations following the CVD fix.

Yes, i've seen your video. In fact your videos were one of the few sources of concrete information available (along with the member Reapers opinion given on another board and this thread). Ultimately your review cars problems being chalked up to binding made me willing to take a risk on the car at the right price. Binding can be fixed (after repairing my IW01 PCB problem i figured nothing can be as bad as that lol). Thank you for the review btw :D

No, my car doesn't react that way to commands ( i will test it again and follow up with a confirmation). The car responds to the transmitter commands quicker both on the ground and on the floor. I was specifically checking for steering lag based upon what i saw in your video as soon as i opened the package and set up the car. I *hate* steering lag. I can deal with any other problem but low quality transmitter / receiver signals is a deal breaker for me. Whats the point of having a radio control car if the damn thing reacts to controls 1-2 seconds after you send the command? Also i was told that the TG-03 transmitter (the one you had in the review) is the worst of the bunch as the LCD screen draws too much power away from the transmitter while the car itself needed every bit of signal it could get to control the steering. I assume this is why the transmitter that came after (which i have ) , the TG 05 , has no LCD screen. This is from a seller of this vehicle and from Firelap (iWaver) themselves. Apparently the new / latest color LCD screen white transmitter (TG-04c) that comes with the Firelaps is more efficient in the power department ( i have no idea how or why..).

My car does have crawling speed. In fact it was the crawling speed which alerted me to the CVD binding. Had it been going a moderate speed to fast i would not have known as the power at high speed was forcing the CVD to rotate relatively smoothly. It was only when i just barely touched the throttle and made left turns while crawling that i realized that the front right wheel was not turning & instead being dragged.

The way the car in your video reacts to barely touching the throttle is the way my car reacts when going moderately fast. In fact it reminds me of when i performed the straight line speed test over 14 feet. I squeezed the trigger full throttle and it took off like your car did in the video (it went straight. No spin out).

Customizer
2013.01.16, 09:57 AM
Suntzu28, your car did not come with blue cvd's

Yes it came with the blue CVD's like Bodom has pictured on the first page.

I wonder if Bodoms tire stopping was due to the same problem (cvd with miniscule plastic flash)? I wouldnt be surprised .

Did your car have blue cvd's? Youd think if they changed (upgraded?) the chassis from grey to black and white they'd upgrade the cvd's as well.

Or not lol. Upgrades generate revenue.

Yamar6 maybe you can answer some of Bodoms questions as well considering you have more experience with this scale of car and this specific IW04M than i do.

yamar6
2013.01.16, 10:25 AM
i can drive slow and the respond is great.The one thing is when you let go of the trigger the brake goes on i wish they had it like the xmod.2 complaints that i have out of box was how the brake works and the wheel wobble is worst then the xmods im thinking that ma-010 cvd'swill fix the problem because they are shorter and the mini z rims probbly fit better.I think we all bought a great car but we bought it with a crappy radio i was woundering if some one new about radios that maybe something we can change to make the brake work like the rest of the rc cars. Hey, Suntzu28,
I'm glad to hear you solved the CVD problem.
Have you watched THIS (http://youtu.be/cYQE-34TlC4) video that I've made? Does your car reacts the same way to commands?
My opinion is that it has rather slow reaction time and I really had to predict and turn the wheel before the actual turn. Also the car doesn't have crawling speed.. The speed controller starts the engine quite harsh with moderately not so slow speed. In the video I mainly drive the car with minimal amount of throttle applied, let's say I drive it with it's lowest speed.
Given that information I wouldn't rate the car that high :)

Customizer
2013.01.16, 10:45 AM
i can drive slow and the respond is great.The one thing is when you let go of the trigger the brake goes on i wish they had it like the xmod.2 complaints that i have out of box was how the brake works and the wheel wobble is worst then the xmods im thinking that ma-010 cvd'swill fix the problem because they are shorter and the mini z rims probbly fit better.I think we all bought a great car but we bought it with a crappy radio i was woundering if some one new about radios that maybe something we can change to make the brake work like the rest of the rc cars.


Did you have blue cvd's as well?

yamar6
2013.01.16, 11:04 AM
yes.. blue metal ones black and white chassis Did you have blue cvd's as well?

Customizer
2013.01.16, 11:49 AM
It's interesting that you mentioned XMods as i recall that in years past (5 years ago) running production improvements and upgrades were made to some of Radioshacks other RC product lines (specifically Radioshacks Zip Zaps and Xmod Micros). I recall those lines having cars that were lacking in one feature or another or having glaring weaknesses only to be improved without a public declaration in the next wave of production. PCB's changed. Plastic quality and type changed. Component locations changed as well i believe.

I only bring this up as it seems like Firelap made a running production change (or improvement) from the grey chassis and TG03 to the black and white chassis with the TG05 clearly to address specific quality issues. Based upon what you've reported regarding yours and what i've seen of mine (putting aside the binding cvd for a moment) these cars are clearly better than they were (assuming all of the grey chassis cars were like Bodoms review car & TG03 transmitter). It's a kick ass little car. I'm really curious to see what an extra $100-$200 would get me from Kyosho and if its really worth the price.

yamar6
2013.01.16, 12:21 PM
Kyosho ma-010 has it's problems and not worth the price the 02 and 03 are I hope the ma-010 after market knuckles will fit if so this car will race great with the ma-010.if the color screen radio does not give the awd a brake then I will be putting the mini z brushless system in it I think it will be a better choice then the ma-010

FocusOne
2013.01.16, 11:48 PM
wow, great to hear about the improvements on the IW-04M!

I was seriously considering getting this half a year ago (as my previous post confirms) but with all the flaws and money issues I was hesitant...then my friend sold me his MA-010.

I guess this'll be my next car! Then I can keep one w/ long wheelbase (for my Xmods bodies) and one short.

Customizer
2013.01.17, 01:13 AM
wow, great to hear about the improvements on the IW-04M!

I was seriously considering getting this half a year ago (as my previous post confirms) but with all the flaws and money issues I was hesitant...then my friend sold me his MA-010.

I guess this'll be my next car! Then I can keep one w/ long wheelbase (for my Xmods bodies) and one short.


HA! FocusOne i signed in specifically to reply to your PM regarding this car and my opinion with a link to this thread and here you are :D

I really like the car now that the CVD issue has been fixed. I cant really find fault with it now unless i start to truly nitpick. The body is hard to put on? It has no brake (which i wasn't expecting nor do i want)?

I can only imagine what my opinion would have been like if , like Yamar6, i had no problems out of the box. The CVD fix was minor but i'm looking at it from the perspective of an inexperienced new comer hobbyist (like myself in a manner of speaking) that does not have the patience, knowledge or skill to make repairs minor or major (i'm comfortable with and almost expect to have to repair everything). For the experienced guys on this board the black and white chassis IW04M should be a great car to customize. For a child or teen that just wants a RTR car ..well...Yamar6's car was fine. Mine was about 90% fine due to the CVD problem. I dont think an inexperienced driver or child might have noticed the CVD problem though since it only occurred with sharp turns and at the lowest possible speed.

Anyway , yeah , for someone like you FocusOne this car should be a sweet car to work with. I'm looking forward to seeing what experienced folks do with it ( so i can copy their recipe lol).

yamar6
2013.01.17, 02:35 AM
next month im going to order another one but with the color screen radio but i want to find out if it has a brake also see if i can buy it with the 2 wheel drive one.Because my awd runs perfect also does anyone know if kyosho knuckles fit the white and black chassis the all gray one needed the holes drilled out bigger but firelap says they fit.

Bodom
2013.01.17, 03:01 AM
Good to hear that they improved the quality.
I doubt the response time is great though.
I think the main advantages of the MA-010 are the great electronics (precise and very fast), and also the huge availability of tuning parts. There are superb suspension systems for the MA-010 on the market that are incompatible with IW-04M. And the IW-04M is using the original MA-010 suspension design which isn't great. And even more - the knuckles are incompatible.
IW-04M is great bang for the buck though.
Enjoy your rides :cool:

Customizer
2013.01.17, 06:07 AM
Good to hear that they improved the quality.
I doubt the response time is great though.
I think the main advantages of the MA-010 are the great electronics (precise and very fast), and also the huge availability of tuning parts. There are superb suspension systems for the MA-010 on the market that are incompatible with IW-04M. And the IW-04M is using the original MA-010 suspension design which isn't great. And even more - the knuckles are incompatible.
IW-04M is great bang for the buck though.
Enjoy your rides :cool:

Bodom i mentioned i would test the cars responsiveness again & i have . This is the best i could do as far as compiling information short of creating a video.

Note: The car had 4 freshly charged NI-MH Rayovac AAA's in it. The Transmitter had Rayovac AA's in it that weren't freshly charged but barely used so i'd consider them "fresh enough" lol.

I turned on your video (the same one that i watched to determine if i wanted this car in the first place last month) here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cYQE-34TlC4 that deals with the cars responsiveness to transmitter commands. The PC monitor is less than a foot and a half from my face showing the video while i'm testing simultaneously. I am in a room with WiFi signal .

The chassis (with no body shell) is placed on top of a glass candle holder 50mm in diameter in order to replicate what you had your review car suspended on.

1. The Black and White chassis IW04m i have is definitely more responsive/faster than the grey one you reviewed in the video when i issued the same commands as you did between 00:05 - 00:19 seconds of the video. It responds differently than yours did between 00:13 - 00:17 seconds of your video as well. In that time frame the review car showed a clear lag where as my black and white chassis did not.

Speculation as to why it responded differently: Fresh batteries in my transmitter and car? Maybe. I personally think it's the transmitter (TG 03) since your review shows a steering lag, sellers whom i haven't bought from said that specific transmitter (TG 03) was the one to avoid if possible and Firelap has issued not 1, not 2 but 3 different transmitters. Clearly they heard something bad about the original TG 03 or they wouldn't have spent the money for a running change (IMO). I cant say if the responsiveness is "great" or not because i dont have a Z to compare it to but it is better than the grey chassis car in the video. I'll run it on my foam track this weekend to see if the car lacks in the handling department. I'm confident that it will handle well based upon your experience on the track that you said was good.

Quotes regarding the transmitters :
There are two types with the LCD screen (color TG04c and non color TG03). The one with color lcd has superior range and best handling response. Second most responsive would be TG 05 which doesn't as an lcd screen. I wouldn't recommend the one with non color LCD *Edit: The TG 03 you reviewed the grey chassis with* since it's eating a lot of battery life and has poor performance.
I did relay your inquiry with firelap spokesperson in China. She concurred with your assessment and she mentioned the awd model draw a lot of power, therefore, it needs stronger transmitter to control the servo. She mentioned the high end controller(TG-04C)will take care of the problem.
I personally race my IW02 and IW04 on the race track against mini Z, and both of them has less superior controller ability to mini z. However, between IW02 & IW04 I would say they are both equal in response time quality.
^ That quote sealed the deal for me as i have an old IW02 and it handles just fine and is very fun to drive. I've also seen videos of stock IW02's going head to head with MR02's on RCP tracks and they held their own in every race.
I do notice mini z has a more superior signal transmission compare to firelap. There are ways to improve signal reception, these are two things I usually do:

- Use a high ampere battery and make sure they are freshly charged prior to use on the transmitter.
- Install an add on antenna in your firelap board/body to boost its signal

I am still researching more ways to increase the response time. However, in the meantime both methods above should increase response time significantly. Hope my 2cents opinions help :)

*I also read firelap do sell a high end controller(TG-04C) with lot stronger signal and can increase respond time significantly. However, I haven't had chance to get my hand on it yet


2. From 1:24 - 2:40 of your video you seem to be showing both it's responsiveness and the fact that the car wasn't crawling when you barely squeezed the throttle. My car can definitely drive slower than the one in the video when i barely squeeze the trigger but i didn't know how to quantify that statement at first. So what i did is time how long it would take to cross a 14ft distance at the slowest speed. Hardly the most scientific but good enough in this case.
1st 14ft crawl - 9 seconds (slow count). I felt as though i was barely touching the trigger.
2nd 14ft crawl - 10 seconds (slow count).
3rd attempt 01/20/13 - 23 seconds (slow count).
4th attempt 01/20/13 - 22 seconds (slow count).
Hopefully someone can test their own car and see if they have similar slow speeds over 14 ft.

Bodom you mentioned..

I think the main advantages of the MA-010 are the great electronics (precise and very fast), and also the huge availability of tuning parts. There are superb suspension systems for the MA-010 on the market that are incompatible with IW-04M. And the IW-04M is using the original MA-010 suspension design which isn't great. And even more - the knuckles are incompatible.

I trust your first hand review that the Kyosho parts aren't compatible but i am looking forward to hearing from Yamar6 after he buys some parts to see if Mini Z parts better fit the current black and white chassis. After going through my Firelap CVD issue briefly i want to see if Kyosho swing shafts are superior right out of the box . I also want to try a few other upgrade parts. BTW..regarding Firelap swing shafts..i guess i'm not alone...

i think Firelap is a lot better than the Xmods. only problems i have is all 4 of the swing shaft are broken. so i guess the quality is not that good

Holy crap! I guess i got off lucky with just one CVD that needed fixing.

I paid $66 shipped for my car which i consider to be a great deal for the quality of car i received. Knowing everything i know now if i had to do it over i'd have paid $100 shipped maximum. I plan on buying a Mini Z in the future considering how much i like the Firelap but i will be disappointed if i pay $184-$250 for a Mini Z and it's only marginally better than this Firelap. It better be a night and day difference for me to pay 3-4x as much.

yamar6
2013.01.17, 09:57 AM
even with the ma-010 old suspension set up i still think it's a better chassis.Just by the lay out every one that has a ma-010 says it's not balanced.I hope kyosho changes the awd chassis more like the new buggy such a better lay out even the xmod street has a better lay out then the ma-010 and I like how the fire lap has a servo so no wondering in the steering

yamar6
2013.01.17, 07:14 PM
I just ordered atomic cvd's and a set of lowering springs I'll do a review when they come in.also in another forum he has the gray chassis and he said he had to make the holes bigger for the mini z knuckles but on this forum the mini z ones look skinner then the fire lap gray ones so I'm hoping the new black and white chassis they will fit

Customizer
2013.01.18, 12:26 AM
I'm looking forward to an update :) Maybe not just yet but the black and white chassis IW04M might need a separate review thread considering it seems to be , well, different when compared to the grey chassis.

BTW i just received a reply from another Firelap AWD 2.4ghz owner. The chassis is black & white like ours. I've requested transmitter information from them (response time, quality) so i'll let you know what they say. They also bought a spare grey chassis so i'll see if i can get some comparison information. This is the first reply received (nothing special but it's always nice to have another persons input)...

Sorry for the late reply. I am having a lot of fun with the car. It's fast enough and makes plenty tight turns. I locked the rear differential by putting some putty inside it. This helps the car drift a little bit easier. I bought the BMW one and the body is of extremely high quality, right down to the BMW emblems. I would recommend applying some gear grease to the differentials and to the pinion gear of the motor. Do not tighten the wheel nuts too much, as that is how you will break the dogbones. Buy a set of tweezers because hair and dust tends to gather by the wheels and you're going to want to remove that.

I hope this helps you. If you have any more questions, just ask

yamar6
2013.01.18, 09:03 AM
what radio did he haveI'm looking forward to an update :) Maybe not just yet but the black and white chassis IW04M might need a separate review thread considering it seems to be , well, different when compared to the grey chassis.

BTW i just received a reply from another Firelap AWD 2.4ghz owner. The chassis is black & white like ours. I've requested transmitter information from them (response time, quality) so i'll let you know what they say. They also bought a spare grey chassis so i'll see if i can get some comparison information. This is the first reply received (nothing special but it's always nice to have another persons input)...

Customizer
2013.01.18, 09:23 AM
^
Turns out it was the same one we have (TG05)
I haven't noticed any real lag with the transmitter and the range seems impressive. I love the fact that there are no antennas. I think the white controller looks kind of cheesy, although digital trim options are usually better.

yamar6
2013.01.18, 09:43 AM
I might see if I can get the white color screen radio with a 2 wheel drive car so I have both cars because my awd electronics run perfect and don't need another

I just ordered a white enzo awd with the white controller I'll do a full review when it comes in.I'll be selling my other one once my other one comes in for a good price.^
Turns out it was the same one we have (TG05)

Customizer
2013.01.20, 03:01 AM
An update of sorts. I had some time to run the car this evening and it turns out i can make it "crawl" at a slower speed than i previous thought. Previously it took an average of 9.5 seconds to travel 14 ft at its slowest speed (so i thought). This evening i was able to make it "crawl" 14ft in 23 seconds. If i tried to turn at that slow of speed the car would stop. With just the slightest twitch on the throttle you can crawl and steer simultaneously.

Bottom line: yes it can drive *really* slow.

yamar6
2013.01.26, 12:25 PM
I put in pn racing cvd's in a much better fit no wobble and the wheel does not move in and out

Customizer
2013.01.26, 01:08 PM
Fantastic ! Alloy swings shafts are #1 on my parts upgrade list.

What color are the swing shafts? Did you buy 2 pcs or 4 pcs?

yamar6
2013.01.26, 01:27 PM
4 pcs they are dark silver colorFantastic ! Alloy swings shafts are #1 on my parts upgrade list.

What color are the swing shafts? Did you buy 2 pcs or 4 pcs?

Jeff22
2013.01.28, 12:32 PM
Hello everyone,

Has anyone else had any trouble with the micro servo breaking in this car? I have officially broken two of them, both times by a head on collision at a medium/low speed into a wall or table leg. I have decided to try my luck ordering an aftermarket one on the internet.

I also bought some new mini z AWD wheels and tires because I somehow managed to crack a rim. I also cracked a few of the stock plastic wheel nuts from I guess tightening them too much. Furthermore, I think I have broken 5 swing shafts in total so that will probably be my next upgrade.

I seem to have broken a lot of stuff on this car, but it is so much fun that it's worth replacing the parts. I am most disappointed with the servo quality. However, I am glad that they're easily removable and replaceable. I'll give an update when the new servo gets in the car

Customizer
2013.01.28, 03:31 PM
Hi Jeff :)

It's interesting to me that you asked that question regarding the micro servo as i was thinking about my cars servo the last few days. To answer your question specifically , no, i haven't had any trouble with mine but i am curious as to whether it can be upgraded and what a "better" micro servo would consist of. I'd like to upgrade once i know what is available that is better than the stock servo. I suspect you'll have really good luck with the new servo you bought. My car ran into a wall on 2 occasions recently due to low batteries in the transmitter. Fairly hard at high speed i might add. I haven't broken anything thankfully (i suspect it's due to damn hard stock Enzo body the chassis came with). I've run into chair legs on occasion as well at moderate speed.

I'm really curious as to how you managed to crack a rim :D That seems like that would be hard to do.

Regarding the swing shafts, based upon what i have gathered from multiple other IW04M owners , regardless of which chassis color they have, the swing shafts are definitely hit or miss. I had one of 4 that needed modification in order to have a smooth spin. Yamar6 above bought alloy swing shafts which work and i'll be picking some up soon myself. They're pretty much the only upgrade i feel i *need* as opposed to want. My car runs fine now but i cant help but think at some point the swing shafts will break. Maybe . Maybe not. I'd rather just buy the alloy swing shafts ASAP.

What color is your cars chassis? What body shell did it come with ? What transmitter? I'm trying to compile data on the IW04M from car owners and there definitely seems to be a trend regarding the attributes of specific chassis and transmitter types. Your answers would help :D

BTW..Yamar6 i'm really looking forward to what you have to say regarding the new transmitter you bought. I'm probably almost as eager for you to get the car as you are.



Hello everyone,

Has anyone else had any trouble with the micro servo breaking in this car? I have officially broken two of them, both times by a head on collision at a medium/low speed into a wall or table leg. I have decided to try my luck ordering an aftermarket one on the internet.

I also bought some new mini z AWD wheels and tires because I somehow managed to crack a rim. I also cracked a few of the stock plastic wheel nuts from I guess tightening them too much. Furthermore, I think I have broken 5 swing shafts in total so that will probably be my next upgrade.

I seem to have broken a lot of stuff on this car, but it is so much fun that it's worth replacing the parts. I am most disappointed with the servo quality. However, I am glad that they're easily removable and replaceable. I'll give an update when the new servo gets in the car

yamar6
2013.01.28, 06:39 PM
well its in the states some where so hopefully on Friday I'll get it

Jeff22
2013.01.29, 10:23 AM
My car came with the red BMW body. The body is gorgeous, but I didn't like the super long wheelbase. I happened to have a left over shorter Subaru Iwaver body from years ago, so I switched the chassis length to the shortest setting and put the old body on. I originally liked the Iwaver Impreza body, as it is much easier to take on and off (less creaky and more pliable) and lighter than the stock BMW body. But now I think its not protecting the chassis as well as the stock body would have. I bought a firelap Audi TT shell the other day on the internet, which is also 90 mm so at this point it should be plug and play. I just hope the Audi body is really solid like the BMW body.

The servo I bought was a 5 gram "Tower Pro". I have no idea what the specs are on the stock servo, but the size and connectors are all uniform, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Customizer
2013.01.29, 01:25 PM
Jeff what color is your chassis? Grey? Black and white?
Also does the transmitter have an LCD screen ?

I also should have mentioned - A servo with metal gears would be quite the upgrade.

reaper
2013.01.29, 02:01 PM
I have the gray chassis and lcd tx version and this came with full bearings and ally swing shafts

Customizer
2013.01.29, 03:48 PM
I have the gray chassis and lcd tx version and this came with full bearings and ally swing shafts It came with alloy swing shafts? Where did you buy it from? What color are the swing shafts? I ask as the swing shafts that are common are the blue metallic plastic shafts.

I just finished adding a new lane to my track that i literally had to make by hand. An additional 14 feet that i believe i'll keep as a straight. I cant wait to use it !

Customizer
2013.02.01, 05:14 PM
Any updates Yamar6? I'm really curious as to whether the white transmitter impacts servo reaction time or if one would need an upgraded servo for that (Kyosho)?

Have you raced your car Yamar6? Even on a home built track?

yamar6
2013.02.02, 11:14 AM
rec. the car today something must be wrong the steering locks to the left when i turn the car on also the brakes work some times.some times it brakes some times it goes right in to rev.charging the batteries to try again

Customizer
2013.02.02, 11:54 AM
rec. the car today something must be wrong the steering locks to the left when i turn the car on also the brakes work some times.some times it brakes some times it goes right in to rev.charging the batteries to try again

Ive had both of those scenarios happen to me. I've had the car go into reverse at full speed 2x (in one case i was testing a theory and it proved to be correct) and i've had the steering lock in one direction once or twice as well.

In both cases freshly charged batteries / battery replacement solved the problem :)

Specifically going in reverse happened once when i knew the transmitter or car batteries ( i dont recall which but i think it was the transmitter) batteries were low and i wanted to test what would happen when the batteries were extremely low. What i found was the car would lock its steering in one direction and forward/turn only . If i was brave enough to tap reverse as the last signal command with low batteries in the transmitter it would take off in reverse and wouldn't respond when i tried to stop it :D I assumed this might happen so i was prepared for it (the first time it happened i wasnt).

Also for the first time recently i had to rebind the car and transmitter upon turning it on. I'm sure the battery swaps and low battery had something to do with that. I vaguely recall the steering lock then at some point as well but i could be wrong. Either way rebinding solved that.

I'm looking forward to reading about the reaction time :D! I'm glad you finally received the car .

yamar6
2013.02.02, 12:46 PM
well im sending it back there is no brake only it will brake on abs when its going top speed not slow.Also the sub trims do not work for the car.The radio is worth it if you put in a 1/10 but not the car it comes with.It's not worth the 130.00 dollars thank god i used pay pal.Ive had both of those scenarios happen to me. I've had the car go into reverse at full speed 2x (in one case i was testing a theory and it proved to be correct) and i've had the steering lock in one direction once or twice as well.

In both cases freshly charged batteries / battery replacement solved the problem :)

Specifically going in reverse happened once when i knew the transmitter or car batteries ( i dont recall which but i think it was the transmitter) batteries were low and i wanted to test what would happen when the batteries were extremely low. What i found was the car would lock its steering in one direction and forward/turn only . If i was brave enough to tap reverse as the last signal command with low batteries in the transmitter it would take off in reverse and wouldn't respond when i tried to stop it :D I assumed this might happen so i was prepared for it (the first time it happened i wasnt).

Also for the first time recently i had to rebind the car and transmitter upon turning it on. I'm sure the battery swaps and low battery had something to do with that. I vaguely recall the steering lock then at some point as well but i could be wrong. Either way rebinding solved that.

I'm looking forward to reading about the reaction time :D! I'm glad you finally received the car .

Customizer
2013.02.02, 02:15 PM
Sorry to hear about the lack of brake function. I know thats the main reason you purchased the transmitter. What about the reaction time? Did you notice any difference in steering performance using it?

yamar6
2013.02.02, 02:31 PM
a little ......don't get me wrong the radio is nice but for the price I just bought a brand new arrma vortex for the same price.Sorry to hear about the lack of brake function. I know thats the main reason you purchased the transmitter. What about the reaction time? Did you notice any difference in steering performance using it?

Customizer
2013.02.02, 03:09 PM
Meh...i'm not invested in the TG04c either way. If it increases reaction time significantly as compared to the TG 05 i'll get one . If not no biggie as i'm pretty happy with the TG 05 as it is.

Can you explain what you mean by " a little" ? How much faster is the reaction time (if at all)? Is it simply not that much more of an improvement compared to the stock transmitter?

I'm actually of the impression that a different servo would help those wanting an increased reaction time as opposed to the transmitter based upon what was said here:
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=441547#post441547

yamar6
2013.02.02, 03:23 PM
I did not see really any difference a better servo will make it faster

Customizer
2013.02.02, 04:58 PM
I did not see really any difference a better servo will make it faster
Really? Wow. If i were a customer and was dissatisfied with the TG03 (the original LED transmitter) and someone at Firelap or a seller told me that the TG04C would improve reaction time i'd be irritated if it didn't. It's clear the TG05 is the way to go as far as transmitters are concerned.

I have no need for a new servo but i am curious to know which servos that are superior will fit the IW04m. Seeing the Mini Z servo reaction time versus the HiTec HS55 servo reaction time made it clear all servos aren't created equally.

Jeff22
2013.02.04, 06:24 PM
My new servo should be coming in tomorrow. It is a Hextronik HXT900. I don't know how fast the firelap servo is, but this one is rated to do a turn in 0.12 seconds. If the servo seems kind of sluggish then I'll probably mod the car to accept an extra cell, so the car will run at 6v. That should help reduce lag. I'll report back after I get it set up

yamar6
2013.02.04, 07:06 PM
I wish I new about electronics may be firelap didn't put a get to make the brake work.I can't believe they did not put a brake in it

yamar6
2013.02.04, 11:05 PM
does any body have the fire lap and a ma-010 I would like to see if the knuckles fit the white and black chassis

Customizer
2013.02.05, 01:45 AM
My new servo should be coming in tomorrow. It is a Hextronik HXT900. I don't know how fast the firelap servo is, but this one is rated to do a turn in 0.12 seconds. If the servo seems kind of sluggish then I'll probably mod the car to accept an extra cell, so the car will run at 6v. That should help reduce lag. I'll report back after I get it set up

I'm looking forward to this :) I'm specifically curious as to whether .12 reaction time is faster than what is already inside of the Firelap. I'd also like to know the servo specs for a Mini Z AWD MA-010. With Firelap not providing the specs of the servo it's kind of hard to figure out a starting point if one is considering an upgrade.

Are you familiar with the TowerPro MG90?
http://www.hobbyking(dot)com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9392

It has metal gears and is almost exactly the same as the Hextronik HXT900 based upon a youtube video comparison. It's 1.4grams heavier than the stock servo. I think i might pick it up...

Jeff22
2013.02.05, 11:24 AM
I'm looking forward to this :) I'm specifically curious as to whether .12 reaction time is faster than what is already inside of the Firelap. I'd also like to know the servo specs for a Mini Z AWD MA-010. With Firelap not providing the specs of the servo it's kind of hard to figure out a starting point if one is considering an upgrade.

Are you familiar with the TowerPro MG90?
http://www.hobbyking(dot)com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9392

It has metal gears and is almost exactly the same as the Hextronik HXT900 based upon a youtube video comparison. It's 1.4grams heavier than the stock servo. I think i might pick it up...

I got the new servo, and there's a problem - it doesn't fit. It's just a few mm too long, so it overhangs a little where you have to plug in the wire. Another issue is the spindle thing is too big for the firelap arm to fit on. I think the correct size we need is SUB-micro, not micro.

I did however test the servo unmounted and found that it works just fine. To be honest, it doesn't seem all that fast, but i'm sure it's fast enough for regular driving. I would recommend you try to buy a servo that says 0.10s.

I'm going to gut the broken firelap servo and put the Hextroniks internals minus the gears inside so at least I can have a working servo.

Customizer
2013.02.05, 11:51 AM
Yes that is what was mentioned in the HPI RS32 thread- that a servo with a reaction time of less than .10 seconds should be sought.

Im not in any hurry to buy a servo as my reaction times are just fine on the track but I would like to locate the best replacement in advance for when the time comes.

Im a bit surprised that one hasn't become readily apparent with a casual search.

Jeff can you please provide measurements of the firelap servo so we all know what dimensions we should be looking for when searching? I've only found the weight of the stock servo as far as specs.

yamar6
2013.02.05, 10:14 PM
This sucks i want to send this car back but they keep telling me it's something im doing wrong.That they want me to wait till the Chinese new year is over.Now i get a email saying it will coast to much to ship it back to them that i should just keep it and they will call fire lap to show me how to set it up.The car does not work right the radio will not remember settings and every time i turn the car back on the wheels turn one way. I have a spektrum dx3s so i know how to use a good radio with all the bells and whistles.Im going to call paypal tm and see what they say.My car with the tg05 works great i even bind my first car to the white radio and it works a little better put it back on the tg05 and works great bind the new car to the tg05 and it turns like crap.:confused:

Customizer
2013.02.06, 11:14 AM
This sucks i want to send this car back but they keep telling me it's something im doing wrong.That they want me to wait till the Chinese new year is over.Now i get a email saying it will coast to much to ship it back to them that i should just keep it and they will call fire lap to show me how to set it up.The car does not work right the radio will not remember settings and every time i turn the car back on the wheels turn one way. I have a spektrum dx3s so i know how to use a good radio with all the bells and whistles.Im going to call paypal tm and see what they say.My car with the tg05 works great i even bind my first car to the white radio and it works a little better put it back on the tg05 and works great bind the new car to the tg05 and it turns like crap.:confused:


If the car is worth keeping to you at a reduced cost state that to the seller (specifically how much of a refund you are willing to accept). If they are not willing to agree to that request and you are not pleased with a malfunctioning item file a claim through paypal that the item was not as described (which is true). Paypal will request that you ship it back with tracking as proof of delivery. Once received you'll be refunded your full paid amount.

This will prompt one or more of a few actions. 1) It may light a fire under the seller while Paypal makes a decision to contact Firelap in advance providing you with the information they claim Firelap has that will allow you to use the transmitter as you'd like to use it (if that is even possible with the car. You'll find out one way or another). 2) It may prompt them to simply settle early and agree to your partial refund request. This doesnt solve your problem with the transmitter but may make it easier to accept while you find the answer to your problem on your own.

They have no way of knowing if you've done anything wrong if they haven't provided a step by step explanation of what one should do correctly anyway.

yamar6
2013.02.06, 11:56 AM
im calling paypal now it does not remember settings also the abs brake works when it feels like it.If the car is worth keeping to you at a reduced cost state that to the seller (specifically how much of a refund you are willing to accept). If they are not willing to agree to that request and you are not pleased with a malfunctioning item file a claim through paypal that the item was not as described (which is true). Paypal will request that you ship it back with tracking as proof of delivery. Once received you'll be refunded your full paid amount.

This will prompt one or more of a few actions. 1) It may light a fire under the seller while Paypal makes a decision to contact Firelap in advance providing you with the information they claim Firelap has that will allow you to use the transmitter as you'd like to use it (if that is even possible with the car. You'll find out one way or another). 2) It may prompt them to simply settle early and agree to your partial refund request. This doesnt solve your problem with the transmitter but may make it easier to accept while you find the answer to your problem on your own.

They have no way of knowing if you've done anything wrong if they haven't provided a step by step explanation of what one should do correctly anyway.

Mattthegenus
2013.02.15, 12:34 AM
I just received mine in today, got the red M3 body and the cheap transmitter.
I got it on ebay for $50 brand new plus $12 priority shipping. The chassis is the newer black and white one, and it has narrow tires all around.
It came with the grip tires installed and they are quite nice tires very soft. I ran a pack through it like that and even in a small space it was a bit slow for my taste (I was running a mini slash with a mamba 5700 on 3s:eek:) so I slapped in an xmod stage 2 and it really perked it up. After another pack it was still running flawlessly so I put on the drift tires and I have to say it is a beautiful handling car for the price. However I must say I am not a racer so my taste may be less refined than some of you here.

So out of the box it is significantly better than an xmod with awd, and probably about 15% worse than an awd mini z, granted I sold my awd quite some time ago but I remember it being ever so slightly better. Overall I would rate it an 8/10 for the casual driver /drifter.

Future plans for upgrades include bearings for the knuckles, a set of proper offset wheels, and hopefully lowering the body enough to hide the bottom of the chassis. From there I would like to throw in a hotter motor and perhaps a set of aluminum swing shafts and a carbon driveshaft. Then way down the road convert it to run on 7.4 lipo with a 5v bec, and that should about do it.
I would like a decent all around car, as my other one has become only for top speed, which is quite fast lol!
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/mattman271/photo-5.jpg

yamar6
2013.02.15, 07:15 PM
nice car the only thing i don't like about my firelap is no brake.Chinese new year is over im going to email firelap and see if they will update the esc to have a brake.Thats the only complaint i have

yamar6
2013.03.02, 04:23 PM
finally getting my money back from paypal only took a month.Guys if you want a firelap go with the car with the tg05 don't waste your money on the other 2.so far my first one is still running great.Also firelap never got back to me about the brake.