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View Full Version : T2 v T2 Plus, what is the difference?


BrandonGR
2011.11.30, 02:31 AM
After reading reviews for the other 17mm can motors they seem to all show an increase in power. I haven't seen any info on this motor though, and it's labeled as T2-Plus, what does the Plus mean exactly? It's also at least 10 dollars cheaper. How is it different from the original T2?

byebye
2014.03.17, 06:18 PM
Bump for this unanswered question from 2011...

EMU
2014.03.17, 09:27 PM
Both motors have a 35t armature. The 17mm motor is labeled 'plus', mainly to differentiate it from its square brother. The magnets are a little smaller than the square motor, and a little weaker, however they are a little closer to the armature, so there is less air gap.

Overall the motor is smoother and less torque. The round motors are a little less efficient than the square cans, due to decreased magnetic field. I haven't measured the armature size vs the square one, because if it is a smaller armature, that would mean less wire per turn = higher RPM...

xmodcanuck
2014.03.17, 09:28 PM
I picked up a T2 Plus recently just to try it out, it was on sale. From what I can find it's simply a Plus because the original T2 was a standard can motor and the T2 Plus is a round can. (http://www.egrracing.com/shop/egr_manual/Motor_Spec_Sheet.pdf) Both are 35 turn, and whether it's right or not, it says they both use the same brushes. T2 is 40000rpm/1A T2 Plus is 41000rpm/0.9A.

byebye
2014.03.17, 09:50 PM
Thanks for the info fellas. I've found that the original T2 is a monster and they are hard to come by. I may just go with the 33t from PN.

I managed to find the T2 plus at another site going out of business and unloading everything with deep discounts and these are still available. I'm researching and not really finding a lot of info on them. It looks to me that the motor can is too round. Is this the case? I don't think it will clear a lot of today's mounts other than RM.

What did you all find?

EMU
2014.03.17, 10:02 PM
The motor is smaller than the square cans... 17mm diameter vs 20x15mm for the square cans. I don't have any clearance issues with it in any mounts that I have used. The motor tabs are rotated 90 degrees, so I actually have less difficulty using it on some motormounts like the Reflex or PN 94mm LCG mount. If you are looking for all out power, then these motors are not really the best options, but if you are looking for 50t power with more RPM, these may be worth trying.

Another option is the Z2, if you can find one. Same can as the T2, and 35t armature, but with a spiral armature, which makes it much smoother than the T2. I don't know if you can find one, as they are discontinued like the T2... Z2 was my motor of choice for a lot of modified classes. Geared at a 9/53 it has a very smooth application of power, and good amounts of torque throughout the entire RPM range. Chili is 35t as well, basically a T2 with the M1 endbell. More brush tension and larger brush contact area. It has more power than both the Z2 and T2.

If looking for a modified motor for smaller layouts, the 38t ASF Stock motor may be worth trying, or the AD Stock at 39t... Geared in the 10-11t range, its quick but not overpowering.

Out of the 17mm motors, I like the 48t the most... Its a little calmer than the 48t Stock-BB (yellow label) square motor... Next would be the 35t. The 40t seems like it doesn't have as much torque as the 35t, possibly due to a thinner wire diameter. To get maximum effectiveness from the motors, FETs would be recommended. I have used all with cars without FETs and haven't had an issue, but if you do use them on a car without FETs, be sure to use low gearing. In general, low gearing is recommended for the 40t and 35t anyway, as they are RPM motors rather than torque motors like the 48t.

The 33t from PN is never a bad option. Very smooth, and consistent torque throughout the band. Geared with a 9/10t you should have as much power/RPM that you need. On a small track, a 39t may be a better option... But that has considerably more torque, so it may become a handful. 39t was my motor choice for modified F1, where you need a little extra torque due to increased weight of the car and wheel weight which is about double that of the racer. The PN 35t or 37t was ideal for me, but they no longer produce that armature (was sold separately from the can).

The Atomic armature is a little shorter than the PN armature, so you cannot easily compare windings from one company to another. This is why a 35t ATM armature has similar RPM to a 33t PN armature, but the decreased mass of the armature gives it a little more torque and more drag brake effect. Which is why the Z2 with its spiral armature smoothened out the torque that the T2 had. T2 was great for AWD, Z2 for 2wd. It all depends on driving style, if you are looking for overall torque, or torque spread across a band smoothly.

byebye
2014.03.17, 11:15 PM
Awesome info Emu thank you.

Traveler
2014.03.18, 06:48 PM
(http://www.egrracing.com/shop/egr_manual/Motor_Spec_Sheet.pdf) Both are 35 turn, and whether it's right or not, it says they both use the same brushes.

That is a typo in the ATM spec sheet! All the round ATM motors use the same brushes but different brushes from the square cans. MO-028-B for brass or MO-028-S for silver brushes for the round motors. AR-008 or AR-009 for the square motors. They also have the wrong brushes listed for the ASF Spec Motor, so guessing they got these criss-crossed in the spec sheet.

Another option is the Z2, if you can find one. Same can as the T2, and 35t armature, but with a spiral armature, which makes it much smoother than the T2. I don't know if you can find one, as they are discontinued like the T2...

EGR has both in stock for a good price!

The PN 35t or 37t was ideal for me, but they no longer produce that armature (was sold separately from the can).

The arms are still in stock at Kenon. Search for 183735 (35T) or 10MR37 (37T).

byebye
2014.03.18, 08:20 PM
Anyone have any installed pics? I get the feeling this will be larger than a 130 can and limit the mount I could use.

Traveler
2014.03.18, 08:36 PM
Surprisingly the ATM round motors are smaller. There are several older pics in forums here. I'll post links when at a computer.

byebye
2014.03.18, 08:37 PM
Okay. I bought the last two they had.

Traveler
2014.03.18, 08:41 PM
I've used them in a PN 90mm mount which is pretty tight. Here is a picture I found http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35316&highlight=17mm&page=5

EMU
2014.03.19, 01:22 AM
The arms are still in stock at Kenon. Search for 183735 (35T) or 10MR37 (37T).
Ah, thanks for the correction :D

I think that they used to be sold assembled, but that was discontinued...

The Round motors are smaller as stated, also a little lighter...

JesseT
2014.03.19, 02:42 AM
A good discussion once of a while. It seems that I'm looking at this from a slightly different angle and also disagree with some comments.
I switched to running the Atomic 17mm motors for the past fall season from the PN motors, and I've liked them more. In the past nine GT-mod races I've finished worst in second position, and these are still my favorite brushed motors.

The reasons:
1) weight! There is a 5g weight advantage over the PN mods. This means a lot when you can position it at ground level centrally instead. I can carry more corner speed, and I'm less likely to traction roll.
2) Easier to open and close. And open and close and open and so on. The tabs are more clever, whereas the PN tabs break typically on the first opening. This makes it easier to overhaul the motor, solder the windings, cut the collector, etc...
3) Better collector to begin with. These seem to be actually round and don't necessarily need to be cut when new.
4) More efficient. At times we run 24 minute endurance finals, with typical pit stop at halfway. With the 40T orange motor, I've gone as far as 26minutes without pitting with full race speed. Watch my white/green car taking the lead again over Tuomas in the last two minutes with superior speed left in the closing stages. I've typically geared this motor at 24/106.
5) Enough speed to be within 1-2 tenths on the track records set by VE cars. Often in race situation and overtaking just as fast in the end.

-) Yes, a little less power than the PN33.
-) Yes, the VE is the way to go now. No denying that.

byebye
2014.03.19, 06:22 AM
A good discussion once of a while. It seems that I'm looking at this from a slightly different angle and also disagree with some comments.
I switched to running the Atomic 17mm motors for the past fall season from the PN motors, and I've liked them more. In the past nine GT-mod races I've finished worst in second position, and these are still my favorite brushed motors.

The reasons:
1) weight! There is a 5g weight advantage over the PN mods. This means a lot when you can position it at ground level centrally instead. I can carry more corner speed, and I'm less likely to traction roll.
2) Easier to open and close. And open and close and open and so on. The tabs are more clever, whereas the PN tabs break typically on the first opening. This makes it easier to overhaul the motor, solder the windings, cut the collector, etc...
3) Better collector to begin with. These seem to be actually round and don't necessarily need to be cut when new.
4) More efficient. At times we run 24 minute endurance finals, with typical pit stop at halfway. With the 40T orange motor, I've gone as far as 26minutes with full race speed. Watch my white/green car taking the lead again over Tuomas in the last two minutes with superior speed left in the closing stages. i've typically geared this motor at 24/106.
5) Enough speed to be within 1-2 tenths on the track records set by VE cars. Often in race situation and overtaking just as fast in the end.

-) Yes, a little less power than the PN33.
-) Yes, the VE is the way to go now. No denying that.

Thanks for the input JesseT. We are going to start an 86mm class and I may run this motor with an RM mount. We only run 10min. Heats.

Traveler
2014.03.19, 12:58 PM
Ah, thanks for the correction :D

I think that they used to be sold assembled, but that was discontinued...

No problem and you are correct! :)

I have a 10MR37 laying around and this makes me want to try it. Did you run the 37T with neos or standard ferrite mags?

EMU
2014.03.19, 01:40 PM
No problem and you are correct! :)

I have a 10MR37 laying around and this makes me want to try it. Did you run the 37T with neos or standard ferrite mags?

I feel that if a motor has less than 50t, it should be used with Neo Magnets. Ferrite magnets will reduce overall torque, although it will have more top RPM, it will run hotter than with Neo's. I have done some testing with the same armatures in cans with both Neo and Ferrite mags, in general, the Neo mags will have more torque, lower RPM and better runtime than with Ferrite mags.

In some testing that I have done years ago with very powerful motors, (Plasma dash armature in BB can), the motor had more torque and a little higher speed with Neo's than it did with Ferrite mags. Both were tested in Monsters with the same gearing...