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cowboysir
2011.12.18, 11:51 PM
Hi,

Had an excellent day racing on mini tiles today (which is rare for me because of my big track makes me not very agile) but the car i was using suffered from a weird glitch in the steering. I don't think I had it on the car from original so:

1.Can you develop glitching over time with an MR03 asf board?
2. Do you think it might be motor related? It seems to be varied due to throttle input but I might be seeing things...

chad508
2011.12.19, 12:06 AM
all the glitching i have had on the 03 was due to newer motors needing to be broke in better. i have had one older motor cause glitching but i broke it in again and cleaned it well and all was good.

cowboysir
2011.12.19, 12:16 AM
Interesting...I guess i might not be crazy after all.

I'll try pulling the motor and see if the steering is glitch happy without it in.

Any suggestions on a fix to the board if it isn't the motor? I recall things like:

1. Cleaning the pot (with what I can't recall)
2. securing the pot with some CA glue
3. a capacitor on the motor (is that even possible on this gen?)

Can any of these fixes translate to the MR03 platform and has anyone had success with fixes for glitching?

color01
2011.12.19, 02:37 AM
Capacitor across the battery terminals helps mitigate high startup draw from the motor, and sometimes a dirty board will cause glitching too. Try those as well.

cowboysir
2011.12.19, 12:01 PM
Thanks for the info Brian...

A motor sized cap (103/104) good enough for the terminal bridge?

Looks like I've got some work ahead of me. I'll post once i find some solution.;)

Gonzo007
2011.12.19, 01:38 PM
Hi,

Had an excellent day racing on mini tiles today (which is rare for me because of my big track makes me not very agile) but the car i was using suffered from a weird glitch in the steering. I don't think I had it on the car from original so:

1.Can you develop glitching over time with an MR03 asf board?
2. Do you think it might be motor related? It seems to be varied due to throttle input but I might be seeing things...


Glitching, Ah so that is what you are calling it. Seriously that sucks man. I hope you have it solved before the next meet. It was great that you made it down.

I will be watching for you result, in case it happens to me.


Colin

color01
2011.12.19, 03:04 PM
Thanks for the info Brian...

A motor sized cap (103/104) good enough for the terminal bridge?

Looks like I've got some work ahead of me. I'll post once i find some solution.;)
You're going to want a BIG capacitor, like we used to do for Xmods. ;) In case the motor's startup current is high, the cap isn't for smoothing out arcing but rather to supply enough juice to keep the motor happy without starving the servo.

cowboysir
2011.12.29, 06:00 PM
update:

TheSteve and i have been back and forth about the glitching issue because he recently bought an MR03 that has the exact problem mine does. At full throttle i get a brief (but annoying) full lock glitch to the left. I wound up taking apart my chassis only to have the fets on the top of the board go poof. Anyhow, I had to wait for some fets to try a couple scenarios...

During my time off i thought about whether or not the fets might have been a problem to the supply of current to the servo motor or whether i wound up with a faulty coreless motor for the servo assembly....

1. fix fets
2. swap coreless motor
3. test and reassemble and retest.

Once I had it fixed I tested with bare chassis and motor and it seemed to be fixed. I could not replicate the full lock glitch while the bare chassis was on the bench.

Unfortunately, the glitch is still there once the entire car is built.:mad: I'm wondering if there is a strange interference issue due to the PN A-Arm front end but I assume TheSteve has a standard front end on his so it's unlikely the issue.

Next I'll try swapping motors and on to a big cap power bridge"

unearthed name
2011.12.29, 07:01 PM
Uuuuh, have you checked the servo saver assembly

lfisminiz
2011.12.29, 08:53 PM
update:

TheSteve and i have been back and forth about the glitching issue because he recently bought an MR03 that has the exact problem mine does. At full throttle i get a brief (but annoying) full lock glitch to the left. I wound up taking apart my chassis only to have the fets on the top of the board go poof. Anyhow, I had to wait for some fets to try a couple scenarios...

During my time off i thought about whether or not the fets might have been a problem to the supply of current to the servo motor or whether i wound up with a faulty coreless motor for the servo assembly....

1. fix fets
2. swap coreless motor
3. test and reassemble and retest.

Once I had it fixed I tested with bare chassis and motor and it seemed to be fixed. I could not replicate the full lock glitch while the bare chassis was on the bench.

Unfortunately, the glitch is still there once the entire car is built.:mad: I'm wondering if there is a strange interference issue due to the PN A-Arm front end but I assume TheSteve has a standard front end on his so it's unlikely the issue.

Next I'll try swapping motors and on to a big cap power bridge"

Its not the A-arm....i have them on most of my 03s.
Check on fastpaceracing.com website under articles. I seem to remember articles by TJ here on the forum for a fix on that. Might have to go back aways in the articles.

cowboysir
2011.12.29, 09:08 PM
1. Big cap power bridge done: no change other than less frequent full lock glitch.

2. Motor swap test with PN 07 on another car (imagine undoing just the motor leads and having the drive of one car going and the steering of another car working:D) and found no glitch but minor twitch of front wheels (acceptable at this point)

Here is where i found out my issue: I attempted to put an S07 armature into the motor can that was on the car (was an Atomic Standard stockspec) rewired it to the car without powerbridge cap and the steering went insane!:eek: I have no reasoning behind it because the brushes are worked in (had the motor for 6 months) and nowhere down to being replaced. The motor caps seem well connected so....:confused:

Anyhow, i swapped the motor out for a PN 70T from another car and the steering seems fine now...maybe a little vague around center but no big lock glitch.

Thanks for the info lfisminiz...I'm going to look at that now.

cowboysir
2011.12.29, 09:27 PM
Uuuuh, have you checked the servo saver assembly

Be a little more concise with your thoughts on this question please...

How exactly can the servo saver assembly be faulty and cause this issue? Has it happened to you?

Gave that FPR article a once over (I think) and it definitely has part of the steering woes I have...wonder if TJay ever noticed a full lock glitch under power?

for those interested:
http://fastpaceracing.com/content/erratic-steering-movement-idle-fix

I might give that super glue trick a try but with the car all assmebled (for the 4th or 5th time today) I'm not keen on a full teardown yet again.:o

chad508
2011.12.29, 09:36 PM
the small glitching you see when the car is at rest is normal that is the servo constantly trying to center the front end. you can adjust out some with a programmer. but on the track your are always steering in some fashion so it you will never notice it. like i said in my first post the full lock glitching comes from the motor arcing when it pulls alot of amp. if you break the motor in real well it will more than likely go away. the rr 70 turn motor seem to do it real bad as well if not broken in. every time any of mine would do this i would just pull motor and break it in again for 10 15 minutes and it would go away. hope you got it all sorted out.

TheSteve
2011.12.30, 01:33 AM
OK, here are the details on the glitching I was seeing:

Bought a brand new US spec MR03 the other day, while waiting for my tx module to arrive(901SM to mount in a 4PK) I was borrowing a KT18 from a friend. The KT18 had no problem binding, however when I would give it throttle the steering would sometimes glitch - generally hard over to the right when I got near full throttle. Based on some searching I did on this forum I reset the KT-18(which did restore smooth travel and acceleration - so it needed that reset) That however made no difference to the glitching. Another potential problem I read about was the motor needing to be broken in. So I removed it and did a nice water dipped 20 minute break-in. While the motor now runs very smooth it did nothing to help the glitching.
I then removed the electronics board from the MR03 to verify everything looked good, I reset the ICS settings to default, again no difference, still glitched. I had already swapped batteries many times on both the car and KT18 and performed binding 20+ times.

At this point I was wondering if it could possibly be the KT18 as they seem to be of pretty poor quality over all. To test it further I convinced my wife to give me my birthday present early (Subaru Dnano!) We got it for a killer deal at a post Christmas sale(100 bucks brand new from a local store for body and chassis)
I fired it up with the same KT18 - it worked perfect, not a single glitch - just the way it should be.

Then today my friend Colin and myself setup a Mini96 with expansion in the garage and did 1500+ laps each. When he got here I tried his second KT18 - still had the glitching with the MR03(also drove my MRCG 1.1 which rocked!)

The MR03 ran decent but the hard right glitches into the wall suck when you're in a good battle.
Near the end of the day we did one further test. I used Colin's 4PK with 901SM module and gave it a shot - not a single glitch! It was perfect.
One last test - we opened up a brand base model MR03 we got today, bound it with a KT18 and it glitched as well.

So in conclusion - the KT18s suck! Or at a bare minimum there is a software version incompatibility between the KT18s and the MR03's we have. The KT18s are old early models for sure. The US spec MR03 was probably a year old and the new in box base model MR03 was year old stock from a local store.

I can't wait to get my 901SM and jam it in the 4PK to have glitch free operation.
A thank you to Derek for his advice in this matter over the past week and for Colin who gave me a lot goodies that made running today possible!

Best lap was with my MRCG1.1, 5.05 seconds with an Atomic stock running 70% max throttle and foam tires, McLaren F1 body.
Best lap with my MR03 was 5.20 I believe, F430 body, US spec car converted to RM, foam tires. Not bad for a first day out with the MR03 and fighting with glitches every other lap.

Bodom
2011.12.30, 04:13 AM
One day I had severe problem with exactly the same glitching described by all of you on my MR-03 with KT-18..
And I changed nothing on my car. It just suddenly became a glitcher.
The cause was the motor. It was my old Kyosho stock motor.:rolleyes:
As I changed it - the glitches was gone.
Exactly the same motor, that caused glitching on mine MR-03 - works perfectly fine on my friend's MR-02 AM car.

@TheSteve:
One thing to notice - I've heard that 901SM has stronger signal than KT-18 (I think mainly because of the higher voltage power supply).

TheSteve
2011.12.30, 04:44 AM
One thing I forgot to mention before. I removed the motor from my MR03 - with no motor connected or with a 100 ohm resistor in place of the motor the glitches were still happening.

cowboysir
2011.12.30, 12:32 PM
Some interesting thoughts to digest here....

Im going to try binding the car to other tx. I have a couple to choose from in my loaner fleet so maybe TheSteve's idea about source signal may mellow my glitching even more.

cowboysir
2011.12.30, 01:02 PM
four different EX10 type TXs...no change.:(

I really do think it had to do with the motor. I'd like to get some suggestions on motor cleaning and I'll retry the Atomic stock again later.

NoBrainer
2011.12.30, 01:49 PM
the capacitors are in place on the motor?
They er there to reduce noise from the motor to the rest of the electronics

mleemor60
2011.12.30, 02:51 PM
If you are talking about the quiver or shaking from the steering while at rest and powered up then you can very likely fix it by linking the car to the programming device and reduce the steering gain or power slightly. Quite a few of the earliest 03's had Red Bull disease. There are some older threads out there that cover it.

cowboysir
2011.12.30, 04:01 PM
Interesting....

I'll look up those older threads but I don't have an mr03 I.C.S programmer so I'm hoping I can program around it with my TX.

Maybe I might be buying something else to add to the hoard.

mleemor60
2011.12.30, 04:54 PM
I believe the latest EX-10 has the programmer built in. You just need the module for the 03. If I remember correctly it was either Color-0 or TJ that posted on it.

Bodom
2011.12.30, 04:57 PM
I think mleemor60 meant the static glitch. It is caused by the servo motor constantly trying to center the servo. This can be fixed with the ICS programmer.
The glitch that is questioned here happens when the motor is running.
With mine 03 - this happens usually at full throttle.
I made an experiment and here is the result:
With KT-18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tAcolBv-PE)
With Helios (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QTfSTf1TYE)

You can see the glitch at both videos, but with the Helios it rarely happens. Actually this is my second video with the Helios. On the first video that I shot with the Helios - there was no glitching. The car is on 17mm Blue-can Atomic motor.
When I had problems with the stock motor - the glitch happened at least once every time I pull the throttle (At that time I didn't have Helios).
In my opinion my car is fine now, because I don't run it at full throttle for that long.

mleemor60
2011.12.30, 05:06 PM
That is what I get for not reading back far enough. We went through that sort of thing with a particular motor. It only happened until the brushes seated and then went away. It was maddening though until then. It happened in a certain RPM range as if it might have been brush bounce.

cowboysir
2011.12.30, 05:10 PM
With three Helios and a JR Z1 I doubt I have the programming fully integrated into the TX. I guess the Euros is the one with it....

Now that i have my 5th module (thanks Landon) I can get my 3PK back into mini-z service and try using that TX with this particular MR03.

I do have the minor shakes (uncorrected atm) but I believe I've fixed the full lock glitch by switching motors to a PN 70T. Once I clean the Atomic stock i have i'll give it another go and see if the issue was a dirty motor.

TheSteve has his 'full lock" glitch still so I'm trying to keep efforts posted here so we can fix his problem. Hopefully he'll post and tell which motor he had installed...

motor causing problems at a certain rpm? That's pretty much it exactly...

TheSteve
2011.12.30, 07:06 PM
My MR03 was 100% stock - so whatever the stock Kyosho motor is. Anyways, I had the glitching with the motor completely disconnected from the car. So that 100% rules out the motor being part of the problem.

Anyway, my glitching is gone for now, my RF-901SM module arrived today and I mounted it into my 4PK, works great with my MR03 and my Dnano. I really think the glitching is some of software incompatibility between the KT18's my friend Colin has and the MR03 board.

See the transmitter section for a few details of my install which I believe is the best/easiest install yet for the 4PK.

Edit - Cowboy if you want a super cheap MR03 ICS interface you can buy a suitable USB to TTL interface off ebay for 2.87 USD shipped.
Just add two diodes and the plug to connect to an MR03 and you're good to go. This interface will work with any car that supports ICS.

color01
2011.12.30, 09:38 PM
I believe the latest EX-10 has the programmer built in. You just need the module for the 03. If I remember correctly it was either Color-0 or TJ that posted on it.
Nope, the Eurus has a servo tester function but no direct ICS programming as far as I can tell (that would've been nice...). No mention of Mini-Z ICS in the manual either.

The only thing I really addressed when I first got my 03 was the static-on-the-bench jitters that the first batch of cars was prone to. My car still has Red Bull Syndrome the moment I turn it on with good batteries -- I need to physically suppress it with a finger or wait about 2 seconds. I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing any full-lock glitching though... I have heard of the motor being dirty as an issue and will look at my own motor tonight, as my steering sometimes feels like it's glitching at Inside Line.

I wonder if the motor caps are capable of causing any problems themselves -- I haven't had any since I got this 03, and I've run the PN 70, 80, and 33t primarily with not much issue till recently.

TheSteve
2012.01.14, 10:43 PM
A little more follow-up, I tried the KT18s with an MA-015 tiki tiki AWD car, it also glitched. No problem with the RF901SM module. So in my case the glitching was most certainly from the KT18s(yet the dnano never glitches with it!)

mikedw
2012.01.24, 12:47 PM
I have my buddies MR03 that twitches just like the video that Bodom posted. The car was fine for months then it started the hard twitch. It had an Atomic USA motor from day 1 then it started, put a new Reflex 70T it was there, broke the motor in, still there, broke it in again, problem persists. I usually don't bother breaking in motors at all. I've tried multiple motors, Speedy 05 and 07, Kyosho stock, X-speed, Atomic stock and the two above, same problem with all. These motors all work fine without glitch in another MR03.
I've tried a Z1, ex5 and kt18 tx, it doesn't make a difference.
I believe the motor interference is part of the problem but, I think it is a weakness on the board too. It happens at any throttle speed and you can hear the motor RPM rev up as it happens.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Cheers

I have a video.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/mikedw/th_MOV02038.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/mikedw/?action=view&current=MOV02038.mp4)

JuniorWKR
2012.01.24, 12:56 PM
try changing the frequency on the board... if its on low try med or high...

mikedw
2012.01.24, 01:00 PM
Thanks. I'm guessing that's a ICS setting. Don't have a way to change it.

JuniorWKR
2012.01.24, 01:10 PM
yes thats what im refering too...

I have noticed lately with the hand wound motors i get from my sponsors and the new atomic motors that they are requiring a different frequency then the motors of old... I guess it has something to do with the winding process...

for example a stock pn 50t motor off the shelf i would run using a low freq... i would then send it out to my motor sponsor and he would rewind it by hand and balance it for me... using the same wire and the same amount of turns he would use anywhere from 10 to 15 percent less wire then stock.. when i would get the motor back it was a dog on the low freq... i would chnage it to mid or high and it then would be better then original...

mikedw
2012.01.24, 01:22 PM
Thanks. I'll have to set myself up with the ability to change the settings ASAP.
The problem just appeared halfway through a race day without any set up changes, very odd. Since it happens with any motor I try, he'll have to try a new board for now. Cheers

chris b
2012.05.29, 06:50 PM
Hi, Did any one get to the bottom of this problem? As my 03 is doing the same thing:mad:

It is doing exactly the same as described by mikedw, (as in it is not just at full throttle), I have changed motors with no success, my next option is to change the board (but I am reluctant at a cost of 95 if this is not the cure)

Just as a side issue if this has any bearing on anything my 03 seems to surge a great deal more than other 03's

Thanks

mikedw
2012.05.29, 09:16 PM
We ended up trying enough motors to find ones that it didn't happen to so badly and then did some really excessive break-ins on those ones. Eventually got everyone running. Never got around to trying ICS settings. We have one car that ran all the motors no problem no glitch. Weird!
Cheers

twinkie
2012.05.29, 10:30 PM
whenever I get the "glitch" I just re-dip my motor in a cleaning solution like denatured alcohol or acetone, oil the bushing or bearing and it goes away for me. For my situation I think I just get crap inside the can, rcp, tire wear, oil from the damper. I dip my motor about once a week to keep it clean. Another one of our club members was glitching, I dipped his motor and the problem went away. But again there is no "hard" evidence, its just some voodoo that has been working for me.

chris b
2012.06.12, 04:52 PM
I ran my car on the weekend (on the pn qualifier track) using a pn speedy awd mod motor. Then car didn't glitch once. As soon as I put a stock motor back in the glitching returned :eek:.
Now the two conclusions I can come up with is:
1. The stock motors are rubbish.
2. The board has an issue with it causing it to be sensitive to glitching motors (sending motor spikes to the servo motor)
My next move is to try the worst stock motor is another car to see if it glitches.
Hopefully this should prove theory 1 or 2 :)

targetingxmod
2012.08.17, 09:38 AM
Well, my mr03 had the same problem has the videos! I use the kt18 tx only.

but in my case with kyosho stock motor several times runing the servo glitch to one side and stoped the motor of the car!! Strange. Resolve this only with a new motor! Work fine!

As for the glithc's on kt18... over time it will become loose! I tried and tried and find a solution that word so well!

Removed the steering rims of the tx... and screwed it again with major force...not tribal force because of fear of damage plastic, but it made my kt18 like new. No strange glitches anymore.

And you can do a test! With the kt18 on one hand and the car on the table... bounce the kt18 gently... if steering moves alone needs a screw squezze!!

So it worked for me. I think we can put an bearing on the steering trimming the plastic with rimmers, but i am afraid of that...
saw several threads on doing that to kt200, kt201, or gtb3b from flysky... :)
I think mleemor60 meant the static glitch. It is caused by the servo motor constantly trying to center the servo. This can be fixed with the ICS programmer.
The glitch that is questioned here happens when the motor is running.
With mine 03 - this happens usually at full throttle.
I made an experiment and here is the result:
With KT-18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tAcolBv-PE)
With Helios (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QTfSTf1TYE)

You can see the glitch at both videos, but with the Helios it rarely happens. Actually this is my second video with the Helios. On the first video that I shot with the Helios - there was no glitching. The car is on 17mm Blue-can Atomic motor.
When I had problems with the stock motor - the glitch happened at least once every time I pull the throttle (At that time I didn't have Helios).
In my opinion my car is fine now, because I don't run it at full throttle for that long.