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View Full Version : PN Racing Mini-Z 2WD Multi Offset Front Axle Hub


PNracing
2012.01.26, 01:46 PM
30 Jan release!

Features
-3mm over size bearing for greater bearing stiffness.
-Axel Hub clamps both bearing inner races tight against axle to eliminate free play between bearing inner race and axle.
-Majority of the front wheel free play will be eliminated with use of over size 3mm bearing and by clamping of bearing inner races.
-Bearing spacer shims included to accommodate different bearing spacing on most rims.
-Wheel Offset Spacers to increase wheel offset. Increase offset by 0, 0. 5 or 1 mm for fine offset adjustments.

Spec
Use for Mini-Z
MR01, MR02, MR03, F1. all Mini-Z 2WD front knuckles.

Packing Includes
2 x Axle Hub
2 x Bearing Spacer (Orange)
2 x 0.5mm Wheel Offset Spacer (Blue)
4 x 3mmx6mmx2.5mm Ball Bearing
4 x M3 0.2mm Shims (700502)

Requirements
4.5mm Lock Nut Driver
M3 x 0.2mm shims may be need more, depends on difference brand of the wheel (700502)

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32530&stc=1&d=1327603631
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32531&stc=1&d=1327603413
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32532&stc=1&d=1327603413
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32533&stc=1&d=1327603413
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32534&stc=1&d=1327603413

Chicken Little
2012.01.26, 02:51 PM
This is wonderful! I can't wait to try it out!

imxlr8ed
2012.01.26, 04:28 PM
Too cool ! Approximate price?

Is there anything on a MiniZ that can't be modified more than 3 ways?... jeez! ;)

PNracing
2012.01.26, 04:46 PM
Too cool ! Approximate price?

Is there anything on a MiniZ that can't be modified more than 3 ways?... jeez! ;)

Retail Price US$12.88

hrdrvr
2012.01.26, 04:57 PM
^ Hmm, It showed 16.88 when I looked at it. Is there going to be revised pricing different from what is shown on kenon now?

PNracing
2012.01.26, 05:04 PM
^ Hmm, It showed 16.88 when I looked at it. Is there going to be revised pricing different from what is shown on kenon now?

Landon, yes I check my web we posted is 16.88, now we want to turn down the price 12.88 more customer will be love it.

hrdrvr
2012.01.26, 05:31 PM
Awesome good deal. Glad I waited a couple of minutes before ordering :D Order placed now! Have a couple of customers who will be happy to get theirs cheaper than I told them!

PNracing
2012.01.26, 05:58 PM
Awesome good deal. Glad I waited a couple of minutes before ordering :D Order placed now! Have a couple of customers who will be happy to get theirs cheaper than I told them!

Your order shipped out!!!

hrdrvr
2012.01.26, 06:26 PM
You guys are the bomb! :D 1 hour from order time to shipped time.

pomme de terre
2012.01.26, 06:34 PM
Wow this seems like a great part for getting rid of the slop we have in our front wheels, without worrying about tightening the nut too hard... at a good price too since it replaces both the nuts and the front bearings.

Looking forward to it :)

danny250r
2012.01.26, 06:49 PM
Awesome good deal. Glad I waited a couple of minutes before ordering :D Order placed now! Have a couple of customers who will be happy to get theirs cheaper than I told them!

are they on kenon site ??

hrdrvr
2012.01.26, 06:53 PM
Sorry for posting that info. They are available for dealers to order, so we can have them in stock for release.

lfisminiz
2012.01.26, 07:39 PM
WOW! 3 hot parts in the last week....AWESOME!:)

d1nzfe
2012.01.26, 08:57 PM
Cant wait to try them out
:D

tudor_47
2012.01.27, 02:15 AM
This will go on my P28V2. Hopefully it will make the front end more stable.

Yes they fit the P28 too.

color01
2012.01.28, 05:04 PM
You guys will want to have some threadlock handy -- there's no nylon locking ring on the end so the hub holds on to the axle like a metal screw into a metal motor mount. ;) I got to try it out yesterday and it's exactly as precise as the FPR spacers of old, but now with offset adjustment built in too. I can finally run +2.5N on PN +2N wheels on the reverse-kingpin front end!

ucdinh
2012.01.30, 04:53 PM
Awesome job on the Axle hub, I tried these out and just to test I cranked down on the nut and still spins freely with no binding issues. And it seems very solid. Good Job PN. The guys at the shop will be happy to see this new part, as we no longer make the FPR spacers.

chad508
2012.01.31, 08:33 PM
ok i have been playing with these for 2 hours and no luck. i have tried every brand of wheel in every combo of shims, and still cant clamp it down all the way and have smooth rotation. anyone have any ideas. i prefer to use the atomic 19mm wheels if anyone has come up with a workable combo let me know

herman
2012.01.31, 09:54 PM
what knuckles are you using? i'm not sure, but are they supposed to work with all types of knuckes? or just pn knuckles exclusively?

chad508
2012.01.31, 10:09 PM
i tried the pn knuckles first with no luck then i tried the stock plastic and reflex knuckles same out come. i did put in some other bearings and it helped but im just not getting the same free spin i do with the stock size bearings. maybe i just feel i need the wheel to spin for 30 seconds to be free but i dont?

PNracing
2012.02.01, 12:22 AM
i tried the pn knuckles first with no luck then i tried the stock plastic and reflex knuckles same out come. i did put in some other bearings and it helped but im just not getting the same free spin i do with the stock size bearings. maybe i just feel i need the wheel to spin for 30 seconds to be free but i dont?

Chad you can try put more shim in between the ball bearing, because all he wheel size is not prefect, so we make 0.9mm Spacer + 0.2mm shim, in my car I put spacer and 4 shims, you can use M3 ball diff shaft shim.

chad508
2012.02.01, 10:06 AM
im going to give it another shot today. i tried both orange shims in one side and even that wasnt enough. i could tell that i had enough shims because i could get the bearing all the way in the wheel. should i be getting the same free spin you get with the old setup and the wheel nut not tightened all the way? i feel the wheels are not binding but there only make a few rotations before coming to a stop.

yasuji
2012.02.01, 10:27 AM
im going to give it another shot today. i tried both orange shims in one side and even that wasnt enough. i could tell that i had enough shims because i could get the bearing all the way in the wheel. should i be getting the same free spin you get with the old setup and the wheel nut not tightened all the way? i feel the wheels are not binding but there only make a few rotations before coming to a stop.

on my set up i get just as much free spin as the std bearings..... hmmmmm:rolleyes:

PNracing
2012.02.01, 10:43 AM
im going to give it another shot today. i tried both orange shims in one side and even that wasnt enough. i could tell that i had enough shims because i could get the bearing all the way in the wheel. should i be getting the same free spin you get with the old setup and the wheel nut not tightened all the way? i feel the wheels are not binding but there only make a few rotations before coming to a stop.

Did you clean the ball bearing, because all new ball bearing out of factory, they put a lot grease inside make it not easy to stain, use motor cleaner to clean it will be better.

chad508
2012.02.01, 11:03 AM
yes i did clean the bearings and ended up using another set of extremly good bearings. im sure its something im doing with the spacers but its so simple i just dont see where im screwing up.

PNracing
2012.02.01, 04:30 PM
yes i did clean the bearings and ended up using another set of extremly good bearings. im sure its something im doing with the spacers but its so simple i just dont see where im screwing up.

OK, I send you another set, we test it before make sure is ok. PM me your address.

arch2b
2012.02.01, 05:51 PM
when will these go up on the site?

arch2b
2012.02.01, 07:24 PM
feel stupid but searching by name or part number doesn't turn up anything and no where to be found in new arrive pages. anyone have a link?

arch2b
2012.02.01, 08:55 PM
the link doesn't work for me. takes me to a page saying google couldn't find page

funny it works from the email notice with the following results

Your search for "MR3057" returned the following results...

0 Records Found.
Please try a different Search (enter 3 or more characters).

chad508
2012.02.01, 10:31 PM
thanks for the offer philip. i tried to send you a pm but your box is full. i think we found a solution. i will send you an email with our findings

PNracing
2012.02.02, 12:37 AM
the link doesn't work for me. takes me to a page saying google couldn't find page

funny it works from the email notice with the following results

Your search for "MR3057" returned the following results...

0 Records Found.
Please try a different Search (enter 3 or more characters).

Raymond, the link is work now, we forget open for public link.

http://www.kenonhobby.com/search.asp?keyword=MR3057&search.x=27&search.y=9

bermbuster
2012.02.02, 12:43 AM
I got mine today at ILR....:cool:

yasuji
2012.02.02, 01:25 AM
i had a customer come in today with stock knuckles and a**m*c 19mm wheela and it was the same issue... i looked at it and found that if u put the silver shim on each side of the orange spacer it drags..... but if i put both shims on one side of the spacer it spun free!
on his car i set it (from outside to in) bearing spacer shim shim bearing and all was great!:D
thanks for the offer philip. i tried to send you a pm but your box is full. i think we found a solution. i will send you an email with our findings

hrdrvr
2012.02.02, 11:12 AM
^ Grant, I tried every shim orientation possible, and also tried Kyosho, ATM, and PN wheels. The issue is not with the shim placement, but with the length of the hub. You can see from this picture (taken from PN's original post), that the hub does not make it past the inside bearing.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32534&stc=1&d=1327603413

This means if you tighten the whole assembly down that the race on the inside bearing gets binded up against the knuckle, or the blue shim. It's not like loosening a nut on a typical axle either. This hub has the ability to spin which makes it tighten itself back up, or loosen itself until it falls off the axle (pending which side of the car it is on).

What I found to combat this was to use a 2mm bearing in the outside of the wheel. It lets the hub go in further and actually contact the blue shim or knuckle. I still used the orange shim in between the bearings, and used the silver shims to take up the play, so I ended up with a tight fit, and free spinning wheels.

IMO, the kit should come with a 2mm bearing for each side, or the hub should be .5mm longer.


Here is a shot with it installed into a PN wheel. You can see the hub doesn't make it out to the edge of the inner bearing race, and this is only with the orange shim between the bearings...no additional silver shims.
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/MBMZR/2012-02-01_15-31-27_338.jpg

yasuji
2012.02.02, 11:34 AM
^ Grant, I tried every shim orientation possible, and also tried Kyosho, ATM, and PN wheels. The issue is not with the shim placement, but with the length of the hub. You can see from this picture (taken from PN's original post), that the hub does not make it past the inside bearing.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32534&stc=1&d=1327603413

This means if you tighten the whole assembly down that the race on the inside bearing gets binded up against the knuckle, or the blue shim. It's not like loosening a nut on a typical axle either. This hub has the ability to spin which makes it tighten itself back up, or loosen itself until it falls off the axle (pending which side of the car it is on).

What I found to combat this was to use a 2mm bearing in the outside of the wheel. It lets the hub go in further and actually contact the blue shim or knuckle. I still used the orange shim in between the bearings, and used the silver shims to take up the play, so I ended up with a tight fit, and free spinning wheels.

IMO, the kit should come with a 2mm bearing for each side, or the hub should be .5mm longer.


Here is a shot with it installed into a PN wheel. You can see the hub doesn't make it out to the edge of the inner bearing race, and this is only with the orange shim between the bearings...no additional silver shims.
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv77/MBMZR/2012-02-01_15-31-27_338.jpg

if the inner hub was longer than the bearing s then you will get slop.... the idea for this is similar to a skateboard/Rollerblade wheel....there are many reasons that a wheel may bind up... but the major reason is that the inner race of the bearing is being loaded toward the center this is the reason for the spacing in the ctr.... the inner hub is just the carrier for the shims!

hrdrvr
2012.02.02, 11:39 AM
Then how do you keep the hub on the axle? I cannot tighten it down without binding the inside bearing.

I used the shims to take up the slop that the thinner bearing created, and ended up with no noticeable slop, and a much more free set up than how it was when I followed the directions. Also, with my solution, it worked with any wheel. Different amounts of shims may be necessary, but the end operation was much better.

yasuji
2012.02.02, 11:44 AM
also the shims in the ctr are not intended to move the bearings out... it is to stop the inner race from moving in and loading up upon tightening
however i can see what u r saying ... a longer inner hub could make it a little more simple as it would bottom out the hub rather than the bearing which in turn makes the inner spacer useless

yasuji
2012.02.02, 11:51 AM
Then how do you keep the hub on the axle? I cannot tighten it down without binding the inside bearing.

I used the shims to take up the slop that the thinner bearing created, and ended up with no noticeable slop, and a much more free set up than how it was when I followed the directions. Also, with my solution, it worked with any wheel. Different amounts of shims may be necessary, but the end operation was much better.

like i said in my post above.... with the customer car... it is the shim location....
the idea is to make the bearing work how it is intended.. with the inner race locked in to place and the bearing and outer race spinning freely upon the inner race
if the inner race is spinning on the hub/shaft then it is adding friction
having the inner hub bottom out to the knuchle is not a bad idea... but instead of shimming the inner part of the bearing you would be shimming the outside of the outer bearing to adjust slop
however the inner race would still be able to spin on the hub making this set up as in efficient as the stk set up

color01
2012.02.02, 12:12 PM
In the older crush washer application (the FPR spacers), over-tightening the wheel nut also forced the inside wheel bearing against the knuckle flange. The length of the PN hub doesn't really matter. What does matter is the fact that the main crush washer is made from aluminum instead of steel, and not very much of it for that matter: it's easy to truly "crush" the poor thing, so the more times you crank down on the PN hub-nut, the flatter the crush washer will become. I already need to use one 0.2mm shim in addition to the orange crush washer to space out PN Delrin (and by extension, Kyosho & Square) rims.

To avoid over-crushing, just threadlock the axle. Put the hub on just snugly and let the threadlock do the hard work. :)

In other news, the stock bearings this hub comes with are filled with a LOT more grease than I expected. I was worrying quite a bit before and checking obsessively for binding, when it turns out that all I had to do to free up the bearings was to dry them out. :rolleyes:

hrdrvr
2012.02.02, 01:37 PM
I understand the point of the "crush" washer as Brian calls it, and the shims between the bearings. My point was that there are shims that can be used and are provided with the kit that can take up the slop.

IMO, The proper install method would be to add shims between the bearings to get the desired action of bearing and wheel, then add shims to the outside of the outer bearing if there is a need to take up additional slop from the narrow bearing (or longer hub if that ever comes in the future). The spacer used should be like the ones provided and only press against the inner race. Then all you do is clamp everything down tight, and you get a bind free, slop free set up. If you want to add .5 or 1mm of offset, loosen it, take it off, drop one or two blue spacers behind it, then tighten it all the way again.

The way it is designed you still need to tighten it by feel, and hope you leave enough space without too much, then you need to add something (thread locker) to the mix to keep the hub from falling off. When I first saw this product my thought was that we wouldn't be playing this whole "tighten up all the way, okay loosen it until it's free, now check for slop, and re-tighten til the slop is gone, then check to make sure it's free again". I guess the product wasn't intended to eliminate this, but with a thinner outer bearing it can made to work like this, which IMO, makes it a much better product.

yasuji
2012.02.02, 09:41 PM
I understand the point of the "crush" washer as Brian calls it, and the shims between the bearings. My point was that there are shims that can be used and are provided with the kit that can take up the slop.

IMO, The proper install method would be to add shims between the bearings to get the desired action of bearing and wheel, then add shims to the outside of the outer bearing if there is a need to take up additional slop from the narrow bearing (or longer hub if that ever comes in the future). The spacer used should be like the ones provided and only press against the inner race. Then all you do is clamp everything down tight, and you get a bind free, slop free set up. If you want to add .5 or 1mm of offset, loosen it, take it off, drop one or two blue spacers behind it, then tighten it all the way again.

The way it is designed you still need to tighten it by feel, and hope you leave enough space without too much, then you need to add something (thread locker) to the mix to keep the hub from falling off. When I first saw this product my thought was that we wouldn't be playing this whole "tighten up all the way, okay loosen it until it's free, now check for slop, and re-tighten til the slop is gone, then check to make sure it's free again". I guess the product wasn't intended to eliminate this, but with a thinner outer bearing it can made to work like this, which IMO, makes it a much better product.

it is intended that was just the same as the fpr set up was...there is no need for the inner hub to contact the knuckle ... i crank down on my set without any binding... and the customer set i did yesterday on stock plastic knuckles i cranked down on as well
a good way to test this is to assemble it without the wheel and see what is binding
i have not had any issues with this however i only use this in PN delrin +3 wheels on PN AA arm.for me i do not ever use locktite not even on motorcycles... i just tighten them down just like i would a t plate screw:D

d1nzfe
2012.02.03, 01:07 PM
bad 1st impression on this one.
Blinds when tighten.
Need threadlock when wheels spin free.
:mad:
I hope there IS solution to this.

datsunking
2012.02.09, 11:46 AM
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/430069_10150603603808970_678363969_9449466_8285372 _n.jpg

Tried to fix on my MR-02 A-arm but it just can't work.... HELP!!!!!!!!! using kyosho +2.5 rim

yasuji
2012.02.09, 12:35 PM
Tried to fix on my MR-02 A-arm but it just can't work.... HELP!!!!!!!!! using kyosho +2.5 rim
this has worked well for me on pn wheels!:)
1)degrease the bearings making sure they spin freely
2) install the outer bearing in to the wheel
3)insert the hub in to the outer bearing
4)install the orange main shim
5) some of the silver shims are tapered make sure the 2 silver shims are facing the same direction ie ((
6 install inner bearing
installed it should look like this:
(inner to outer){}(([]{}
bearing shim shim spacer bearing

datsunking
2012.02.09, 07:51 PM
this has worked well for me on pn wheels!:)
1)degrease the bearings making sure they spin freely
2) install the outer bearing in to the wheel
3)insert the hub in to the outer bearing
4)install the orange main shim
5) some of the silver shims are tapered make sure the 2 silver shims are facing the same direction ie ((
6 install inner bearing
installed it should look like this:
(inner to outer){}(([]{}
bearing shim shim spacer bearing


Sorry, i really don't understand what u meant. Do you have pictures or symbols to represent each different part n the sequence to install it?

This hub is taking me forever to install....

color01
2012.02.09, 08:07 PM
[bearing][shim][shim][Orange spacer][bearing]


Is the way it goes. Grant says that you should make sure the two shims are facing the same way -- from the factory, the steel shims are a little concave in one direction, and you should match up the concave sides to make the stack of shims as solid as possible. If you don't, then when you tighten the hub, the shim stack can compress (it's like a bunch of cone springs at this point), and you will move the inner races of the bearings relative to the outer races, thus binding up the bearing.

datsunking
2012.02.09, 08:13 PM
[bearing][shim][shim][Orange spacer][bearing]


Is the way it goes. Grant says that you should make sure the two shims are facing the same way -- from the factory, the steel shims are a little concave in one direction, and you should match up the concave sides to make the stack of shims as solid as possible. If you don't, then when you tighten the hub, the shim stack can compress (it's like a bunch of cone springs at this point), and you will move the inner races of the bearings relative to the outer races, thus binding up the bearing.

where is the symbol for the outer wheel n inner wheel? Sorry very noob with this item...

hrdrvr
2012.02.09, 11:27 PM
where is the symbol for the outer wheel n inner wheel? Sorry very noob with this item...



[bearing][shim][shim][Orange spacer][bearing]



This is within the wheel, mounted onto the hub.

datsunking
2012.02.09, 11:40 PM
Tried countless times n methods man!!!! HELP!!!!

hrdrvr
2012.02.10, 12:08 AM
I used and AWD bearing for the outside bearing, and added one silver shim to the outside of that. The hub tightens down all the way to the knuckle and the wheels spin free (as long as you have the silver shims placed correctly, and the bearings spin before going in).

blt456
2012.02.10, 01:26 AM
Tried countless times n methods man!!!! HELP!!!!

Why don't you look at the first post in this thread? The second picture is exactly what you are looking for...

datsunking
2012.02.10, 03:29 AM
Why don't you look at the first post in this thread? The second picture is exactly what you are looking for...

Tried that many times...

gizmatron
2013.01.12, 12:23 PM
I have a small problem with this too.. works fine on my alu wheels with just the orange spacer. however with all my plastic grp wheels it needs the silver shims.. first off my set only came with 1 shim not 4 which shouldn't be a problem as I have a pack of the 3mmx0.2 shims anyway, but the shims have a larger OD than the orange shim and jam in the wheel centerhole..obviously this locks up the whole assembly..do I drill out the wheels a fraction? or are the shims supplied with the axle assembly smaller than the std pn 0.2mm shims. doesn't look like it to me..