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LED
2012.02.19, 11:13 AM
Hi all

After 3.5 years in mini-z I'm ready for something new.
I want a drifter.
So i got some questions beacause I'm totaly new with AWD cars.
I already did a search here but didnt come up with alot of answers. Feel free to link to any threads.

So my questions.

1) Can you drift on a decent level with a stock AWD car, besides the tires
2) How important is tuning? Thinking of stuff like toe in, caster, ...
3) Would you recommend the gyro or not. I know in the beginning a gyro will help alot, but it feels like cheating :p
4) How important are the bodys? Is it like the racers that it can make alot of difference or is it just looks? If it does have an impact, wich ones are best?
5) Are there any parts that you would recommend to change as soon as I get a car and why.
6) Does a mini cooper S fit on the AWD chassis?
As I understand it AWD does not support 98 mm?
7) The tiki tiki mode on chassis 30530can be turned off so you have full power all the time?
8) Does every 2.4 chassis support the gyro, or only the tiki tiki mode one?

All these questions are based for drifting only. And just for fun. I do not intend to make the best drifter out there, I just want a controlable affortable car.

Thank you

civilian
2012.02.19, 11:53 AM
just buy a stock awd, change the tyre and you're good to go.

to make it easier lock both the diff.

the rest is depends on driver's hands.

but that just me according to my experience buying useless option parts for drifting.

one day when I think I had enuff, I put back the stock part and... I can drift!

marc
2012.02.19, 12:09 PM
Or just buy the newer ones with the AE86 Toyota Trueno bodies on them as I think they are already equipped for drifting.

LED
2012.02.19, 01:23 PM
Thx for the reply so far.
Added an aditional question.
Does the AWd support a mini cooper S body, and as I understand it it does not support 98mm?

One more question. The tiki tiki mode on chassis 30530can be turned off so you have full power all the time?

gctkaz
2012.02.19, 03:06 PM
I am just a newbie but my first Mini-Z 2 months ago was a Formula D setup with Kyosho drift tires out of the box. It was expensive, $200+ even without the radio, but you probably have one already.

Should be good to go with just that, but I would suggest 3 to 7 upgrades.

1. Alloy motor mount set
2. Alloy motor cover
3. Alloy pinion gear set

These three above are important (I would say essential) because the motor gets HOT when drifting and these can let you drive for longer before you need to take a break to cool down, and your breaks can be shorter too.

The next are optional but nice to have, will help with handling/durability a bit.

4. Ball bearings
5. Steel or aluminum swing shafts
6. At least a ball diff for rear
7. Harder springs

Anything else is just bling! That said, I bought it anyway :o

98mm can be done but you need an aftermarket extension kit with spur gears.

ChugaLugin
2012.02.20, 02:17 AM
Honestly, I just recently started drifting as well and so I can say that I tuned a couple cars to my liking.

I recently got a fresh new car (In mind, I have a fully upped AWD before this car), bone stock, and alls you REALLY need is the tires, an adjustable diff in the rear, springs to slam your chassis (kinda optional IMO), bearings for smoothness, a punchier motor, and some variations of rear toe bars to adjust your drift angle and stability.

When I first started, all I had was pretty much what I stated above, still had the stock diff in the front and I caught on from there.

Once I slapped in another adjustable diff in the front, everything just set in place. Learning to drift with what you originally had to start with only gets better once you get the remaining hop ups (the ones that you actually need).

Good luck!

BTW: if you're drifting on hard surfaces I recommend a one way in the diff in the rear and a spool in the front. If you're drifting RCP like myself, then adjustable diffs.

ChugaLugin
2012.02.20, 02:25 AM
Thx for the reply so far.
Added an aditional question.
Does the AWd support a mini cooper S body, and as I understand it it does not support 98mm?

One more question. The tiki tiki mode on chassis 30530can be turned off so you have full power all the time?


AWD does support 98mm. You would need the extension blocks which I believe PN makes. I could be wrong about the maker, but I know they make extensions for the wheelbase.

As for the tiki, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I know that you can program it so that you can punch it with the press of a button, but idk about having it on for the entirety of a run.

herman
2012.02.20, 02:29 AM
hi...

here are some of my answers in orange

So i got some questions beacause I'm totaly new with AWD cars.
I already did a search here but didnt come up with alot of answers. Feel free to link to any threads.

So my questions.

1) Can you drift on a decent level with a stock AWD car, besides the tires
yes

2) How important is tuning? Thinking of stuff like toe in, caster, ...
if you are looking for the cheapest drifting set up... it doesn't matter... (well to me at least)

3) Would you recommend the gyro or not. I know in the beginning a gyro will help alot, but it feels like cheating
again if you are looking for the cheapest drifting set up... i would not recommend it... for me the cheaper the better...

4) How important are the bodys? Is it like the racers that it can make alot of difference or is it just looks? If it does have an impact, wich ones are best?
for me drifting is all about getting sideways and looking good... personally i don't think the body style makes a difference in terms of drifting... some other drivers feel otherwise... i can't really say which is the best... but i have tried the skyline r34 on the long setting 94mm, and ae86 on the 90mm setting... i felt that i could control the longer setting (94mm) better than the 90mm...

5) Are there any parts that you would recommend to change as soon as I get a car and why.
for the cheapest set up... just the tires... want to spend more? go for bearings... and that's it

6) Does a mini cooper S fit on the AWD chassis?As I understand it AWD does not support 98 mm?
yes, i would believe so... mini cooper is a 90mm and the awd does support the 90mm wheelbase... with an additional parts, you could use 98mm bodies...

7) The tiki tiki mode on chassis 30530can be turned off so you have full power all the time?
yes i believe so, i don't have a tiki tiki awd, but do have a tikitiki 03 and you can turn it on/off

8) Does every 2.4 chassis support the gyro, or only the tiki tiki mode one?
i actually got the first 2.4ghz asf awd version... and i don't believe it supports the gyro... however i have seen some guys attach a gyro on it and hold it down with double sided tape... the newer versions, support the gyro and have a specific place for you to install it... i think the newer tiki-tiki mode supports the gyro as well...


All these questions are based for drifting only. And just for fun. I do not intend to make the best drifter out there, I just want a controlable affortable car.
since i am taking it as the cheapest drifter... i kept it at that... just drift tires, and bearings... which is what i use on mine... i did try a stronger motor... but after a while put back the stock motor... the stronger motor was just er too strong... hehehe... couldn't control it as much, compared to the stock motor that is...


Thank you
you're welcome hope this helps

wildthing
2012.02.20, 06:37 AM
Actually if there is a way to modify the camber, the drift will be easier. :)

LED
2012.02.27, 04:12 PM
Thanks for the answers guys but I'm still pretty lost in all of it :)

I can see a couple of diffrent chassis going around (I have to look at kyosho.de beacause whats not on there is not deliverable to me).
So I have what I thinks is a standard chassis.
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=24146&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu#
Then there is the tikitiki one
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=24083&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu#

and then there is the DWS
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=22029&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu#

and a bunch of autoscaled ones. For instance
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=23006&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu

Now what I cannot figure is wich of the above chassis is used for the autoscale.
If its the standard chassis, then why the hell is it 80€ more expensive??
If its any of the others then why is there practicly no price difference?

Any insight on this would be very much appreciated.
I'm just a little scared of buying the wrong car :P

Thx

thestug
2012.02.27, 06:03 PM
Thanks for the answers guys but I'm still pretty lost in all of it :)

I can see a couple of diffrent chassis going around (I have to look at kyosho.de beacause whats not on there is not deliverable to me).
So I have what I thinks is a standard chassis.
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=24146&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu#
Then there is the tikitiki one
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=24083&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu#

and then there is the DWS
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=22029&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu#

and a bunch of autoscaled ones. For instance
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=23006&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu

Now what I cannot figure is wich of the above chassis is used for the autoscale.
If its the standard chassis, then why the hell is it 80 more expensive??
If its any of the others then why is there practicly no price difference?

Any insight on this would be very much appreciated.
I'm just a little scared of buying the wrong car :P

Thx

I'll try to clear thing up on the links in you post the best I can. I don't read german so I'm only going by the pictures.

Link 1: This is the base AWD chassis with no autoscale body. To use this for drifting you would also need drift tires, autoscale body, and transmitter.

Link 2: Is the AWD with the double wish bone suspension and the chase mode. I would not recommend this one for drifting because the fancy rear suspension is largely uneccesary for drifting.

Link3: This is the AWD with fancy suspension again without the chase mode.
I still cant really recommend this one either because of the extra suspension bits.

Link4: This is the basic AWD chassis and the body. I would recomend this. All you will need is a transmitter and drift tires.

gctkaz
2012.02.27, 06:10 PM
Just a few days ago I installed a ball differential in the front bulkhead and tightened it up. It's an entirely different machine now - at first I could only drift on carpet with some difficulty but now I can go sideways forever on any hard surface.

I guess some people might say it's a crutch but having locked F+R diffs makes a huge difference in control.

thestug
2012.02.27, 06:18 PM
1)Yes, it drifts perfectly with just drift tires. No NEED to really change anything. You can change things if you WANT, but the stock setup is perfect in my opinion.

2)Very little, I use 1.5 degree on the front. That is it.

3)No, gyros are not necessary. Period.

4)For drifting the body won't really matter as long as it fits. Racers just like to fine tune the balance and keep weight to a minimum. I have many bodies and the all drift well.

5)Add bearings and CVDs. The bearings will take strain off the motor making it run cooler. I never have had any need for the metal motor mounts and heat sink.

6)Yes the mini will fit it is 90mm. The AWD will support 98mm bodies with the use of a chassis extension. The AWD will support most 90 and 94mm bodies.

7)tiki tiki can be turned off and driven normally.

8)Not every 2.4 chassis will support the gyro, but it is not neccesary on the AWD. The newer chassis will have the gyro.

Hope this clears thing up. :)

angel7692
2012.02.27, 06:20 PM
Let's see if I understand your question: Your worried that the only that "works" with the body is the $259 one?


If that's your question I can help (Ordered in terms of quality):

1) Tiki Tiki - The best one available. In addition to having two ports for stuff it has an upgraded suspension. This is the one I bought. I figure if I'm already spending $200 for a toy car I might as well go balls to the wall.
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flyp...t&setlang=deu#

2) DWS - AWD Chassis w/ Chase mode. (It throttles your car to 70% power and when used to proper remote you get a "turbo" button. Your car goes at 100% throttle for 3 seconds.)
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flyp...t&setlang=deu#

3) Chassis - Just an AWD Chassis
So I have what I thinks is a standard chassis.
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flyp...t&setlang=deu#


and a bunch of autoscaled ones. For instance
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flyp...ct&setlang=deu


That is an auto-scale body paired with a chassis. The above 3 chassis can be paired with almost any body and for sure any body that is labeled for "MA-010 and MA-015". Does that help?

thestug
2012.02.27, 06:27 PM
Just a few days ago I installed a ball differential in the front bulkhead and tightened it up. It's an entirely different machine now - at first I could only drift on carpet with some difficulty but now I can go sideways forever on any hard surface.

I guess some people might say it's a crutch but having locked F+R diffs makes a huge difference in control.

In my experience with diffs, (long story don't even get me started) for drifting it helps me to lock the rear diff. It just makes things much more consistent. Ball diff tend to make things higher maintenance. The best drifting I have ever done is with the stock diffs just modified. I locked the rear diff and made the front diff into a grease diff. A grease diff is just a diff with the internal gears taken out and packed with a thick damping grease. The only problem was that the front diff leaked the grease out slowly and needed to be repacked often. This setup offered me a countersteer style of drifting. It was mostly rear wheel drive ,but offered a tiny bit of help from the front wheels. It is definitely more challenging than the stock set up, but having the front wheels turned to countersteer through the whole drift is incredible. I just need to plug the holes in the side of the diff to ge it to work properly ALL the time.

LED
2012.02.28, 02:07 AM
Again thx for the replys.

So.
Stay away from the fancy rear suspension.
-That leaves the basic chassis.
Lock the diffs to get the best drifting result.

Now I still dont understand why the last link is 80 more expensive then the standard chassis. A body costs like 35. Where is the extra money comming from? Any ideas? Maybe bearings or so? I want to know if there is anything on the complete package that I need for a drift car. Else I would just by the standard chassis, I have some bodys that I can use for drifting so I dont want to spend the extra money if it is not nessecary.

I do know bodys are interchangable, or anything else you can do with a mini-z. In that way I know all the tuning stuff for an MR02 MR03. I'm just totaly lost in the AWD and drifting, never came in contact with them before.

Bodom
2012.02.28, 03:46 AM
Now I still dont understand why the last link is 80 more expensive then the standard chassis.
I suggest you to check the item numbers shown at kyosho.de.
For example the link you gave for the so-called standard chassis (http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=24146&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu#) - is actually MA-015 chassis set (http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/detail.html?product_id=107832) !
It supports Tiki-Tiki and Gyro port!
I cannot explain the price difference as well.
My suggestion is to go for this MA-015 chassis set + AutoScale body (look for one designed for the MA-010/MA-015) + Transmitter + Drift tire set + Ball Bearings.
That way you will have the latest electronics (MA-015) and the body you like for less money.

thestug
2012.02.29, 01:39 PM
I suggest you to check the item numbers shown at kyosho.de.
For example the link you gave for the so-called standard chassis (http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=24146&category_id=97d2c98157252618233e3359dc745a94&ps_session=cq69jur2egi89d92nnrmnqm312&mod_title=product&setlang=deu#) - is actually MA-015 chassis set (http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/detail.html?product_id=107832) !
It supports Tiki-Tiki and Gyro port!
I cannot explain the price difference as well.
My suggestion is to go for this MA-015 chassis set + AutoScale body (look for one designed for the MA-010/MA-015) + Transmitter + Drift tire set + Ball Bearings.
That way you will have the latest electronics (MA-015) and the body you like for less money.

Yes, this is probably you best bet. The MA-015 is the "standard" chassis with the new electronics that includes the tiki tiki and gyro port. You probably won't use any of the extra features. So I might get an older AWD chassis w/o the extra features that will probably be cheaper. It might be hard to find an older AWD chassis.

I'm actually looking to sell my drifter soon if you are interested. It has all the goodies for drifting. :)

LED
2012.02.29, 02:39 PM
Thanks for the advice guys.
I ordered the MA-015 tikitiki chassis.
I was a little scared to get one without the gyro port because I tried 2 cars a couple of days ago. One without the gyro and one with the gyro. And I tought the difference was realy impressive. Altough my intend is not to use the gyro, I like the have the backdoor open if I have no other option.

thestug
2012.02.29, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the advice guys.
I ordered the MA-015 tikitiki chassis.
I was a little scared to get one without the gyro port because I tried 2 cars a couple of days ago. One without the gyro and one with the gyro. And I tought the difference was realy impressive. Altough my intend is not to use the gyro, I like the have the backdoor open if I have no other option.

Try learning without the gyro first. My recommendation for learning to drift is to practice circles and figure-eights first. You will like the chassis you picked. :)

LED
2012.02.29, 04:56 PM
Like I said I was planning to try without the gyro, cause I feel its like cheating :P
But I also want a cheap easy to drive drifter. So if a gyro can work out any problems I might have then so be it.

This anyone know if the dnano gyro also works for mr03 and awd?

thestug
2012.03.03, 02:37 PM
I have heard that the dnano gyro will work. I think it is even cheaper.

gctkaz
2012.05.07, 06:44 PM
Just wanted to update on the brief exchange about diffs between thestug and I.

I use my MA-010 chassis for both racing and drifting, and with my tightened F+R ball diffs, the handling was quite poor for grip driving on RCP.

I have gone back to the stock gear diffs (with 3racing heavy duty outdrives) and somehow I can still drift pretty well on hardwood, even with the diffs spinning practically free. I guess my skill improved recently, but I had been practicing on 1:10. With the gear diffs, the car spins out much more easily, but I learned to control the throttle and steering much better.

So... I guess for the cheapest drifting setup, the only requirement is hard drift tires and practice!

KA2AEV
2012.05.07, 07:07 PM
So what motors do you guys use in your AWDs for drifting?

thestug
2012.05.08, 03:49 PM
I like the stock motor to be honest. I have also used a 70t motor that works well, but not noticeably different than the stock. The more grip there is on the surface you are driving on the more power you will need. Stock it good on hardwood floor or linoleum. I like the 70t on carpet. I have never driven on RCP ,but I assume you would want something slightly more powerful. The idea here is to just match the motor to your surface.

reaper
2012.05.09, 03:52 PM
Like I said I was planning to try without the gyro, cause I feel its like cheating :P
But I also want a cheap easy to drive drifter. So if a gyro can work out any problems I might have then so be it.

This anyone know if the dnano gyro also works for mr03 and awd?
As said many ti es in this thread ( that you seem to have ignored) the gyro will do nothing for drifting its not that kind of gyro

gctkaz
2012.05.14, 01:29 AM
Same here with Kyosho stock motor for hardwood.

I have just installed a 3racing super stock v2 yesterday though, since I want to be a little more competitive for grip driving on RCP. Drifting that on hardwood I just need to go easier on the throttle.