Carolina Cup 2012 Race 3

[kwsmith29]

Join us for the third Carolina Cup Race of the 2012 Season. We will be racing at the Indoor RC Track at High Speed Hobbies in China Grove, NC . This will be our third event of the Carolina Cup Challenge 2012, Saturday September 22, 2012 featuring the Out of control F1 class! We will also be running the competitive LM2 LeMans Prototype Class 70t hand out motors and of course the main stay GT2 with the 70t hand out motors. We will also have a Sportsman GT2 class 70t/80t for new racers, young and old, who want to join the fun.

Track open for practice all day Friday September 21st(1:00PM - 7:00PM)
Then race day Saturday September 22nd
Schedule: Morning Practice (8:30AM - 10:30AM)
Qualifications Start at 11:00
Three 4 Minute Heats with 8 Minute Mains

Race Location:

High Speed Hobbies China Grove, NC
2510 Highway 29
China Grove, NC 28023
US
(704) 855-2940

Sponsors:
High Speed Hobbies
Paint by K Dub
Hatley's Home Repair


Race Fees:

First Class: $20.00
Any additional classes Classes $10.00(1 or 2 classes)
Use of Handout Stock Motor Included

Sportsman: $10.00 (Handout Motor not required)

Friday Practice: $5.00 per Racer, All Day

ILap Transponder Rental: $5 with harness (Available for purchase as well)




RACING CLASSES
GT2 - LMP2 - F1 - Sportsman GT2 70 or 80 turn PN motor.

SEE RULES BELOW:


Grand Touring Class GT2

Chassis: Any 1/28th scale 2WD chassis.
Track Width: 80mm max
Wheel Base: 86-102mm

Body: Kyosho ASC, White Body or equivalent (TRP, Iwaver, X-Mod, etc...) hard plastic bodies allowed, excluding LM-LeMans Prototype bodies (See LMP class list) or Can-Am/Pan-type bodies. No thin shell Lexan/polycarbonate bodies allowed. Bodies may be altered for wheelbase but a maximum wheel opening of 31mm measured horizontally must be maintained. Wheel wells may be altered for tire clearance but the body must cover the tire completely when viewed from above. Cabin window must be retained but may be lightened internally, polycarbonate (Lexan) windows allowed. Headlight buckets may be removed but lenses or covers must be retained. Taillight lenses and housings may be removed. The rear fascia or bumper maybe cut but no higher than 18mm from the chassis bottom plane. Holes are legal in the remaining fascia. Small body parts such as mirrors, canards and exhaust pipes may be omitted. Front air-dams, splitters and body sides may be trimmed for track clearance.

Width: 82mm max.
Length: 200mm max
Height: 70mm max

Wing: All wings original to the body are legal. Aftermarket or non original wings must fit within the confines of main body. Wing must not extend higher than roof line relative to chassis bottom plane (excluding extensive roof scoops, for example Kyosho NSX), past widest point of body, or beyond rear of body work. This includes all parts of wing (side dams, etc...).

Electronics: Stock Mini Z board, Fets unlimited.

Batteries: 4 x AAA NiCad, NiMh or Alkaline (Lithium based batteries NOT allowed)

Wheels: Any Mini-Z type wheels, plastic or aluminum.
Front: 9 x 22mm max
Rear: 11 x 22mm max

Tires: Any rubber Mini-Z type tires (no foam).

Min Weight: 175g with transponder.

Motor: 70 turn hand out(hand out motors will be returned to race director at end of event.)



Le Mans Prototype Classe LMP2

Chassis: Any 1/28th scale 2WD chassis.
Track Width: 80mm max
Wheel Base: 102mm only

Body: Kyosho LM-LeMans Prototype ASC or White Body only:

Porsche 962, any version.
Mazda 787, any version.
Sauber C9, any version.
Nissan R390

Wheel wells may be altered for tire clearance but the body must cover the tire completely when viewed from above. A maximum wheel opening of 32mm measured horizontally must be maintained. Cabin windows must be retained but may be lightened internally, polycarbonate (Lexan) windows allowed. Headlight buckets may be removed but lenses or covers must be retained. Taillight lenses and housings may be removed. The rear fascia maybe cut but no higher than 18mm from the chassis bottom plane. Holes are legal in the remaining fascia. Small body parts such as mirrors, canards and exhaust pipes may be omitted. Front air-dams, splitters and body sides may be trimmed for track clearance.

Width: 82mm max.
Length: 200mm max
Height: 60mm max

Wing: All wings original to the body are legal. Aftermarket or non-original wings must fit within confines of main body. Wing must not extend higher than roof line relative to chassis bottom plane (excluding extensive roof scoops, for example Kyosho NSX), past widest point of body, or beyond rear of body work. This includes all parts of wing (side dams, etc...).

Electronics: Stock Mini Z board, Fets unlimited.

Batteries: 4 x AAA NiMh or Alkaline (Lithium based batteries NOT allowed).

Wheels: Any Mini-Z type wheels, plastic or aluminum.
Front: 9 x 22mm max
Rear: 11 x 22mm max

Tires: Kyosho LM specific tires only.

Min Weight: 175g with transponder.

Motor: 70 turn hand out(hand out motors will be returned to race director at end of event.)




F1

Min Weight: 200g with transponder.

Wheels: Any Mini-Z F1 type wheels, plastic or aluminum.

Tires: Any rubber Mini-Z type tires (no foam).

Batteries: 4 x AAA NiMh or Alkaline (Lithium based batteries NOT allowed).

Motor: Open



Sportsman GT/LM

Chassis: Any 1/28th scale or similar 2WD or 4WD chassis.
Track Width: 80mm max
Wheel Base: 86-102mm

Body: Kyosho ASC, White Body or equivalent (TRP, Iwaver, X-Mod, etc...) hard plastic bodies allowed, including LM-LeMans Prototype bodies

Electronics: Stock Mini Z Board, unlimited fets.

Motor: Stock Kyosho, Stock PN 70T, or 80 turn.

Batteries: 4 x AAA NiCad, NiMh or Alkaline (Lithium based batteries NOT allowed)

Wheels: Any Mini-Z type wheels, plastic or aluminum.

Tires: Any rubber Mini-Z type tires (no foam).



Driver List:



GT2
Albert
Joshua
Wade
Landon
Daddy Rabbit
Chad
BJH44
Hatley
Terry
Josh
Shelby ?
Rodney
Conner
Robbie
Sammich



LMP2
Albert
Joshua
Wade
Daddy Rabbit
Chad
Hatley
Terry
Josh
Shelby ?
Rodney
Conner
Robbie
Sammich ?


F1
Albert
Joshua
Wade
Landon
Daddy Rabbit
Chad
BJH44
Hatley
Terry
Josh
Shelby ?
Rodney
Conner



Sportsman GT/LM

[Daddy Rabbit]

Sign me up for all three.

[hrdrvr]

I wish we could get you guys to do Can-Am instead of LM....but oh well. I'm in for 2...GT2 and F1.

[chad508]

Dang only 2 weeks notice? I try and see if I can get off work. If I can I will be running all 3

[kwsmith29]

Sorry Chad. We did the 22nd, it was my understanding the majority of the beach guys would be available for that date. The majority of our guys found out dates last night. Hope it all works out..

Come on Landon. I know you have an LM body laying around.

Wade

[miamimcnutt]

wheres your old box stock car run that

[mleemor60]

I will provide you with a car to run. I'll even supply the cheese.

[hrdrvr]

Come on Landon. I know you have an LM body laying around.

I do have an LM body, but no extra chassis, and no motor mount that is good at 102. i rarely run any longer than 96, so i got rid of all my old LCG pods.


wheres your old box stock car run that

I sold that box stock car to Grason when he burnt up one of his cars a while back. I only have two cars now. My 70t GT, and my mod car. In theory I could tear down my mod car, and make something work, but it's hard for me to justify tearing down the best car at our track that I run every single week.


I will provide you with a car to run. I'll even supply the cheese.

I think I will pass. I've seen your cars going around the track, lol. Just kidding....but in all seriousness, I don't want to be learning how to drive one of your cars when I can be focusing on getting my two cars good enough to get the points I need. At the last cup race I was barely lucky enough to have two cars to run by the third qualifier, and those were ones that were dialed when I left here. BTW, I'm full of cheese :D

[mleemor60]

No dialing in needed. Arrive and drive. Or. Is that clucking I hear in the background?

[hatley]

Man r we children or adults :eek:

[hatley]

Bottom line by not running what we no everyone has in classes is effecting the mini z racers as a group event and also hsh losing out on profit for that class . Were is the unity :D

[kwsmith29]

It's not a matter of unity. Just giving Landon a hard time.

Remember I'll need help next week changing the layout if anyone is available.

Wade

[hrdrvr]

No dialing in needed. Arrive and drive. Or. Is that clucking I hear in the background?

Clucking....if that's clucking you hear I guess the it's in the fore ground, lol. :p



for someone like you landon whos into mini-zs they way you are you would think that you would have a car for every class its hard for me to think that you only have two cars(classes of cars)

Albert, I used to have a car for every class, and a couple of extras just in case something went wrong or I wanted to try something different. That was back in the day of $100 cars, $25 diffs, and DDS suspensions. In the new day of expensive cars, diffs, tri-shocks, and a front suspension I actually have to put money into (generally ran stock knuckles and springs on the 02s), I can't afford to have 4-8 cars all set up the way I want to. Also, i have found that the hobby is much easier and enjoyable for me to only have to have 2 cars handling well. Since limiting myself to only running 2 classes at out of town races, I have finished every single class I have run on the podium. I get more free time to get those cars right, and I've even had some time to help ole Daddy Rabbit out here and there. With F1 being one of the classes at this race, I would consider running a third (since I don't work on my F1), but not when it will be a car and class I never run. I haven't run an LM body since running box stock at y'all race at the beginning of this year.



Man r we children or adults :eek:

We might be considered adults....but aren't we just getting together to play with toys? I guess we can just expect mature childish behavior, lol.



It's not a matter of unity. Just giving Landon a hard time.

Remember I'll need help next week changing the layout if anyone is available.

Wade

Giving Landon a hard time is not allowed. Y'all are all in violation of Cup code #112. I will be deducting 150 points from Rodney's season total.

Changing the layout? Sounds good to me. Is it going to be fast and flowy?

[kwsmith29]

It will be a Wade layout......SLOW and Technical.......

:D

[Daddy Rabbit]

Looking forward to it Wade. Can't wait.,

[miamimcnutt]

hey DR im gonna take some of your paint off your car lol

[Daddy Rabbit]

I am looking forward to running, we have been away for three weeks.

[BJH44]

Im with landon on running can-am instead of Lemans. I would run all 3 classes tht way, but don't have a car set up for Lemans. So ill just stick with running GT and F1.

[kwsmith29]

Anybody else from the MBMZR or LET"S go Racing group going to make it?

Sorry to BJH44, I don't know your name for the drivers list. :D

Chad are you in for sure?

Thanks,
Wade

[chad508]

I will know tomorrow. Not sure about anyone else. But I do know we are having a time trying to find a hotel room with that car show in town. Bjh44 is Brandon

[mleemor60]

What is your price range? Standards? How many people?

[Sammich]

no one running the sportsman?

[hatley]

I can have shayla and drake in sport mans and maybe bob will run in it

[kwsmith29]

Bob will be out of town..

[hatley]

Bob will be out of town..

U r right I forgot he told me that

[hatley]

I will know tomorrow. Not sure about anyone else. But I do know we are having a time trying to find a hotel room with that car show in town. Bjh44 is Brandon

I have a 30ft camper I can set up for u guys to lay your head down :eek:

[chad508]

ok i got off work so i will be there. as for a place to rest my head we have something in the works, but thanks for all the offers

[kwsmith29]

New lay out went up Saturday. Should be a competitive race. Nice flowing lay out with plenty of pass opportunities. Hopefully a few more beach racers can make it.

[Sammich]

i think i'm gona go and run in teh sportsman class. guess i'll be on the road by about 4 or so, saturday morning

[chad508]

just plan to run with everyone else. you need to get use to running in the pack anyways. everyone will get sorted into the heats they should be in by the end anyways. dont be scared that you will be in the way its all part of racing, the better drivers should be able to get around.

[kwsmith29]

Trail by fire is always good experience...

[hrdrvr]

I say run what ever you are comfortable with Bryan. You are a legitimate beginner, and if you are more comfortable running sportsman, then by all means do that. My opinion though...is that you are ready for the big boy class :D

[Sammich]

just plan to run with everyone else. you need to get use to running in the pack anyways. everyone will get sorted into the heats they should be in by the end anyways. dont be scared that you will be in the way its all part of racing, the better drivers should be able to get around.

I say run what ever you are comfortable with Bryan. You are a legitimate beginner, and if you are more comfortable running sportsman, then by all means do that. My opinion though...is that you are ready for the big boy class :D

lol thanks for the votes of confidence...depending on how i do tomorrow night i might consider the bigger races...we'll see though

[Daddy Rabbit]

Bryan....I agree with LT you will do fine with the big guys, it all gets sorted out in the end. But!!!!! Do what you are comfortable with and enjoy.

[kwsmith29]

Having fun is the only requirement at this event.

[Sammich]

I guess i'll try my hand at GT2 and Sportsman then

[miamimcnutt]

someone correct me if im wrong but if you run sportsman you cannot run any other class

[hatley]

Hey Albert not sure how but drake does at the beach

[spdnutknapp]

Heck: landon I will let you run my box stock for lm if you want.

[kwsmith29]

Alright guys keep in mind we need a minimum of 5 drivers to make a class and the premise of the Sportsman class is a safe haven for new inexperienced drivers. I don't want to have an experienced racer drop down and where out the newbees.

[Sammich]

Alright guys keep in mind we need a minimum of 5 drivers to make a class and the premise of the Sportsman class is a safe haven for new inexperienced drivers. I don't want to have an experienced racer drop down and where out the newbees.

i wouldn't say i'm experienced, i'm more of a newbie than anything. but i have no issues racing w/ the experienced, and if i can't race on teh sportsman as well, i'm ok w/ that, i understand the basis of the sportsman class and respect that. i'd run what i can w/ the car i have and just leave it at that..

just a double check..i can run the LMP2 w/ a McL body, correct?

[mleemor60]

No. But don't worry. We will fix you up.

[chad508]

that would be a negative on the McL. only the mazda 787, porshe 962, sauber c9 and nissan 390.

[Sammich]

fair enough :D

[miamimcnutt]

fair enough :D

i have 2 lm bodies u can choose from for you to run i will bring them sat

also the shop will open at 830 am sat morning

cant wait to see you guys

[chad508]

We are heading up Friday about 11am should be there in time to get a little practice in before the big day. See everyone tomorrow evening

[miamimcnutt]

We are heading up Friday about 11am should be there in time to get a little practice in before the big day. See everyone tomorrow evening

i will be at the track on friday around 2 or 3 chad ,if you could make over there around then i need some info from you

[kwsmith29]

Breakfast at the Lane Street Grill tomorrow at 7:30. See y'all

there

[Daddy Rabbit]

Hey guys, had a great time racing with you all.:D
Thanks to all the people that put things together for us.:)
My opion, and it is just that, an opion. i think we need to do away with the old hand out motors, they have done their job, let um go. Just sayin.;)

[hatley]

Sounds good to me D.R :eek:

[miamimcnutt]

in my opion that is not a good idea everyone will start calling each other out

[chad508]

i too had a good time with some good finishes. i really wanted that 1st place gt but obviously not bad enough.
as far as motors i say we just make all the classes mod. no calling anyone out then. just run as fast as you want :)

[hrdrvr]

I had an awesome time! It was one of my favorite Wade layouts ever, the racing was close, and I performed pretty well :D I will not say that Rodney won;t win when he comes down here, but he is going to have to fight harder for wins at the last race!! Chad and I are going to be on our game for the next round!!

I also posted the current points standings.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38392

Chad, Wade, Josh and I all have a legit shot at second, while Rodney has an almost perfect score so far.


i think we need to do away with the old hand out motors, they have done their job, let um go. Just sayin.;)

I have some ideas that may end up being better than the current set up. I just need to figure out who to talk to to get some feedback on the direction for next year :D


in my opion that is not a good idea everyone will start calling each other out

You guys do that already, lol. There are a lot more options than just the honor system.


as far as motors i say we just make all the classes mod. no calling anyone out then. just run as fast as you want :)

While I like the idea of just running mod, I love the close racing we get with the controlled motors. Maybe going to one 70t class and two mod classes would relieve some of the pressure on the motors, and some of the shady allegations :D

[Sammich]

While I like the idea of just running mod, I love the close racing we get with the controlled motors. Maybe going to one 70t class and two mod classes would relieve some of the pressure on the motors, and some of the shady allegations :D

definitely like this option, i dont see totally doing away w/ 70T completely

[miamimcnutt]

and Landon so do you

[hrdrvr]

and Landon so do you

At least you assume I do. I can not tell you the last time I thought some one was cheating. It's been even longer since I actually accused any one of such. It was before you were even racing with us, I know.....

I like writing the rules where everything is legal. That way there isn't a such thing as cheating. I wish we could do that with the cup rules, and every other event for that matter.

[kwsmith29]

I can tell you right now if all the animosity and griping doesn't go away the series and racing Mini Z's in general is doomed.

Hand out motors are a great way to control things so everything seems fair and for the most part hand out motors are great. If you run a new motor every race. In here lies the quandary. Motors are abused, wore out or don't get proper maintenance(this is not a slam on anybody, Please don't take that way). Having new hand out motors or having someone go through each motor every race is not cost efficient for this series.

There are three other ways to skin this cat.....

First of all; all mod classes. On this point I do agree with Landon, I love the close fields the 70 turn motors create. Some of the closest tightset fields I've ever seen. Mod motors would kill close racing, and I don't mean close racing between 2 or 3 racers. I mean close racing between an entire field of drivers and cars.

Second option; Put a claim rule on the motors. A claim that is the cost of the motor $10. Put rules in place that would allow a motor to be blueprinted(truing the com, advancing timing, and the replacement of brushes) with stock 70turn parts only, allow brushes to be upgrade to silver brush installs in the stock location and stock alinement. When a motor is claimed the owner is allowed to run the rest of the event or surrender motor at time of claim. Once motor is surrendered the motor is disassembled and checked. If illegal, claim money is given back to person that claimed the motor and the cheater is disqualified. If legal the racer claiming motor gets the diassambled motor. To claim the motor you must be running in the event and running in that class.

Or the third option; Same type of motor rules as option two, but at the end of the event all drivers in the A-main will pull motors after the race and two tech inspectors(one from each group competing) will disassemble and check motors for rule violations. If a motor is found illegal driver will be disqualified and forfeit the position and points.

We would need to sit down as a group or select representatives from each group and determine a simple, yet complete and clear set on rules for the motors.

Just my two cents,
Wade

[chad508]

the only problem i see with allowing blueprinting, advancing timing, trueing comm and all that other stuff is i dont want to have to do it. if i have to do anything to a motor other than spray some motor cleaner in it to be competative i will just run mod classes only. im fine with the motors we have now. i say at the start of a season everyone buys 1 motor that pn sells for the regionals. at the end of the race the motor goes into a bag for the next race. at next race you pull a motor if its a dud you get one alternate pull. at end of season motors can be sold to whom ever wants them for a set price to be determined. i feel sending the motors all the way to Australia is a little on the crazy side, they cost $10 and they produce no revenue for the series. we will always have faster motors and slower ones its just luck of the draw.

[Daddy Rabbit]

Hey guys, I did not mean to open a keg of worms here. I just think these handouts have done their job. Sell them at the end of the next race and get new for next year.

[Daddy Rabbit]

I think Chad may getting close to hitting on something here. Both HSH and LET's will have to order and invest in these motors at the beginning of every season and then recoup their investment fairly. The track that has the first race will have the biggest investment, so something would have to be worked out there.
Wade......I agree with you about the animosity, the drama and the BS. Also everyone taking a simple statement that someone makes and taking it personally and with the wrong meaning. We are all grown men here, all this crap needs to stop, so that we can enjoy racing even more.

[hatley]

I think Chad may getting close to hitting on something here. Both HSH and LET's will have to order and invest in these motors at the beginning of every season and then recoup their investment fairly. The track that has the first race will have the biggest investment, so something would have to be worked out there.
Wade......I agree with you about the animosity, the drama and the BS. Also everyone taking a simple statement that someone makes and taking it personally and with the wrong meaning. We are all grown men here, all this crap needs to stop, so that we can enjoy racing even more.

Amen D.R :cool:

[hrdrvr]

I can tell you right now if all the animosity and griping doesn't go away the series and racing Mini Z's in general is doomed.

Just my two cents,
Wade

That was more like 4 cents Wade, lol I guess that means I'm going to give you back .08 ;d

I totally agree with you on reduced animosity. I am sorry if I started that by replying with a joke to Albert. I thought the "lol" I put behind it made it known that it was a joke. I know just typing makes it hard to read humor, but I thought you guys knew me good enough to know my tone on that statement.

Just to clarify in all seriousness, I have not heard any one from our group accuse any one from HS in AT LEAST two years of any type of foul play. The last time I remember anything at all was the second Diablo (3 or 4 years, right?) where I had a problem with y'alls motors. It came around that y'all were doing things that I wasn't, but once I had a grasp on your rules, it wasn't a matter of cheating at all. The fact was, I didn't know y'alls whole rules package, and I wasn't taking full advantage of the way the rules were written. Shortly after that y'all came up with some very detailed written rules, and it has been clear ever since then. We also came up with the joint Carolina Cup rules (Pedro, Mike, and I worked on these tirelessly for months and months), which I think cover pretty much everything in very good detail. I mean, here we are three years later, and the rules have rarely been challenged by any innovations. All of these posted rules have stifled any sort of cheating, and any sort of accusations about cheating between our groups. I think over all, that has brought us closer together, and I hope we can continue down the positive path.

I hope that clears up my stance on cheating from group to group. Also, I think I can confidently say that every one from our group feels the same way...there is no foul play, and definitely no good reason to complain about the possibility of it.


Option 1: We need some controlled motors for closeness. It doesn't have to be a majority of the classes, but it needs to happen. I've seen our groups have 10 people (with the addition of some other travelers) qualify on the same lap with the cup motors, and I would hate to see us chose a path that would lead us away from having that chance again.

Option 2 and 3; I have to say, I am with Chad on this. I'm not going to put work into a $10 motor, when I just just buy a different $10 motor and go faster. I would not be opposed to trying to run in this class, but if I felt I was at a significant disadvantage because others were working their motors more, I wouldn't continue to run it.



the only problem i see with allowing blueprinting, advancing timing, trueing comm and all that other stuff is i dont want to have to do it. if i have to do anything to a motor other than spray some motor cleaner in it to be competative i will just run mod classes only. im fine with the motors we have now. i say at the start of a season everyone buys 1 motor that pn sells for the regionals. at the end of the race the motor goes into a bag for the next race. at next race you pull a motor if its a dud you get one alternate pull. at end of season motors can be sold to whom ever wants them for a set price to be determined. i feel sending the motors all the way to Australia is a little on the crazy side, they cost $10 and they produce no revenue for the series. we will always have faster motors and slower ones its just luck of the draw.

We aren't sending the motors to AUS any more, but there is still a lot of time, and a little cost in maintaining them. I like the idea of actual hand-out motors (kept by the racer at the end of each event) more than the whole, "Ill buy one and throw it in" deal, but maybe that's just me.



Hey guys, I did not mean to open a keg of worms here. I just think these handouts have done their job. Sell them at the end of the next race and get new for next year.

It's a keg of worms that needs to be discussed. I just hope we can discuss it, and not argue about it. We are mature enough to do that.

I know we could sell some of the current motors off pretty easily, but who is going to foot the rest of the bill to buy the new ones? Cost is something we really need to take into consideration. Profitability is a big part of event planning and hosting for the two shops involved, and that needs to be at the fore front of any discussion about spending money for the series.

Hopefully not too many posts were made while I was typing this. It took me a while :cool:

[Daddy Rabbit]

WHEN IS THE 2012 CC RACE #4 GOING TO BE ??????:confused:
LET"S get going here, I have plans to make.:rolleyes:

[hrdrvr]

Its November 10th. I'll have the thread up soon.