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remy
2012.11.08, 11:55 PM
Hi,
I've just receive Orion Batteries matched Wurks (found on tiny RC). It's written that they have to be charged at 3 Amp with a delta peak of 10mV. Do I have to control the temperature and for witch value ?45C ? Do I have to cool the batteries ?. What will happen for the batteries if I charge at 1 Amp ?

Best regards

Pascal

imxlr8ed
2012.11.09, 08:32 AM
I have a feeling that if you charge them at 3 amps you will not have matched cells much longer (you'll have 4 little, useless, leaking metal cylinders). I charge at 1 to 1.5 amps, I discharge anywhere from 1 to 3 amps.

NoBrainer
2012.11.09, 09:00 AM
I charge at 3.5A every time.

Bodom
2012.11.09, 01:42 PM
I charge at 3.5A every time.

:eek: :confused:

NoBrainer
2012.11.09, 01:58 PM
Done that with my R1 Wurks 990mAh for a year now.
Works like charm.

Bodom
2012.11.09, 02:22 PM
You are sadistic abuser :p (jokingly)
I charge at no more than 1A and still got dead batteries after lets say - year and a half of usage.
Do you charge at lower amps sometimes ?

NoBrainer
2012.11.09, 02:53 PM
I know I'm going to get dead batteries after a year or something.
I want the punch now.
I buy new batteries if a cell dies on me.

Goning to get a another charger soon just so I can match better.
But I really like my Varta 15 min charger. Works like charm and gives the batteries a good punch.
Just remember that my charger has a fan.

I would not charge at 3.5A without some cooling....

imxlr8ed
2012.11.09, 04:25 PM
Charging matched cells that hard really screws with the internal resistance of them (the whole point they're matched). I could understand spanking them with 3 amps to peak them before a big race, but to constantly full length charge them at that rate seems like overkill. But if you have no problem buying new cells... what the heck, why not!. The cell matching guys must love you! :D

NoBrainer
2012.11.09, 06:09 PM
Yeah, since I haven't bought a set for over a year, I'm not so sure they "love" me...

I don't buy matched sets, because I feel like it's a waste of money.
The 2 sets I have bought that where matched, work worse than my unmatched R1 Wurks 990mAh charged at 3.5A
I would much rather do matching myself if I want to do that.

Do what you feel like yourself.
I can afford a set once a year.
You might not have that option, but I have.

Mike Keely
2012.11.09, 06:42 PM
How do you match them? Average discharge voltage, internal resistance, capacity???

NoBrainer
2012.11.09, 06:49 PM
I don't know if I'm doing it right, but I'm matching them with capacity.
How much mAh I can get into a cell.

My approuch is that then they all will die out at the same time.
Not sure if that's correct but...

Rune
2012.11.09, 07:03 PM
OT, but Just had to chime in on this one. We have been charging Orion/ Peak, TRP and R1Wurks batteries with 3A for many the years. Before that we used cheap noname batteries, charged the same way.
If a cell have trouble during the first charge, I throw it away. These cells are as far as I have concluded the ones leaking over time when charged this hard and destroys the charger.

Usually I change my cells after maybe 80 - 100 cycles, and then they are passed over to my kids who uses them for the next maybe 50 cycles. After that they are not good in these kinds of chargers.

I use the Varta 57075201441 and the Orion equivalent.
People at the track have been using this charger for 6 - 7 years now with all the popular cells. Never had any problems exept for the 700 - 750 HV batteries.

Roughly 30 packs of R1 990's are in use around here these days, and not one person have been having problems with this charging.

Keep in mind that most of these are used in mod cars, and never matched cells. Punch and runtime are as good as expected and more than enough.

TheRinger
2012.11.09, 10:20 PM
Hi,
I've just receive Orion Batteries matched Wurks (found on tiny RC). It's written that they have to be charged at 3 Amp with a delta peak of 10mV. Do I have to control the temperature and for witch value ?45C ? Do I have to cool the batteries ?. What will happen for the batteries if I charge at 1 Amp ?

Best regards

Pascal

It doesn't matter. if you charge them at 1 amp compared to 3 amps, it will take longer and they won't get as hot.
Now as for the debate at hand, to me buying matched batteries is a waste. But it's all in what you want. If you don't have the tools or know how to match batteries then buying them matched is the way to go. As for charging rates, I think charging them at 3+ amps is a waste. Your only getting them mostly charged because your pushing too much too fast into a very tiny cell. In turn your getting them hot and decreasing the life of the battery. Argue if you will but I have witnessed it personally. I myself charge my batteries at 1 amp and peak them before the race at the same amperage.
As for matching I go by amps of each cell. I buy a 12 pack and match them within themselves. I've done it this way for a few years and got 2 years out of them. And that's racing constantly and throwing them on a atomic discharge tray after I take them out of the car. I find that if you discharge them they seem to dump energy more better and stay even between the cells so they don't seem to have a memory effect to them even though Nimh's don't really have that problem like Nicad's. I bought another brick of peak racing batteries and this time I'm going to try matching them by resistance.
Also how much you use them and how much time they sit around also effects life. I've notice since I don't race as much as I used too the batteries seem to not last as long. They loose their edge overtime. So keeping them conditioned will give you the best life and use out of them.
And what use have I found out of match and spec batteries? Stock class racing. I can put any batteries in my mod cars and they run as fast as with matched batteries. But in stock they run faster and longer giving you the edge that you need. Debate as I know you all will but that's how I roll.:D

NoBrainer
2012.11.10, 03:24 AM
I think it's great to see all the variations on charging and discharging.
But to tell someone what is "correct", that I don't do. Since I don't know whats correct.

I like your way of doing it Ringer, but I don't have the time to do it. Thats why I use the same method as Rune.
When I discharged the batteries I did not get the same punch out of them the first charging after.
But after 3-5 times of useing the batteries and charging them again, thats when I got the punch back.

So it seems like we all have different views and experience here. So I think REMY can pick and choose... hihi

:D

Felix2010
2012.11.10, 07:21 AM
Hi,
I've just receive Orion Batteries matched Wurks (found on tiny RC). It's written that they have to be charged at 3 Amp with a delta peak of 10mV. Do I have to control the temperature and for witch value ?45C ? Do I have to cool the batteries ?. What will happen for the batteries if I charge at 1 Amp ?

Best regards

Pascal

My experience with R1wurks Matched Orion batteries:

A couple years ago, R1wurks was really putting out some cool Matched cells. They had 3 "levels" of Orion 900 Matched cells for sale. 1st level was something like "Amateur"; 2nd Level Matched Orion 900s were something like "Club racing"; And 3rd Level was called "Competition PRO" Matched.(1st<2nd<3rd = Good<Better<Best). I bought a set of PRO-Comp just for the hell of it.:)

The R1wurks people claimed that ONLY the PRO-Comp Matched cells were stable charging @3Amps. In fact, they said on the package to "ONLY" charge @3Amps; Can't remember what they said to Discharge the PRO-Comp cells at though. The R1wurks guys had pics of like 1000 raw Orion 900 cells they said they would put through the matching process using the best equipment for matching cells. And they said that only like 1% (Very small number) of cells matched were good enough to be PRO-Comp... So according to R1wurks, Yes, charge your matched cells @3Amps. They can take it.

Incidentally, many of you are correct about shorter life. But for A-Main Racing, no one cares about shorter life, just winning. These were supposedly the "ELITE" Level cells for the A-Main guys.

I wish R1wurks was still around (Or around to the public)... They had some cool stuff, can't find much anywhere... And definitely can't find fresh-batches of matched R1wurks Orion 900HV cells (Or any other matched cells) around of theirs anymore...:(:(

TheRinger
2012.11.10, 07:37 AM
My experience with R1wurks Matched Orion batteries:

A couple years ago, R1wurks was really putting out some cool Matched cells. They had 3 "levels" of Orion 900 Matched cells for sale. 1st level was something like "Amateur"; 2nd Level Matched Orion 900s were something like "Club racing"; And 3rd Level was called "Competition PRO" Matched.(1st<2nd<3rd = Good<Better<Best). I bought a set of PRO-Comp just for the hell of it.:)

The R1wurks people claimed that ONLY the PRO-Comp Matched cells were stable charging @3Amps. In fact, they said on the package to "ONLY" charge @3Amps; Can't remember what they said to Discharge the PRO-Comp cells at though. The R1wurks guys had pics of like 1000 raw Orion 900 cells they said they would put through the matching process using the best equipment for matching cells. And they said that only like 1% (Very small number) of cells matched were good enough to be PRO-Comp... So according to R1wurks, Yes, charge your matched cells @3Amps. They can take it.

Incidentally, many of you are correct about shorter life. But for A-Main Racing, no one cares about shorter life, just winning. These were supposedly the "ELITE" Level cells for the A-Main guys.

I wish R1wurks was still around (Or around to the public)... They had some cool stuff, can't find much anywhere... And definitely can't find fresh-batches of matched R1wurks Orion 900HV cells (Or any other matched cells) around of theirs anymore...:(:(
Well explained. I didn't know they sold three levels of battery packs.

Rune
2012.11.10, 10:12 AM
R1Wurks are still around.
http://www.r1wurks.com/

The batteries are still very good, and their service are superb. I have a new batch on the way from them as we speak:)

imxlr8ed
2012.11.11, 12:41 AM
I'm only racing once a month but since I've finally purchased some real AAA charging gear, this is the system I've been trying to stick to:

Charge the day before at 1 or 1.5 amps

Peak before use at 1.5 or 3 amps, depending on the type of race

Discharge at anywhere from 1 to 3 amps

Charge to half capacity (400mah) and store until next month

Seems to work for me so far and my cells seem to last much longer as well. I know my older packs are a little weaker but my newer sets still give me what I need for the mains. This is the basic system I used to use for my 10th scale cells as well. I know I killed a few of my packs by storing them at zero capacity like someone told me to try a long time ago, I think if they store at zero capacity, the chemistry stagnates, and if they store at full capacity they begin to crystallize. I'm usually flying this kind of stuff by the seat of my pants but my current system seems to works just fine.

As always... to each, his own.

Felix2010
2012.11.11, 10:31 PM
Thanks for the link Rune. I thought they might still be around...:) I just wish they would sell some of those Matched Orion's again:o

remy
2012.11.12, 03:54 AM
Hi,
I' tested my HV900 batteries matched by Wurks. I saw on the batteries that the date was 5/22/2008. They were good only to the dust box....I never had so poor batteries...there's no comment to do on this batteries.
I'll still select my batteries for races : Charge at 1C mesure the internal resistance and discharge at 3 Amps and make my packs myself. It' very long because I do it batterie/batterie.
All the batteries matched myself I found 600 mAh with a discharge at 3 Amp/0.9V. I' like just batteries with 750 to 800 mAh under a discharge of 3 Amps

Regards

NoBrainer
2012.11.12, 07:34 AM
Nice info.
Thanks for sharing!

Felix2010
2012.11.12, 10:42 AM
remy, sorry to hear about your cells.... 4 1/2 Years? Really? The shop here sold you almost 5-Year Old Matched cells? That's def not good...

Matched cells, are put through some med-heavy conditioning and are not going to keep on the shelf for long. I hope the shop reads this and removes any old matched cells from the store...

remy
2012.11.12, 11:22 AM
the date written on the batteries of the 5 packs I bought about 2 weeks ago: 5/21/2008 to 5/24/2008.
Voltage : 0V --> dead batteries.....

TheRinger
2012.11.12, 11:37 AM
Same here. Bought two sets a couple years ago and were dated 2008, DOA.

chad508
2012.11.12, 11:40 AM
Hi,
I' tested my HV900 batteries matched by Wurks. I saw on the batteries that the date was 5/22/2008. They were good only to the dust box....I never had so poor batteries...there's no comment to do on this batteries.
I'll still select my batteries for races : Charge at 1C mesure the internal resistance and discharge at 3 Amps and make my packs myself. It' very long because I do it batterie/batterie.
All the batteries matched myself I found 600 mAh with a discharge at 3 Amp/0.9V. I' like just batteries with 750 to 800 mAh under a discharge of 3 Amps

Regards

how are you measuring internal resistance

remy
2012.11.12, 01:46 PM
Hi,
I use a Ultra Duo 60 plus charger from Graupner. It measures the internal resistance when charging and discharging. I do it batterie by batterie.
http://www(dot)graupner(dot)de/en/products/028062b2-f59e-4c91-9147-8b6e261b0774/6478/product.aspx

Regards

remy
2012.11.12, 04:04 PM
hi,
the charger ultra duo 60 plus : http://www(dot)graupner(dot)de/en/products/028062b2-f59e-4c91-9147-8b6e261b0774/6478/product.aspx

Mike Keely
2012.11.12, 06:20 PM
I have to do mine one cell at a time also. I am using the checkpoint charger. It give you the average voltage while discharging, the IR, seconds to discharge, and you can set the voltage that it stops the discharging. I have not messed around with cells for a couple of years now. I know I should but just to lazy.:D

Felix2010
2012.11.12, 06:28 PM
Sorry, a little OT:
chad508 --- Some other high-end Chargers have IR capability also. The MuchMore Cell Master Andy Moore Edition (I use this charger), and Competition Electronics Turbo35 GFX are 2 that show IR using the Discharge Mode. IMHO, IR is tied for the most important stat about a cell. Just personal opinion tho...:)