PDA

View Full Version : Useful Idiot Design


imxlr8ed
2012.12.10, 10:19 AM
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=1490

I would like to introduce my new parts shop! Useful Idiot Design!

Many of you on here know me already and some of you have even run parts I've made in the past via different manufacturing techniques. I'm in this more for the fun than anything else, but I just needed to get some ideas out there and this seems like a real direct and easy way to get it done.

A full coverage F1 bumper is the first part design in my shop, this design has not been tested as of yet, but I will have my reviews and testing done soon. (I recommend you hold off buying until I get them tested) I am posting now only to start to get the word out a while.

My goal with this current design is to be able to use the existing stock front wings and still get excellent protection and increased deflection from collisions. All this while maintaining a lightweight design.

This current F1 bumper design will not work with the newest style front wings, but I will have a 2nd version added to my shop very soon.

Here's my shop, it's still in it's infancy but I'm hoping it grows up nicely:

* http://www.shapeways.com/shops/UID *

I'm really looking forward to getting my next project into my shop, just waiting on those prototypes as well (and some intensive crash testing results ;) ).

Also planning to take some design requests in the future too, I'm sure others have ideas for something special they may want built also!

leonabi76
2012.12.10, 11:40 AM
Congratulations on your new endeavor! Good luck with all you do and I look forward to viewing what you'll have to offer in the future.

Racer-HH
2012.12.10, 12:53 PM
First impression after seeing the pics: very interesting.

If you are looking for another tester, especially for v2, feel free to contact me.

NoBrainer
2012.12.10, 02:16 PM
That looked really nice.

imxlr8ed
2012.12.10, 02:51 PM
There's a bit more to it that you may not totally be able to see (unless the spinny type part viewer is working for you)... I just have the one pic up on there so far, I'll try to include more there sometime this week. I'm really hoping to finally recieve the first prototypes so I can just post pics of the actual part bolted onto the chassis.

This part was built out of years of frustration with the stock bumpers, I tried to beef it up in every possible place I can remember them cracking. I just hope the material performs to my expectations. I've had this material in my hands before and it seems like it will do the job well. But after years of design experience in the aerospace industry, one thing I've learned is that overall design configuration can have much to do with material performance. Until I have it in my own grubby little hands to bash it around and give it a good old-fashioned beating, I won't feel confident selling it.

I'm really hoping that my next part has racers saying, "Why didn't they just do that in the first place?!?" ;)

Rune
2012.12.10, 04:53 PM
Bumper looks great!
Good luck with the shop. Will make sure to check in:)

lfisminiz
2012.12.10, 06:16 PM
Nice name buddy!;):D Im your permenent tester..:p:D. Looks good.

imxlr8ed
2012.12.10, 07:24 PM
Wasn't too sure of the name at first, fits though. Simple common sense is my only saviour when it comes to my career. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but if you add enough pressure I will get the job done.

Golddust
2012.12.10, 07:44 PM
Good Luck Dude!
You'll be hearing from Team Golddust when you get that finalized

herman
2012.12.10, 10:10 PM
pretty cool design... price indicates 15.46 euro? hmm...
was thinking that you could extend the edges a bit, so that upon impact, the extensions could take up the deflection and dissipate forces before it actually hits any part of the wing... how far you extend, will be up to actual field/track testing... :D

good luck... really wanting to see this part made... :D

color01
2012.12.11, 01:31 AM
Most importantly, watch the material you're making this stuff out of. If it's porous, you're going to have to tell your customers to sand, prep and paint the bumper a la Alain's bodies. Otherwise the porous bumper will dig into the rails HARD.

Have fun man! Becoming a manufacturer (of sorts) is definitely on another level when it comes to appreciating and enjoying the hobby. ;)

imxlr8ed
2012.12.11, 10:21 AM
was thinking that you could extend the edges a bit, so that upon impact, the extensions could take up the deflection and dissipate forces before it actually hits any part of the wing... how far you extend, will be up to actual field/track testing... :D

Right, it's all based on the testing I'm going to be doing. I'm sure it will take some minor revisions, unless the material proves to be troublesome as far as breakage and flex amount. If it deflects too much, I would either have to add structure to reinforce or extend.

imxlr8ed
2012.12.11, 10:35 AM
Most importantly, watch the material you're making this stuff out of. If it's porous, you're going to have to tell your customers to sand, prep and paint the bumper a la Alain's bodies. Otherwise the porous bumper will dig into the rails HARD.

Yes, I will be documenting all of the finishing that will be required. Beauty thing of it is in regards to parts like this is that it is low visibility. Sanding can be done where required, and if your into total aesthetics for the whole part you can do that too.

My first 2 or 3 designs are all low to no visibility, but I have ordered some of the coming parts in "high detail plastic" just to see what options are available.

I also plan to give the option of ordering in other materials as well, different colors may work better for others tastes.

My next design will require grinding because it's going to be a fit to finish part and I had to keep it generic for it's purpose. I will only share that one when I have completed a range of testing. I'm looking at it most of these parts being grindable and tuneable for everyones different needs, like a base template of plastic that you make work for you.

TheRinger
2012.12.11, 12:57 PM
Nice design on the bumper. You gonna hook a brother up right?:p. Got anything else in the works?

imxlr8ed
2012.12.11, 02:19 PM
Price on there isn't firm yet, it's tough to figure out how much good old American ingenuity and style costs nowadays. :rolleyes:

Plenty in the works, leaning towards F1 designs currently. I would have more shown but I'm waiting just like you guys. The bumper prototypes are supposed to ship by tomorrow so I hope to have my review posted up the day I get them.

Just a heads up for everyone who may be planning to order some of my stuff, I ordered the bumpers on the 30th, they promised to ship by the 12th. You have to remember that these are not "in stock" parts and it's not like they ship them the day of order so it's not your typical online purchase.

I keep telling myself that my patience will be rewarded... I hope it is!

herman
2012.12.11, 06:11 PM
hmm… i guess the next project could include front and rear wing designs as well... i've seen a video somewhere, wherein the material they used was very durable and flexible/pliable... and maybe eventually an f1 body…

good luck :D

Fovea3d
2012.12.11, 06:12 PM
Welcome to the new Mini-z specialist @ shapeways ;)
Glad to see someone new experimenting with it.

The bumper looks nice and well designed, maybe a bit beefy for strong & flexible , you will know when you flex it with your hands. Maybe you can make some non structural areas thinner (down to .6 , .8 mm) and save on the overall cost.
In S&F 1 mm is harder than Kyosho plastic but can flex a bit. 2 mm would give the F1 nose the strength of a tank.

I'm with color about the porous material. But sanding or cutting this material is not the same experience as usual plastic. It is really strong. Sandpaper will do close to nothing, and even a dremel will have a hard time. Maybe you can design a thin rib that can slide on the RCP rails.

On the other hand the high detail plastic may be prone to break for this usage, but is excellent for static models or maybe wings, etc.

Well, you can only know upon testing. Let us know.
Congrats ad good luck!
Cool shop name btw ;)
Alain

imxlr8ed
2012.12.11, 11:59 PM
hmm… i guess the next project could include front and rear wing designs as well... i've seen a video somewhere, wherein the material they used was very durable and flexible/pliable... and maybe eventually an f1 body…

good luck :D

Your wish is granted... well, at least the wing portion of it so far.

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=1493

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=1492

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=1491

It's not in the shop yet, but I'm working on it right now! I really just wanted a wing with protection and lots of downforce acreage in mind and here's what I came up with.

Sorry about the fuzzy images, they're just quickie screengrabs.

imxlr8ed
2012.12.12, 12:13 AM
Welcome to the new Mini-z specialist @ shapeways ;)
Glad to see someone new experimenting with it.

The bumper looks nice and well designed, maybe a bit beefy for strong & flexible , you will know when you flex it with your hands. Maybe you can make some non structural areas thinner (down to .6 , .8 mm) and save on the overall cost.
In S&F 1 mm is harder than Kyosho plastic but can flex a bit. 2 mm would give the F1 nose the strength of a tank.

I'm with color about the porous material. But sanding or cutting this material is not the same experience as usual plastic. It is really strong. Sandpaper will do close to nothing, and even a dremel will have a hard time. Maybe you can design a thin rib that can slide on the RCP rails.

On the other hand the high detail plastic may be prone to break for this usage, but is excellent for static models or maybe wings, etc.

Well, you can only know upon testing. Let us know.
Congrats ad good luck!
Cool shop name btw ;)
Alain

Big thanks for the welcome! You had to know I'd follow the path eventually. :D

Yeah, I have the same feeling in regards to the 1mm thing but for these first prototypes I didn't want to go too lightweight at first. I can always throw it on the drillpress and see how much I can wittle out of it without compromising the structural integrity.

As far as the sanding goes, I've got a little drum sander on the dremel and I'm pretty sure that's gonna help. If that don't cut it I plan to get busy with the bench grinder out in the garage. If the surface still grabs the rails, there's always monokote, or superglue, or clear tape... etc. ;)

Just went down to the mailbox tonight (as I've been doing every night) and no parts yet... patience... patience... :o

Big thanks once again to all who want to give input here, that's kinda my goal with this whole thing.

arch2b
2012.12.12, 07:33 AM
the rear wing looks great!

imxlr8ed
2012.12.12, 10:27 AM
Thanks Ray! I'm fairly confident about this one so I put it in the shop for sale a while. I'm still trying to configure the material choices though. I would like to offer it in something more than just white.

I might try to clean up the model a bit and see if I can increase the resolution of some of the surfaces. I'm sure it can be sanded out if it gets printed in its current status but I'm positive that sanding these wings will be a labor of love. I gotta go buy some more finishing gear, something like a little carbide ball mill.

On a side note, I'm really interested if my choice of hole diameters in the bumper and the wing is correct. The holes are just a bit above minimum diameter for the typical Mini-Z screws. They should be self threading (like many other fastener points on the stock Z), but I tried to give it more meat in there than usual so as to avoid or minimize strip-out of screws. I will be able to adjust if necessary when I get my first prototypes.

ARN
2012.12.12, 12:10 PM
I know the mantis type bumpers are not allowed in the PN events. I hope UID bumpers will be allowed, if so I will likely get the F1 bumper & wing too!
but I better get a sticker of a bikini girl waving a checkered flag!!!

ARN
2012.12.12, 12:13 PM
also, I know that there are people wanting pn legal bumpers for racers too.
and also to be used for tracks like the one used for iiC in Vegas... just sayin...

DanDan
2012.12.12, 12:30 PM
I know the mantis type bumpers are not allowed in the PN events. I hope UID bumpers will be allowed, if so I will likely get the F1 bumper & wing too!
but I better get a sticker of a bikini girl waving a checkered flag!!!

My car has a Mantis front wing & I passed tech at the worlds ;) I believe there was another Mantis equipped F1 at our local regional too. I only started Mini-Z this year, but I haven't seen anyone have issues at tech (RCX 2012, PN Regional, PN Worlds) because of Mantisworx parts.

imxlr8ed
2012.12.12, 12:31 PM
I think the wider bumpers just make F1 class that much more fun and so much less destructive. How many times have we been pushing it out to the wall on the back stretch and suddenly the racer right in front of you gently taps the wall and snags into it so hard that he becomes instantaneously parked right in front of you? It usually brings out a yellow for clean-up of little winglets and other expensive plastic chunks.

I'd rather have everyone using one of these larger bumpers than to be behind someone who can stick a rail and cause a catastrophe. It's just better racing for everyone with these things.

I'm pretty sure Phil wouldn't keep these illegal for whatever rules he creates in the future... I'd rather have smoother races than bashfests. I got stuck in a rail once in a regional a while back and got my sideplate cracked in the resulting accident, there went that race for me and the other guy! :( If I would have had one of these, it wouldn't have happened. I know some would say, "well... just don't hit the walls!"... to that I'll say... easier said than done!

The shop logo is temporary, I'm working on a new one in between all of the modeling I've been doing.

briankstan
2012.12.12, 12:47 PM
great job on the designs, I especially love the Rear wing.

miniznewb
2012.12.12, 01:44 PM
I'm sure these bumpers will be tested fully at our next bash, I mean race day

ARN
2012.12.12, 01:49 PM
I think the wider bumpers just make F1 class that much more fun and so much less destructive. How many times have we been pushing it out to the wall on the back stretch and suddenly the racer right in front of you gently taps the wall and snags into it so hard that he becomes instantaneously parked right in front of you? It usually brings out a yellow for clean-up of little winglets and other expensive plastic chunks.

I'd rather have everyone using one of these larger bumpers than to be behind someone who can stick a rail and cause a catastrophe. It's just better racing for everyone with these things.

I couldn't agree more.

ARN
2012.12.12, 01:51 PM
My car has a Mantis front wing & I passed tech at the worlds ;) I believe there was another Mantis equipped F1 at our local regional too. I only started Mini-Z this year, but I haven't seen anyone have issues at tech (RCX 2012, PN Regional, PN Worlds) because of Mantisworx parts.I have it wrong then, maybe it was a racer bumper that was not allowed...
I'm glad to know PN is allowing Mantis cuz that means these should be no problem.

Mike Keely
2012.12.12, 03:37 PM
Is nylon a viable material to make them out of?

imxlr8ed
2012.12.12, 05:03 PM
Is nylon a viable material to make them out of?

To my knowledge, that's what this is. I think that's what all of the "Strong and Flexible" materials are. It's basically powdered nylon that get melted layer by layer with laser sintering.

Yep... found this on their site:

"The most popular material, the Strong & Flexible family is laser sintered nylon plastic that comes in a variety of colors and finishes. The material is incredibly versatile; when thin, it is flexible enough to be used for hinges and springs yet strong enough to be used as structural components when thicker. This material can be used for a wide variety of applications, from iPhone cases to jewelry, remote controlled quadcopters to wearable bikinis. "

"We start with a bed of powder, and then sinter the powder with a laser layer by layer, solidfying the powder as we go. Because of this layer by layer process, some models may see a staircase effect (see picture above). How much you see this effect depends on how your model is oriented in the print tray. Our production planners are working hard to orient models optimally to ensure efficient and good lookin' trays."

lfisminiz
2012.12.12, 06:17 PM
Ive run the Mantis bumper at all PN races, i know this one will be good to go too.:)

herman
2012.12.13, 02:45 AM
nice rear wing... like it… wonder if you'll incorporate the rear wing onto the body like the current Kyosho releases… next up front wing designs.…

or maybe a strong front wing that you dont need a bumper, or a front wing/bumper one piece design? :D

chad508
2012.12.13, 08:07 AM
I ran the v1 mantis bumper at this years worlds with no problem. I believe the rule is something like 45mm wide.
Cant wait to see what else you come up with Ed.

How about the tri shock arm that mounts to the motor pod that would allow pn shocks to work with the reflex damper. Basically the pn mount but pushed pushed back towards the chassis

imxlr8ed
2012.12.13, 10:06 AM
nice rear wing... like it… wonder if you'll incorporate the rear wing onto the body like the current Kyosho releases… next up front wing designs.…

or maybe a strong front wing that you dont need a bumper, or a front wing/bumper one piece design? :D

My initial front bumper design had all of the aero built into the design but I'm not a fan of sanding, finishing and painting so I felt the bolt-on route was better to take for this first initial release. I figured more would prefer to see their cars with more of an authentic look (I can't deny the beauty of the Autoscales!). This is all pending until I get my first round of parts to test, once I get a feel for what I can get away with structurally, then I will fix the winged design and release it.

Still no parts in the mailbox, but their tracking system says the labels are printed... this is torture for me! :o

imxlr8ed
2012.12.13, 10:10 AM
I ran the v1 mantis bumper at this years worlds with no problem. I believe the rule is something like 45mm wide.
Cant wait to see what else you come up with Ed.

How about the tri shock arm that mounts to the motor pod that would allow pn shocks to work with the reflex damper. Basically the pn mount but pushed pushed back towards the chassis

That would make me a design middle-man. If you could send me some pics of exactly what you're thinking, I'm more than willing to help out. I'll do some research tonight myself as well... I kinda have an idea but I'm not too familiar with the gear.

imxlr8ed
2012.12.14, 01:44 PM
All I can say is... I am extremely happy with the results! I will be making some very minor revisions and also adding some material options to the shop but other than that... it's a huge GO!!!

I will try to get some pics and I will be releasing some of my latest designs some time this weekend. Also, I will be creating individual threads for each design so as not to get all these posts mixed up here.

DO NOT place orders until I have each part on it's own individual thread, by that time I will have the revisions incorporated.

I need these to be as near perfect as possible or else I won't sleep well. :)

A quick update for now, the bumpers are tough as nails, they look awesome in black, and all of the older front wings I have on hand fit perfectly! I never knew crash-testing could be so much fun! :D:D:D

lfisminiz
2012.12.14, 08:35 PM
Congrats buddy!

imxlr8ed
2012.12.14, 11:06 PM
No time for pics tonight but another quick update, the bumper survived a good day of bashing without so much as a scuff, the material sands real easy but the black layer does come off, this is easily corrected with a sharpie. I'm quite confident that I could easily remove material from some areas and it would still survive quite well. After a few full speed turn-ins and straight-ons into the rails... no damage, a bunch of car collisions... nothing. It seems more likely that the mounting points on the chassis would crack or strip out long before this bumper gives out.

Stay tuned!

imxlr8ed
2012.12.16, 11:44 PM
Been working at this for a while but finally got the threads up! Lot's of pics and what I hope are very straight-forward instructions

My Pre-2.4ghz F1 Bumper thread:

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38663

And my new Secure Side Clip thread:

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38665

No thread for the F1 wing yet, I won't start a parts thread for something until I have it in my hands! It is for sale on there, and I'm confident it will do the job perfectly... but I'd recommend holding off until I get mine! (actually, Larry ordered it for me! :D)

Much more to come... all kinds of whacky ideas going through my head lately now that I know Shapeways can pull these jobs off to this level!

chad508
2012.12.17, 08:48 AM
parts are looking real good Ed. Hope to be trying some out here after xmas. imm also going to send you a pm about some other parts id like to see if you would be interested in making

hilldebrandt
2012.12.17, 09:28 AM
Ed, the parts look fantastic! Can't wait to see them in person...

imxlr8ed
2012.12.17, 09:34 AM
Thanks Chad! I'm looking forward to working on new designs so once I get past Xmas, the schedule will open up for more drawing board time.

The new 2.4ghz F1 wing is next, followed by my first stylish RC accessory.

Thanks Greg! I will have an extra available if nobody else snaps it up before then.

imxlr8ed
2013.01.11, 02:07 AM
So, what the heck am I doing up at 3am?... the usual, obsessing about parts!

Some of you might find this interesting...

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=1562

After, measuring every little nook and cranny of something 5-10 times and drawing it based on all of the quick averaging that occurs in my head (best guesstimating), sometimes I like to further agitate my senses by taking pics and trying to match up my stuff to see how close I actually got! It's just a real quick and dirty way to do it. If it's something I really want to match up, I fire up the printer and make some true to scale paper templates (loads of fun! :rolleyes:)

Real high-tech design process I have here, right? :D

Anyone know where I can score a laser 3D coordinate scanner for under $300? Maybe a Faro arm or a CCM for dirt cheap? ;)

hilldebrandt
2013.01.14, 06:51 PM
Just ordered the f1 rear wing, side plates and the 03 body mounts...can't wait!:D

lfisminiz
2013.01.14, 09:33 PM
Just ordered the f1 rear wing, side plates and the 03 body mounts...can't wait!:D

Same here the other week...:)

imxlr8ed
2013.01.14, 10:57 PM
Just got a shipment in today, the parts look excellent! I am extremely happy with the polished finish rear wing, worth every extra penny in my opinion! The 2.4 bumper is just waiting Sunday to get on it's new home, just the right amount of material, I wasn't sure if I got it where I wanted it but the flex is in all the right directions... just needs some good A-main crash tests! ;)

The box was huge! They ship these parts like they were the Dead Sea scrolls!

I will try to get some pics up tomorrow night!

I-Lap
2013.01.14, 11:55 PM
Received a few sets of body clips today.

They look great, even in the unpolished material.
I'll report back on performance after our next race.

+1 on the packaging. Each set is in its own little ziplock bag, lots of padding in a big box.

.

imxlr8ed
2013.01.15, 01:37 AM
Received a few sets of body clips today.

They look great, even in the unpolished material.
I'll report back on performance after our next race.

+1 on the packaging. Each set is in its own little ziplock bag, lots of padding in a big box.

.

It's funny to me that the sturdiest parts on my cars comes shipped that way, but Shapeways has been at this for a while now and they know how bad it is to have your idea show up at your house in pieces!

Good luck on the installs! Remember, you can't add material once you grind it off! Take your time fitting them up, you'll be fine!

imxlr8ed
2013.01.16, 01:06 AM
I wasn't kidding about the packaging...

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=1576

And all that was in it was this...
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=1577

The first shipment I recieved was more within reason as far as the size of the box goes. I guess it's just the way they do things there! :o

On the bright side... I've got plenty of bubble wrap now!

cowboysir
2013.01.16, 04:50 PM
Looks like cowboy's going to have an Idiot's F1...got a schwack of stuff for my other F1 in build process.

i'm looking forward to reporting the flex characteristics of the side plates.

imxlr8ed
2013.01.16, 05:22 PM
Looks like cowboy's going to have an Idiot's F1...got a schwack of stuff for my other F1 in build process.

i'm looking forward to reporting the flex characteristics of the side plates.

I'm looking forward to your report too! Thanks for the help! :D

I haven't ordered mine yet but I think Larry might have beat us both to the punch on the sideplates. I am about to order some new prototypes for some other ideas, just have to find the time to finish them up.

It kills me to have all these ideas and only small windows of time to get them done, and then to have to wait for manufacture and shipping... my own private torture! :(

lfisminiz
2013.01.16, 07:43 PM
I'm looking forward to your report too! Thanks for the help! :D

I haven't ordered mine yet but I think Larry might have beat us both to the punch on the sideplates. I am about to order some new prototypes for some other ideas, just have to find the time to finish them up.

It kills me to have all these ideas and only small windows of time to get them done, and then to have to wait for manufacture and shipping... my own private torture! :(

I did order the side plates but they havent shipped yet.:(

hilldebrandt
2013.01.23, 10:55 AM
YAY ! My parts are shipping today. :D

imxlr8ed
2013.01.23, 10:17 PM
YAY ! My parts are shipping today. :D

Let me know how it goes bro!

hilldebrandt
2013.01.24, 08:02 PM
Received my f1 wing, side plates, and 03 body clips today. Parts look really good...I'll be playing with them this weekend.:D

lfisminiz
2013.01.24, 08:06 PM
I'll definitely get to trying the F1 side plates. ;)

imxlr8ed
2013.01.24, 11:17 PM
I just got done finishing the wing and bumper for my Ferrari, found a red sharpie and it worked out pretty well.

Other designs in work... I'm kinda taking a week off. Bad timing though because work just asked for more hours the next few months so much of what I was planning may go on the back burner for a little while. :(

cowboysir
2013.01.26, 09:05 AM
Happy Birthday, Ed.

hilldebrandt
2013.01.26, 11:12 AM
Lordy lordy look who's 40 !:eek:

Happy B day Ed!

lfisminiz
2013.01.26, 11:35 AM
WOW....40!:eek: Enjoy buddy.:)

herman
2013.01.26, 07:30 PM
who would have thought this would turn into a bday thread…
:D sure hope it was happy!

imxlr8ed
2013.01.27, 05:42 PM
I was abducted and taken to a far away place to be dealt with accordingly by my wife... had an awesome weekend! Thanks guys!

chad508
2013.01.27, 07:08 PM
happy belated birthday Ed.

on another note have you messed with any wing designs for the cars?

Gowkaizer
2013.01.27, 08:02 PM
Happy belated Birthday!!!!!!:D

imxlr8ed
2013.01.28, 05:53 AM
Thanks Joey!

Chad, I am working the wings for the cars as I type... Hoping to get them in the shop soon!

pedrocamp
2013.02.05, 11:12 AM
Seriously cool Ed!!! Happy to see that 3D printing has gotten cheap enough to set up an enterprise as you have done, the price for your wings is quite reasonable and the material seems, as you describe, to be suitable for Mini Z use. We have been using Stratasys FDM machines here at at the shop for a few years now but the materials and process don't allow a fine enough resolution or properties for small scale. We do use the FDM parts quite extensively for full scale racing though, not just testing. Our outside contractors, when our in house machines are backed up, charge pretty hefty prices. I may send Shapeways a file or two to see how their parts compare to our stuff.
I should order a wing or two for my Zs, what would you recommend for an R8 body? High downforce type? Low downforce type?

Pedro

imxlr8ed
2013.02.05, 11:36 AM
Thanks Pedro!

Yes, I've used 3d printing a bunch of times at work for certain aircraft. The resolution was never an issue for full scale but the smaller stuff required too much sanding to be practical. Years ago, my cousin gave me a tour of his rapid prototyper at his job but the end result was too poor quality for what I wanted to do. It has come a very long way, and I'm sure it's going to go much further!

The R8 is the next wing I plan to attack, as soon as some free time comes around. Since the R8 and the 599 are the most popular new racing bodies as of late I want to do individually styled wings for both of them.

One down... one to go.

pedrocamp
2013.02.05, 11:58 AM
I think I saw arch or someone ask this but what is weight per cm3 for the material you are using? Have you had good results going to the 0.7mm minimum thickness they recommend? I'll order a sample pack from them nonetheless.

imxlr8ed
2013.02.05, 01:38 PM
I think I saw arch or someone ask this but what is weight per cm3 for the material you are using? Have you had good results going to the 0.7mm minimum thickness they recommend? I'll order a sample pack from them nonetheless.

Thinnest I've gone so far is around .040" thk (1.016mm), although there are some edges that have been formed thinner than that but the majority of my surfaces are kept above the minimums.

I didn't get a chance to research their densities as of yet... it's probably an easy find on their website though.

pedrocamp
2013.02.08, 08:04 AM
Ordered 3 of your wings, the V2 2.9 in black and polished white and a 599 wing in polished white... look forward to checkin' 'em out.

I also ran a work file thru, cost was good, I am interested to compare against our FDM process.

pedrocamp
2013.02.20, 12:53 PM
Received the work file I sent in to Shapeways and am quite impressed. The material is very tough, resilient and has nice resolution but of course it is a 1:1 piece. I received an email that the UID wings I ordered are on their way... look forward to checking them out.

I went ahead and ordered some foglight covers out of white polished I designed for my old Benz. Price was not bad, especially for something not available due to the age of my lights.

I also pushed our manufacturer liaison guy to get us an SLS machine for the shop, we have FDM now and they just won't hold up like the SLS part I have in my hand!

I recommend your parts on material and process choice alone, since I don't have part in hand but am sure you have done a great job on design, cool stuff!

imxlr8ed
2013.02.20, 02:10 PM
It's real good stuff. :D The material itself inspired me to try all kinds of different things and I've only really tried 2 types so far. Ideas keep coming in but theres no way to keep up now. I'm currently finishing up the F1 display chassis at nights, hoping to get it done by the end of the month so I can get onto the next cool thing.

I have a bunch of ideas for full scale stuff... I'll probably just start another shop for that though.

chad508
2013.02.20, 02:20 PM
So what Pedro is saying is that we will ow have a printer in the states we can use. Lol

imxlr8ed
2013.02.20, 02:30 PM
If he says he'll ship the stuff for me, I'll set up a shop with him! ;)

Traveler
2013.02.20, 02:32 PM
Where is Shapeways located?

hilldebrandt
2013.02.20, 02:45 PM
Shapeways is in Brooklyn, NY I believe...

pedrocamp
2013.02.20, 02:47 PM
NY, NY but package came from Queens.

If we get a machine at JGR I don't think I can use for personal projects... unless I can become the operator or buy a few beers for the guy that is!

I might eventually set up a shop on Shapeways but probably lean towards full scale restoration parts (like my fog covers) and designer/modeller for hire work, I'll leave Zs for Ed. I see a big market opening up here though for really cool stuff!

Traveler
2013.02.20, 02:57 PM
Thanks! What Chad said led me to believe they were non-US. Shoulda known better :rolleyes:

Reading about Shapeways now. Agree with PC about the potential market and have to congradulate Ed on being the first (as least state-side).

chad508
2013.02.20, 04:54 PM
Anything outside of South Carolina is foreign to me. Lol
Honestly I thought they were over seas

pedrocamp
2013.02.20, 05:54 PM
Started in Netherlands, now have offices in New York.

Traveler
2013.02.20, 07:19 PM
So how do I share ideas of new part with Ed? Via PM?

imxlr8ed
2013.02.20, 09:08 PM
PM is fine, I can't think of everything all myself!

As long as you realize that I'm not into paying royalties, dividends or stock options in UID in exchange for ideas!:rolleyes: I got into a real sticky conversation about this with a few other designers... the day I have to get a lawyer is the day I close shop!

Best I can do, if it's a completely original idea, is offer my trigger time at the design station and try to get a free part off to the idea provider.

I have thought of all kinds of stuff, have all kinds of oddball hairbrained schemes jotted down, it just takes time to get them all built! I've already refused to even look at two others ideas only because I don't want to compromise some projects I'm planning so please be vague in your description at first.

Paranoid... Me?... Nahhh! :eek:

Oh, and all of my parts have come from NY so you'll be supporting American jobs!

America... F#<* Yeah!!!

So bada$$ we can make war machines outta BEER!
http://www.brewsees.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/the-most-patriotic-beer-display-ever-942x628.jpg
And do it for under $18!!!

(it's late... I should really get to bed!)

Traveler
2013.02.21, 03:30 AM
You are too funny! Vague PM of Vogue idea sent!

imxlr8ed
2013.02.21, 07:41 AM
Challenge accepted!

Traveler
2013.02.21, 07:54 AM
Didn't mean to challenge you, but... AWESOME! :D
I would like a chance to make my idea a little less vague! I'll PM you my number and maybe we can talk.

imxlr8ed
2013.02.21, 09:21 AM
Ok!

The design is the easy part, time is the challenge for me. ;)

Currently on the verge of releasing another project, that comes first!

pedrocamp
2013.02.22, 11:44 AM
Received my wings... awesome Ed, nice job! They look cool, light and the material is tough, resilient and has good memory. It is stiff enough to provide downforce (I assume without seeing your tunnel or sim data) yet seems like it would be quite forgiving in a crash. Cool stuff!

chad508
2013.02.22, 11:53 AM
Can't wait to see them in person next weekend.

I have a small request. I hate mounting wings to cars as I never drill the holes straight on the body. Anyway of making some type of jig the wing could fit into to set position then remove and have a guide to drill holes in correct spot

arch2b
2013.02.22, 12:35 PM
with printing methods, it could be easy to model a finger held screw pattern jig. i would imagine it would be very cheap and only really need to be purchased once. good idea though :) god knows i've missed on a few myself over the years.

imxlr8ed
2013.02.22, 04:27 PM
I can do a fixture no problem. I always install the screws into the wing, then put tiny dabs of grease, toothpaste or something gooey on the heads of the screws. Line it up, drop it down to touch and then I get two tiny globs on the body. Then I grab my exacto and use the tip to get the drill locations marked.

Not rocket science but it's worked for me so far. The bit almost always walks though so theres times when I start with a small bit and then just finish it off with an exacto twist. If the wing isn't perfectly centered, I'll use this method to open up the holes in the right direction.

Hmmm... a drill guide may not be a bad idea after all!

Thanks for the feedback Pedro!

imxlr8ed
2013.02.28, 09:20 AM
I have recieved in my 599 Wing, MR03 Wide Tie Rods, Extreme Toe-In rods, and F1 Wing Set (front and rear). I mounted up the 599 Wing last night and I should have my own photos & review up very soon. (and a possible revision)

My Tie Rod set is in polished alumide (the first time I've tried this material) and so far, it seems ok but it doesn't seem much sturdier than the regular white and polished material. I will be conducting my own stress tests on these parts to get a more definitive answer.

chad508
2013.02.28, 09:30 AM
I ordered a few wings and the extreme tierod set as well. All in white polished. Hope to get them some to test.

Traveler
2013.02.28, 09:35 AM
I have recieved in my 599 Wing

I look forward to seeing Pedro's tomorrow! :)

I will be conducting my own stress tests on these parts to get a more definitive answer.

Sounds like fun. May I suggest a pair of pliers and a blow torch? :eek:

pedrocamp
2013.02.28, 10:58 AM
I fit a UID 2.9 Black to my Mosler for the upcoming CC race in MB. I have been running a Reflex polycarbonate wing. I had to slot the holes in the back deck to get the UID wing bolted on and shaved the posts for height and angle. It looks quite nice and after a "grab it like a gorilla" test seems to be durable... I would hazard to predict that it won't snap like a stock wing or pull the screws thru like a poly wing. It did add about 0.8g though, about 1g for poly vs 1.8g for UIG. My driving may be rusty so I may not have a performance review other than it stayed on my car during "the BIG one"!

imxlr8ed
2013.02.28, 12:07 PM
I am thinking of trimming the mounting posts on the 599 wing to ensure an even fit everytime. The posts were long so everyone could mount it the way they wanted to, at the height and angle they desired... I'm thinking that this is such a body specific wing that it should just be set one way. I'm really happy with how I got it mounted on mine but it took time and lots of light grinding, fitting, grinding, fitting, grinding, razoring, fitting... and then I got it where I wanted it.

The tesing will probably be based more on controlled bends until failure, and keeping track of what snaps when... I have a few in mind. I could easily see one of these tie-rods bending past 90 degrees before failure, but the overall strength is not what I'm worried about... I'm more concerned about the loop where the knuckle pin goes into it and as to whether or not it will deform in an accident.

egonzalez
2013.02.28, 08:12 PM
I like your designs and would like to suggest another useful idiot creation…A “ball diff cover”, like the old Xray cars had.. This provided extended runtimes between rebuilds and allowed the racers to concentrate on setup vrs rebuilding their diff. I practically never had to rebuild my diff. I have added a picture for reference. Keep up the good work.. :)

imxlr8ed
2013.03.01, 06:51 AM
Excellent idea! But...

It would be better suited to lexan IMO. Then there's the issue of all the different disk sizes, spur gear shapes and sizes. I'll definitely look into it though.

arch2b
2013.03.01, 07:10 AM
i can see where that might be a time savings for larger scales but i doubt many really go through all that for mini-z on a regular basis. i'm guessing maybe 10% of the entire hobby which are the serious competitive racers. with weight such a concern with this group, i wonder if they would trade added unsprung weight? to skip maybe 1 or at best 2 diff cleanings.

ed brings up the other problem as well, all the 3rd party guys are making their spurs to their own specs vs. a unified spec so most are not the same thickness, edge detail, etc. too much variation to account for.

imxlr8ed
2013.03.01, 08:52 AM
Sorry I didn't get time to get my pics up last night... I will try again this weekend.

I have messed with my first dye job on one of my parts (just some black shoe dye I had laying around) and it seemed to go pretty well. The bumper I did just went for dip number two, should be dry by tonight.

arch2b
2013.03.01, 08:57 AM
try RIT? i understand that's been used for a long time to dye plastic rc parts.

imxlr8ed
2013.03.01, 09:16 AM
I wanted to try RIT but this stuff was already in "stock" in my "shop". ;)

Polished or un-finished... no problem dyeing these parts! Sure beats trying to get a pen tip into every little nook and cranny!

arch2b
2013.03.01, 10:09 AM
does the dying process add measurable weight? i understand the material is very porous.

imxlr8ed
2013.03.01, 11:42 AM
I'm gonna ban you from my threads Ray for askin all this high-tech stuff! :mad: ;)

I'm just mad that I didn't get my own weights figured yet... been meaning to stop by a head shop and pick up a scale, I just don't get into those parts of town as much anymore. :rolleyes:

You're right... maybe soaking the parts does add weight but once it fully dries out it's probably not very measurable.

arch2b
2013.03.01, 11:45 AM
i doubt it makes a measurable difference as well. :p just wondering as fov's reports of painting indicate these suck up copious amounts of paint. i'm sure the polished material has a denser surface porosity as well.

imxlr8ed
2013.03.01, 11:50 AM
When I drop polished vs. un-polished into the dye bowl... they both drink it up at the same rate. Basically watched the surfaces above the ink-line for a few seconds, the ink traveled about the same speed for both.

imxlr8ed
2013.03.21, 12:59 PM
Just wanted to let everyone know that I haven't disappeared, I am still on OT this week so I haven't had much time to get back to some of my current part design revisions. As far as parts coming down the pike, the F1 Display Chassis is still in the works and it's getting closer to where I want it to be but it may not be out for another month maybe? I do still squeeze in some racing though (amen;)) but I'm hoping to get a bit more trigger time at the design station in the next two weeks because I will be back on a regular work schedule then.

imxlr8ed
2013.12.24, 01:51 AM
I have much testing in my future!

Here's where I'm heading with the F1 lately, figured I'd throw out a premature post here to get some input from you solid racers out there.

First up, there's this basic replacement part. This will use the standard sideplates/springs type Kyosho design but there will be screw mounts for the motors as opposed to those shims we all know and love. Also, I've limited the motion of the motor to the upper gearings only (I don't recall too any 6 tooth gear races with my F1 ;)). Sorry for the picture quality, but at least they aren't blurred spyshots. Take a looksie:

http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/members/39998-albums747-picture4347.jpg

http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/members/39998-albums747-picture4352.jpg


Then there's this hideous contraption that stepped a bit out of the box and slapped hard on the concrete and lost it's sideplates:

http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/members/39998-albums747-picture4349.jpg

http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/members/39998-albums747-picture4350.jpg

http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/members/39998-albums747-picture4351.jpg

Have had this on my mind for a while, not conventional by any means but if a chassis design is gonna give me lemons I will make lemonade (no room for real cool suspension stuff in these F1s). This one is screw type as well. And yes, I do realize that one will have to remove the diff to set the motor position but there are ways around this that and I will discuss further once these get rolling. For this version, I'm centralizing the pivot material because I feel that it is optimal for any straight axle vehicle. For my testing, I have different versions of the plates ready to go so the finals may change a bit.

These are not in my shop, these may not be in for another month but I can guarantee they are gonna be an excellent value for us budget racers out there!

All opinions will be read thoroughly... thanks ahead of time!

quazster
2013.12.24, 07:03 AM
Very interesting.

About the "upper t-plate design". When you accelerate, the rear end wants to raise rather than squat down, so massive anti-squat is present. Also when cornering and coming out of the corner accelerating the rear wants to straighten out rather than squat down on the outer tire. Also the roll center is super high.

I'm a bit sceptic that this works, but on-track tests can prove me wrong of course :-)

imxlr8ed
2013.12.24, 07:59 AM
Correct... But I didn't think that calling it the "Massive Squat Mount" would'nt have been too good for sales. :D

I'm not entirely showing my full hand here, there is a simple fix for this but I'm not entirely sure how I want to retain the spring yet. To remind everyone, I'm a big fan of trimmed earplug foam for suspensions too, so it's not a far stretch to rule that out either.

Currently, there is enough space between the top plate and the top of the motor to allow full articulation of the mount, although if less is desired it reall won't take much to run a droop stop screw through the top plate to contact the motor case.

Main goal with all of this is cheap, lightweight and usable.

quazster
2013.12.24, 08:11 AM
My biggest concern is the roll center height, it is above the center of gravity. This creates roll moment in the "wrong" direction, so that the chassis actually rolls inwards to the turn, not to the outside. There has been some 1:1 test cars made with RC higher than CG and the test drivers have reported the car to be really confidence inspiring up to the point when without any warning the traction is totally lost.

But yet again, with 3D printed parts it is easy and cheap to test this IRL on the track. I am eager to hear how this setup performs (or not) hehe.

imxlr8ed
2013.12.24, 09:12 AM
I'm eager too, more so about the tolerancing required for a perfect fit of the bearings though. I have a test strip designed just to find that magic number that is gonna let those buggers snap in tight and secure.

Once I nail that number, my F1 rims won't be too far behind these.

mleemor60
2013.12.24, 09:19 AM
My biggest concern is the roll center height, it is above the center of gravity. This creates roll moment in the "wrong" direction, so that the chassis actually rolls inwards to the turn, not to the outside. There has been some 1:1 test cars made with RC higher than CG and the test drivers have reported the car to be really confidence inspiring up to the point when without any warning the traction is totally lost.

But yet again, with 3D printed parts it is easy and cheap to test this IRL on the track. I am eager to hear how this setup performs (or not) hehe.

That effect has more to do with "Polar moment of inertia" than it does "roll couple"

quazster
2013.12.24, 11:05 AM
That effect has more to do with "Polar moment of inertia" than it does "roll couple"

Sorry, this goes a bit offtopic, but here goes :-)

Could you explain, I don't see how the torsional rigidity of the "suspension beam" has anything to do with the direction of chassis roll in when cornering. Only the location counts. This is basic dynamics 2D simplification, we are simplifying all the cornering forces to one vector pointing to CG and using the roll center as the only moving joint in the plane, and assuming it has some POI that comes from the cross section and lenght of the "suspension beam".

Of course the real 3D dynamics of cornering are way more complex but this simplification gives us easy way to analyze how the chassis is going to roll.

imxlr8ed
2013.12.24, 02:37 PM
There's all kinds off possibilities with the performance aspects here. I'm just thinking that the main issue with the rear is the overall softness side to side. Now I should be able to control it better. The up/down is still going to have to be figured out too. I need enough material in both motions to be fluid yet stable, and not have them counteract each other.

The sideplates have proven to be a similar challenge, even mine in a trimmed down state still counteract the roll attributes that are required. I do have another version of those in the works too, but I still feel that no matter what shape I come up with, the issue will still be there due to the inherent design of the chassis. I'll be the first to tell you guys if I don't like one of my own products and I can honestly say that I am still not happy with my own sideplates. I can get them to work but not without loosening or removing the center screws. This suspension idea should conquer that at least.

imxlr8ed
2014.01.02, 01:45 AM
Just to update... working on yet another version of a motor mount. I'm getting a bit obsessive about this but I think where I'm going now is something good. I'm still going to test the top-loader but I have a feeling it may not be where I want it to go.

Looking into a lower plate design now but trying to still give options up top while still retaining some stock form... hard to explain but I should have pics up soon.

imxlr8ed
2014.01.27, 11:42 PM
Bit of a tease but you may notice something different at the 4 corners...

http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/members/39998-albums747-picture4474.jpg

I'll be testing these before posting, lots of crash testing in my future.

(reminds me, I better order a few new chassis to break)

cowboysir
2014.01.29, 10:12 AM
For some reason I thought the material strength is affected by CA glue...am I wrong?

Seems like a great idea so I'll be interested to see weight comparisons.

imxlr8ed
2014.01.29, 12:47 PM
For some reason I thought the material strength is affected by CA glue...am I wrong?

Seems like a great idea so I'll be interested to see weight comparisons.

Correct, this is a porous material in so much as the material is laser sintered but the effect of the melt is only consitent to a certain scale. If CA is applied it will take the flex out by filling those incosistencies and making them more brittle.

This material, left untreated is the Jeet-Kune-Do of plastics (way of the intercepting fist). It'll take the punishment only because it can flex instead of break. I've never treated the material other than coloring it.

kyoshosan
2014.01.31, 11:04 AM
http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/members/39998-albums747-picture4474.jpg


Looking good :) Can't Wait

Racer-HH
2014.03.06, 12:06 PM
If I remember correctly you had plans for an "EX 10 antenna fixation / protection / support". As I do not see them online at Shapeways, I want to ask if you still work in these?!

imxlr8ed
2014.03.06, 04:06 PM
That was another designer on here somewhere. I would but if someone already did it, I try to respect that in most cases.

Found it...

http://www.shapeways.com/model/1152594/ko-propo-rc-radio-antenna-shield-ver4.html?li=search-results&materialId=76

Racer-HH
2014.03.07, 01:46 AM
Thanks for your help. That's what I was looking for.

Sorry for messing up the designers of the product though.

Racer-HH
2014.03.23, 07:29 AM
The formula display chassis just arrived on Friday. Although concerned due to the flex in the middle oft the chassis, the assembled chassis / body just site tight and good looking.

For pictures please look here: http://www.miniz-forum.de/f1-display-chassis-t22246.html

imxlr8ed
2014.03.23, 09:09 AM
Thanks for the review!

As long as everything fit up ok, I'm happy! As far as the flex, to keep material costs as low as possible, I took out some layers with the shellout. Maybe a bit of bracing internally with some glue and balsa wood?... Popsicle sticks? The stuff drinks superglue pretty well.

Perfect body for a first display! The Honda is still my favorite... the Panasonic would be my second choice.

Racer-HH
2014.03.23, 02:06 PM
Thanks. The Bitten Heros Jordan is my alltime favorite - unless some Red Bull F1 ASC are produced by Kyosho.
As stated, initially I was concerned, but after mounting everything it is just right. The flex does no harm, but could probably be fixed the way you supposed.
btw: the idea with the stick-on-rims is excellent! I always hate the way it is done with the standard ASC chassis...

arch2b
2014.03.23, 02:47 PM
looks awesome and fills a niche kyosho never did. excellent job ed.

are the wheels just press fit?

imxlr8ed
2014.03.23, 11:38 PM
Thanks guys!

Yep, press fit your rims and you're good to go. If you have any of those Autoscale outers, they should pop right in there to fill the void on the outer portion.

herman
2014.03.24, 03:16 AM
yep... i just love those jordan themed f1's... they are easier to spot on the track when i used to run them... just wish that kyosho would come out with more f-1's...

anyway i'm reposting my comments here (from the "display chassis for the f-1 thread"...)

looks pretty cool... my only comment is that maybe you could include a false "nut" that could be used on the outer rim to fill it in... to complete the look so to speak...

otherwise looks like a great product... hope to order some soon...
(maybe when you include the false outer nut?) :D

imxlr8ed
2015.02.04, 12:55 PM
I was going through some history with some of my parts last night and trying to define what needs to be done first. I'm guessing I should get the F1 display chassis back online but I can't seem to find the comments as to what mods it needed... I'll set it back up for now without the mods. I'm pretty sure I was going to slot the front holes for the wing mount adjustability.

Anyways... looking to get more racer parts up there soon! :D