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NoBrainer
2013.01.08, 07:13 PM
Hi Jesus
What is new in v1.12 build 12 since my firewall needs to allow the program??

zround
2013.01.09, 04:26 AM
Hi Jesus
What is new in v1.12 build 12 since my firewall needs to allow the program??

Configuration page in order to connect an external starting light system and/or a score board and new build ready for chinese translation (it is not translated yet)

Regards,

Jesus.

NoBrainer
2013.01.09, 04:30 AM
wow!

Thats awesome man!

arch2b
2013.01.19, 10:53 AM
Encountered an odd problem. The program installs but components are missing when running the software. When in championship manager editing an event the side bar menu in the driver screen is missing making it impossible to add drivers to the event. I've uninstalled an reinstalled but the menu bar remains missing.
Win 7 home edition computer

LED
2013.01.19, 04:57 PM
If I remember correctly we had the same problem on a new win7 laptop 2 years ago.
An update of graphical drivers fixed the problem, I think :-p

arch2b
2013.01.19, 05:36 PM
i can try that. i't certainly the computer and not the software as it works correctly on other win 7 boxes. just frustrating none the less.

you can see in this picture how the display is obviously not correct. i can't reach the bottom items on the event settings panel. the timer is off screen some. it does more odd things in the championship manager, like not getting the sidebar menu.

zround
2013.01.19, 08:19 PM
i can try that. i't certainly the computer and not the software as it works correctly on other win 7 boxes. just frustrating none the less.

you can see in this picture how the display is obviously not correct. i can't reach the bottom items on the event settings panel. the timer is off screen some. it does more odd things in the championship manager, like not getting the sidebar menu.

Please check if you are using "smaller" size of text. The graphics library I use can't manage larger settings as expected :(

Open Screen Resolution by clicking the Start button , clicking Control Panel, and then, under Appearance and Personalization, clicking Make text and other items larger or smaller.


Jesus.

arch2b
2013.02.17, 10:35 PM
i wanted to follow up on this to say i first updated the GPU driver, windows updates, etc. then changed the text to 'smaller' as suggested and the interface appears correctly. :)

NoBrainer
2013.02.18, 03:00 PM
I was viewing this thread -> http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38904
And then I come to think about you releasing the lights for starting.
Would it be difficult to make a schema for dragrace?
Like where you just have a strip and several cars and a startpoint and just count the from the light go off to a car passes the bridge?

A button for it's own so we don't mix them up, where you can go drag racing all night?

zround
2013.02.18, 07:18 PM
i wanted to follow up on this to say i first updated the GPU driver, windows updates, etc. then changed the text to 'smaller' as suggested and the interface appears correctly. :)

Thanks for your feedback!!

zround
2013.02.18, 07:30 PM
I was viewing this thread -> http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38904
And then I come to think about you releasing the lights for starting.
Would it be difficult to make a schema for dragrace?
Like where you just have a strip and several cars and a startpoint and just count the from the light go off to a car passes the bridge?

A button for it's own so we don't mix them up, where you can go drag racing all night?

You can setup a "Le mans" start mode race with 1Lap duration and count first lap detected as explained here http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38856

When the lights go off race starts and when the cars are first detected race is stopped just as you want.

Regards.

Mike Keely
2013.03.13, 07:46 PM
I was wondering if a different form of qualifying could be set up. Instead of a 1 fast lap style could you make it your personal best three consecutive laps?

arch2b
2013.03.13, 07:59 PM
i would like to suggest a configuration panel for scoring qualifiers in general to allow for many more possible scenario's in which many rank/score for qualifying.

at the very least, provide an option to set the number of best laps to average and score/rank. :p

zround
2013.03.13, 08:02 PM
I was wondering if a different form of qualifying could be set up. Instead of a 1 fast lap style could you make it your personal best three consecutive laps?

The "best time" criteria uses only the best lap. If you run several rounds you can get the n-best rounds but not the n-best consecutive laps in the same round.

In pre-qualify round you can set the overall best n laps but not consecutive.

Best regards,

Jesus.

arch2b
2013.03.13, 08:18 PM
is it possible to add that possibility to the qualify setting panel? we run only one round of qualifying and the desire is to get an average based on x number of best laps in either a fixed time period or fixed number of laps. we make do right now with best lap setting but it's not ideal for only 1 round.

zround
2013.03.14, 04:25 PM
is it possible to add that possibility to the qualify setting panel? we run only one round of qualifying and the desire is to get an average based on x number of best laps in either a fixed time period or fixed number of laps. we make do right now with best lap setting but it's not ideal for only 1 round.

I could add a wider best lap qualify settings:

- Number of best laps to compute
- Qualify Algorithm (Sum, Average)
- Consecutive (yes/no). It will be used to compute the algorithm on overall best laps or consecutive laps.

It will work for Mr. Keely too.

Your suggestion is on my to-do list.

Regards.

arch2b
2013.03.14, 08:01 PM
awsome, look forward to it's release when you get to it.

Mike Keely
2013.03.15, 08:54 AM
Thank you Jesus.

zround
2013.03.19, 08:58 PM
awsome, look forward to it's release when you get to it.

There is available an update for testing the new best lap qualify options. You will find a button close to the qualifying mode to open extended best lap options.

http://www.zround.com/image/minizracer/BestLapOptions.PNG

There are three settings as suggested:


Number of laps to compute
Method (Sum/Average)
Analyze only consecutive laps (yes/no)


Download test versión: http://www.zround.com/request.php?50

The "consecutive" laps control introduces some complexity (development and real time classification sort) but I think my implementation is good in performance.

The n-best laps used to qualify are marked in purple into the lap times view.

Arch2b/Mike, could you please give it a try? It should work flawlessly but ... it is a first try. I have just had time enough for developing but not for testing in deep.

Thanks in advance,

Jesus.

arch2b
2013.03.19, 09:19 PM
awsome, bummer... :( link takes me to an error page

http://www.zround.com/download.php?error.50.1

zround
2013.03.20, 03:26 AM
awsome, bummer... :( link takes me to an error page
Ouch!! Permission issue. I placed the download into a restricted area. Now it works.

zround
2013.03.25, 04:43 PM
Ouch!! Permission issue. I placed the download into a restricted area. Now it works.

Hi, could you download it and test it out?

arch2b
2013.03.26, 01:53 PM
i downloaded the file. DC club races once a month however. Remnant races frequently but i can only make it once, twice a month at best. i reminded mike to try it :) he is there more often than i am.

zround
2013.03.26, 02:10 PM
i downloaded the file. DC club races once a month however. Remnant races frequently but i can only make it once, twice a month at best. i reminded mike to try it :) he is there more often than i am.

I understand. Thanks in advance for your help testing the new feature. I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Jesus.

Sinister_Y
2013.03.27, 08:23 AM
Maybe we'll use it for our 2 hour endurance race this weekend. Originally I had planned for one fastest lap, maybe 3 is better.

arch2b
2013.03.27, 08:39 AM
single fastest lap has proven itself to be an ineffectual indicator as nearly anyone can by chance obtain the fast lap and does not pair drivers well by skill. the introduction of these options requires a skill component to obtain a series or consecutive fast laps, a better indicator of skill. we are very happy to have these added functions :p i just have not had the opportunity to put them to use yet.

Sinister_Y
2013.03.27, 09:08 AM
We base our system of qualifying for F1 classes on single fastest lap just like the real F1. However, your point is a good one. That is why we'll try probably a 3 lap window.

arch2b
2013.03.27, 09:11 AM
we haven't raced F1 in ages :( i'm sure we would be doing the same thing if we were.

Mike Keely
2013.03.27, 05:15 PM
I have it on my flash drive now. I hope to run it tomorrow. Thanks MK

Mike Keely
2013.03.30, 09:19 AM
I only downloaded the shortcut last time. I will try it again today. Sorry for the delay. MK

arch2b
2013.03.30, 09:34 AM
sorry i couldn't make it today for trials. i have the last of some honey-do tasks to complete :p

Mike Keely
2013.03.31, 08:55 AM
We tried it today. We set it for consecutive and 3 laps. It said that everyone's first 3 laps where the fastest but that was not the case. Everyone had a set of 3 faster consecutive laps later in the heat. After the first 3 laps each lap showed as a very bad lap. Each lap would add onto the last so each lap was showing as a even worst lap. Here is a sample of how the laps would show, 1:04.75, 1:11.22, 1:17.85, 1:24.31. By the end of a 5 minute heat the last few laps were in the 4 minute laps, 4:45.12, 4:52.43. I should have taken a picture of the screen. The next time by the track I will take a picture. I hope this will help.

Sinister_Y
2013.03.31, 09:05 AM
We used fastest 3 laps by sum and it worked fine for our enduro qualifier. We did not try the other modes yet. We validated using multiple instances of zround companion and manually added up the fastest laps. (many racers use this at our track)

Good job.

The only thing i would suggest in the printout is that guys still want to see their fastest single lap. Right now it shows "best time" as the sum.

Also, i would suggest programming the mode instead of mean if possible. Also is that arithmetic mean or maybe midrange for the current option? Mean can be a couple of things depending on the group discussing it. Midrange is simply taking highest and lowest time and dividing by two. The mode would be the most frequent number. In this case, you'd have to consider what decimal place precision for the logic to be possible/meaningful.

arch2b
2013.03.31, 11:21 AM
...Midrange is simply taking highest and lowest time and dividing by two. The mode would be the most frequent number. In this case, you'd have to consider what decimal place precision for the logic to be possible/meaningful.
problem i see with this is, if you get tangled up, roll over, etc. it totally busts your midrange average.

zround
2013.03.31, 02:35 PM
We tried it today. We set it for consecutive and 3 laps. It said that everyone's first 3 laps where the fastest but that was not the case. Everyone had a set of 3 faster consecutive laps later in the heat. After the first 3 laps each lap showed as a very bad lap. Each lap would add onto the last so each lap was showing as a even worst lap. Here is a sample of how the laps would show, 1:04.75, 1:11.22, 1:17.85, 1:24.31. By the end of a 5 minute heat the last few laps were in the 4 minute laps, 4:45.12, 4:52.43. I should have taken a picture of the screen. The next time by the track I will take a picture. I hope this will help.

It seems I still need to work a bit on it. I will check the code and make test to have it working as expected. I will keep you informed.


The only thing i would suggest in the printout is that guys still want to see their fastest single lap. Right now it shows "best time" as the sum.

I agree, it's in my to-do list. The easiest / quickest way was to show the sum (used for sorting). Showing both values needs some extra work.


Also, i would suggest programming the mode instead of mean if possible. Also is that arithmetic mean or maybe midrange for the current option? Mean can be a couple of things depending on the group discussing it. Midrange is simply taking highest and lowest time and dividing by two. The mode would be the most frequent number. In this case, you'd have to consider what decimal place precision for the logic to be possible/meaningful.

I agree with arch2b about the Midrange. Regarding the mode, it could be implemented but I really think it won't be used so I will wait for more comments/requests about this feature before working on it.

Thank all of you for testing!

Jesus.

zround
2013.04.01, 03:24 PM
We tried it today. We set it for consecutive and 3 laps. It said that everyone's first 3 laps where the fastest but that was not the case. Everyone had a set of 3 faster consecutive laps later in the heat. After the first 3 laps each lap showed as a very bad lap. Each lap would add onto the last so each lap was showing as a even worst lap. Here is a sample of how the laps would show, 1:04.75, 1:11.22, 1:17.85, 1:24.31. By the end of a 5 minute heat the last few laps were in the 4 minute laps, 4:45.12, 4:52.43. I should have taken a picture of the screen. The next time by the track I will take a picture. I hope this will help.

Hi Mike, bug found and solved. I've run several tests (3 consecutive best laps) restaring the race, splitting/joining laps, etc. and it seems to work fine.

Latest download: http://zround.com/request.php?48

Best regards,

Jesus.

arch2b
2013.04.06, 02:13 PM
No idea what I did wring but I'm getting a lots of errors and weird results.

Trying to figure it out but racin to so can't get into it in greater detail right now

zround
2013.04.06, 05:33 PM
No idea what I did wring but I'm getting a lots of errors and weird results.

Trying to figure it out but racin to so can't get into it in greater detail right now
Any information you could send me will help. Screenshots, log files, .... Even better if you send me you "Datos" folder zipped.

Jesus.

arch2b
2013.04.07, 09:33 AM
didn't see this before leaving the track so all i have are pictures. track is an hour away so not getting back there till next race day.

here are the pictures.

after setting up the new event in championship manager with qualifying by bes time with additions setting to 3 laps, average, consecutive. checked in the first qualify group and the zr1 message appeared.

as soon as i clicked ok, zr2 message appeared.

as soon as i clicked ok, it returned to the screen with the red error message in zr3. i confirmed the driver which wasn't greyed out was in the registration database. i edited the properties to confirm the transponder number was correct. asn simply proceeded.

as soon as i the cars passed the loop the first time i got the following pop up messages in zr4. i quickly clicked ok and the screen jumped back to showing all the laps that had transpired since the clock started.

i can't claim to fully understand how the software calculates the data and sorts live on the for averaging best lap times but i did not understand what i was seeing at all in zr5.

likewise, when qualifing was completed and heat sorted i checked the qualifying results in championship manager as seen in zr6 and did not understand what was being displayed either. for the first 3 there are bestT times that could be averaged best 3 consecutive laps but the bestL numbers are incomprehensible and the bestT numbers for the balance of the drivers was not consistent with what the first 3 were showing.

also note in zr4 and 5 that no lap data is displayed in the right side menu area. i had no way of seeing what the lap times were that were being selected for averaging.

it may well be user error :rolleyes: it may not. this is why i'm asking here :p i have HFAY next weekend and really need to get this qualifying setup down by then.

additional questions;
1. in setting up qualifying heats, classifications, what is the purpose for 'qualify the best _ series'? likewise, what is the purpose for 'qualifying algorithm'? 'qualifying mode already includes options for method.
2. in setting up mains, classification, what is the purpose for 'qualify the best _ rounds'? what is the purpose for 'qualifying algorithm'?

there is some debate as to how these should be set and want to get some clarity on what precisely these are meant to do.

as always, thank you for your assistance and attention to user issues :)

arch2b
2013.04.07, 09:35 AM
limited to attaching 5 images at a time so here is zr6.

i'm inclined to uninstall zround completely and reinstall 1.12.15. what files/folders must i save in the datos folder to keep the registration list and race championships? i would really like to start over with a clean slate in case there was an issue in the install.

zround
2013.04.07, 01:48 PM
it may well be user error :rolleyes: it may not. this is why i'm asking here :p i have HFAY next weekend and really need to get this qualifying setup down by then.

additional questions;
1. in setting up qualifying heats, classifications, what is the purpose for 'qualify the best _ series'? likewise, what is the purpose for 'qualifying algorithm'? 'qualifying mode already includes options for method.
2. in setting up mains, classification, what is the purpose for 'qualify the best _ rounds'? what is the purpose for 'qualifying algorithm'?

there is some debate as to how these should be set and want to get some clarity on what precisely these are meant to do.

as always, thank you for your assistance and attention to user issues :)

You can try to reproduce the error at home but hitting function keys simulation car passing. To do it, create a test race with the setup you want, register some racers and play with some rounds to see all work as you expect.

It seems some inconsistency with ZRound data files and the database. ZRound saves the results in database and also in text files. They are read when the round is started and if there are lap times of racers that don't belong to the round then that error messages can be thrown. It shouldn't be seen unless you delete racers from a round after it has been run and after that you start the race again.

Regarding your questions, the purpose of those settings is to compute the n-best rounds and the algorithm decides how the computation must be done. It is implemented for qualifying based on number of laps/total time, if you use best-lap criteria then the best round result will be used always (I know I should disable the n-best options to avoid confussion).

For example, if we have these results for a qualify with three rounds:

Round/Racer/Laps/Time
#1 Jesus - 28 - 5:03.244
#1 Mike - 27 - 5:06.736
#2 Jesus - 27 - 5:00.081
#2 Mike - 27 - 5:10.532
#3 Jesus - 27 - 5:10.391
#3 Mike - 28 - 5:01.327

You will have different sorts based on the rounds to consider and how to compute the sort.

Best 1 round (Mike wins):
#1 Jesus - 28 - 5:03.244
#3 Mike - 28 - 5:01.327

Best 2 rounds/Sum (Jesus wins):
Jesus: 55/10:03,3
Mike: 55/10:08,1

When using points instead of sum/avg the racers earn points in every round based on their position. You can define different points schemas for heats and mains. The computation is done by adding the points earned in every round instead of adding laps/times.

The implementation for n-best round / best-time criteria is another thing in my to-do list as nobody uses it. Let me know if you need it in order to prioritize the development.

limited to attaching 5 images at a time so here is zr6.

i'm inclined to uninstall zround completely and reinstall 1.12.15. what files/folders must i save in the datos folder to keep the registration list and race championships? i would really like to start over with a clean slate in case there was an issue in the install.

You need to make a full copy of the "Datos" folder to replace the files after a fresh install if you want to have all your results/settings restored.

As the problem seems to be in the data you won't solve the issue resintalling from scratch.

I think the issue is not related to the new feature. However, I would like to check your data to be sure. Please send me the "Datos" folder zipped when you can.


Jesus.

arch2b
2013.04.07, 03:09 PM
it's not easy to understand the data displayed in terms of relevance to configured sorting methods. i wish i were able to explain it in a more informed manner. trouble is, i don't fully understand what some of these features are meant to do thus cannot measure against expectations. i fully understand this falls under 'user error' :p the times displayed when configured for sum/average of best times doesn't illustrate individual lap times nor which qnty or consecutive laps were used.

in this event, no drivers were deleted or added after rounds sorted and started. we went right from setup to go and the images of errors were the results. i am not local to the track but will ask a local to zip and email me the datos folder to me. we did copy back the contents of the back up copy of datos to the 1.12.15 installation in case something would be lost or overwritten.

what is the purpose to the classification options within main setup? is this to alter the sorting of mains for purposes of determining who bumps?

zround
2013.04.07, 06:41 PM
it's not easy to understand the data displayed in terms of relevance to configured sorting methods. i wish i were able to explain it in a more informed manner. trouble is, i don't fully understand what some of these features are meant to do thus cannot measure against expectations. i fully understand this falls under 'user error' :p the times displayed when configured for sum/average of best times doesn't illustrate individual lap times nor which qnty or consecutive laps were used.
Now the print out generated by ZRound will show colored the best laps used to qualify and they are shown in purple background on the lap times panel. But I agree, it is not enough.

As Sinister_Y suggested I should add the classification best-time and the individual best lap time in separate fields. Classification best-time should show the result of computation (avg/sum of n-best laps) and which lap numbers were considered ... But I need some time to make the changes.


in this event, no drivers were deleted or added after rounds sorted and started. we went right from setup to go and the images of errors were the results. i am not local to the track but will ask a local to zip and email me the datos folder to me. we did copy back the contents of the back up copy of datos to the 1.12.15 installation in case something would be lost or overwritten.
OK. It will help a lot.

what is the purpose to the classification options within main setup? is this to alter the sorting of mains for purposes of determining who bumps?

If you have mains with several rounds then you must define how to compute the winner. Usually it is not used bump-up because you should run all rounds of a main in order to know who wins and bump-up to the next.

The example of my previous post can be applied to mains too.

Jesus.

arch2b
2013.04.07, 07:17 PM
when would multiple rounds of mains be used? i've never encountered an event that has used this and curious why that is done?

zround
2013.04.08, 06:15 AM
when would multiple rounds of mains be used? i've never encountered an event that has used this and curious why that is done?

For example, 1/12 & 1/10 IFMAR Electric class regulations define three separate races for Main A and, at the organizer's discretion, two for lower finals. ZRound is not used only with MiniZ :p

Our friends from Czech republic use to race three rounds in mains too (see http://www.rcteam.cz/rcteam_en.php)

They are only examples, the feature is used a lot out there.

arch2b
2013.04.08, 08:56 AM
thanks, not suggesting it's not needed. just wasn't aware that it was used with Mini-Z racing :p

arch2b
2013.04.15, 02:06 PM
tested 1.12.15 again, with less options selected for qualifying and still got very unexpected results. this time i grabbed the datos folder and will be emailing it to you :cool:

this time simply choose 3 laps, average. for whatever reason it sorted in what appears to be reverse order for mains. those with more fast laps were sorted to lower mains. :confused:

zround
2013.04.15, 06:57 PM
tested 1.12.15 again, with less options selected for qualifying and still got very unexpected results. this time i grabbed the datos folder and will be emailing it to you :cool:

this time simply choose 3 laps, average. for whatever reason it sorted in what appears to be reverse order for mains. those with more fast laps were sorted to lower mains. :confused:

Thank you :o. I will check your data and keep you informed. I have made more tests flawlessly ... I'm curious about the issue. :eek:

Regards.

arch2b
2013.04.15, 07:04 PM
don't hesitate to tell me if i made a mistake :p it's not beyond the realm of possibility that i did something wrong.

NoBrainer
2013.04.16, 07:01 AM
Jesus
I think the resultspages in 1.12 build 14 is missing general date for when the qualify or main was.
It would be cool to have the date on the top so you know if it was on friday or sunday you drove Q1 PanCar.
Could you please add the date to the results page?

NoBrainer
2013.04.26, 10:08 AM
Is it possible to increase the bits per second for the seriel port for Robitronic or will that break the connection?
Will an increased bits per second shorten the length from passing under the bridge until the sound for passing comes?

Since it's default 9600 and I thought that if we increased it to 128000 it might just respond faster. So that both the lap times and passing sound would come faster.
Right now the on a 10s track, the sound and lap times show up after 2-3s and then the car is "far" away from the bridge.
I can test this on monday. But I wanted to hear from you if it's possible.

It's the same with Lap-Z.

zround
2013.04.26, 06:25 PM
Is it possible to increase the bits per second for the seriel port for Robitronic or will that break the connection?
Will an increased bits per second shorten the length from passing under the bridge until the sound for passing comes?

Since it's default 9600 and I thought that if we increased it to 128000 it might just respond faster. So that both the lap times and passing sound would come faster.
Right now the on a 10s track, the sound and lap times show up after 2-3s and then the car is "far" away from the bridge.
I can test this on monday. But I wanted to hear from you if it's possible.

It's the same with Lap-Z.

I don't own a decoder for testing. Robitronic works at 38400bps and I think it won't work at higher speeds.

Regards.