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RFick73
2013.02.19, 11:28 PM
Well, everything has almost been put together so I think it's about high time that I post up what I have been working on...

BC Mini-Z Club 2013 Points Series

Classes:
GT1/Unlmtd RWD: FET/Open Motor & Tires
GT1/Unlmtd AWD: FET/Open Motor & Tires (Merge with RWD if less than ~5 entries)

GT2/Pro RWD: ~40-50 Turn Motor, Rubber tires

GT3/Stock RWD: ~70 Turn/Kyosho Stock Motor, Allowance for Upgraded Suspension, Rubber Tires
GT3/Stock AWD: ~70 Turn/Kyosho Stock Motor, Allowance for Upgraded Suspension, Rubber Tires (Merge with RWD if less than ~5 entries)
<Edit-Addition Feb 20 @ 5:34am*>
*The Club has a handfull of drilled stock motors we can give out to people if needed. Just come help setup or teardown & you can have one. :cool:
</Edit>

F1: 50 Turn Max, Rubber Tires


Points Breakdown:
1st - 20
2nd - 15
3rd - 11
4th - 8
5th - 7
6th - 6
7th - 5
8th - 4
9th - 3
10th - 2
11+ - 1


Rules & Regulations:
Rules for points scoring is pretty straight forward:

1) All races must have a minimum of 4 entrants to qualify for a points race
2) No Points for DNF (Entrants must finish last laps within 1 min of end of a race)
3) Cars have to pass a "Technical Inspection" by the Race organizer or their designate
4) For the same chassis to be eligible in multiple classes the motor must be swapped out for something at least one class away from it's previous class running.
IE: If you run in GT2, you must change to a GT3 motor or a 40 or under turn & class restrictions still apply.
If you have one Chassis & a Stock & ~40-50 Turn Motor you could run the Stock motor in the GT3 Class, the ~40-50 Turn in the GT2 Class & then put the Stock Motor back in & run the GT1 class with it.
You can only run GT3 & GT1 with the Stock motor if you swapped out to the ~40-50 Turn & also ran in the GT2 class.

Some motor turn breakdowns:
Kyosho Stock 70
X-Speed 49
PN Racing "Speedy NM" 47
Atomic Stock 47
PN Racing "Fet Stock" 45
PN Racing "S02" 39
PN Racing "S03" 39
PN Racing "S01" 37
PN Racing "Saber" 35
PN Racing "S04" 35
Atomic Chili Evo 35
PN Racing "Anima" 33



GTG Schedule:
9-10:30 Track Setup
10:30-1:00 Open Practice & Racing
(Order Pizza around 12-12:30)
1:00-1:15 GT3 RWD 5 Min Qualifier & 7 Min Race
1:15-1:30 GT3 RWD 5 Min Qualifier & 7 Min Race (Merge with RWD if less than 5 entries)
1:30-1:45 Open Practice
1:45-2:00 GT2 RWD 5 Min Qualifier & 7 Min Race
2:00-2:15 Open Practice
2:15-2:30 GT1 AWD 5 Min Qualifier & 7 Min Race
2:30-2:45 GT1 RWD 5 Min Qualifier & 7 Min Race (Merge with RWD if less than 5 entries)
2:45-3:00 F1 Practice
3:00-3:15 F1 5 Min Qualifier & 7 Min Race
3:15-~4:30-5 Track Breakdown



I will edit this post as needed so watch it for changes.
I will attempt to annotate any changes and make a post stating there were some make.

Questions & comments etc are always welcome so post um here if you got um!

RFick73
2013.02.19, 11:30 PM
Be on the lookout for this to start-up at the upcoming GTG in Newton on Sunday the 24th!

gctkaz
2013.02.20, 12:16 AM
Ryan, do you want to start a thread where we can post the setups we will use for each class? Only the pertinent details and none of the top-secret stuff, of course!

I have machines ready to use for Stock RWD, and perhaps GT2 RWD. Am I allowed to enter GT2 with a 60T motor? I could use the same setup for GT1 too if you need more entrants.

edit: Nevermind, just read your entry requirements more carefully. Looks like I ought to pick up a PN 50T for myself :)

RFick73
2013.02.20, 07:31 AM
Ryan, do you want to start a thread where we can post the setups we will use for each class? Only the pertinent details and none of the top-secret stuff, of course!
I had thought about something like that.
Feel free to make a new `Setups`thread and people can feel free to post their setups there, but I think you could hold off on it for right now.
I may put something together that we can all use so the layout is the same.

It may be text based or a fill in the blanks PDF file. I`ll work that out as I wanted to gather stuff like that to see what people are running these days...

Am I allowed to enter GT2 with a 60T motor?

You could enter the GT1 with that 60Turn Motor.
Honestly, I hadn`t seen any 60Turn motors anywhere online so I skipped them.
We could make a change to include them somewhere, what motor is it, so I can add it to my list.. And if anyone notices any I have missed, please let me know.

cowboysir
2013.02.20, 11:25 AM
The biggest point of this is to create a separation between "stock" cars and "mod" cars that would fit into GT2 and 1 classes.

This way we have a points series to make similar cars have fun with each other....without the insane closing speeds of mixed powered cars.

When it comes to the 60-90cm track GT1-2 will be close...the big track summer series is where the spec classes will make a huge difference.


We will also try to work on a gentlemans agreement about some sort of "flag" system. We all need to work on letting the leaders through if you're being lapped and I think we should discuss restarts when we have epic pile ups on the "go".

Thoughts?

TheSteve
2013.02.20, 12:14 PM
I doubt I will participate in the point series so I hesitate to post but will throw my 2 cents into the ring anyway.

-How is qualifying decided, is it total number of laps in the qualifying period or the fastest lap during the qualifying period.

-I think a point series is a great idea, are there enough people/cars/interest to have so many classes though when we have never had anything so official before.

-If a person isn't interested in the points series you have packed the afternoon so full you have pretty much excluded them from the event, as such there is no point in attending.

-I don't think there should be any restarts, part of racing is learning to start a race cleanly.

My post should not be taken in any negative way. I will fully support whatever the club as a whole wants to do. I just think the questions need to be asked.

cowboysir
2013.02.20, 02:20 PM
Thoughts?

Your opinions are very important...you have the most knowledge of our group in RC racing.

Qualifying standards hadn't been discussed. I've been in races where number of laps was standard and I've been in best time shootouts. I'd be amenable to either.

I think that we will likely combine AWD and RWD into respective GT classes. I can't think of enough people for each class but its good to just put it out there for the possibility.

RFick73
2013.02.21, 07:39 PM
-How is qualifying decided, is it total number of laps in the qualifying period or the fastest lap during the qualifying period.

I was thinking we will go with fastest lap as that is what we have always gone by if & when we use open practice as our qualifier for the races we run.

-I think a point series is a great idea, are there enough people/cars/interest to have so many classes though when we have never had anything so official before.

Well, honestly, that awaits to be seen.
I have always strived to please everyone. I know it can't be done, but by having the option of all the classes I have put together, It will surely cover everyone so there should be a little something for everyone.

-If a person isn't interested in the points series you have packed the afternoon so full you have pretty much excluded them from the event, as such there is no point in attending.

I can only half heartedly agree. It gives them down time to talk to the other drivers & work on their cars etc.. The schedule I have submitted is just a guideline.
It is a *IF* we had the option to run ALL the classes, this is what it would look like.

I honestly forsee us merging the GT1 RWD & AWD together, unless we have 5 AWD's that want to run GT1 etc, the same for the other classes. At first I just don't see us running them all. These vehicles cost $, and most of us just don`t have the money to own a chassis for each class or even the parts to swap out. I`m hoping people will get themselves what they are interested in & come out & be a part of it. It's our fist time running this. I am open to all suggestions & feedback on how it's run.

-I don't think there should be any restarts, part of racing is learning to start a race cleanly.

This outcome comes down to the response of the group. If that's what the brunt of the group want's then lets do it. But I'd be listening more for those guys that made it through unscathed say, woah, hey.. Let's do it again so I'm not so far ahead of everyone right off the get go!

My post should not be taken in any negative way. I will fully support whatever the club as a whole wants to do. I just think the questions need to be asked.

I appreciate the feedback & questions Steve. I can only hope you post more & others follow suit! :D

xmodcanuck
2013.02.21, 07:51 PM
I doubt I will participate in the point series so I hesitate to post but will throw my 2 cents into the ring anyway.

-If a person isn't interested in the points series you have packed the afternoon so full you have pretty much excluded them from the event, as such there is no point in attending.

-I don't think there should be any restarts, part of racing is learning to start a race cleanly.



If someone wasnt into the points, they could just race for fun, as long as their car meets the race requirements. As someone who is consistently fast, you Steve could race a stock car in the unlimited race and still win. Am i wrong to think that? You just cant race a fetted hot motor car in the stock race. Right? I think im lucky, i have enough chassis to race each class. Too bad i wont be there this time. Good luck.
And i agree, racing is racing. If the leader gets away with a fast clean start, let it ride. The rest will have to learn to start better.

DaveW
2013.02.22, 12:03 AM
It's great to see some ideas coming forward regarding the points series. (whether they want to participate or not, all comments are welcome).

If I was to pick quotes and respond to each - one at a time - I'd be writing a novel. :)


So here's my two bits worth.

Participation

I don't want people to be discouraged from coming out because they don't want to participate in the points part. This was a concern identified earlier.
If someone just wants to run for fun, then great, let them run. Their car must meet the entrance criteria just like the contestants.
I'm sure someone can manage the collected race results and remove those that are running "for fun".
Anyone vote for someone starting with "R"? ;)
Those extra cars could also attain the threshold for 5 racers for it to count. (I don't know if the rule will be 5 points racers or 5 cars on the track).

Qualifying

With a five minute qualifier I don't think it really matters whether it's # of laps or lap time. Pick one and keep it consistent.
Currently the "fast" guys usually start at the back of the pack. With the points racers I think they should start at the front with the fastest in the pole position working down to the slowest. After all the points guys then we lineup the "just for fun guys"

Restart

I'm agreeing with the "no crowd". If you get a clean get-away, more power to you. People in a pileup will blame the other guy but what the heck - there's not that may cars out there. Keep it clean.

We're just getting started and there's going to be growing pains along the way. I'm looking forward to having a go at it this on Sunday and see what happens.

cowboysir
2013.03.11, 01:35 PM
Due to the time change and our delayed schedule we were unable to host any of the catagory races this past GTG.

Of the people who did attend though there seemed to be some resistance to making cars meet catagory requirements.

I certainly don't want to force people to have compliant cars so I wonder if we should even bother?

We'll be having fun no matter what and on the 60-90cm track times really don't vary all that much among the majority...we just won't plan on having prizes for top finishers for a race season.

Please discuss....I'd like to get others thoughts.

gctkaz
2013.03.11, 02:31 PM
I like it, especially the stock class. If it weren't for this, I wouldn't have realized how fun it is just to drive with the stock Kyosho motor and that's what I used for most of the day including the 15-minute race. Derek you might still see me crashing into you now and then, but I think I'm becoming a better driver out of this.

I have enough chassis to have something to run in every class and I will be purchasing my own set of compliant motors, but maybe the club can keep a few motors to lend?

TheSteve
2013.03.11, 04:31 PM
Perhaps so many classes was just a little too ambitious off the start. How about a single class for now, maybe the only limitations should be a stock motor and 4 AAA nimh cells. I don't see any advantage to running an awd or foam tires so I say allow it all.
Do a point series based off the stock setup, no need to have prizes yet. That allows everyone to get a feel for a series, its easy to meet the requirements and doesn't take up too much time during the meet. If it goes well then when we start a new series we can probably add a second class, most likely the same specs but this time the motor choice is unlimited.

*while I'd like to see only true stock Kyosho motors allowed I realize a lot of people have aluminum motor pods, perhaps a PN 70 turn could also be used, assuming its not too much faster. Again just to make things easier for now.

DaveW
2013.03.11, 11:41 PM
Some good feedback here.
Thanks for all the effort that Cowboy and Rfick have put into this!

After having two gtg's and seeing what we could field for class racing, I'm going to have to agree that some changes should be looked at.

First gtg I wanted to gather some data for the new race setups on the computer but in order to get enough cars on the track with transponders I opened it to all cars. We had 2 timed events GT2 and GT3 but I think the field was pretty much the same each time.

This last GTG we went for a GT3 and only came up with 3 cars that qualified as stock - aborted and ran regular races.

Now where to go from here.

Perhaps two classes.

Stock Class
- Stock motor - I don't know how the PN 70T compares.
- perhaps the battery limitation Steve refers to???
- Tires - I'm on the border as sometimes each type has an advantage, but if we leave it open each person can wear whatever "sneakers" they want.

F1 class
- Lets give these "open-wheeled" guys some track time on their own.

What does everyone think?

*while I'd like to see only true stock Kyosho motors allowed I realize a lot of people have aluminum motor pods, perhaps a PN 70 turn could also be used, assuming its not too much faster. Again just to make things easier for now.

Just to note, I punched two holes in my Kyosho motor and now it happily lives in an aluminum mount.

gctkaz
2013.03.12, 11:44 AM
Just to note, I punched two holes in my Kyosho motor and now it happily lives in an aluminum mount.
I did this with my XSpeed for GT2, but I am having trouble tapping the holes and now it is both mangling my screws and also not holding that well. I have just placed an order for PN 50T and 70T motors which I hope to use for class racing. I'll be able to tell you how they feel next time.

RFick73
2013.03.13, 11:34 AM
I honestly don't think having all the classes that we made available is any kind of deterrent, it gives people something to shoot for with their setups.

No, I haven't been able to come out much due to my job changing my shifts to Sun-Thur so I havn't been able to get any feedback.
I have booked off the upcoming GTG date on March the 24th.
I think we will have another drivers meeting to see what peoples thoughts are on the points series.

If we don't have enough interest in a class, we won't run it. But let's keep it so we can push others to get a setup that matches so we can run it.

I'm fine with merging AWD & Rear or Foam & Rubber if there are not enough to run in the class. I'm hoping others will also see a challenge in a different class & get parts to be able to field there cars in that class too.

The club can help those out that don't have appropriate rubber/foam tires, or motors etc, I know I have a few that I am going to test this week & make available.

Keep up all the feedback, it's greatly appreciated!

Hope to see y'all out @ the track!