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View Full Version : Removing silicone from RCP smooth side


quazster
2013.07.02, 03:07 AM
So eventually this had to happen. We just flipped our track to start testing the smooth side and one of our club members was testing new tires. We have banned silicone tires but he didn't know that and drove around 200 laps with silicone fronts in AWD.

That 200 laps made the track almost undrivable with rubber tires. It is really awesome just how bad the grip is. Brand new PN/Kyosho rubber tires, or tires fresh out of lathe work for 5 to 10 laps and then the tire surface is slippery and glassy from silicone. If you turn the tires to get fresh surface they work again for 5 to 10 laps.

So this is just a warning for all you guys running smooth side and rubber tires, make sure that everybody at your club understand not to use silicone tires!

Any good tips on how to clean the track? I know that silicone is really hard to get rid of.

If we are able to "save the track" I'll report it here so it could help others if something like this should happen to them.

herman
2013.07.02, 04:05 AM
ugh... sorry to hear that happen to your track... i kinda read that situation happen to other tracks...
but haven't read about a particular "solution"....

can somebody post as to what tires have silicone in them? and what tires do not have silicone in them... and what tires are all "rubber".... or what tires are "rcp safe" (safe to use on rcp)

wondering what causes this phenomenon? hmm... here's my theory... friction heats up the tire, breaks down the silicone content in the tire, causing them to ooze out? why did they put silicone in the tires in the first place? and didn't they foresee this happening on rcp tracks?

hmmm.... maybe there's a conspiracy here... silicone was intentionally put in the tires... specifically to destroy or ruin rcp tracks... to push more rcp track sales?!?!?!?!
:D

quazster
2013.07.02, 04:35 AM
Silicone tires are good for carpet tracks. Don't know any other surface that they work good.

PN tires with silicone are labeled "CARPET" but there is no "warning" about silicone content. You just have to know how silicone tire feels.

I have heard that in bigger scales there are situations when silicone tires give really awesome grip. Really hard packed smooth clay is one of them. But even the clay track is ruined for rubber tires and after some time the only working tire is silicone one. This is why silicone tires are banned there too.

For rough RCP our process with new layouts has been first good vacuuming, then steam cleaning. This has been the best way to get the grip up fast, the track is really good after 1 to 2 days of driving.

For first aid we tried our good old steam cleaner, with low hopes. Well, it helped a little but only a little.

Now we are going to try pine soap, and citric acid.

Good tips are still of high value!

arch2b
2013.07.02, 06:48 AM
...hmmm.... maybe there's a conspiracy here... silicone was intentionally put in the tires... specifically to destroy or ruin rcp tracks... to push more rcp track sales?!?!?!?!
:D

or the flip side, to push more away from RCP. RCP doesn't make tires nor do the tire manuf. have a stake in RCP sales. if anything, they have been pushing to move away from RCP.

all the shops that sell RCP also know the headaches that come with dealing with Kittrich :rolleyes: Classic example of great product, poor distributor.

in all the years we've had tracks, i don't think we've ever really paid attention to what tires were used on them. it all makes sense though when you think about how the reports of track inconsistencies, etc.

on topic though, when we got our grey tile RCP track that was super slippery, we washed the entire track with brooms and a very mild dish detergent. it made a significant difference. never thought about steam cleaning a track. temp, moisture, humidity all play a very big part in track performance of any material.

cowboysir
2013.07.02, 09:22 AM
Grab a test piece and try using OxyClean/water solution...its probably the best stain remover i know of so you might have success pulling silicon out of your RCP.

herman
2013.07.02, 09:28 AM
hmm… good point, didn't see that angle... :D

on topic… any other tires rcp safe? kyosho tires i guess are safe (since i believe they are used in the in mini-z cup series in japan)... are there any atomic tires that are "rcp safe"? and any way of knowing that there is silicone in the tire? thanks for any replies… pretty sure that other rcp track owners are interested…

maybe for track owners who operate commercially, they can mandate track users to purchase a set of rcp safe tires, or hand out a set of rcp safe tires (& incorporate the price into the track rental rate??) just a thought. :D

hmm... what about setting up a special thread for this topic?

RCPMini-z
2013.07.02, 01:09 PM
I still have the contact information for the factory that manufactures the tracks. I will send them an email tonight, asking if there are any suggestions on pulling the tire silicone from the track surface.

arch2b
2013.07.02, 01:29 PM
thanks John. wish you were still running the show with distribution. :(

Draconious
2013.07.02, 01:47 PM
Some shoes use the same type of foam... likely also the silicon.
Google to find out what they use to clean such shoes.

dwight
2013.07.02, 03:39 PM
Ok try treating your tires with oil. Or try Windex. Or dish liquid and water and wipe the track a.d let it dry

lithium
2013.07.02, 04:07 PM
hello ,
we have the same problem and only wash degreaser and scrubbing and rinsing should al cleared water

http://imageshack.us/a/img802/6483/glh.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/glh.jpg/)

DanDan
2013.07.02, 07:05 PM
Ok try treating your tires with oil. Or try Windex. Or dish liquid and water and wipe the track a.d let it dry

I wouldn't do that. Some oils are silicone based and will be counterproductive when considering the OP's ultimate goal here.

Have you tried an industrial strength vacuum cleaner?

machgo5go
2013.07.02, 08:12 PM
Try wiping it with Simple Green on a small section to see if it picks up anything.
We always find some sneaky bastard try to one up with silicon tires and mess up the traction on any kind of surface.

herman
2013.07.03, 02:16 AM
I still have the contact information for the factory that manufactures the tracks. I will send them an email tonight, asking if there are any suggestions on pulling the tire silicone from the track surface.

or maybe changing the rcp composition to be "silicone" proof? (if that is possible)
nice seeing you here john. :D

quazster
2013.07.03, 04:25 AM
Well we managed to sort the problem. We did some research and based on that did some testing. Best non-toxic cleaner we found was tall oil soap.

Brake cleaner and all sorts of degreasers work really well too but they also affect the surface of the RCP and are toxic.

Basically we scrubbed the surface with tall oil soap and water solution, then right before we steam vacuumed the surface we scrubbed the surface again to make it wet to help the vacuum do its job.

Now almost all of the silicone is gone and the track is really drivable again. Based on our testing one good method to remove silicone is to scrub the affected areas with rubber tires (silicone sticks to the more stickier rubber tire surface), so again "plain ol driving" eventually cleans the little what is left in the track :-)

Oh and thank you everyone for your tips!

Picture from our "RCP cleaning lab test"

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1816/qhb6.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/i/qhb6.jpg/)

Time lapse video of the cleaning process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bvuRHPb6Pc&feature=youtu.be

:)

herman
2013.07.03, 09:50 PM
like the mythbusters lab... can you pls explain the bottles? hmm... pardon my ignorance, but what is tall oil soap? where do you get it? and isn't having oil in the soap going to make it... er more slippery? unless it is a soap specifically made for oil... kinda like tall, oil soap vs. tall oil, soap... :D

kinda like our philippine eagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Eagle) also known as the monkey eating eagle... is it a monkey eating an eagle? or an eagle eating a monkey?... :D

Pierro
2014.09.24, 02:49 PM
Hi Jesse!

Any information about this magical product? We have a track that we used to race with silicon tires on the smooth side and this product might be the key to get our track back again.

Currently, the track has been set on the rough side for 3 to four years now and we are all afraid of reversing the track because of this silicon.

quazster
2014.09.25, 03:33 AM
This is the product we used:

http://fromfinland.fi/en/havu-pine-soap.html

Don't know any other names or brands for this product, but there likely is some.

The most important thing was to wash the surface and vacuum the washing solution off while the surface was still wet. Pine soap doesn't dissolve silicone, but it removes it from the surface quite well, so you still have to remove the soap-silicone mixture from the surface because if you fail to do so, the solution just drys up and the silicone remains on the surface.

Just a reminder here is the video again where you can see what was the process we used for cleaning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bvuRHPb6Pc&feature=youtu.be

This doesn't clean the track 100% - but at least 85% so you should be able to race on the surface again, so the last bits of the silicone are removed by the rubber tires scrubbing the track.

BR,
Tuomas

herman
2014.09.26, 02:58 AM
that track looks huge... thanks for sharing... are there any other places wher you can get pine soap? how dong did it take to clean everything? did you use a special type of vacuum? - thanks in advance... :D

quazster
2014.09.26, 03:18 AM
We used

http://www.karcher.com/int/Products/Home__Garden/Steam_vacuum_cleaner/14393100.htm

It took us about one evening to clean the track once we figured out how to do it.

No clue on where you could get pine soap. You can also test other soaps by yourself and see how they work if you don't have pine soap anywhere.

Pierro
2014.10.05, 11:19 AM
Thanks for the link Tuomas!

I ordered a few bottle of this soap and now we'll need to check this out as we receive it.
I will keep you posted on our results.

Pierro
2014.11.03, 02:50 PM
Hi there!

We got the product and washed our track. We did it twice wich a special shampoo machine for carpet + vacuum right after this.

This indeed improved our track grip but we still have a lot of running ahead as the tires keep collecting the rest of the silicon still on the track.

We will try to constantly run PN tires for the moment. do you know if kyosho tires affect the track? I read somewhere they also contains a small amount of silicon but as I know you have had extensive tire tests...

Also, do you know a product that we can use as tire cleaner that won't kill our track? Some were considering the WD40 which I would personnaly avoid as it's oily. I would more use dry tissue or something that can dry out quickly. Any experience on this?

Tapir
2014.11.03, 03:44 PM
Kyosho tires contains silicone! Not much but enough to affect grip levels for pther tires.
That is the reason tracks where mostly Kyosho tires have been used grip is lower with real rubber tires (PN, rubber slot tires etc).

refsiul22
2014.11.04, 01:00 PM
Kyosho tires contains silicone! Not much but enough to affect grip levels for pther tires.
That is the reason tracks where mostly Kyosho tires have been used grip is lower with real rubber tires (PN, rubber slot tires etc).

Is this true? Can someone confirm please?
And if so, how come are they allowed in international competitions (RCP)? (i.e. PNWC)

At our club we run 30%/70% (kyosho/PN share) fronts and 60%/40% (kyosho/PN share) rears, but haven't notice any effect on rcp grip.

Thanks

lfisminiz
2014.11.04, 06:21 PM
I run mostly PN tires but run Kyosho 20 slick rears and 30 slick fronts on occasion and havent noticed a grip issue. Would like to know for sure also.