PDA

View Full Version : Help: Setup & PN Tires.


Tapir
2013.08.31, 05:06 AM
Hi guys.
For the last year most people around our track (smooth side) has used PN RSF15 front tires and RRR06 rear tires.
Amazing grip, and these have been the fastest tire by far. (ModGT cars)

The track shop ran out of RSF15 for a few weeks ago, but now they got a new batch from PN.
This new batch are not the same compound. They are harder than the 1301 RSF15, harder than the RSF20 and even harder than some older RXF25 I tried.

Some people still have the previous RSF15 left and they are so much faster now than what us others have to use.
On a 7 second lap it differs 2 - 3 tenth! Thats a lot over a 5 and 8 minute run!

What can be done to gain enough steering to be competitive again?

And PN: Are you coming out with all tires in different compounds now, so maybe the RSF10 can be used? These have been way too soft before, but maybe if the compounds are harder it can work?

Please advice:)

Edit: Forgot to tell. We are using MR-03's, both VE and regular. PN double a, tri dampers etc

arch2b
2013.08.31, 09:31 AM
this is actually not uncommon and a reason why most recommend stockpiling tires you know work. GPM used to be the king of the mountain till their batches were so far off almost no one buys GPM anymore. inconsistency in tire batches can cause real damage to a brand. in my opinion, i've had the best luck with kyosho tires in terms of consistency. it can't hurt to post the question on specific tire types regarding consistency of shore rating in the PN subforum and they have an answer and or are aware of the issue. i'm sure you are not the only one affected.

what are others that have been affected at your track changing to as a result? what choices can be eliminated for example. you may be back to zero needing to grab a bunch of stuff and go through the exercise all over again, which really sucks.

chad508
2013.08.31, 10:46 AM
i would run the rxf15. the x patterns tend to have a better grip than the slicks for me.

yasuji
2013.08.31, 12:28 PM
i have found that with the new front tires it takes a few packs to break in
and also requires a degree more camber in the front
with the 1301 i ran 1deg camber....2 degree was way too much steering and would traction roll with out even trying!
since the 1301 went out of stock we have been working hard to re create it and at the same time it is helping me to find different setups that can make it work!
i have found that running 2 deg camber to be as fast as the 1301 with 1deg:)

Tapir
2013.08.31, 05:24 PM
Thanks!
Regarding the tires needing some time before seating in, that is the same we have experienced.
Still they offer lot less grip than the 1301. A lot!

We have been seeing a lot of new members in our club this season, and it keeps on increasing. It is not good now to have people that have come over from other classes due to the fun and good price level that Z racing offer to suddenly have all kinds of setup issues. Demotivated members are the least thing that Mini-Z needs now.


I will definetly try incresasing the camber on the car to see i this can help some.

With double a, and 1 degree lower arms this would have the exentric positioned how?

yasuji
2013.08.31, 05:53 PM
Thanks!
Regarding the tires needing some time before seating in, that is the same we have experienced.
Still they offer lot less grip than the 1301. A lot!

We have been seeing a lot of new members in our club this season, and it keeps on increasing. It is not good now to have people that have come over from other classes due to the fun and good price level that Z racing offer to suddenly have all kinds of setup issues. Demotivated members are the least thing that Mini-Z needs now.


I will definetly try incresasing the camber on the car to see i this can help some.

With double a, and 1 degree lower arms this would have the exentric positioned how?

normally i run flats in... with the new tires i run flats up

Tapir
2013.08.31, 07:43 PM
this is actually not uncommon and a reason why most recommend stockpiling tires you know work. GPM used to be the king of the mountain till their batches were so far off almost no one buys GPM anymore. inconsistency in tire batches can cause real damage to a brand. in my opinion, i've had the best luck with kyosho tires in terms of consistency. it can't hurt to post the question on specific tire types regarding consistency of shore rating in the PN subforum and they have an answer and or are aware of the issue. i'm sure you are not the only one affected.

what are others that have been affected at your track changing to as a result? what choices can be eliminated for example. you may be back to zero needing to grab a bunch of stuff and go through the exercise all over again, which really sucks.

i would run the rxf15. the x patterns tend to have a better grip than the slicks for me.

normally i run flats in... with the new tires i run flats up

arch. The track shop does this, but some hundred pairs of tires usually goes trough to fast and to keep things level most people agree to change at rooughly the same time when there are batch changes. For bigger races its no problem because then people usually has some "only for big races stash" hidden away:)

There are not a single person in our club that has found the same speed with the new ones. A plus is that on the rough side they seem to work.

chad: Thanks. Will ask if its possible to get some of these in the shop. They threw away a lot of them because the previous they had just melted and when trued they were full of hard lumps inside the tires. Maybe the new ones are good so this can be an option.

yasuji: Thanks. Will definetly give it a try. Do you know if the 8 and 10 tires also will come in a harder compound this time? Maybe they could be worth a try.

Tapir
2013.09.10, 05:26 PM
A littlebit more steering found with adjusting the camber, but still these tires offer lot less grip than before.

Even on the rough side they are not good.

The new rear radial 6 are also lot less grippy than before.
This is something we have heard other clubs complain about also.

Why the change :(

Are there new tires coming in soon that are more like the old ones?

chad508
2013.09.12, 12:58 PM
I know on or track I was running the newest 6r and also the new 5r and they have great grip and last forever. Have kyosho tire been ran a lot on your track lately?

Tapir
2013.09.12, 01:32 PM
Our track have been using PN tires exclusevly for over 5 years, and since the track was new.

Never Kyosho or other brands of tire.

When the 1212 batch RRR06 ran out (they were very good), we changed to the new batch. Voila: Grip lasts only to the thread is gone.
The new 5's have also been tested with the same results. No grip after only a couple of 5 minute runs. The 1212 batch lasted until the spur touched the track and still do for those who have left.

With the new RXF15 and RSF15 front tires we again experience the same. Lot less grip than the previous batch and struggle all the way.

Lots of frustration with this.

DanDan
2013.09.12, 01:44 PM
No grip after only a couple of 5 minute runs..

This is exactly the experience I've had with the new PN6. Good for the first couple runs, after that absolutely no traction.

chad508
2013.09.12, 03:27 PM
do the tires appear to "glaze" over. i had this happen when we ran carpet but i could bring them back with a little scuff on a truer

DanDan
2013.09.12, 05:45 PM
do the tires appear to "glaze" over. i had this happen when we ran carpet but i could bring them back with a little scuff on a truer

I haven't had that issue with the rear tires yet. I've had that occur with the front tires in the past and found the same solution to be the remedy.

lfisminiz
2013.09.12, 08:52 PM
I will say the batch thats in stock right now is great. The 15 front slicks and X are also good.

Tapir
2013.09.13, 05:26 PM
I will say the batch thats in stock right now is great. The 15 front slicks and X are also good.

Strange! For modified?
Can you confirm the batch#?

Chad508: No glazing. The front tires just seems "dry" and hard. The rear tires are a bit strange, and dont come in as the 1212 and older batches.

lfisminiz
2013.09.14, 01:45 AM
Strange! For modified?
Can you confirm the batch#?

Chad508: No glazing. The front tires just seems "dry" and hard. The rear tires are a bit strange, and dont come in as the 1212 and older batches.

PN 6 degree radials (RRR06).

Tapir
2013.09.14, 04:49 AM
PN 6 degree radials (RRR06).

That I know, but what lot number?
They differ to the extreme, so that is why I'm asking.

RRR06, batch 1212 were supergood. These are still in stock many places but not at Kenon and our place.

lfisminiz
2013.09.14, 12:25 PM
That I know, but what lot number?
They differ to the extreme, so that is why I'm asking.

RRR06, batch 1212 were supergood. These are still in stock many places but not at Kenon and our place.

Ok, i see that # on some of my older packs (very good).
The new ones, the only other # i see is 9613080522. There is no # like the old packs.

quazster
2013.10.15, 08:49 AM
Unfortunately we have had very much problems with PN tire batches too.

The latest batch RRR06 is practically useless at the smooth side. And also some of the tires are not fully vulcanized. Look at these photos of attempt to true the tire to get some more grip.

https://7ypnpg.sn2.livefilestore.com/y2p0YpgmFT3d_cfHckrs9SMsdFz_NUtyrBogJ0b21g6PvBOlNR ate8jn_SLfgTZS0ugW33nI4U1NpXwHkywWvdC41wBlp8b1kdRX z3URTj99QDjsjJGZtJXAU_OP4gX0DCa/WP_20131014_004.jpg?psid=1

https://7ypnpg.sn2.livefilestore.com/y2p8fvi2uL1Y0D09yJ-_9KpJNDTJCpHhM_tnPb1FTfezpjbB94s1Z7ne4T7JNE-PFERP01OYb43ocmYsr83efUqTOWiInyXGyibC6WTn3AEcm-KdCMtCdAv2JUUZ9jJ20aQ/WP_20131014_001.jpg?psid=1

Normally PN6 rubber is totally trueable and I always true my rear tires. This is NOT normal.

RRR06 1212 was good batch, but there was quite a bit difference inside the batch from tire to tire - some where filled with air bubbles, and with these tires the grip was just insane, down to rim (as these are practically rubber foam tires). Some 1212 weren't as good as others, but at least the grip was there. Luckily I stocked these.

412059 batch (this is before 1212 batch) RRR06 are usable in stock only at the smooth side. Not usable in mod.

Bad problems with the previous RXF15 batch, some had weird hard spots inside the rubber appearing only after you have trued the tires. RRR08 tires, huge foaming sometimes. RRF08, some tires just glaze to the track, some really grip.

New batch 15 tires (RXF15 and S15), no grip at the smooth side. The difference as mentioned earlier here is immense.

It is just sad that I myself have tens and tens of bags of PN tires bought and these are just laying in my boxes because they are totally not usable. The money we spend for these small pieces of rubber just to find the perfect four is really too much. The manufacturing and packing costs for these tires must be around 0.10$ and I think it is pure ripoff to sell this kind of quality at these prices.

If you could depend on the tire to perform always and 15 deg tire to be 15 deg and 6 deg to be 6 deg, I would be willing to pay even double the money. It is sad to see new hobbyists struggling with their setups, because they yet don't have the necessary experience to doubt that the #6 tire that was working they just changed to new #6 tire isn't working to begin with.

TheRinger
2013.10.15, 04:59 PM
Had the same problem quaster. I don't buy PN tires anymore and haven't for a while. They are very inconsistent and when I trued a set of 15 fronts they did just like what happened to you. I stick with kyosho tires. They're always consistent and grip to my liking.

LED
2013.10.15, 05:28 PM
I only use atomic silicone tires. No need to buy a truer, no problem with bad rubber, no problem with the so called (yet to be proven) loss of grip due to silicone tires.

tlsotf
2013.10.15, 05:55 PM
Totally agree with LED.

quazster
2013.10.16, 01:15 AM
I only use atomic silicone tires. No need to buy a truer, no problem with bad rubber, no problem with the so called (yet to be proven) loss of grip due to silicone tires.

Bit offtopic, but here we go:

Well we have experienced first hand how silicone tires effect RCP surface and how it becomes undrivable with rubber tires.

You can do a simple test to feel the effects of silicone on RCP:

1. Take a RCP piece that you know hasn't been driven on with silicone tires
2. Put it on a table, turn the smooth side up
3. Take a silicone tire, scrub it back and forth on the surface around 20 times in line
4. Take note what place you scrubbed
5. Now slide your finger across the surface over the line you created by rubbing with silicone tires, you feel the slippy silicone instantly
6. Slide rubber tire on the surface, and you have the same effect, slippery on the spot where silicone was rubbed

Back on topic:

Silicone is really slow on RCP compared to best rubber tires. And I mean no contest slow.

But if everyone is driving with silicones it shouldn't matter, then you have even playing field. But the RCP track is ruined for rubber tires after that use.

I was thinking this tire issue and it is almost like throwing money to trash when you buy this kind of "quality". Think about it, we spend $4 per few grams of bagged rubber and then they can be totally useless straight out of the bag, when the next same bag is just fine. And I don't think that PN admits this and thus will never give any refunds.

Tapir
2013.11.10, 05:24 AM
Reports from Paris are that everybody changes rear tires after only one run, so I guess this is a problem now everybody has.

Come on. Make some good tires again:(

unearthed name
2013.11.25, 03:56 AM
funny, i just use PN R1106 parada tyre and they're great!!!! even greater than kyosho's 20 in our RCP track.

so far, we have no complain regarding PN tires.

tudor_47
2014.03.02, 04:12 PM
Bringing this thread back to life...

We are experiencng major tire problems at our club track... We are only using PN-tires and now with the new batches and rcp smooth side it is very difficult to get any speed in the cars, we are ,5 to 1 second slower, if not more. The tires are not consistent and we are now in a place were no combinations work, and a set of tires sets us back 40 swedish kronor (approx $6,2) so it is very frustrating to not be able to trust the tires, we also have long delivery times on tires..

please advice, should we all get Kyosho tires and if so wich ones?
Where do we get the kyosho tires from?

We run om RCP smooth side usually GT-modified cars and a few VE cars... At the moment the guys with the oldest tires gets best traction.

Tapir
2014.03.02, 06:26 PM
Finally more people experience this.

The new batch tires are on our 8 second layout at least half a second slower pr lap. No setup can counter this difference!

The new rear tires have a lot less grip than the old. 1212 etc.
The new 15 front tires have even lesser grip than before. 1301 is king. They almost feel dry after truing. Different truing speeds dont matter. They are slow!

The Kyosho tires are still even slower so for us this is not a solution.
People with old tires are just smoking everybody. Not good at all.

A couple of the fastguys are out of old rubber and really struggles with the griplevels. One of them borrowed some older batch tires from a guy here, and he said he had gotten into a bad rythm with his driving and really struggles to drive as fast as he can after a few months on the new tires.

arch2b
2014.03.02, 08:04 PM
sucks for our comrades over seas as the bad batches are still making their way thru the supply chain.

Tapir
2015.03.14, 07:51 AM
The urethane tires many stared using because of the bad batches are now forbidden in our club.
Many members got allergies from superglue. Some even quit becaudse of it.
The dust from urethane tires are causing athma and the dust is everywhere. Both supergluedust and urethane powder from trunig and using these tires.

Cleaning our clubhouse now. Glad the urethane is gone.

We had much improved lap times etc, but this is not worth it! Back to racing on equal terms.

Rubber tires are much improved so we are happy to use them now.

We hope other clubs take notice and follow this. New PNWC rules also say urethane tirs are fobidden. Good!