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View Full Version : UID F1 Camber Block Set...


imxlr8ed
2013.11.29, 10:13 PM
Been working this for maybe a little longer than I should have, but I'm really looking forward to testing this myself!

There is an inherent issue with all F1 chassis'... I haven't found one without it in all my measurements. I have dealt with this in a variety of ways over the years, but there was never any real control other than bending and heating and praying I ended up somewhere close to even, side to side.

Ever notice the awesome amount of turn-in these cars have?... ever see your front tires cone out after a few races?... I'm pretty sure it's all because of the positive camber these cars have out of the box.

So, go buy some cambered knuckles right?... well, that's fine but the camber is always better when it's built-in. My Jordan is a good example of that with the half degree of negative camber I tweaked into it. The car calmed down immediately after the mod, and the tire wear is much better over this past year. Much less twitchy down the straights and much more receptive to inputs in the corners.

It does involve some gentle grinding to get rid of the lower kingpin retainers to install, and maybe trimming a bit off the bumper mount posts on the bumpers. I have also installed an extra set of mounting holes if you just want to skip the bumper trim and just ream out the stock bumper holes to there full size. (then install with machine screws and wheel nuts)

It incorporates the tie-rod holder too for more rigidity and you'll notice in the model that there is a bit more beef added to the kingpin retainer. They come in a set of three, 0.5 degree, 1 degree and 1.5 degree. That's as far as I've ever went with any kingpin suspension in the past, but if I get requests for a 2 degree... I'm game.

Here's some low-res screenshots...

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=127&pictureid=1632

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=127&pictureid=1631

Here it is in the shop:

http://www.shapeways.com/model/1532353/f1-camber-block-set.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6

So, I'm putting this out here before tested just to get the word out and I will get a set tested before the New Year. My review will follow thereafter!

No fine print here, just the facts!
I am in no way, shape or form responsible for production or shipping or manufacturing quality of these products. All I can say is that it took 15 days to show up at my house after I ordered it and the quality is top-notch! Shapeways has an excellent record of part quality which is one of the major reasons I went with them for this stuff.

EMU
2013.12.06, 06:08 PM
One thing that changes when you incorporate the camber into the kingpin, is that your toe will change as the knuckle rises on the kingpin. On the F1 it will toe out as it rises, since the steering pin on the knuckle is in front of the kingpin. On the racers (MR02) it will toe in with the steering pin behind the kingpin. With the JPL bar (1.5d camber/.5d caster), I felt that if I dove into the corner too hard, as the suspension loaded, it would steer a little more than I wanted. Granted, my setup knowledge was much more limited then. But on the F1, it would indeed calm down the front end if entering a corner aggressively, and loading the front suspension abruptly...

I just checked out your shapeways shop :P Really neat stuff that I see there. Opens up new opportunities for basement racers to really customize their setups ;)

How do you think that this will differ than the old Mantis carbon towers that had camber/caster? Being that this is on the bottom compared to the top. Perhaps different tie rods will be needed to adjust toe appropriately with the caster being adjusted on the bottom of the kingpin opposed to the top?

All of my F1's (minus one) are all basically disassembled, and could use a rebuild... I may give this and some of the other UID parts a try. Although, I don't know that I will see a track any time soon, it would be good to get the dust off the tools...

imxlr8ed
2013.12.06, 10:57 PM
What is up dude!?! Been a long while, hope all is well!

I didn't even know there were other camber parts for the F1... Learn something everyday! Yes, the toe does and will have to change for initial setup, if you stick with a zero rod your toe in at 2 degrees knuckle camber will increase a bit. My F1 tie rod set should be able to address this nicely.

I'm basing this design on what my Jordan has done since I modified it and I' really hoping it gets the same effect without having to do all of that sloppy heating and bending. My initial design was an upper type system but it just didn't seem to make sense once I got modeled and moving on the screen. It seems to be a much sturdier system when it's on the bottom.

If you ever get out our way, you're always welcome here to get that dust off those cars! :D

imxlr8ed
2013.12.15, 11:30 PM
Out of this batch of prototypes I received, this was the one I was really eager to mount first. I will have some pics up detailing the install soon, just been crazy with Xmas shopping and typical running around. I do have it in my Ferrari right now but I don't have time tonight for some test laps. It did fit really nicely though. I will update this week!

imxlr8ed
2013.12.28, 01:21 AM
Ok, just put the Ferrari on the track. I'm fairly certain that going from 60 travel to 85 travel and dialing my endpoints up from 75ish to mid 80s after the first few laps is a good sign!

The car is highly predictible now into the corners, very calm and still steerable at the apexes. I installed the 1 degree camber block and I can honestly say it is a welcomed change to this car. So much so that I will more than likely be parking the Honda this Sunday.

Now I've also trimmed up some of my sideplates for this rebuild to. Trimmed up, meaning that I have the thinnest ones on and ended up removing the outer leg on both plates. I'm also only running the front screws, no middle screws whatsoever... sloppy but controlled. I highly doubt this mod contributed to the needed increase in steering numbers though.

To sum up... I'm very happy with the car now. My Ferrari was always hit or miss so I'm going to give full feedback after Sunday to see how it goes. Also threw one of my Front Winged Bumpers on the front as well. :D

EMU
2013.12.29, 08:50 AM
What tires/knuckles/tie rod were you using with this Ferrari setup? Were they trued or full height?

I typically would use as much of the front steering travel as I could when setting up the F1, so this is definitely a good thing so far. But what I am afraid of is having loss of front traction and having the car push. I typically preferred the .5d camber/caster with 0d knuckles, and a 3Racing purple tie rod (think that was -1).

How does it effect the fast sweepers compared to the slow tight corners? Does being able to use more steering angle on the car allow you to have a tighter turning radius in the slow section?

imxlr8ed
2013.12.29, 01:25 PM
Kyosho 23s up front, race trued after years of running them. K20s in the rear. Kyosho 0degree knuckles, 0degree bar, stock springs.

The car is calmer in all corners, tighter in the tights, less prone to spin out too. I would say it is pushier but it still cuts sharper in the tight turns so I really couldn't say what exact physics are in play here.

Still racing stock, F1 is coming up soon though.

EMU
2013.12.29, 02:38 PM
Sounds like in general, a reduction of front end mechanical grip. Which allows the steering travel to be increased (which gains tight corner steering due to wheel angle).

If you have a set of front 30d radials and can give them a try, I would like to hear the results. From what I remember, the Kyosho 23's had less grip than the 30's. Did they re-release them, or are these still the same 5-6 year old rubber?

imxlr8ed
2013.12.29, 11:34 PM
More like 6-7 year old rubber! The ones I get I store like gold.

Anyways... My F1 main was comparable to trying to pee straight up into the air and not getting wet. Car was running excellent all day and around 15 minutes before the Mains, I got paranoid about breaking one of my modded sideplates and swapped back to carbon. Also tightened up the diff a bit to get a hair more grunt out of the corners... Big Mistake!

Before the maim (heh... maim, very appropriate typo here) I did give it a test run and it seemed like it was all systems go but around 5 or 6 laps into the main the rear started breaking loose. I know it was a combination of things now but trying to baby it around every right turn was just so frustrating I eventually just pulled it off the track. Bitch of it is, I should've known better. After all these years I still don't keep well-enough alone and had to push it another direction.

So I sit down a bit later with the car and pull the plates off and thats when I notice one of them had a hairline crack on the upper side and a small section
of delamination. Can't win 'em all seems to be more like can't even come close! Don't know if it happened during the race or if it was already there and I just missed it before I installed it, don't really care either. Just bummed, over it already... kind of. :(

So, more testing to come, I want to install the .5 on another of my F1s and see if I can really nail down a lap time difference.

Also, I have the feeling that the camber wear that was already on the tires was a contributing factor once they started wearimg more on the insides with the new camber setting. So next time out I'll be swapping on some fresh tires all around.

EMU
2013.12.30, 08:37 AM
I was going to note that it will take some laps to have the tires settle into the new camber settings.

Sucks that you had a miserable main. Should have kept the UID sideplates on. Even if they break, you are primarily testing your parts... so test them! If they break, you know you need to revise the design more.

What matters most, is that you have learned a lot about the new parts and change in setup. And the parts that failed, were not ones that you produced. You were scared about your sideplate breaking, so you swapped it out, and it broke. Your car didn't like the change, and it let you know :P HA!

imxlr8ed
2013.12.30, 10:33 AM
I wanted to post that untouchable lap count. Visions of online podiums got the better of me. :o

EMU
2013.12.30, 11:49 AM
Live and learn, I guess... I seem to repeat that mistake often though. Always trying to get a little more out of the car, and then I take a huge step back.

lfisminiz
2013.12.30, 06:45 PM
Ill be trying the blocks out sometime soon. Dont know if i want to try on a new chassis and built it up or 1 of my current. Hate to mess with either of my 2. They both run well.