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arch2b
2013.12.15, 02:55 PM
bought this to address my problem of the self centering damper kit not matching up well with a PN motor mount.

the instructions include directions for mounting a brushless motor only. the website product information states these are compatible with 130 motors, both screw and non screw variety.

my question is, how does one actually install a 130 motor? in putting one in, the bottom cross bracing hits the can before the mounting holes lineup. it's not even close really as the bearing point his the mount before you get both holes flush with mount. the vertical orientation of the screw points don't allow for tiling the motor enough.


so, anyone out there with this able to explain to me what i'm doing wrong with this?

EMU
2013.12.16, 10:03 AM
Arch, hard to tell without having the part... but you may need to lay the motor flat, and use the included adapter to adjust mesh. Let me know if that works.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34046&stc=1&d=1387206175

Since I haven't seen the brushless motors/mounts yet, I don't know if this is solely for a brushless motor, but I would think that the mount should position a 130 flat.

arch2b
2013.12.16, 10:11 AM
as EMU has subsequently pointed out, this is incorrect.
that is simply a spacer or bracket for BL motors and of no value for anything else that i can discern. it has no adjustability with screw point location anyway so it maintains the same motor alignment regardless.
you can't lay the motor flat with the screw points at top and bottom orientation.

the piece serves as a 90 degree adapter, not a pass thru.

EMU
2013.12.16, 10:19 AM
From what I can see, you can screw one screw into the motor (with taper headed screw), which will retain it to the adapter, much like the Reflex mount, and then use the two screws to mount the adapter to the motormount. It is not a pass through, but more of a 90 degree adapter. I don't know whether this is viable, but just what I see when looking at the picture. Let me know if this works.

arch2b
2013.12.16, 10:32 AM
this is why i love the site:p offers up a slice of humble pie every once in awhile:cool:
you are correct, i was looking at it as a pass thru adapter, not a 90 degree adapter and it indeed works this way. i'm going to reverse the bracket in a minute.

i'd advise using loctite as 4mm screw is a bit short and 6mm is too long without shims.

arch2b
2013.12.16, 10:42 AM
next issue... the damper support arm hits the motor can limiting the adjustability of the top slide by half the distance available. i hope there is enough play that this doesn't cause an issue with setting gear mesh. lets just say you have VERY limited amount of play in motor positioning.

samy
2013.12.16, 11:25 AM
how about turn the adapter in 180? so you can move the motor horizontal.

arch2b
2013.12.16, 11:44 AM
already done and this is where measured adjustability is limited. i put in a spare ball diff just to check and there is just enough room to get one in without being overly tight but i fear there is limited room that might eliminate the usage of certain spur/pinion combinations. right now it has a 12t/53 64p and works.

EMU
2013.12.16, 12:18 PM
already done and this is where measured adjustability is limited. i put in a spare ball diff just to check and there is just enough room to get one in without being overly tight but i fear there is limited room that might eliminate the usage of certain spur/pinion combinations. right now it has a 12t/53 64p and works.
I have found that to be the case on many of motormounts. This typically isn't too much of a problem, unless trying to gear the motor to the moon. I typically prefer smaller spurs when I know that I am going to gear it up.

arch2b
2013.12.16, 08:06 PM
ok, got it all mocked up to test it out and noticed the alignment of the self centering damper is off with the damper shaft and post support. it's simply not perpendicular but off kilter.

EMU
2013.12.16, 08:53 PM
Is the DDS post centered in the chassis? Can you post a pic from the rear/top of the chassis?

arch2b
2013.12.16, 09:03 PM
the damper support post offers no adjustability in centering the ball end. it screws down in one spot, no height or left right adjustment.

ditch the stock spacer as well. the shaft spring hangs on the top swivel plate with the stock spacer. just as i did with the PN motor mount, put it over a bearing to level it out enough for the spring to not catch the swivel plate. one of the odd bits of milling on the support arm, they only flattened out enough area for the stock spacer :confused: this means my ball end gets out of plumb if i tighten it down to hard. you can see this in the picture. i need to shim it ever so lightly.

EMU
2013.12.16, 09:55 PM
What is the problem with the stock spacer? Is it too short? The bearing is whats causing the off centering. Maybe use some mr03 knigpin shims under the bearing (if you still want to use the bearing). they should be small enough outside diameter to not angle the post... in general, i would use a few thinner shims instead of the bearing. that gives you an easier time fine tuning the height.

You could just use the stock shim under the bearing...

arch2b
2013.12.16, 10:12 PM
the stock spacer is too short.

the bearing isn't the issue. the overhead picture was with the stock spacer only. if you look closely at the rear picture, the ball post is still plumb despite the bearing not sitting flat. it's only turned down hand tight, not cranked down. i do need to find a couple really thin shims that are smaller diameter to flatten that out though. I'm still mocking it all up at this point, nothing is final.

arch2b
2013.12.17, 12:29 PM
i dug through my shims and found the perfect match for the recess on the support arm to level the bearing spacer.
you can see the damper is still not aligning perpendicular to the rear end. i'd love for someone to tell me it is designed this way.

phea
2013.12.17, 02:41 PM
How does your front end look? Something looks drastically wrong like a missing spring can cause a tweak like that.

arch2b
2013.12.17, 02:49 PM
it's not the chassis. i had this damper hooked to a custom made cross bar on a PN motor mount and all was straight and true with same bearing shim. i was hoping that moving it over to an all atomic parts rear end would simply make it all fit without issue however that is not proving the case for me.

imxlr8ed
2013.12.17, 02:49 PM
All else fails... bend it!

I have tweaked many center supports on all kinds of mounts.

phea
2013.12.17, 03:17 PM
Interesting... perhaps you may have received a defective product. Maybe try reaching out to them to see if they can offer a replacement. Is Sai Tam still representing Atomic for North America?

Edit: There is no more Atomic USA rep, see link to thread
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39427

EMU
2013.12.17, 05:53 PM
do you have an 03 seup board to check that the rear pod is centered to the chassis? its hard to see from the pics... especially on my phone. :P

arch2b
2013.12.17, 07:40 PM
i don't have a setup board but will be at remnant Thursday and maybe someone there will. if it is indeed a miscalculation on the hole in the support arm, i can always drill a new hole provided the correct location is sufficiently off to accommodate it. i'm not afraid to drill into the mount arm. if i had aluminum stock and better tools, i would just make a new arm myself.

skyler
2013.12.19, 03:34 PM
i don't have a setup board but will be at remnant Thursday and maybe someone there will. if it is indeed a miscalculation on the hole in the support arm, i can always drill a new hole provided the correct location is sufficiently off to accommodate it. i'm not afraid to drill into the mount arm. if i had aluminum stock and better tools, i would just make a new arm myself.

Hi Arch, Look at the pivot shaft hole in relation to the T-plate pivot. The hole should be in the middle of the four holes for the t-plate. Mine was perfect. If that is ok, the problem is probably somewhere in your SCS. Hope this helps.

arch2b
2013.12.19, 09:29 PM
with mike keely's careful eye, there was a couple things he did and i watched that took 90% of the tweak out of the mount.
1. the t plate end needed to be sanded down so it wasn't bunding up on the swivel mount bar. the bar is recessed for a t plate but VERY tight fit which was causing my t plate to be tweaked.
2. bent the damper support arm up with a lever arm just a fraction.
3. disassembled the damper. regreased the damper shaft. tightened up the loop so it pinched the swivel catch pin.

all of this greatly improved the tweak in the parts but did not 100% eliminate the off center nature of the damper. i plan to bend up the damper support arm a fraction more to bring it into as close to perfect alignment as possible. if you have the tools, i recommend slotting the screw point to the motor mount so you can adjust the damper post location left to right. i don't have the fine tools needed for this. honestly disappointed at the lack adjustability of the damper support arm. i'm sure this motor mount is much better suited for brushless motors than brushed.

i drove the car in a 10 minute race tonight and came in 2nd so the parts combination are working for me but not 100% there yet. i have till january 11th to fine tune everything though.

Sinister_Y
2013.12.20, 08:37 AM
FYI, all of us that (were) using the SCS at our track don't use the spring at all. Just some grease. Some of us have gone back to a traditional disc damper. Also, most of us have gone back to the older PN MR2295 model motor mount as we find that is the best mount for rear grip. We were using laydown models, etc... Note we are 98-99% brushless at the track.

Mike Keely
2013.12.20, 08:50 PM
Ray, I have a file that is small enough to make a slot in the top mount arm were the screw goes through. This would give you some adjustment if needed.

arch2b
2013.12.20, 11:17 PM
thanks for the offer. i'm leary to use a file and enlarge the opening making it wobbly vs. drilling another hole to the side and filing it smooth between.