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View Full Version : Primer on Mini-Z Tires - want to win races?


quazster
2014.09.19, 02:53 AM
For the last few years we have spent quite a bit of time to try and look for alternative tires for Mini-Z. In the process we have learned quite a bit, and felt that now is the right time to write something up and share this with all you Mini-Z people out there.

In a nutshell, we have found many tires that are way faster and way more consistent than the PN/Kyosho types usually used and available.

Here is the link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GfuRjVKeJOgXMJ5NJfHskIUzRYg-Xu3EmOD6LrDseS4/edit?usp=sharing

Happy reading, any feedback is appreciated.

mleemor60
2014.09.19, 05:02 AM
Very interesting and informative reading. Thanks for the great input. What happened to page three?

dwight
2014.09.19, 06:58 AM
The jel claws model number is that the right one.

quazster
2014.09.19, 07:02 AM
The number was indeed wrong, now it is fixed. This is the beauty of documents on the cloud, small fixes and updates can be done so easily.

Well I can see size 3 and so can others, mleemor60 maybe check refresh or try other browser? Works best with Google Chrome of course.

cowboysir
2014.09.19, 08:28 AM
Bookmarked to favorites...I'll be interested to try recreate some if your experiments.

TheSteve
2014.09.19, 03:22 PM
Great document, it applies to so much more then just Mini-Z too.

cowboysir
2014.09.19, 06:21 PM
I was just wondering (since I don't recall reading it) if you trued to a specific diameter or just cleaned the imperfections in roundness once glued?

dwight
2014.09.19, 10:09 PM
Was wondering if you trued the tires on the inside. Because most slot car tires have a lip on them.

imxlr8ed
2014.09.19, 10:27 PM
Aren't most slot car tires silicone based though? I can recall one batch that was advertised as rubber tires but got them only to find that they were mostly silicone based. Could be why they last so long too. Make sure the manufacturer is using rubber cause if they are not, you may find that you'll never be able to go back to rubber on your RCP unless you give it a thorough cleaning.

EXCELLENT write-up though! Highly informative. For me, it's always been about finding the right balance between front and rear tires... my addiction though is new sticky rears because it's the easy way out of having to tune and just concentrate on my driving. I'm not too competitive but I try.

JesseT
2014.09.20, 12:03 AM
There is a significant percentage of silicone tires used for slot car racing, but we didn't test any of them. Also, if among them would have been a silicone tire, we would have noticed.
In slot car racing it is also a known fact that silicone doesn't match with others. Once a silicone tire is allowed and used on a slot car track, only silicone is fast anymore.

Yes, balance is key. There is only so much you can make to balance by chassis and suspension settings. The beauty of NSR, Slot.it, etc... seems to be that the quality is high and repeatibility is easy. If you had a nice tire combo of example NSR supergrip rear and Slot.it P2 front that worked well. You can buy teh same tires elsewhere again of another batch, true to same diameter, and they are identical again in balance, for 20-30 sets of batteries without touching anything.

quazster
2014.09.20, 02:36 AM
Aren't most slot car tires silicone based though? I can recall one batch that was advertised as rubber tires but got them only to find that they were mostly silicone based. Could be why they last so long too. Make sure the manufacturer is using rubber cause if they are not, you may find that you'll never be able to go back to rubber on your RCP unless you give it a thorough cleaning.

EXCELLENT write-up though! Highly informative. For me, it's always been about finding the right balance between front and rear tires... my addiction though is new sticky rears because it's the easy way out of having to tune and just concentrate on my driving. I'm not too competitive but I try.

Trust me when I say that the tires we have tested have no silicone content. We have really good method to test the tire for silicone but 95% of the time you know instantly when you have the tire in your hand that it is silicone and don't even need to test.

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39207
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=447988#post447988

BTW some of the new Kyosho readyset tires contain silicone.

mleemor60
2014.09.20, 07:11 AM
The tires you listed in the primer, are they rubber or foam?

quazster
2014.09.20, 02:29 PM
Solid rubber tires. We don't run foams on RCP.

mleemor60
2014.09.20, 04:31 PM
Just asking to be sure. Personally I wouldn't allow foams on carpet either.

cowboysir
2014.09.20, 07:50 PM
Just asking to be sure. Personally I wouldn't allow foams on carpet either.

Amen to that!!!!!

I re read the article to confirm so I can ask with certainty...do you have a specific diameter you true the tires to or is it just to clean the material to get it round?

dwight
2014.09.20, 10:29 PM
These tires are for Ninco slot car track they are all rubber. I know this because I race slot cars and have done this for over 10 years.
I also wanted to know if you tested the BRM slot car tires my club uses them and they work great.

quazster
2014.09.21, 02:25 AM
Amen to that!!!!!

I re read the article to confirm so I can ask with certainty...do you have a specific diameter you true the tires to or is it just to clean the material to get it round?

Depending what I'm looking for I usually true rears to about 23-24mm. Fronts are trued also, diameter varies from 21 to 23mm.

lithium
2014.09.24, 08:36 AM
I have try p02 in front and f22 rear, it's amazing, I have never had so much grip on the rcp, ;)

abasualdo
2014.09.24, 09:50 AM
I have try p02 in front and f22 rear, it's amazing, I have never had so much grip on the rcp, ;)

Is that rough or smooth RCP side?

dameetz
2014.09.24, 12:53 PM
Where can I get these tyres that can ship international? To south east asia to be exact.

lithium
2014.09.24, 02:17 PM
ebay ,
only smooth side , ;-)

rear : SIPT29 , 20X12 F1 , f22

front :SIPT02 - P2 20 x12 , p2

abasualdo
2014.09.24, 03:27 PM
Thank you.
How well do you think this tire combination would work on rough RCP side?

JesseT
2014.09.25, 02:22 AM
Thank you.
How well do you think this tire combination would work on rough RCP side?

We haven't run on the rough side for a long time, so exactly I wouldn't know. From what I've heard, understeer is a bigger issue there, and P2 is really not an aggressive tire. It is the easy tire to get a working setup on a standard chassis configuration. For more front grip, there are a number of tires out there. Thats' not the problem.

art4242
2014.10.06, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the great write up. I was able to try some of these tires out last week for a couple of packs and was impressed, the best combo that worked for me was the NSR 5229ís in front and the Slot.It F22ís in the rear. This combo felt like it had more grip (both front and rear) than the tires I usually run.

I typically run trued Kyosho 30ís (radial or slicks) on the front, and on the rears Kysoho 20 radials (for stock) and PN radial 6 (for mod). The Kyosho 30 fronts seem to last a long time (several race days). The Kyosho 20 radials are only good for 1-2 race days before the treads wear down to a slick, and the PN radial 6ís seem to be only good for one day after opening until they lose some grip.

If the slot car tires turn out to be consistent and (especially the rears) can last longer that will be great.

When mounting the slot car tires, do you typically leave the wheel rim as is, or shave off the small lip on the rim (on the side towards the middle of the car)? I mounted my first couple of tires without shaving the lip, but found that the glue bond wasnít great because the slot tires donít have the small recess in them like typical mini-z tires do to clear the lip. The next couple I shaved down the lip on the wheel rim and was able to glue the tires flat.

Vrooom
2014.10.28, 05:19 PM
You guys should also try the urethane fronts from Pauls slot car shop.
You can find him on ebay.
He has some that are made for mini-z too. Send him an email. I think it is 40 shore.
They have to be glued to the rim, and there is some cutting and sanding involved. But the grip is extreme. And easy adjustable by the amount of glue on the sidewall.
I usually sand down the lip on the rim to get some more rounds out of them. Trued to 22mm they need only a couple of laps to be run in.
Easily lasts a couple or more days of racing in mod. And are almost everlasting in stock.

cowboysir
2014.12.07, 07:45 PM
I was looking through Jesse T shapeways page and noticed some F1 rims meant for BRM tires and I wanted to get a grip comparison between them and Kyosho F1 tires?

JesseT
2014.12.08, 11:31 AM
There is no comparison...

The BRM tire that are refered to are BRM S-020S 22-shore rear tire. Very good and durable.

cowboysir
2014.12.08, 03:53 PM
Did you try/rate BRMS-021 super soft high performance shore a15?

Do you have any glueing techniques to share if i decided to pick up slot car shaped mini-z rims from your Shapeways page? Because of the inset sidewall area I wonder if it needs a 3 stage glueing technique of getting the center secured then securing the sidewalls in place?

JesseT
2014.12.08, 05:23 PM
The center doesn't need gluing from my experience. Would be hard to get it uniform either.

I haven't tried the 15 on a F1, but elsewhere it's been too soft. Too soft is too soft, and only becomes wobbly without any increase in traction.

dameetz
2015.01.19, 06:22 AM
Has anyone tried F22 rear with Kyo30 front combo? Will that work? I m about to order some F22 to try it out but the shop I m ordering at has no PT02 in stock and they offer me P4 (SIPT10) instead.

art4242
2015.01.19, 01:48 PM
Has anyone tried F22 rear with Kyo30 front combo? Will that work? I m about to order some F22 to try it out but the shop I m ordering at has no PT02 in stock and they offer me P4 (SIPT10) instead.

I have tried that combo, it is ok but a little pushy as the F22's are pretty grippy in the rear. I have tried the PT02 in front and they are roughly similar to the K30 in grip. I usually run the NSR 5229 in front which has more grip. Depends on how much steering you like.

dameetz
2015.01.19, 06:06 PM
Thanks art4242.

Djiewie
2015.03.18, 06:42 AM
I have tried that combo, it is ok but a little pushy as the F22's are pretty grippy in the rear. I have tried the PT02 in front and they are roughly similar to the K30 in grip. I usually run the NSR 5229 in front which has more grip. Depends on how much steering you like.

Art4242, how do you mod the tire to fit the mini-z rim?

it has a groove in the middle for the slotcarrims.

Greetz JW

cowboysir
2015.03.18, 09:29 AM
There's a description in the primer document that explains you need to glue them to the rim inside out and then true the excess off with a tire sander/truer

JesseT
2015.03.18, 03:27 PM
There's a description in the primer document that explains you need to glue them to the rim inside out and then true the excess off with a tire sander/truer

There's also the option to run rims which will fit them directly:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/M46LZBAB9/mini-z-sipt29-wheelset-3?li=search-results-1&optionId=40107704
http://www.minizlove.com/product.html/jrp-rear-tire-f22?category_id=7
http://www.minizlove.com/PICTURE/770-3-2015-03-051639.jpg


The added benefit is that there is no more constant need to check and reglue the tires as the swept edges will be under a lot less stress.

LuckyDuc
2015.03.19, 08:31 PM
Wow. I can't believe how much thought and testing goes into tire selection for you on road mini z racers. Astonishing!

It is a good thing that I make the racing tire decisions for my family's 4 mini z Optima buggies. I put the same OEM SuperSand tires on all 4. No one has a tire advantage on our basement RCP track. :p

I would pull my hair out trying to race against you guys. Back to the minor leagues for me.

herman
2015.03.19, 09:27 PM
tires are the most often overlooked upgrade part... i learned the hard way changing springs, adjusting camber, adjusting the ball diff... this and that... still scratching my head... only to find out that i just had to simply change the tire... lol...

tires are top priority for top racers and they would indeed welcome any advantage that the tire would give...