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Zrc
2014.10.12, 11:10 PM
So what's happening in YOUR stock class these day's ?
I hope you're having fun because stock class racing truly is the most cost effective, least stressful way to enjoy mini-z racing for a long,long time. If you haven't noticed, stock class or ,at the very least,less performance oriented classes are booming. If you're not already involved....get involved.
So take some time to use this thread and post what's going on with "stock class" racing at your club or in your area.
I copied this information on the Kyosho rules from another post by Arch2b. Hope they help. If you use a different set of rules, list them for us.

Here are the Kyosho Stock Rules, (Ver. 2.2) Updated on 03-06-2014

Open to any Kyosho Mini-Z Racer and AWD Chassis, Iwaver/Fire-Lap Racer and AWD Chassis. Chassis can be any configuration including LM and wheelbases from 86mm to 106mm.

• Chassis - No modification (shaving or drilling unless absolutely required for proper part operation)

• Motor - Kyosho Racer and AWD Stock motor only.

• PCB - No modification allowed except for updating to current PCB board. No Gyro permitted, No brushless, permitted, no increase in quantity of FET's permitted. This accommodates periodic changes or upgrades in PCB design with regard to frequency, etc.

• Bodies - Must be Kyosho Kit or Autoscale body, or full painted and assembled white (unpainted) body. Modification (shaving or drilling for weight savings and aerodynamic gain, adding wings etc) not allowed. (Exceptions; hole may be drilled in rear deck lid of Ferrari F355 to allow for damper clearance as example, front splitter or low air foils that protrude to sharp points may be rounded at corners/edges.) custom painted bodies must be fully painted and ALL accessories excluding optional kit parts (rally light on Toyota Celica for example). completed body must be within 2 grams of original Autoscale weight (average weight of Autoscale rear spoiler). Bodies found to have greater deviation will not be permitted.

• Wheels - Any Manufacturer plastic wheels only. Wheels/tires must be of appropriate width and offset for respective Autoscale and fit inside the body.

• Tires - Any Manufacturer brand rubber tire (No grooving, cutting or silicone based tires allowed)

• Batteries - Four AAA batteries. Alkaline, Ni-MH or Ni-Cd batteries may be used. No other type of battery may be used. For example: Lithium Polymer may not be used, Ni-Zn may not be used.

• Ball Bearings - Any manufacturer non ceramic ball bearings are permitted.

• Front Suspension - Manufacturer stock suspension and parts permitted ONLY.

• Rear Suspension - Manufacturer stock suspension permitted ONLY and assembly appropriate for chassis type (example, LM stock configuration includes rear damper. Other kits include Kyosho Rear Shock Set #MZ206)

• H/T Plate - Any Manufacturer H/T plate permitted, must be appropriate to stock wheelbase for chassis configuration and Autoscale selection.

• Wheel Nuts - Any Manufacturer wheel nuts permitted.

Modifications to the rules
• Oils, lubes, greases, tire tape will be allowed in our series.
• Allowable ESC modifications are limited to the replacement in kind (same as stock) of fets and other board components.
• Autoscale modifications are limited to the minimum clearancing needed for operation of permitted equipment. Shaving bumpers, skirts, windows, etc. will not be allowed. Please choose your autoscale accordingly as there will be no exceptions made thus no excuses.
• R246 autoscales that are sold in chassis sets are acceptable. The R390GT1 is an example of this R246 autoscale sold as a chassis set with wheels. Those that are not sold in this manner are not acceptable. To clarify this further, other Autoscales not sold as chassis sets or readyset are not acceptable.
• Wiring must remain stock except you may replace motor wires with like wire. IE; replace stock motor leads with Turnigy 24awg wires. You may replace the stock antenna wire with like wire.
• AWD chassis my use the aluminum motor spacers to assist in dissipating heat.

arch2b
2014.10.13, 11:37 AM
these are the stock class rules we use for our club and have worked well. there are always exceptions to the rules and some unique circumstances to deal with but for the most part these rules are very easy to implement and follow to provide a cost effective, entry level racing class.

if you don't have a stock class, or something that resembles it, in a retail environment, i argue you really should. the long term issue with clubs is member turnover and if you don't appeal to entry level groups to draw new membership in, your on a constant watch for turnover that doesn't get replenished. people will drop out of stock, just as they do out of more advanced classes but i can't stress the benefits enough of having a class that allows someone to buy an RTR or ARR and jump into a class that they won't be at an immediate disadvantage regarding equipment (ignoring the Sports Series issue).

i have to admit that in our group, we consistently hit more laps with stock class than HFAY or Mod. it doesn't seem like it at the time but consistency wins 9/10 times and stock class is the proving ground for consistency as you need to carry every bit of speed and power you can given the limitations of stock motors. nearly every single stock race is a close battle of skill, more so than other classes which has made them very enjoyable.

some of the issues we have come across are (and responses as they apply to our club):
just because you can buy a JSCC or anniversary kit with all the bells and whistles doesn't mean its a stock kit, it's not. it even says so on the box, 'included options.... '

yes, some kits out of the box are less than perfect and require tweaking and or replacement (tweaked chassis). this is not a valid argument for adding additional exemptions to the rules for additional options to be permitted as these instances are not pervasive (except F1 chassis tweak, if anyone still runs F1). we do permit replacement of the 4th servo gear as we have seen many of these stock gears fail.

not everyone is going to be able to put down a stock car and do 100 laps in 10 minutes. it's also not a valid argument for adding additional exemptions to the rules for additional options to be permitted. putting in the wheel time is far more valuable a lesson than buying a part to fix a problem that can be resolved with increased skill. this is the focus of our stock class. if a stock part is defective, it needs to be replaced. if it can be tweaked, do so and don't hesitate to ask for assistance or advice. the mini-z community is unparalleled in that regard.

stock motors have shown to work well for us, even with 10 minute mains. yes, some motors get hot but overall it's not been an issue. you get the same variation in output that you find in 70T motors as well. until there is a stock equivalent for brushless, this works very well for us and will continue to permit stock motors only. i can't stress enough to the manufacturers the need for a stock class brushless motor. we don't need another motor that permits unusable speed for indoor tracks however we are in dire need of a good motor that runs at stock speed and power. it really is an enormous barrier to adopting brushless in anything other than Mod class and if that is all it's good for, it doesn't bode well for brushless dispite kyosho limiting our options for anything else.

that's it for my sermon... what you will find with certainty is that 'stock' means different thing to many people. the only gold standard for stock class at the moment is kyosho cup rules and they are written to serve their own interest however they have been ongoing since 2003 or earlier. don't get hung up on what others are doing but establish something that works for your given club/market. our local competing club has different stock class rules than our club but it works for them and in the end, it's what works for your club and your goals that is important

stock class is great.

imxlr8ed
2014.10.13, 12:47 PM
Most inclusive and about as simple as I could make it...

Racer (Closed Ratio):

6 or 7 tooth Pinion gear and Stock Differential only! (allowable to use locking collar on left side)
Kyosho chassis (MR01, MR015, MR02, MR03)
Iwaver chassis (01, 02M, 04M)
2WD only
Any mass produced, injection molded body for 1/28th scale racing.
No lexan bodies
90-102mm wheelbase
No open wheels
Any electronics
PN 70turn bag stock motors or box stock, no mods, break-ins and comm drops only.
(4) NiMH AAA cells only


Racer (Open Ratio)

Any gearing
Kyosho chassis (MR01, MR015, MR02, MR03, MA010, MA015, MA020,)
Iwaver chassis (01, 02M, 04M)
Xmod chassis (Gen 1, Gen 2)
2WD or AWD
Any mass produced, injection molded body for 1/28th scale racing.
No lexan bodies
90-102mm wheelbase
No open wheels
Any electronics
PN 70turn bag stock motors or box stock, no mods, break-ins and comm drops only.
(4) NiMH AAA cells only


Closed Ratio makes it a very level playing field, show up with a near box stock Sports model and you still have a real good chance!

arch2b
2014.10.13, 01:00 PM
i know this is relatively new for you guys but how has it gone so far? our stock class has shown to be very good for our club/shop, just had to push through to make that happen. i will say, we worked at it for at least 2 years before we found our groove with stock class so to speak.
i really look forward to running your classes on the 26th?

abasualdo
2014.10.13, 02:55 PM
The 7tooth class serves the purpose of slowing the cars down, allowing newer drivers time to react and enjoy racing their cars.

I don't think it levels the play field, the top three drivers at Railyard are still pulling many, many laps on the field. There is no way a box stock MR03S stands a chance against a prepped race ready 7tooth class car, which is basically a gear ratio limited, fully prepped Hfay Mr03/Mr02 car.

I do think it's fun, especially racing some fun autoscales bodies that normally don't make good race bodies, but are ok at the slower speeds in the 7tooth class.

I agree with Ray, in order to build up a class of new racers, you need a class which allows someone to be competitive with a nearly box stock car.

I have been saying this for a while, we need to be focusing on the MR03s, hopefully the new transmitter coming out soon will eliminate the last roadblock in allowing the Mr03s class to grow, or in most cases, start to grow.

Just my $.02
Al

abasualdo
2014.10.13, 03:06 PM
See how this car does in the the 7tooth car.

Who said Nascar race cars only turn left. :D

mleemor60
2014.10.13, 03:28 PM
One of the keys to getting some solid growth is in the, for the sake of the argument, "box stock" classes. A beginner has an easier time of rationalizing being beaten by somebody that is driving essentially the same equipment. What starts to drive the stake through the heart is the onslaught of what I like to refer to as "Kool-Aid" drinkers that tell the rookies that they "must have" the left handed doodad for a nanny goat's rump(in orange or whatever color) in order to compete to win. Once that starts it isn't long before realization of how much is being spent and still not the desired results are being achieved. To me it is absolutely amazing how many competitors think that more motor will equate to better results when the fact is that the majority of them couldn't drive a nail in the dirt with the gear they have let alone making it faster(read crash more often at higher speed).

Is there a place for the MRCG, P-28, AMZ, MRX ad nauseum super car, VE, Lipo, LiFe, Li-ion, foam tired, glued to the track, pocket rockets? Absolutely!! Should they be allowed in the same room with the rookies that are still dumb struck with the blinding speed of a car directly from the box on ASC tires and alkaline batteries? To this I say no. It's like handing your 10 year old a copy of "Hustler" and expecting him to not look at the pictures and at least casually rub his fingers across the "scratch and sniff". You will likely ruin him or just screw him up for a while. It is hard enough to get somebody to take the plunge and stick with it long enough to figure out how to adjust the wheelbase on what he has let alone expose them to the flat out insanity that is currently permeating the scale with stuff that less than 5% of our so called hero's can drive. Yet. There we stand with a box full of ballistic bling, telling someone that doesn't even know what scale it is the "he" has to have it to compete.

Still we stand and wonder. Where did everybody go?

Keep it simple. Watch it grow.

arch2b
2014.10.13, 04:18 PM
easy, there tiger :p the question asked, So what's happening in YOUR stock class these day's ? for the sake of keeping this thread alive lets focus on responses to that particular question :cool:

how is 'stock' class fairing in NC?

mleemor60
2014.10.13, 04:39 PM
T-plates bearings and tires. Other than that if it didn't come in the box it doesn't go on the car. We are having a ball with it.

imxlr8ed
2014.10.13, 05:05 PM
Bling doesn't buy wins, I have personally witnessed some drivers do amazing things with box-stock cars... Gasman put us all in our places years ago with a box-stock Enzo in HFAY. Lap after lap that fateful day, he was untouchable, plastic bushings and all. He did swap tires but that was it... dropped it on the track and he was gone! Then again, he was embarrassing us all with his 01s when we were deep into our 02s.

I'm not saying someone is going to clean up with a box stock but if they can drive, they are gonna end up at the top of the pile eventually.

The Closed Ratio IMO has been some of our best racing in a while, tightest groups and almost everytime we have raced, nobody has pulled off the track.

The tuning is much simpler and there's less stress.

Zrc
2014.10.13, 05:19 PM
Mleemor60 couldn't describe the situation much better. We need to promote stock class racing MUCH,MUCH stronger than any other type of racing.
Racing for racers is fine but we simply can't forget about all those POTENTIAL racers. They out number us by LOTS.
I'd love to see an effort by every club and track to start a stock class or better promote an existing stock class. I imagine the comment we'll hear most is" my racers don't want to race or invest in slower, stock level cars". My answer is "That's perfect !!....you want stock class racing to draw in NEW racers."
I'm no genius but I do believe this information age has made it absolutely essential to go out and get customers. Yep, I said it....We actually have to do some work to get customers or new racers.
So here's the question of the day: When was the last time you, your club or your business did any type of outside promotion ?? (example: a static display at a mall or at a car show, a race day at the local community center, etc,etc.)
Stock class racing could be the most overlooked saving grace for rc car racing. Think about it... you're at a car show and you take a car out of a box, slap some batteries in and show somebody they can race it. That's value selling folks !! Stock class racing should be the first ,best impression people get.

imxlr8ed
2014.10.13, 05:27 PM
We got our best numbers when I showed up at the track with a tacklebox, a MAHA charger and one or two cars... I have overheard some watching us running our races and tuning our cars utter the words "oh no, more money to spend". It can be daunting to newbies to see guys with gobs of gear at the track, to them it just looks like another mountain to climb.

Simplicity was always our best recruitment tool.

abasualdo
2014.10.13, 05:29 PM
Sorry Ed, don't agree, damper plates do win races.:)
Most of my cars don't have any more parts than they need in order to win/place well in a race.

The finishing order and spacing between racers is still roughly the same.
7tooth class is no where close to box stock, just a hopped up car with a shorter fixed gear ratio.

In my opinion, as close to box stock as possible is the only way to grow the ranks of new racers. :)

imxlr8ed
2014.10.13, 05:33 PM
Is this an argument again? ;)

If I get Roland or Grabowski down here with a box stock MR03 Sport, do you really think my dampers would help me?

Never wanted to complicate things hence why the rules only hold to the gears and the motors. All the alloy in the world will usually only buy you a bit of consistency and durability.

You weren't there years ago when my nephew was dominating with a near box-stock, third-hand 02 Corvette with a floppy rear lexan plate, no suspension whatsoever and he was destroying all of us.

Zrc
2014.10.13, 05:40 PM
Sorry if my last post added to the sermon Arch. I blame it all on mleemor60. He's an instigator !! :D
Keep on talking it up folks. We'll all find out that we really do like stock racing and maybe we'll come up with some new promotional ideas.

imxlr8ed
2014.10.13, 06:00 PM
Yeah mleemor60!... don't go bringing that angst up our way buddy! ;)

Wait a minute... you started the thread Zrc!

arch2b
2014.10.13, 06:20 PM
well, the folks that have responded so far have done all that and more my friend:p we've been doing it for more than a decade. :cool: it's not easy, never cheap and some years are easier than others.

simplicity wins, i agree. i also knowledge that each group is unique and what works for one doesn't work for all.

lets focus on seeing how others are doing with stock racing vs. rules. :p

abasualdo
2014.10.13, 06:21 PM
No argument, just saying that 7tooth 70turn is not box stock.

New racer still have the financial and technical challenges to race prep a 7tooth car as opposed to a box stock car.

I realize the reason we did it this way was to keep it simple and be all inclusive and no solution is ever perfect.

The perfect solution is spending $160, 30 minutes later, you are competitive or will be as your driving skills improve.

abasualdo
2014.10.13, 06:43 PM
Bottom line - my brother-in-law, Eric, that just started racing, likes and is enjoying running the stock car/7tooth class. :)

mleemor60
2014.10.13, 07:02 PM
We have different classes for just about everything. One is our version as mentioned of "box stock". One is LM, one is GT and the ubiquitous Can/Am. We have a couple of "noob's" that have just one car. We let them run their single car in all the classes, one, to help with initial outlay and two, to get them more track time which is making them better competitors. We try to teach the one with just the box stock sport series that to go faster(in his mind) that he has to go farther in the time allowed. Actual terminal velocity has nothing to do with it. Once he can run the same number of laps in a race for three weeks in a row we will talk about adding actual speed to the car. So far he gains more laps every week so he hasn't plateaued yet but in his mind he is going faster. Now he asks about chassis tuning instead of more motor. This one will probably stick. The other is an older guy(not ancient like me) that is in it for the joy of it. He is progressing more slowly but understands that "speed kills" so tuning is more important cause it makes the car easier to drive which in turn leads to more speed without getting caught up in the "Neo syndrome". He now has a second car, an LM which can fall into our Can/Am class as well since the basic difference is motor. It makes you feel like you have helped someone when they ask how to make the car turn better instead of go faster.

There is a lot to it and it is a bit different from location to location. What we all need to do first and foremost is to go out of the way to guide and not steer. If you teach them well they in turn will do the same when it is their time to do so.

arch2b
2014.10.13, 07:34 PM
any others out there running a 'stock' class beside PA, DC and NC? how long? what is the participation like? how does it fit in with your overall program?

Mike Keely
2014.10.13, 09:52 PM
We call it box stock but it is really a cheap spec class. Our best racing came from this class. We had a 10 race points series with two through outs. It looks like we are about to start another series again. Here were our rules.

Box Stock Rules

1) Only LM bodies with their stock wing and no mods. If the wings crack or are broken they may be repaired back to the way the body came stock
2) Any bearings allowed
3) Only LM front rims and tires
4) Any manufacturers rear rims as long as they are the same diameter and offset as the stock LM rim for the body that they are running
5) Only Stock PC boards with 3010 fets and no stacking of fets
6) Only LM rear tires
7) No lightening of the chassis or body but weight may be added
8) Only our spec motor with a Kyosho 6 tooth pinion
9) Only 4 NIMH batteries allowed
10) Metal 4th gear in the servo is allowed
11) Any T-Bar is allowed as long as it keeps the car with the stock wheelbase.
12) Stock front end with the Kyosho black stock springs
13) Any motor wires allowed but the stock wire must be used between the batteries
14) Stock switch must be used
15) Any oils or lubes may be used as the driver sees fit for handling or performance
16) No oil filled top shocks
17) These rules are subject to change as the club feels fit. All changes need to be voted on and the majority vote will then be accepted. Any rule changes must be agreed upon before any qualifying runs have been ran for that day or they will be accepted as a new rule the next race day.
18) All cars must be inspected before the qualifiers start
19) Metal rear pods are legal but the ride height adjusters must be so the axle is kept in the middle of the adjustment range or as close to stock height as possible.
20) Any protests will need to be submitted to Gary or Mike within 10 minutes of the mains being completed. $10 will need to be submitted with the protest and the item that they feel is illegal. Gary and Mike’s findings are final. If Gary’s and Mike’s decision oppose each other than Reggie will have the final tie breaking vote. If the item is found to be illegal the protester will keep their $10 and the owner of the illegal car will lose their points and position for that night. If the item is found to be legal then the owner of the protested car gets to keep the $10.

Mike Keely
2014.10.13, 09:57 PM
My car was stock except the T bar and bearings.

lfisminiz
2014.10.16, 07:38 PM
Just my thoughts on our (Railyard) stock racing. IM all for stock racing. Each club has there own situations that dictate stock racing. For us, we have a unique situation. Were at a shop that has BIG scale racing on both sides of our track. If we get 3 or more newbies that show up, i think they should race by themselves with us experienced guys helping them out. Obviously if we dont have enough newbies, than we can all run it to fill the class for fun racing and give the new guy practice.
2 ways for us to gain more people....newbies and the big scale guys that are there already. I think the big scale guys running there already would be our best chance. So far our newbie growth has been lackluster.
A couple of points brought up by others...:rolleyes:
"gobs of gear", Well i know im one of them. I can tell you EVERY race day, somebody needs a part that im glad to help out with. Most people would be impressed seeing the bodies etc...and what can be done with the Zs. A VERY small % would shy away.
I know for a fact, That all the big scale racers there think, im sure, the Z is a toy. A bit of a mix between having fun and being a bit more professional would help the Z not look like a toy. Running in circles and bumping into guys right before a start of a race...dont think that will impress. Sitting on a chair on driver stand area....dont think so. I saw 3 guys check the Zs out, saw that stuff, off they went.
In our situation, we need fun and a bit more seriousness during racing to draw those guys in.
To finish as it was said, bling wont win races unless you can DRIVE.;)

lfisminiz
2014.10.16, 07:58 PM
By the way guys....good to see all our Z clubs trying to promote the best we can. Its just been a tough job. Good to see the different clubs that have been around for so long still moving along. Better than not at all. :)

mleemor60
2014.10.16, 08:23 PM
Just my thoughts on our (Railyard) stock racing. IM all for stock racing. Each club has there own situations that dictate stock racing. For us, we have a unique situation. Were at a shop that has BIG scale racing on both sides of our track. If we get 3 or more newbies that show up, i think they should race by themselves with us experienced guys helping them out. Obviously if we dont have enough newbies, than we can all run it to fill the class for fun racing and give the new guy practice.
2 ways for us to gain more people....newbies and the big scale guys that are there already. I think the big scale guys running there already would be our best chance. So far our newbie growth has been lackluster.
A couple of points brought up by others...:rolleyes:
"gobs of gear", Well i know im one of them. I can tell you EVERY race day, somebody needs a part that im glad to help out with. Most people would be impressed seeing the bodies etc...and what can be done with the Zs. A VERY small % would shy away.
I know for a fact, That all the big scale racers there think, im sure, the Z is a toy. A bit of a mix between having fun and being a bit more professional would help the Z not look like a toy. Running in circles and bumping into guys right before a start of a race...dont think that will impress. Sitting on a chair on driver stand area....dont think so. I saw 3 guys check the Zs out, saw that stuff, off they went.
In our situation, we need fun and a bit more seriousness during racing to draw those guys in.
To finish as it was said, bling wont win races unless you can DRIVE.;)

The 26th should be an eye opener then. With Tommy Lane and EMU in the house plus the additional travelers from the south coming along there will be an opportunity to show off some of the technology that has devastated the ranks of most tracks because of the additional knowledge required to keep up with Lipos, etc. However. They may show some of the guy's that think these are toys that there are some wild possibilities for the strong of heart not to mention the likelihood of some pretty good racing for any watchers and peepers that stop by. Maybe it will give your group a boost.

lfisminiz
2014.10.16, 08:57 PM
Hope so Mike. All tho the Lipo etc...I like to mess with but not my preference. I like it a bit slower. But I'm game to run mod with something.

imxlr8ed
2014.10.17, 02:40 PM
Just my thoughts on our (Railyard) stock racing. IM all for stock racing. Each club has there own situations that dictate stock racing. For us, we have a unique situation. Were at a shop that has BIG scale racing on both sides of our track. If we get 3 or more newbies that show up, i think they should race by themselves with us experienced guys helping them out. Obviously if we dont have enough newbies, than we can all run it to fill the class for fun racing and give the new guy practice.
2 ways for us to gain more people....newbies and the big scale guys that are there already. I think the big scale guys running there already would be our best chance. So far our newbie growth has been lackluster.
A couple of points brought up by others...:rolleyes:
"gobs of gear", Well i know im one of them. I can tell you EVERY race day, somebody needs a part that im glad to help out with. Most people would be impressed seeing the bodies etc...and what can be done with the Zs. A VERY small % would shy away.
I know for a fact, That all the big scale racers there think, im sure, the Z is a toy. A bit of a mix between having fun and being a bit more professional would help the Z not look like a toy. Running in circles and bumping into guys right before a start of a race...dont think that will impress. Sitting on a chair on driver stand area....dont think so. I saw 3 guys check the Zs out, saw that stuff, off they went.
In our situation, we need fun and a bit more seriousness during racing to draw those guys in.
To finish as it was said, bling wont win races unless you can DRIVE.;)

Don't be a buzzkill, if they don't want to have fun than I don't want them in our club. Did you ever wonder if I do that stuff on purpose?... just for that very reason?

I'm not collecting a check from this, and even if I did I'd still be an effin goofball! If I wanted "serious", I'd go to work on Sundays.

lfisminiz
2014.10.17, 07:38 PM
Don't be a buzzkill, if they don't want to have fun than I don't want them in our club. Did you ever wonder if I do that stuff on purpose?... just for that very reason?

I'm not collecting a check from this, and even if I did I'd still be an effin goofball! If I wanted "serious", I'd go to work on Sundays.

I havent seen your method add more racers? Besides that, i know you for a LONGGGGGG time. We have been to many races together and remember when i was the only one showing up to race at your place? I know how your humor is and thats one of the things i like about you.:p Im just making helpfull suggestions.;) This is about adding more people by using a stock class, isnt it?

arch2b
2014.10.17, 08:06 PM
for comparison, we've measure our success over course of years at hobby works... stick it out over time and make tweaks to the program as necessary and i'm sure you will see growth.

lfisminiz
2014.10.17, 08:47 PM
Thanks Ray. Actually if we could get most of us to show up at the same time, we would have a good amount of guys.

arch2b
2014.10.17, 08:56 PM
thats always the hard part. :rolleyes:

Dusty Weasle
2014.11.02, 11:42 PM
PDFs for Mini-AZ's regs can be found here for convenient reading:
http://www.mini-az.com/downloads.html

The AZGT is our 'stock class' flagship series that just wrapped its 9th year! :) It would be more accurate to call it a 'super-stock class' as all normal hop-ups are legal. We found this to be more fun and accessible because the cars simply behave better. This makes it easier for new guys to learn while allowing the veterans to push competitively.

The short form: Kyosho chassis. Any 1:28-24 scale plastic body. Any PCB. 70t+ brush motor. Min 170g. Its a mix of race days. Most are 5/5/10min rounds, with two 30min race days and the season finale 1hr race.

This also keeps scrutineering to a minimum. Amusingly the biggest issue is the minimum weight. Some guys manage to get their cars right on the legal edge, and sometimes they come up just a hair under. So we see coins taped to chassis and strands of solder wrapped around front clips, etc.

(The Street Tuner Cup is a motor and body limited series for non-sports car bodies. Bonus points for leading a lap and setting fast lap. Utilizes a lap handicap system akin to European sports car racing. The Open Class Dash is an anything goes series in which laps=points plus lead/fast bonus points.)

More speed is definitely counterproductive for the full-on inexperienced new drivers as they will just ping pong off the walls. Mini-AZ does charity events for UTI every year and we use box stock AM cars for the walk-ups. They still bounce off the walls, but not as bad. The trouble with this is it makes Mini-Z's look like silly little toys and I've seen racers see this, scoff and walk off. Periodically we will take to the track with our personal cars and give a demonstration of what can be done.

99.99% of the people that say 'oh, cool!' and then bounce off the walls would never put the effort into racing well. I watch for the rare guy that comes back later to try again. One time a guy who drove a Pro2 truck in the real thing came by and bounced off the walls. I lost track of how many times he came back with a fierce determination to improve his lap time. That's the kind of person I want in the club! :D By the end of the day he was pretty good.

lfisminiz
2014.11.03, 07:21 PM
You hit the nail on the head. IF someone really has interest, they will do it. Your last 2 paragraphs said it all.

imxlr8ed
2014.11.04, 12:32 PM
Here's the real heartbreak though and it's happened to me many times...

Dusty... did the guy with the "fierce determination" become a regular?

Hope so!

I guess some just fall for this scale so hard that there is no other choice in RC or hobby... I sometimes think that we already have all of the pure Z junkies we're gonna get... it's been 10+ years, how much more exposure will it take?

I have been very lucky with my club members but I know many clubs that never had this kind of dedication... what happened for them that didn't happen here at my club?

I really think slowing the cars down will let them get more involved with the actual driving aspect of the Zs.

lfisminiz
2014.11.04, 01:02 PM
I agree, slowing might help but fast or slower, the guy still has to have the desire to want to put the effort into it. That seems to be the issue. When we had our BIG GTG....most of the guys were into the Z already. I think all enjoyed running the slowest and fastest class.....participation was pretty even amount in both with the normal 70t class the biggest.

arch2b
2014.11.04, 01:18 PM
curious, what were the qnty of lap differences between 70t and mod?

imxlr8ed
2014.11.04, 06:50 PM
Here are the lap counts for the top 3 finishes in our A-Mains in Closed Ratio, Open Ratio and Mod:

Closed: 36, 35, 35

Open: 39, 39, 38

Mod: 40, 38, 37

Basically... the top Closed Ratio finish would have been 6th place in Mod class. Close numbers but then again, this wasn't exactly a huge layout. The numbers spread as the tracks grow.

lfisminiz
2014.11.04, 07:22 PM
Here are the lap counts for the top 3 finishes in our A-Mains in Closed Ratio, Open Ratio and Mod:

Closed: 36, 35, 35

Open: 39, 39, 38

Mod: 40, 38, 37

Basically... the top Closed Ratio finish would have been 6th place in Mod class. Close numbers but then again, this wasn't exactly a huge layout. The numbers spread as the tracks grow.

Thanks Ed! :)

herman
2014.11.25, 10:10 PM
all great points / rules...

this seems like a quite simple class... but i got a couple of questions for this particular set of rules... my questions are in yellow...

We call it box stock but it is really a cheap spec class. Our best racing came from this class.

Box Stock Rules

1) Only LM bodies with their stock wing and no mods. If the wings crack or are broken they may be repaired back to the way the body came stock
3) Only LM front rims and tires
4) Any manufacturers rear rims as long as they are the same diameter and offset as the stock LM rim for the body that they are running
6) Only LM rear tires
7) No lightening of the chassis or body but weight may be added
petty cool that you are using lm bodies... was wondering if tire truing is allowed, or putting grooves in the tire? also will slight modifications inside the body be allowed? i.e. using a dremmel for fenders or light buckets that interfere with or touch the tires and or the chassis?

15) Any oils or lubes may be used as the driver sees fit for handling or performance
will comm drops be allowed in the motor? how about oil in the motor bushings? oil or grease on the kingpin?

19) Metal rear pods are legal but the ride height adjusters must be so the axle is kept in the middle of the adjustment range or as close to stock height as possible.
since you are using lm bodies, i was wondering if modification to the side body mounts/clips are allowed? modification in this sense would mean to relocate them a bit higher in the body so that the effect would be that the rear would be lowered (as they should be in the first place)... i have noticed that most (if not all) lm bodies have a high rear (with the mercedes c9 being the glaringly most evident)... and here's what i've done to fix it ---> click here (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39540&highlight=type+glue&page=2) ...in my opinion, they look so much better after relocating the side body mount / clips... it's a bit of a pet peeve... i cringe when i don't see an autoscale body done right... kyosho has come this far to come up with such beautiful bodies, only to fumble on a simple side body mount/clip placement to mess up the look of the rear fender (aaaaurrrrgh!!)... a simpler modification would be using a spacer/washers in between the motor mount and t-bar (would this simple mod be allowed as well?)

20) Any protests will need to be submitted to Gary or Mike within 10 minutes of the mains being completed. $10 will need to be submitted with the protest and the item that they feel is illegal. Gary and Mike’s findings are final. If Gary’s and Mike’s decision oppose each other than Reggie will have the final tie breaking vote. If the item is found to be illegal the protester will keep their $10 and the owner of the illegal car will lose their points and position for that night. If the item is found to be legal then the owner of the protested car gets to keep the $10.
pretty cool rule... why not add an additional penalty, pay the protester if his protest is valid... so the guy (violator) in addition to losing points, will also have to pay (the protester) a fee?... this way, racers will be more aware of the rules, and violating them will not only strip them of the points, but cost them as well... just a suggestion... to mod or not to mod... that is the question... whose answer will usually be in the rules... or be afraid not of asking when in doubt, but rather paying for the consequences in the end...

My car was stock except the T bar and bearings.
what lm car were you using and what other modifications did you do?


thanks in advance for any reply...