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View Full Version : X POWER 1/27 IMT (Indoor Mini Touring)


machgo5go
2015.03.02, 06:43 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10981515_954904144521786_8941561314860032241_n.jpg ?oh=557ab1ce2adec817aab9f7e7995221af&oe=55922494&__gda__=1434986494_e1b888f5bbf842322f65c38146b69a6 a
The NEXT WAVE!

DMALMAD
2015.03.02, 03:31 PM
what a scam. After already investing nearly 600$ for a car that is slower than a regular 2wd they realize their mistake and want to again steal our money. Not onley did they make an extra 140 dollars that they practically stole on the sensored preorder but now they are trying to steal our money again. :mad: do not recomend xpower their customer service and general attitude about the mini z market is terrible and dishonest.:mad:

Tapir
2015.03.02, 04:58 PM
what a scam. After already investing nearly 600$ for a car that is slower than a regular 2wd they realize their mistake and want to again steal our money. Not onley did they make an extra 140 dollars that they practically stole on the sensored preorder but now they are trying to steal our money again. :mad: do not recomend xpower their customer service and general attitude about the mini z market is terrible and dishonest.:mad:

So the IDT is not any good?

tommy_greeneyes
2015.03.02, 06:50 PM
:D:D:D:D Rolling on the ground laughing hard. well happy to see that newer version come out.98mm .you guys are all fast to get this car.you going to pay if you want to play.look forward to seeing the new car out soon

mleemor60
2015.03.02, 07:23 PM
what a scam. After already investing nearly 600$ for a car that is slower than a regular 2wd they realize their mistake and want to again steal our money. Not onley did they make an extra 140 dollars that they practically stole on the sensored preorder but now they are trying to steal our money again. :mad: do not recomend xpower their customer service and general attitude about the mini z market is terrible and dishonest.:mad:

That seems a bit harsh and borderline slanderous. My dealings with them have always been very cordial and above board.

It would seem that you are confusing the 1/27th scale aftermarket with the Mini-Z market. On the surface it appears that you are bothered by their marketing approach which you apparently took hook line and sinker and now have a serious case of buyers remorse for being too eager or maybe overzealous in wanting to be the first kid on the block with a new toy. Take it in stride and move on. We have all taken fits of the gotta have it "NOW" syndrome which inevitably bites us in the butt. Use it as a learning experience and in the future let somebody else be the guinea pig. Once the experimental dust has settled then you make your purchase. You will save a small fortune and learn a good lesson. You might even find a real deal when somebody like you throws the same fit and sells out cheap.

herman
2015.03.03, 04:46 AM
pretty cool that they're coming out with a 1/27 version... wondering what costing would be like...

probably a conversion kit (from 1/24 to 1/27 consisting of the cf body frame and corresponding belts for the imt) will be in the works next? wondering how much would it cost to cross over from 1/27 to 1/24 if they will offer this "conversion"...

i met the guy who owns xpower... stephen, if i remember his name right... really cool guy, got to meet him with a fun bunch of racers when i visited rcphk hong kong... seen their 1/27 scale prototype on the tracks... really quick... so i would imagine a smaller version would go even faster....

unfortunately though... their whole platform is a bit too much for my budget... :(

DMALMAD
2015.03.03, 09:13 AM
It is not harsh when you consider they charged 560 for the sensored preorder but 440 for the sensorless and then the sensored motors were only 55 dollars on their website. so you are at 490 with you choice of sensored motor and a sensorless one to boot. Not only that the lack of communication to customers is below average. It is not that I feel bad for purchasing the car, It is an overall decent design but their rapport with their N. American dealer demonstrates a lacks of care for their dealers and customers. I don't mind spending money for a good product but a product shouldnt need an imediate revision and if it does, for those who preorder and paid a large amount they should give them the revision to show their intentions to support the end users. I will still support their 2wd platform as that is proven, affordable, and never really needed an imediate revision, however X-power's deplorable actions have left me in disbelief.

mleemor60
2015.03.03, 10:28 AM
The company lists three separate "dealers" in the U.S. You state that "their" dealer doesn't communicate with "their" dealers. Could you clarify? As I previously mentioned, I have had no issues, concerns, mis communication or any other concern when dealing directly with the manufacturer's website. I have had no direct need to involve myself with the manufacturer's "dealer" network.

You are dealing with a new, highly specialized product line that is trying to create inroads into an established market. To think that there won't be bumps and pitfalls is a bit na´ve. The fact remains that you could have said "no" and taken a wait and see attitude. Instead you are attempting to stir up discord to soothe your own bruised feelings. Why not start with your selling "dealer" and have them work back through channels to resolve the situation instead of trying the character assassination approach.

DMALMAD
2015.03.04, 03:27 PM
I support local hobby shops unlike many who forget that there would be no racing without them. And from my perspective as an involved racer and avid supporter of my hobbyshop x-power does not respect the hobby shops and their customers in the way they should. That being said many other companys do have the same neglectful practises. Early on in the production of this car one of our racers here localy that speaks chinese discussed these same issues with them with the price and size of the car however no mention was made back to him about the resolutions to these issues despite him giving a large amount of neccesary feedback for the product. So before you attack my character please go and educate yourself and look in the mirror. We are talking about rc cars so please leave your personal onslaughts elsewhere.

mleemor60
2015.03.04, 05:17 PM
I had a conversation with your local shop owner earlier today. Didn't he tell you? It seems that some of the issues could be at least eased if his customer's weren't so adamant about telling the World what terrible companies they were and how little they knew about how to market their products. All of this while your shop owner is trying desperately to resolve the issues. Keep up the good work youngster.

DMALMAD
2015.03.04, 06:04 PM
What has my age got to do with anything:confused: Either way I can drive circles around most anybody:eek: so please stop making comments about me and this thread is supposed to be about the IMT not meant for arguing. If you guys have the big race down south like tommy keeps telling me you will expect for an out of towner to win everything....;) You guys can barely beat a bmainer imagine what will happen when a real racer comes to town. And with that I apolize but I am tired of your onslaughts.

As for the IMT I have heard a rumor that there MIGHT be an affordable conversion kit comming out later for the IDT so we will see:)

mleemor60
2015.03.04, 06:49 PM
Wow. I had no idea that you were such a star. Please forgive me your Majesty. I won't let it happen again.

DMALMAD
2015.03.04, 07:12 PM
All im saying is that your basing your arguement off of the fact that I am young. Even though despite my age I excell at many things that older people believe are difficult for young people to handle or excell at. One of those things being mini-z. I am a very capable racer that is able to contend with the very best at mini z therefore my age should not be the reason you ridicule me. I can understand you being upset that I said something ignorant however age is but an number and is not a factor. If I can race faster and understand building and setup better than even the most "experienced racers" why should you disregard, nay belittle my opinion and knowledge on the topic at hand. Am I not intelligent enough to understand what is right and wrong in regards to my hobby? please enlighten me what have I said to upset you so much that on any thread you openly negate everything I have to say depite the fact that what I say is based on facts and my knowledge of Mini-z is probably greater than most or probably anybody. So if you have a problem with me please PM your complaints and I will take your list of grievances under consideration but please do not humilate yourself in public with YOUR childlike behavior. Thank you and have a nice day:)

mleemor60
2015.03.04, 07:40 PM
I'll make a deal with you. If you keep beating your chest and proclaiming your own greatness I will do my best to not block your spot light. Agreed?

DMALMAD
2015.03.04, 09:57 PM
What have I done to personally anger you:confused: I am sorry if I have offended you but I am baffled by your responses.

Felix2010
2015.03.05, 01:22 AM
I love that there will be another 1/27 chassis (Hopefully) to race with all the 1/27 Mini-Z's and Atomic 1/27 AMR's and AMZ's. The 1/24 IDT looked hella cool, and the 1/27 IMT is an awesome piece of technology.

The one thing is, does the 1/10th-scale layout work well as far as weight balance goes? The motor looks like it sticks out a lot..

X-Power should be applauded for taking this new direction in Micro 1/27th and 1/24th racing. There hasn't been this kind of shakeup with Mini-Z and 1/27th scale cars since the days of Color0's brilliant MRCG and the TGR Sinister (R.I.P.)... :)

briankstan
2015.03.05, 09:32 AM
nice looking car, It looks very similar to the current 10th scale TC cars that are on the market right now. I think the design show promise for sure and I'm excited to see where this goes. My only concern is the price, it's borderline 10th scale territory and if most people would choose to spent that kind of money on a larger car.

DMALMAD
2015.03.05, 10:00 AM
The weight balance is kinda off with the motor side being much heavier as they designed it to mainly use the smaller and lighter sensorless motors. They aren't really using sensored in their local home track in HK.

Also the 1/24th and 1/27th share mostly the same parts with the ball diffs, the chassis, two of the suspension hingepin holders, and the belts being the only things changed. Everything else is shared.

arch2b
2015.03.05, 01:50 PM
this really does seem to be a golden period for chassis design. we have more chassis options on the market now than ever before at retail. while the modifier market has significantly dwindled as evident by the drop in overall forum participation, alternative chassis production seems to be creeping upward, mass produced/retail options at that. exciting times for sure. :cool: it has the unfortunate happenstance to follow a bad recession that forced may out and many to reevaluate hobby $$'s.

briankstan
2015.03.05, 02:11 PM
Thats were I'm coming from. I'd love get ones of these in a sensored setup just to mess around with with and run in an open class. Running my VE brushless car the throttle feel and smoothness is really lacking and can really be a limiting factor in driving.

I'll have to see where this goes and decide if it's something I could do or not? for the $600+ you'd be into the car after adding a body is quite and investment and trumps any amount I have in any of my cars by quite a bit. :(

for those that do have them I'm looking forward to seeing them run and would love to see a size comparison between the IMT with the lexan body and a regular mini-z with the plastic body.

What's the weight on the IMT with body? are most places running these cars staying with the 170g minimum weight or setting different rules specific to these cars?

DMALMAD
2015.03.05, 07:19 PM
IMT is not released yet but the IDT comes with the body and based on the pictures the IMT will use the same body we use for the mrx which is the same size as most asc that are 98mm. Also If you buy the sensorless version and buy the sensored motor seperate the cost is only 490 which is a much more reasonable when you consider thats about what it costs to setup a full option mr-03

We have been running the IDT (1/24th) with the AMZ for a couple of weeks and it seems that the IDT is a bit slower than the AMZ, mainly because it just doesn't rotate well due to it being so much larger. We have been running lexan bodies on the 2wd for some time now and really there is no need to restrict weight because with all the power and weight savings of the lipo we add weight as neccesary to make the car handle properly, and since the cars are already outside any rules there is no need to adhere to the 170g min wieght as that was established based on one or two companys aftermarket parts and race ready weight for their full option cars. To say the least I am very unhappy with the way X-power has gone about releasing their products but hopefully if this issue with the IMT gets resolved than the cars will perform better than anything else out there. But at this time the 2wd mrx is still the fastest 1/27th platform.

CedMan
2015.03.06, 11:59 AM
I'm one of the 'victim' of the IDT. My thoughts was that they are taking advantage of the early supporter, and I don't care what and how other thinks of this, when a company release a product, a product that is non standard in every way when it comes the the peers that you are going to be racing with, motor, chassis, and in the case of IDT, Scale, anyone who bought into this vision is an early supporter and they should not be taken advantage of.

Don't tell me 1/24 is a different class, I haven't seen another chassis in this 1/24 class that I can buy.

Yes, it's emotional, it's because someone spent ****load of money to support a company with innovative product, and yes, I'm pissed off because I feel like they take advantage of it. Come on, my chasiss had bearly arrived and they announced the 1/27 IMT? Too soon, too shady feels like someone had changed the design mid way but already had many 1/24 chassis in production.

Now, today I found out they are releasing a conversion kit for $10 to the early supporter, right thing to do with the company, I am taking back the the swear that I made a few days ago to never buy another XPower product.

Kudos to XPower for doing the right thing, Case closed. :D

DMALMAD
2015.03.06, 12:16 PM
My feelings exactly

Tammer
2015.03.06, 02:10 PM
Why even be mad at X-power to begin with? I highly doubt any body came to your house and twisted your arm, tipped you upside down and shook your wallet out, grabbed your credit card and made you make the purchase. In the 1:1 car industry new models are released all the time but people dont get bent out of shape with the manufacturer because a new version came out. In short you should not be mad at a company because you made your own decision to purchase the product that they put out.

arch2b
2015.03.06, 02:32 PM
its not different from any other product on the market. you have to know as soon as you buy it, your clock is ticking on the next best thing. i bought the iPhone 4, the 4S comes out shortly afterward... i wasn't thrilled but it's the decision one makes in making a purchase. you take you lumps for the decision made and move on. manufacturers are not required to forecast obsolescence nor do many even bother at offering a hint. in the end, it's just buyers remorse. :rolleyes: seems silly to attack the manufacturer for expanding the product line without sending you a personal notice that something else was in the pipeline.

good to hear they are offering an olive branch to those that bought into 1/24 early. i'd say that's going above and beyond myself.

cowboysir
2015.03.06, 07:48 PM
I'm one of the 'victim' of the IDT. My thoughts was that they are taking advantage of the early supporter, and I don't care what and how other thinks of this, when a company release a product, a product that is non standard in every way when it comes the the peers that you are going to be racing with, motor, chassis, and in the case of IDT, Scale, anyone who bought into this vision is an early supporter and they should not be taken advantage of.

Don't tell me 1/24 is a different class, I haven't seen another chassis in this 1/24 class that I can buy.

Yes, it's emotional, it's because someone spent ****load of money to support a company with innovative product, and yes, I'm pissed off because I feel like they take advantage of it. Come on, my chasiss had bearly arrived and they announced the 1/27 IMT? Too soon, too shady feels like someone had changed the design mid way but already had many 1/24 chassis in production.

Now, today I found out they are releasing a conversion kit for $10 to the early supporter, right thing to do with the company, I am taking back the the swear that I made a few days ago to never buy another XPower product.

Kudos to XPower for doing the right thing, Case closed. :D

My feelings exactly

I find it funny you think that's there's some sinister plot against early buyers of the 1/24 chassis.

Which do you think is more likely:

1. They built a 1/24 version knowing that they would very soon come out with a 1/27 version thereby screwing all those initial purchasers?

2. They built what they thought would be a popular size, read many comments here (and on other forums) disappointment that it wasn't true to miniz scale and resized their initial platform drawings to appease the people who don't want 1/24?

I would tend to believe the second. Since its been pointed out that it uses all the same parts and has a new belt, top deck and chassis base I would hope they realized that a niche product like this needs to have a size comparison / competitor.

Kudos to XPower for offering a conversion kit for cheap to 1/24 buyers. .. it's no skin off their noses that early buyers were too impatient to see what future changes might develop from testing.

I still don't see myself buying one in either 1/24 or 1/27. When someone designs a 1/27 chassis with awd/shaft drive/center spur and a balanced electronic layout I'll start sipping the Kool aid.

CedMan
2015.03.08, 10:38 AM
Of course Apple doesn't release the 4s as soon as someone just received the 4 right? It's a classic case to piss of your supporter, yes it's my decision and all that means is they won't get the money from me next time. Whose lost is that right?

Timing is everything, learn from the big player and you get the loyal following.

Very simple and I already said it emotional yes, it's also my money and I have all the right to be emotional about it. :)

its not different from any other product on the market. you have to know as soon as you buy it, your clock is ticking on the next best thing. i bought the iPhone 4, the 4S comes out shortly afterward... i wasn't thrilled but it's the decision one makes in making a purchase. you take you lumps for the decision made and move on. manufacturers are not required to forecast obsolescence nor do many even bother at offering a hint. in the end, it's just buyers remorse. :rolleyes: seems silly to attack the manufacturer for expanding the product line without sending you a personal notice that something else was in the pipeline.

good to hear they are offering an olive branch to those that bought into 1/24 early. i'd say that's going above and beyond myself.

arch2b
2015.03.08, 10:47 AM
ok, i can see these discussions are going no where so lets please refrain from the whole timing issue, which is a bit silly.

again, happy to learn they are giving a less cost pathway for early adopter. let us know how that works out :p

CedMan
2015.03.08, 11:37 AM
Lol indeed.

From the quality standpoint, after building the idt and own many AMZ I can say I prefer AMZ. But let's see if the idt perform any better. The electronics are stong.

machgo5go
2015.03.11, 11:18 AM
"Now, today I found out they are releasing a conversion kit for $10 to the early supporter, right thing to do with the company, I am taking back the the swear that I made a few days ago to never buy another XPower product."

https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11064753_959433324068868_1749921944579364463_n.jpg ?oh=dccb6a2d2750d193cad777b476373235&oe=5570960F
https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10425455_959433387402195_1499633405556532048_n.jpg ?oh=6d7912faf74bddcd572b26e645013b8a&oe=557D8791
https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/10422205_959433550735512_2932699699513201525_n.jpg ?oh=3f411d9aff2e0601958415442265cae1&oe=5584895C

Jshwaa
2015.04.10, 07:12 PM
Wow, that thing is sexy. Is there a vid somewhere of it performing?

DMALMAD
2015.04.10, 10:34 PM
No we are still waiting on our conversion kits to switch from IDT to IMT. The IDT is 1/24th and there is a video of it doing a couple laps on x-power's social media. But to be honest it looks a lot cooler than it drive:eek: Love the sensored motor but the atomic car always seemed faster no matter what I did:confused:. However we will see if the shorter wheelbase improves the cars responsiveness.

Jshwaa
2015.04.10, 11:28 PM
So you've messed with the brushless designs quite a bit?

Can you describe in detail the biggest shortcoming of the brushless motor setups? Are they not good at lower speeds? I've heard they are hella fast, but tricky...

DMALMAD
2015.04.11, 12:19 PM
They have no drag break! I had the kyosho ve board and tried all the different ics settings and different types of motors from different manufacturers and the biggest issue I was facing was the complete lack of drag break and the lack of smoothness in the powerband. With the higher kv motors I was using in order to stay conpetive I found myself time and time agian throwing more and more throttle curve into my radio which helped but also made me slightly slower through the infield. I was consistenty 3/10th off the pace and although I won a race with the brushless it was a constant battle and for it to be succesful It needed a very generous open layout and high levels of traction. Overall I was very dissapointed with the kyosho ve however I have tried different esc's on someone else's IDT and have found that the lack of drag break in the sensorless motors is no the motors fault but the esc's fault because a cheap and small 1/18th scale esc provided enough drag break to make the car come to a complete stop. The x-power sensored motors are really nice. They are very smooth (because they are sensored) and because they are slightly larger the loewr kv motors provide enough speed and more torque than really needed. Now if only X-power had gotten the chassis right like they did the motor and esc:p

dameetz
2015.04.11, 01:33 PM
DMALMAD, few questions if you don't mind.
- What spur gear / pinion is the IDT/IMT is using? Pitch?
- Can you give me the battery dimension? It seems that Xpower has not sell the batteries seperately (I cant find it on their site or maybe I missed it somewhere).
- Will AMZ size LiPo batt fit the chassis?
-How big is the sensored motor compare to the Atomic sensorless (AMZ) motor? -Do you think the motor it will fit in an AMZ?
- Does the sensored system has Turbo/Boost dynamic timing function?
- Has it got less noise than AMZ?
- As I understand the AMZ is better handling than the IDT?

Thanks in advance.

DMALMAD
2015.04.11, 07:28 PM
DMALMAD, few questions if you don't mind.
- What spur gear / pinion is the IDT/IMT is using? Pitch?
- Can you give me the battery dimension? It seems that Xpower has not sell the batteries seperately (I cant find it on their site or maybe I missed it somewhere).
- Will AMZ size LiPo batt fit the chassis?
-How big is the sensored motor compare to the Atomic sensorless (AMZ) motor? -Do you think the motor it will fit in an AMZ?
- Does the sensored system has Turbo/Boost dynamic timing function?
- Has it got less noise than AMZ?
- As I understand the AMZ is better handling than the IDT?

Thanks in advance.
The IDT battery is 18mm tall and as wide and long as the standard MRX battery

- The IDT is using 64 pitch gears with a 10t pinion but it was too slow with 10t so I used 14t. The spur is 53t I think
- The Amz lipo will fit the chassis but I don't think that you will be able to make run time with AMZ battery.
- The sensored system has both timing and boost functions. you can adjust level of timing and when it stops and starts and can adjust level of boost and when it stops and starts. You can also adjust drag break and drive frequency and motor direction.
- I think it has less noise than AMZ but can't confirm completely.
- I think the AMZ just has better dimension and springs available. The car is too long and wide but hopefully the IMT conversion will help balance it out. The AMZ is lighter and has better spring options as the IDT springs are too soft and the only other types we have found to fit are too hard in my opinion, I am still waiting on a option spring set hopefuly. Also IDT comes with only 1* rear toe which is too little and the option toe bars are very expensive.
- The sensored motor is 18mm diameter and 30mm long so it is slightly larger diameter than regular brushless motor. If you think about the pn motors it is as wide all the way around as the pn motor is on its round parts. If there is 2mm space between regular motor and the chassis or drive shaft on the AMZ then I think it will fit. I will confirm when I can see someone elses AMZ

Jshwaa
2015.04.12, 10:56 AM
DMALMAD,

Would you say that the present brushless controllers for R/C cars (sensored orotherwise) are built with more of an air r/c (ie quad prop) design in mind? I ask because I've never actually toyed with one outside of air r/c units. However, with cars, where your torque load is more firm and direct, I would think that the control would be difficult, as the immediate torque loads/demand are ever changing in a race environment, whereas on an air r/c's propeller the torque loads are not as direct, and a little misappropriated torque output of the motor would not be as critical, if that makes sense...

I guess what I'm asking is whether or not you feel that brushless motor control, as applied to cars, could use another look at, or do you think they are on the right track and improving as of late. Thanks.

DMALMAD
2015.04.12, 03:04 PM
Well with the sensorless motors the torque is massive and way to sudden. When compared to a brushed motor the throttle is like an on-off switch that swithces from slow to fast very abruptly. I think the sensored esc and motor are on the right track but the difference between the feel of my 1/10th tc and my 1/24th tc in terms of throttle smoothness and the ability to modulate the speed is noticable. There is no doubt about it that the higher kv motors are torque monsters but I think the esc's avialable don't really make it easy for a beginner and even experienced racers to be able to control their cars. Like anything there is always room for improvement and I haven't really seen anyone try and improve the sensorless options available and even the only sensored option could use a different throttle curve. I just wonder if the problem is more of a software issue rather than the hardware?

CedMan
2015.05.12, 10:34 PM
Finally get my conversion to IMT, and get this thing to hit to track. Out of the box this things handles much better than I thought it would be. by the end of the run I was already on the pace to challenge my lap record.

Then I broken the knuckle ... that was a very fragile design.

Now I see they have alum version of this, will have to say that ... is a must.

DMALMAD
2015.05.12, 11:56 PM
Are you using an optional spring:eek:? If so what is is it and where can I get it, I have been looking for some springs that could fit this car and the only ones that I know of I cannot get because they are from a discontinued 1/18th scale.

dameetz
2015.05.13, 12:04 PM
Finally get my conversion to IMT, and get this thing to hit to track. Out of the box this things handles much better than I thought it would be. by the end of the run I was already on the pace to challenge my lap record.

Then I broken the knuckle ... that was a very fragile design.

Now I see they have alum version of this, will have to say that ... is a must.

How does it compare to the AMZ (saw it in the pic)?

CedMan
2015.05.14, 11:32 AM
I found some springs on my box, I think they were used for the AWD rear suspension, probably from Atomic.

This thing has been more stable than the amz, which I raced exclusively for a year, and know very well. I see alot of potential, but that knuckle has to go.

CedMan
2015.05.14, 11:43 AM
Hope this helps

DMALMAD
2015.05.14, 12:48 PM
that knuckle has to go.

Tell me about it I only raced the car a couple of nights and didn't crash that frequently but ended up breaking 4 of them:rolleyes:

CedMan
2015.05.14, 03:41 PM
Oh My, I only have 2 sets and one is already on ... hope my extended bumper solution will help and the alum one coming out soon.