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byebye
2015.03.20, 11:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRu77sb9b8U&list=UURA79WZDrTbO_-pu4963OyQ

I've been working on this for some time. I picked up a DaVinci XYZ 3D printer and have been working with another member to create a cheap printable chassis.

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34527&stc=1&d=1426907586
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34528&stc=1&d=1426907589

It's in it's infant stages obviously. The design has no suspension. The electronics are not final though the HS-55 is most likely the servo of choice. I used a SkyFly GT2 Transmitter/Receiver combo and a Novak Spy that Arch2b gave me 10 years ago:p.

I managed to scoot around my home track this evening with great success. The steering rods are a bit loose but I knew this as it's just wire but it works.

The large black box is a 4xaaa holder from ratshack. The underside of the chassis is printed to hold the batteries but I had not tabs to connect them all so I just went with this to get the whole thing moving forward.

My next goal is to get an autoscale onto it. However my next endeavor will be vacuum forming a body for it. Any feedback is appreciated.

Kris

KWT
2015.03.21, 08:38 AM
Very cool.

byebye
2015.03.21, 11:21 AM
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34529&stc=1&d=1426951205
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34530&stc=1&d=1426951205

Cleaned it up a bit. I need to make a lot more adjustments but it was easier to drive fast with the batteries on the bottom.

mleemor60
2015.03.21, 11:40 AM
Now that is a classic pan car.

arch2b
2015.03.21, 11:43 AM
I saw the video :) reminds me of the early Palm runner series and the various mr-01 knock off chassis that sold for much cheaper than the Kyosho original.

I could see this being very good for rental groups where you want durability, simplicity and for low cost obviously.

Can't wait to see how the vacuum forming process works out. I was a very early adopter of lexan shells molded from model kits 10 plus years ago. I still have a few of the bodies dbr made :)

jdmgoodies
2015.03.21, 01:01 PM
anyone think about going into the designing of wheels or rims as people call them with so many tuner cars i think replicas of volk, weds, gabs, sparco, spoon, mugen. bbs. etc in diff offsets and lip depths would be a awesome additon to the car body choices

arch2b
2015.03.21, 02:02 PM
check shapeways, there are already designs available ;)

jdmgoodies
2015.03.21, 08:13 PM
i looked at shapeways but i didnt see more then 10 designs and maybe 10 offsets and tuner wheels come in 100s of designs and tons of offsets and widths

arch2b
2015.03.21, 08:55 PM
ok, are you offering to spend the countless hours modeling, submitting designs, etc.? it's easy to complain about lack of variety offered when it's someone else doing all the work... give it time, the whole industry is changing with 3d printing technology incrementally getting better in both quality and cost.

DMALMAD
2015.03.21, 10:41 PM
Ok so like ByeBye mentioned the design is still in its infancy but we have been working on this for quite a while. I have been a little sidetracked and haven't worked on the design in some time but plan to get the autoscale version ready pretty soon! So stay tuned. This chassis isn't meant to be race inspired for all out speed but rather the ultimate spec car to get beginners involved at a very reasonable price. What would you guys think about cutting holes in your precious autoscales:eek: Because rigth now I am having difficulty with the front mount. Or rather what would you think about just having one mount... which would literaly mean that everything could be spec down to the body. Just looking for some feedback.

arch2b
2015.03.21, 11:07 PM
limited body choice would be a serious handicap in my opinion. I'm not the one putting the time in on the modeling, etc. i wouldn't want to spend $50 on an autoscale only to put holes in it. not unreasonable for whitebodies though. just my opinion.

DMALMAD
2015.03.22, 01:23 AM
Yup I was thinking the same thing. I added the asc mounts to the chassis now just have to wait back and here if it works from Kris.

arch2b
2015.03.22, 11:04 AM
if i can make any recommendation, it's to reinforce the front nose clip attachment area as this is likely break due to crashes. kris just had the entire front end of an 03 break off last weekend. :p

DMALMAD
2015.03.22, 01:33 PM
Before switching to MRX I was used to replacing my chassis every 3-4 weeks, sometimes more often. And I wsa no slouch of a driver its just a very weak design. If reinforcement is neccesary than it will be added.

DMALMAD
2015.03.22, 01:44 PM
anyone think about going into the designing of wheels or rims as people call them with so many tuner cars i think replicas of volk, weds, gabs, sparco, spoon, mugen. bbs. etc in diff offsets and lip depths would be a awesome additon to the car body choices

Making rims with 3d printing in mind is pretty difficult. I had a go at making some dish rims and even that was pretty difficult. Not only is it difficult to get the rims to look like the real thing but also to be structurally sound is also very challenging. This is why I leave rim making to the profesinals as it really is quite challenging.

jdmgoodies
2015.03.22, 04:25 PM
about how much time does it take to take a 1-1 scale rim and covert it into a mini-z size wheel with diff offsets? cause ive been curious to know how hard and time consuming it is. reason being is i used to have people in other countries design a website for a friend or me for pennies on the dollar literaly and the sites would take 100's of hours depending on skill of the person. i wouldnt mind paying someone in the phillipines or china to do all the time and work at a fraction of what it would cost in the usa

DMALMAD
2015.03.22, 05:32 PM
It really depends on the person. Personally I couldn't say as I am not a profesional this is just something I do for fun. I am sure that you could find somebody to do the modeling work for you but I am not sure if there is really a market for the amount of time and money it would take to compile all the various types of wheels. Most people who are buying large amounts of rims are looking for race performance and not looks. That is why I personaly prefer the delrin dish rims. They don't look realistic but are durable and light weight. Honestly if this was something you really cared about you could get a free cad program and spend the time drafting the wheels yourself. It would be time consuming but like I always say a man on a mission is impossible to stop.:)

arch2b
2015.03.22, 05:59 PM
he's 100% right. the tricky bit is the scale doesnt translate well to wheels and you typically loose much of the detail in order to maintain strength of the wheel. the material choice is equally limiting. aluminum has min. radius, etc. for end mills and 3d printing has limitations on resolution and thickness of the material you can print (not too thin).
simply put, there is a reason you don't find extensive aftermarket replica lines in mini-z wheels. it's expensive to do, and takes time. time = money in a business as well.

if you want to find out what the cost is, simply contact any of the shapeways creators and pay for a design to be made up for shapeways production.

we rarely ever see a chassis broken at the nose. on occasion you crack a screw point but in all my years i've seen maybe 3-4 break as Kris's car did. being a lesser cost entry product, your market is going to be less experienced drivers that will be subjecting the cars to an inordinate amount of abuse. i look forward to seeing how this prototype performs over time. :)

jdmgoodies
2015.03.22, 06:35 PM
how about cnc same amount of time? just diff machine and materials cost?

arch2b
2015.03.22, 06:44 PM
check out the cost of Square, AVM and other high quality, high design wheels as a guestimate. they are not cheap.

jdmgoodies
2015.03.22, 06:57 PM
is it possible to 3d scan a kyosho mini-z wheel already made and make a 3d print of it and alter the offset if wanted?

DMALMAD
2015.03.22, 09:09 PM
I am pretty sure but you would need a 3d scanner and a program to convert the file type. If all you were doing is adjusting offset that could probably be done with a free cad program but the cost of the scanner and other software probably is more expensive than getting some decent software and maybe paying for a semminar or crash course type class for computer aided drafting. Anyways lets try and get a little bit back on track, what do you guys think about 1s lipo in these things? Just an idea as an alternative version to save some space, slow the car down, and to add more reinforcements. I have a 750 1s lipo that is pretty small, do you think that would be enough for the electronics because I think at that voltage some sort of booster would be neccesary. Anyway just spitballing.

byebye
2015.03.23, 06:36 AM
is it possible to 3d scan a kyosho mini-z wheel already made and make a 3d print of it and alter the offset if wanted?

No. Well at least not with off the shelf tech.

You have to draw it up.

byebye
2015.03.23, 06:48 AM
about how much time does it take to take a 1-1 scale rim and covert it into a mini-z size wheel with diff offsets? cause ive been curious to know how hard and time consuming it is. reason being is i used to have people in other countries design a website for a friend or me for pennies on the dollar literaly and the sites would take 100's of hours depending on skill of the person. i wouldnt mind paying someone in the phillipines or china to do all the time and work at a fraction of what it would cost in the usa

That's the missing link and the difference between consumer and manufacturer. I'm trying to do both at some point in my life but as mentioned by arch2b it's costly.

Im not afraid to spend a few bucks which is why I bought the printer and reached out to dmalmad based on some of the work he's posted. It's cool to see our ideas come to life.

imxlr8ed
2015.03.23, 11:40 AM
Been following this thread, best advice I can give...

Draw everything at first...
Challenge yourself to create everything and almost anything on your own in any type of software available! When the thought process becomes second nature as to your next steps in the modeling process you will then be allowed to concentrate on the things that really matter!

Make time...
It is tough to just rattle off parts that will work the first time. Take the time to see as many possible parameters as possible and make sure that the ones that will matter, will work! The parts that have existed and still do exist for these cars are mostly engineering masterpieces so you're up against a huge amount of expectation from possible customers. If your parts are off .020"... you'll hear about it! Fall in love with measuring things... and re-measuring things... and then when you think you've got it, go back and measure it again!

Printing parts... learn the tech...
I have had many conversations about this new wave of "Parts Printing"... and I despise how some just think it's the latest and greatest, Easy Bake oven for anything nowadays. Learn about the process involved, learn about the mechanics of it, know how your materials work. If you don't have a basic knowledge of it, you will lose possible advantages afforded to you!

Scanning isn't always what it seems...
Scanning can work but it's not always the best answer. At work I deal with full size passenger compartments and when we have used scan data or CCM data, it almost always has certain parameters to it that get us close to solutions but never to the exact answer. I now think of it as a tool to make sure that we are in the ballpark. Point clouds and surface data are great but can be extremely time consuming to utilize. Better to have the design done and then use the fancy stuff to double check your overall data.


That's really about it!
Keep innovating and keep pushing the limits! I am still struggling with some new designs lately and I'm waiting for the inspiration flame to get a bit brighter once again. I have some rough mounts designed but if they don't do at least one thing better than the competition out there, I won't finish them. Right now its a bummer that I can't get thinner sidewalls with Shapeways, but then again I wouldn't want weak areas in my parts. Give and take as always with certain designs, sometimes it's fun... sometimes it's a pain! :rolleyes:

Side note: I'm very happy with my latest batch of wheel designs, very light, very flexible too but they do go right back to their original shape quite well. Wish I raced more so I could give a definitive answer on their true durability (drop test may be in order soon!).

byebye
2015.03.29, 03:30 PM
All great points imxlr8ed! It's nice right now to print, test, redraw etc...

I was able to install the Amazon ESC and clean up the wiring a bit. I took it to the club race yesterday and showed it off. Ran a couple laps but without a body I'm leery to give it any speed though it's pretty fast with the lipo battery.

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34545&stc=1&d=1427657096
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34546&stc=1&d=1427657096
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34543&stc=1&d=1427657096
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34544&stc=1&d=1427657096

I think I want to ditch the AAA printed slots and just leave a void large enough for a plastic generic AAA holder. It will just be a "bay" of sorts to put whatever battery configuration you want.

You can also see it's not level. Yet another detail to work out amongst other details to fine tune.

I'm going to make new tie rods out of strips of sheet aluminum. I've yet to fit a body but DMALMAD has sent a new one that has front and side mounts. I'm going to ask to have the rear separate and may even have it compatible with the mini-z T-plate and rear pod just for ease of use.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. This has been a fun project and a long time coming from commercial manufacturing to home design and manufacturing. A HUGE THANKS! to DMALMAD for putting my thoughts to design.