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View Full Version : November 12, 2016 - HFAY S22 Race 9-10


arch2b
2015.12.26, 05:20 PM
November 12, 2016 - HFAY S22 Race 9-10

This will be held at Hobby Works in Fairfax, Virginia

we will be running HFAY # .

http://www.howfastareyou.com/hfayprod/static/uploads/tracks.picture.a5fc76453c8adb7e.484641592d54726163 6b2d31352e6a7067.medium.jpg

arch2b
2016.10.11, 07:35 AM
FYI, HFAY has confirmed MHS or Pro series is permitted just in case anyone with a pro series MR-03 or MA-020 are looking to run it in HFAY.

clock is ticking on season 22... be sure to prep for a good close out to the season!

arch2b
2016.10.31, 07:51 AM
just a reminder, not this weekend but next weekend...

Looking to close out Season 22 with a good performance :D everyone continues to improve and hope to keep our steady march of club members up the HFAY rankings. :cool:

poochy
2016.11.06, 12:07 PM
Hi does anybody local have a whitebody 787 for sale? I would like to use it for thus race.

arch2b
2016.11.06, 12:10 PM
if none are available, you can borrow the demo 787 body. :cool:

poochy
2016.11.06, 04:28 PM
Thank you Ray!

arch2b
2016.11.06, 07:32 PM
there was discussion the last race of opening up a new class; 94mm, PN3500KV motor class. this could be in rotation with our 86-90mm open class giving us another class to run when participation numbers allow. The discussion was to restrict this further to a specific 94mm white body and while i have no problem with that, it has not proven to get wide acceptance in the past incarnations. body types that were mentioned were ferrari 430 gtc or 360 gtc, both easily available and hobby works would stock these if needed. it would be limited to white body, which could be painted if desired but focused on least expensive entry cost vs. an autoscale. the balance of options would be an open class in my opinion as we already have a stock class, a true mod class, HFAY class and 86-90mm open class.

depending on chassis selection, this could be a HFAY legal car as well meaning you wouldn't need a separate car for this class.

looking for everyone chime in! like it, not like it, indifferent?

poochy
2016.11.06, 10:01 PM
A class for hard core miniz guys without too much speed. Trying to create an easy driving, low maint., and close racing stock class.

How bout a 3500kv LM class
Using the new PN chassis
Any ball diff but i rather we agree on one kind
Dtx 750 aaa batteries
Any rear pod/dampening system but i rather we agree o one kind
Aluminum knuckles allowed..but lets agree on one
Tplate holder can be aliminum..agree on one
Toyota gt1 whitebody/painted or stock body, stock windshield
Stock springs
30/20 LM tires
6t/44t stock kyosho pinion and spur,
no sauce,
#5 pn carbon fiber tplate
stock ve ics setting
Tire tape only
No tire warmer
Aby diff, damper plate, and king pin lube
Bearings allowed

arch2b
2016.11.07, 08:18 AM
we really should avoid class overlap, experience has shown that when there are classes very close in style, it only reduces participation in the long run. Remnant has a good set of classes that work well for them and do not want to siphon that off or duplicate programs given the proximity to each other. I am equally devoted to seeing the garage succeed as hobby works. :D

the toyota LM body is for the most part, one of the least favorite among the LM choices but LM spec is not a bad idea but here are the downsides i see with it; to homogeneous (all classes are dominated by LM currently), further reduces diversity in racing categories by again pushing 102mm because it's the simple choice and easiest to learn (not an issue to begin with if really want hard core racers to participate).

We already have an easy driving, low maintenance, and close racing stock class... it's our stock class and it doesn't get any lower in maintenance, least cost and closer racing than this. Our stock program is influenced by being in a retail setting vs. a stand alone location. What works for RMNT isn't necessarily the best fit for us and vs. versa. I find this to be a great strength in our area that we can tailor the classes to each setting for optimal results and still find common ground to participate jointly. :cool:

the issue with getting the hard core guys has never been close racing, it has been going slower :o This is why you rarely see clubs with stock classes to begin with and if you do, less participation from the top down in stock classes. DC happens to be progressive in this regard that we have good participation from the top down which, in my opinion, serves to raise the bar from the bottom up, thereby making us all better as we all improve as a result. The insight, experience, knowledge shared from the top down through this process is, in my opinion, invaluable and a large part of our success.

I know there are some, including myself, that are interested in a detailed spec class such as the one you have proposed. We've tried it many times in various forms and haven't yet hit that sweet spot that creates something unique enough that it's not taking away from HFAY, stock or MOD (all core classes in our program) and enough interest to generate enough participation to field heats/mains. this is one reason 94mm was mentioned, it's not uncommon but not common enough for everyone to have something setup in this wheelbase. it's a challenge for just about everyone to step outside 98/102mm. not as much as the 86-90mm class, but would be similar.

ultimately, we are also looking to find a pathway to get brushless into stock class as Kyosho has made it clear, this is the direction the line is going. at the moment however all VE are marketed and built as upgrade platforms and in stock forum clearly way above the stock brushed kits which is they are not permitted in our stock class. we've all been waiting for kyosho to release a true stock class motor and currently the blue bell is best we have which is really 70t equivalent. all are hoping the PN 3500KV will be a better match however this raises the issue of then having to permit additional aftermarket parts to even utilize them and pushes us that much farther from a box stock class. unless we can get the pn motor into a stock pod...(can the kyosho VE motor case[it's sold separatly] fit a PN motor?) we are not 'box' stock now but by comparison to other 'stock' programs, it's the closest your going to get likely. I don't know of any club running a 100% box stock program. Stock for us needs to remain as close to stock as practical. every step away from that is another step toward HFAY really.

just my thoughts/opinions :)

poochy
2016.11.07, 12:27 PM
Ray i agree with just bout everything you said.
Except the current stock class is not a good class for hard cores. Bc the stock chassis plastic strips, kyosho motor burns out quick, the bodies rub the tires, and left turns are no good due to "diff bias"...eventually the arms and wires will break....too much maintenance. Its great for newbs only

Im a proponnt of pure mod but i understand the hobby is too hard to enjoy for everybody.

The hfay class is messed up bc they allow 5600kv abd 5500kv motors..its basically a mod motor

arch2b
2016.11.07, 01:37 PM
my opinion differs in that practical experience with stock class for some time now would point to the contrary. care is needed with any stock plastic chassis and stock Philips screws. that has been a constant since 1999. you can put in stainless hex head screws if you wish. out of the total number of participants, relatively few stock motors have burn out. i would put the average just under what you see in 70t motors. I've replaced my motor once since the class started. I cannot count the number of times i've bumped up 2-4 mains in stock class and seldom if ever have an issue. we have also reduced the duration for mains to further reduce strain on the stock motors as while i've not had many issues with the stock motors, other on occasion do as is normal/expected in build tolerance of any brushed motor line. even the 70t motors have noticable variation in heat gain/performance. were allowed some leeway in wheels/tires for proper fitment. you don't need to run the autoscale wheels, the offsets should be within the spirit of the autoscale meaning don't stuff +3 where +1 is supposed to be used. i don't recall any real complaints about diff bias, certainly doesn't seem to effect the top drivers much if at all given they put up numbers comparative to the MOD class results. the lap gaps between stock and MOD are not large. it's actually less maintenance than HFAY. all you have to do is take care of your batteries and check knuckles and t plates frequently. other than that, most don't do much if anything to the cars. crakcing knuckles has by far proven to be the biggest issue and HW keeps these stock and someone always has a replacement if one is needed. i've never seen someone not be able to continue to race as a result of breaking a knuckle or t plate due to lack of parts. breaking the nose clip off the chassis, is another story but someone always comes through when needed. i always keep extra stock part should they be needed with the demonstration fleet.

again, stock class is not meant to cater to the top tier. It's an entry level class that allows people to shop and race at the store and bring them into the fold of higher level classes at a time that is right for the individual. what makes out stock class stand out is that many of the top tier participate which is invaluable lesson/tutoring/mentoring to the less experienced. Not everyone participates, John for example doesn't run stock class. he simply prefers faster classes, which is fine and why we also have HFAY and MOD. HFAY had to move to accept brushless as well, which is why you have the KV limit on VE motors in HFAY. It has to evolve with the market. this being said, take a look at all the top drivers, they are still running brushed. it's clear after a year with adopting VE in HFAY that it has not lead to or created a performance gap that was anticipated. the results have shown there is no overwhelming advantage to a VE motor in 2 wide l HFAY layouts. i would love to push for VE restrictions to be lowered if anything. the current rules were designed around what was available on the market at the time. since then KV options have probably doubled. it's certainly within the realm of possibility that HFAY may re-evaluate the current restrictions.

I will continue to argue that doing well in stock will only make you better in other classes as it teaches the basics/principals of what it takes to do well. that is applicable to the experienced driver as much as it is to the beginner. setting up the fastest car will not make you win. getting the fastest lap on the track doesn't mean anything in the end but getting your name in pink on the monitor if you can't string them together consistently to win. the fastest car is more often than not, not the winner of the race. stock class routinely sees gaps of 8 laps or less from top to bottom in a main which is remarkable whereas the gap in HFAY can be as much as 10-20 laps.

Mod class has it's place, always has and always will but it's just not everyone's cup of tea, just stock is not. it's not that it's too hard. not everyone prioritizes needing to be the fastest or making a car that can go faster than can be realistically controlled in the environment it's being used, or cares to spend hours tinkering with a complex setup. we cannot cater to one at the dispense of the other and maintain growth. i've been running the club since 2004 and experience has proven a healthy stock class promotes participation in and growth of other classes. I continue to run HFAY chassis in MOD and do well in my opinion. I've watched saint run his stock car in MOD and run up the mains with it, a stock car...
the beauty of MOD class is, everyone gets to put on the track, whatever makes them happy, regardless of what that is and compete against each other. its a hodge podge mix of stock, HFAY, MOD, aftermarket kits, pan cars, you name it, chances are it's been put on the track. it's fantastic and i thoroughly enjoy it.

mleemor60
2016.11.07, 03:32 PM
As an honorary member and occasional competitor with the DCGTG let me provide a little Mini-Z 101 for hardcores or noobs for that matter.

When starting with any new "Z" part that is going to have a screw installed there are very fundamental rules. The first time a screw is installed in a new hole there is no concern save over tightening. Once the screw has been removed and is to be re installed, simply rotate the screw counter clockwise until it drops into the existing threads(you can feel it drop in) then tighten. Unless you are a total hamfist you will never strip a screw hole. The alternative is to take the new part and tap the holes for the appropriate machine screw then when you absent mindedly strip the machine screw you can then start using the self tappers. I have seen more stripped screw heads than screws over the years since "racers" won't think twice about spending the house payment on the latest bling but then turn around and go to Harbor Freight to find the cheapest tools they can. The screwdriver that is sold through Kenon isn't the best available but is very user friendly and as long as you don't make it serve double duty as a "punch" it will never let you down.

arch2b
2016.11.07, 03:59 PM
it is very easy to strip a new out of the box stock Phillips screw:o especially at the t plate where they tend to get installed really tight. i've done this many times just trying to back out the screw for the first time. the stock screws are cheap soft aluminum and easily damaged, especially with a poor fitting screw driver. i do not like the PN philips screw drive, the Kyosho mini-z tool kit model is much better but still not perfect. it pains me to say this but the xmods tool kit was excellent fit and excellent value for the money.
i find it much harder to strip the hex head screws which is why i change mine over when time/patience allows. i usually just buy the stainless vs. more expensive Ti variety so the cost isn't an issue. it's more of a convenience factor for me as i tend to be hamfisted when it comes to getting them out. the trick with backing them out to get them in works though :p makes it so much easier to get them in. if i hit resistance, i know i didn't seat the screw properly.

arch2b
2016.11.11, 08:24 AM
no comments other than Don? I'll solicit comments this Saturday for those uncomfortable sharing them here. We would be running more open classes such as 86-90mm if we had more time on stock days. Please excuse my pushiness throughout the day, i try to wrap up at 5pm as that seems to be the magic hour for most. There just isn't time on HFAY days due to keeping the mains to 3 for best possible HFAY ranking results. stock/mod days we try to keep it to 4-5.

arch2b
2016.11.13, 11:23 AM
another good turn out! lots of very good races and exciting finishes :D don't forget the HFAY BTE will wrap up our 2016 schedule.