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Blf
2016.04.03, 05:55 PM
Hi all - new to F1 but not to mini z at all!

Picked up an MF-015 chassis and bought the PN lcg mount but wondered if there is a preferred shock to use in tandem? I also have the R246 on the way too and will choose between them. Which is preferred and why?

Have KS tires, bearings, ball diff and the bottom bumper with IC tag on the way as well ! Excited to get it on my track!

BTW there is only ONE in tag option for both mf010 and mf015 right? I'm assuming it's same dimensions between the two incarnations

RussF
2016.04.04, 04:26 PM
I run the Kyosho Friction Shock Set (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=20554) with the Kyosho F1 Rear Shock Set (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=16554), and the Kyosho Carbon Fiber Side Plates (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=18626).

I also like the PN Racing F1 Motor Mount (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=19124&cat=0&page=1). Its all kinda old school but works well.

cowboysir
2016.04.04, 07:38 PM
I have 2 alloy mounts as well and I find that I use the heavier of the 2 for fast flowing tracks and the lighter for twister tracks. The less weight helps the F1 rotate and turn in when things are on the tight side.

I'm a big fan of kyosho frp side plates with the Kyosho f1 disc damper on my stock F1 and my mod has a cool Tri shock design I borrowed from hrdrvr (a member here) with some sweet Mantisworks frp T-plate/battery cover combo. It's easily the best driving F1 I've ever built. It has a 50T motor but it's so predictable I could really go with more power.

EMU
2016.04.06, 04:26 PM
I haven't driven an f1 in quite a while... But I will agree with cowboy on using a heavier motor mount for high speed flowing tracks, and a lighter one for twisty tracks.

My reasoning is a little different though, I will explain...

In general, the setups will be designed for 2 different driving approaches... The first is momentum, second is driving hard into the corner, slowing, rotating, and accelerating hard out of the corner. My choice of motor mount is actually the opposite of what I would typically use for eact application.

Heavier motor mounts. Transfer the center of weight further back will give a little extra traction on throttle, giving a little push, however, add rotation of throttle into the corners. While a lighter rear has more neutral feeling, more rotation on throttle, and less rotation into the corner.

So you would think that a high speed momentum track would benefit more from a lighter mount, and the opposite for a tight track.

The reason that I chose the mounts, is primarily due to tire options. I will typically use a more aggressive front tire on a tighter track, with less motor and stiffer front springs. On a larger track, I will run a softer overall spring, with a little push on the front end.

This is also something that is personal preference... So I suggest testing out what you have, and seeing what works best for you.

I typically prefer disc dampers, to the Kyosho friction damper, but almost always use a top spring to reduce sag, and rarely ever used side springs when using side plates. I found that they would be inconsistent and induce tweak in the car.

There are many very small things I the setup of the f1 too get it to run well, but when dialed in, it's the most fun type of car to drive.

Blf
2016.04.06, 06:48 PM
Thanks for all the info Russ, Cowboy & EMU!!

Going to be running on this track - would this be considered a "tight track" (maybe a little bigger than this pic but basically the same):

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/BLF38/IMG_20160328_0044073_zpskexspyfo.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/BLF38/media/IMG_20160328_0044073_zpskexspyfo.jpg.html)

EMU
2016.04.06, 07:34 PM
It's medium, but more on the tight side.

High speed layouts typically use more wide radius inside corners, and carry much more corner speed than the one you have.

For a very experienced racer, we're talking about a difference of a few tenths of a second per lap as far as the difference in motor mount... What I was trying to show was that the difference in motor mount for me, was a different setup approach to the entire setup.

With an identical setup, the motor mount difference is relatively minor, but it is there. Parts for the f1 aren't as plentiful as they once were, so my advice is to find parts that are available, and work your setup around over them.

In general, soft side plates, or t-plate if applicable are necessary. Soft or medium top shock spring, preloaded to remove sag, and prevent battery tray from bottoming out, since I remove side springs. Dds soft top, medium bottom spring on flowing track, opposite on tight. Light grease on discs.

I like a 1 degree front knuckle. 0 or 1d toe in. Yellow/hard front spring to start, medium if needed.

I'm not very current on tire choices, but I always liked Kyosho 20 rear, with slick 30 front for tight tracks, and team23 for large tracks.

I am not sure if you have access to a tire truer, but that would be one of the biggest investments you can get off you want to dial in the car quickly. The radial fronts are typically too much bite, and I true the grooves off, or almost off and then just drive many laps to break them in. One set of front tires can last 10 sets of rear.

I glue the inside and outside bead to the wheel, and use tire tape on the flat part of the wheel. You don't want the tire moving on the wheel. I do this on both front and rear. Front I may glue the outside sidewall higher if it still has too much bite. But that is less effective on f1 than racer... However glued up sidewalls tend to grab rcp rails less than unglued.

Definitely get one of these front bumpers, and wings...
http://www.shapeways.com/product/9FAYKXYJU/2-4-f1-bumper?li=shop-results&optionId=43538909
http://www.shapeways.com/product/VHVWTNX5V/f1-rear-wing-1?li=shop-results&optionId=41005160

They are by far the best things to use. The Kyosho are very fragile. You can glue up the sides of the bumper a little so they grab the rails less... But I didn't have issues with it.

lfisminiz
2016.04.06, 08:29 PM
you can use a Kyosho top shock. You can also use the PN duel top shock. Theres a piece for the PN shock on Shapeways to mount PN shock. Should be under JRP racing (Jesse Racing Products.) Like EMU said, strong front bumper and rear wing is a must.

Blf
2016.04.09, 06:11 AM
Awesome guys ---- thanks for all the info as I'm not familiar with this class. Again, have a lot of the parts mentioned ready to go, just haven't even opened anything up yet :)

Again, I'll take all this into consideration and will report back --- what would I do without the forum!

Blf
2016.04.09, 06:21 AM
It's medium, but more on the tight side.

High speed layouts typically use more wide radius inside corners, and carry much more corner speed than the one you have.

For a very experienced racer, we're talking about a difference of a few tenths of a second per lap as far as the difference in motor mount... What I was trying to show was that the difference in motor mount for me, was a different setup approach to the entire setup.

With an identical setup, the motor mount difference is relatively minor, but it is there. Parts for the f1 aren't as plentiful as they once were, so my advice is to find parts that are available, and work your setup around over them.

In general, soft side plates, or t-plate if applicable are necessary. Soft or medium top shock spring, preloaded to remove sag, and prevent battery tray from bottoming out, since I remove side springs. Dds soft top, medium bottom spring on flowing track, opposite on tight. Light grease on discs.

I like a 1 degree front knuckle. 0 or 1d toe in. Yellow/hard front spring to start, medium if needed.

I'm not very current on tire choices, but I always liked Kyosho 20 rear, with slick 30 front for tight tracks, and team23 for large tracks.

I am not sure if you have access to a tire truer, but that would be one of the biggest investments you can get off you want to dial in the car quickly. The radial fronts are typically too much bite, and I true the grooves off, or almost off and then just drive many laps to break them in. One set of front tires can last 10 sets of rear.

I glue the inside and outside bead to the wheel, and use tire tape on the flat part of the wheel. You don't want the tire moving on the wheel. I do this on both front and rear. Front I may glue the outside sidewall higher if it still has too much bite. But that is less effective on f1 than racer... However glued up sidewalls tend to grab rcp rails less than unglued.

Definitely get one of these front bumpers, and wings...
http://www.shapeways.com/product/9FAYKXYJU/2-4-f1-bumper?li=shop-results&optionId=43538909
http://www.shapeways.com/product/VHVWTNX5V/f1-rear-wing-1?li=shop-results&optionId=41005160

They are by far the best things to use. The Kyosho are very fragile. You can glue up the sides of the bumper a little so they grab the rails less... But I didn't have issues with it.

We use the Kyosho lap timer and IC tags that go on MF19 clear bumper. Will I be able to use the Shapeways front bumper in conjunction or is it redundant

Blf
2016.04.09, 06:24 AM
I was thinking about a tire truer and wondered if the PN one is best? What size extension/bit is needed for our MR-03 Mini Z sized wheels?

lfisminiz
2016.04.09, 10:14 AM
PN tire truer is excellent. What you need comes with for 03, F1, awd tires. Just need power supply.

Blf
2016.04.10, 04:43 PM
PN tire truer is excellent. What you need comes with for 03, F1, awd tires. Just need power supply.

What kind of power supply ? One of my 2s lipo? Seems weird to have to do that - can't you just plug into ac power? What a out the Hudy truer with the PN tools for red mini z wheels ?

cowboysir
2016.04.10, 07:25 PM
I use the Hudy with pn adapter for mini z wheels and I use a 2 cell lipo to power it. I find (at least with the Hudy ) that a 12v power supply spun the truer too fast and tended to fry the tire as you tried to true it very carefully. The 7.4v lipo has got enough speed to do the job without overdoing it.

I imagine the PN truer could function the same.

lfisminiz
2016.04.10, 07:43 PM
Yes 7.4 lipo works. When i used the power supply i used a Trinity or MuchMore motor machine to control the voltage...i think around 6V. A lipo is much simpler and less stuff to carry.

Blf
2016.04.11, 01:08 AM
So it's as easy as just clipping the two black and red clips from truer directly to their corresponding banana plugs coming out of a 2s 7.4v?

What are the motor power supplies you are speaking of that can have output adjusted? Do you have a link?

I definitely need one that can do f1 and maybe awd as well. Does the hudy have attachments for those or only PN 2wd?

And any other tips on using them or amounts to take off KS tires which are all I'm using now ?

Thanks again guys for helping me squeeze every ounce out of these cars!

Blf
2016.04.11, 01:43 AM
zAnyone know the difference in the two at the bottom ? The 103100 and the 103200?

http://www.hudy.net/xhudy/products/product_main.php?kategoria=62

I'm assuming the 103200 will accept the PN tool for mini z tires ? Are they power requirements different?

Thanks guys

cowboysir
2016.04.11, 07:53 PM
The xxx100 is the one I have the xxx200 seems to have some sort of alloy drum mounted to where the tire grinding takes place. Maybe to do 1/xx tires without mounting to rims?

Anyhow they seem to be the same other than that so.....

You are correct in saying banana clips to pos and neg of lipo is all you need. The PN adapter is for 2wd only but you can sorry of make awd wheels work if you're careful. If you want ease of use with all wheel types of go with the pn truer.

lfisminiz
2016.04.11, 10:03 PM
Front tires for 03, I usually true them to about 22.5 mm.
I'll have to see what I can find on motor master. Still easier and less equipment using lipo. I have a Hudy and PN. Both very good but PN does it all....2wd and awd.

Blf
2016.04.12, 05:29 AM
Great info again guys - understand all points but will the hudy with the the pn attachment do both mr03 and f1?

Seems like the PN is more convenient but I've always liked hudy stuff

cowboysir
2016.04.12, 08:38 AM
The Hudy with the PN attachments will do 2wd wheels so both F1 and MR series.

There are some F1 front wheels that don't have notches so trueing is tricky....

Blf
2016.04.12, 03:58 PM
The Hudy with the PN attachments will do 2wd wheels so both F1 and MR series.

There are some F1 front wheels that don't have notches so trueing is tricky....

Ahhh so: http://www kenonhobby com/PN-Racing-Mini-Z-Hudy-Tire-Truer-Tools-Kit-For-2WD-Wheel_p_43093.html

will work for f1 wheels too as long as they are notched ? I noticed the stock wheels that came on the 32110 Chassis, at least the fronts, don't have notches ....

neoneo1neo
2016.05.10, 02:16 PM
i've heard from some local guys here that the kyosho fiction damper system doesn't really work at all, and was recommend the 3racing roll damper system which is also much cheaper. any inputs between the 2?
the 3racing one more look like a traditional disc damper for those 1/27 rwd mini-z racers, the kyosho one looks neat too, so i just want to hear what everyone say about them

EMU
2016.05.27, 12:47 PM
I have used the Kyosho friction, atomic dds, 3racing few... They all work well. Track conditions can favor one over the other, and slight modifications have to be made to the body depending on damper/motor mount choice for clearance.

The Kyosho allows the last articulation of the three, but still a viable option depending on how much spring and stiff you run the rear end, and what grade2you run on the plates.