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Blf
2016.07.05, 12:46 AM
Hey guys - I've been running mini z and dnano for a little while now and still don't get how some cars are relatively easy to set up to turn at speed in somewhat similar left and right arcs but still am chasing why one of mine will turn consistent in one direction but then absolutely lose traction to the point of snapping around 180 degrees when you give it the same throttle in the opposite direction?

I've tried diff settings, tires, rear carrier bearings, diff bearings, geese on dp

One car is doing it one way and the one f1 is doing it in opposite direction - I think it has something to do with suspension compression or lack thereof on one side.

Please share any expert expierience with this and solutions if poss

Thanks!

cowboysir
2016.07.05, 09:35 AM
The F1 will be really hard to diagnose because any little detail out of whack will cause chassis tweak and spin it on throttle....it could even come down to something basic like wire position rubbing against the body.

As for the 03 (?), I'd suggest the first check is the t plate condition. Whenever I have issues with a rwd on good tires I find swapping the t plate fixes it.

Mike Keely
2016.07.07, 09:09 PM
Are you using tire tape to tape the tires to the rims? The tire compounds are so soft now that the outside edge of the tire will start to roll up when you make a turn. I like the Kyosho 246 tire tape the best.

arch2b
2016.07.08, 07:26 AM
i've had similar issues with racers and F1 in the past. i've long since quit F1 as a result of their finicky nature and in my experience with the racers, check the chassis for tweak as well. ultimately, when i changed motor pod and t plate, my issues went away. i can only surmise the motor pod was tweaked after much abuse. my case is in no way a blueprint to a cure, i just started running down the list of things to eliminate such as; chassis tweak, t plate, motor pod, damper, diff, diff axle, knuckles, bearings, tires. it was an experience of pure frustration for sure. even if parts are new, still check. not unrealistic to have received a less than perfect part, it happens.

please continue to share your trials, errors and success.

Blf
2016.07.10, 06:00 AM
So after changing every setting on the F1 exhibiting this problem to the exact set up of my other F1 (that's working well the moment) - turns out it was the LAST thing I changed - TIRES

Rears, both brand new KS super soft, when switched left/right, it immediately started to jack knife the opposite direction

Something interesting I noticed it's that different bodies on the mr03's can sometime tweak the chassis so you have to reset sub trim / trim when changing

Blf
2016.07.14, 05:47 PM
Well --- its back again .... with the new tires ..... I changed again to a new set and even used the Kyosho inner foam tape for the rears to eliminate that the KS tires were flexing ..... this is driving me nuts and I can see why Arch stopped if this was what he was dealing with.

Are these issues with the KS tires ??? Should I try other rears? I'm on RCP BTW

Any help would be great?

mleemor60
2016.07.14, 06:29 PM
Totally unfamiliar with what KS tires are. Just for giggles, loosen the two screws that attach the rear pod to the suspension plates. Not a lot but just until you can feel the looseness. Report back after you try it. Also try it with Kyosho rears as well as the ones you are using.

Have you tried Kyosho 40 front tires with the rears you have been using?

Blf
2016.07.14, 08:12 PM
I will try that - the KS tires are the new compound from PN. I just can't get enough rear grip. I can "pump" the throttle, letting off on turns to get some bit before getting on my power but just "let go" all the sudden if you stay on power
Have not used the kyosho tires. I'm using KS Firm in front and soft or super soft in rear. Same symptom regardless of rear compound

What are the grippiest rears? I see mini club of Canada sells the Marka v1 10 degree rears - could that be the solution? I'm really felling like it's tire related

Thanks again guys for all the info

Blf
2016.07.14, 08:15 PM
BTW - I have yellow hard Springs in front, 0 toe bar, PN motor mount, ball diff, FRp side plates , no side Springs and pitching inner tube top shock

cowboysir
2016.07.14, 09:12 PM
I cannot comment on PN KS tires (yet) butKyosho 20 slick rears are super consistent batch to batch and ive never had tweak issues that were tire related. I'm only using a pn 70t so i've never over powered my grip....

mleemor60
2016.07.14, 10:44 PM
BTW - I have yellow hard Springs in front, 0 toe bar, PN motor mount, ball diff, FRp side plates , no side Springs and pitching inner tube top shock

It sounds as if the car is just way out of balance set up wise. I would never make a set up that makes the car "tire dependent" for traction. If the chassis isn't right then the car will never be balanced. As you run the tires build heat and the traction characteristics change. Without the proper "mechanical grip" built in you will loose the "handle".

I would want -2* knuckles with a toe bar that measured "net 0" toe in. Never mind the numbers stamped on the bar. I have never found two alike from any manufacturer. If it takes a +2 to net out to 0 then put it in. Since the chassis fortunately has no real provision for Caster you don't have to be concerned with toe out to get the car to turn. I would use Kyosho green springs an K-30 front tires and K-20 rears. Possibly K40 fronts with K red springs. As mentioned by "Cowboy" you will never find more consistent tires. Not sure about the FRP side plates. I would put the stock ones back on to get a reference point. I agree with no side springs. Do try to run the screws a little loose as well to test. Take the damper plate off until you can get the basics to some sort of norm. Loosen the dif to the point that it slips enough to keep you from getting much power down and then start snugging it up a little at a time until it starts to get tail happy and then back off a notch. Has the dif been properly "blueprinted" and lubed? Everything matters.

Do you know how to check the rear for tweak? If so do it and shim the pod accordingly. Make sure the edges of the battery door don't interfere with the side plate action. To be safe trim a little off the lateral sides of the door.

The F-1 chassis seems to work best right out of the box. The more you modify it the more tempermental it gets. The most aggravating thing for me was always the sensation that it was steering from the rear like a forklift. It feels like it wants a late apex on a backed up corner regardless of the flow of the track.

Good luck.

Blf
2016.07.15, 02:56 AM
Great info - I actually have 1.5 degree knuckles from PN as well but with a 0 toe bar it looks like the toe is out a bit

I do not have a disc damper on there just the in texture pitching shock with green front spring.

I guess I will try kyo rears to start but don't know how to check for tweak any info on how to check and shim would be great . I really want to make this work with the pn pod and 70t I have in there so thanks for all the ideas

I don't get how it's loosing mechanical grip pike that - and then will reverse to oversteering the other direction when just flipping the rears left to right ?

Thanks for the continued help on this

Blf
2016.07.15, 08:42 AM
Update ----- Just took the rear top pitching inner tube shock off completely, no springs in rear and just the FRP plates and its still doing it.

Can you use the Kyosho DDS with the PN motor mount?

I did loosen the screws from the plates to the mount as well, changed a bit for the better but still would just suddenlt break free ---- just seems like I can drive SO much more aggressive/still clean, with my MR03's and to keep from spinning I have to do so much throttle "dancing" is nuts

Blf
2016.07.15, 09:55 AM
another observation --- just switched the rears to the stock ones that came with the chassis (20 or 30 degree?) Anyway --still have all the rear/top stuff off, just the FRP side plates and it definitely was able to stick better when staying on power through some of the tight turns

I did order a couple of sets of 20's and 10 Markas from Shawn just to try as well.

I'm thinking just use the Ky0 DDS plate system just alone with the PN mount.

Thanks again for the help guys