PDA

View Full Version : Opinions please from racing community


cowboysir
2016.10.24, 11:06 PM
Quick question for all:

Are Gyros a form of cheating? If there's only one person out of the group using a gyro wouldn't that mean it is considered an unfair advantage?

I'm curious if the gyro does give that much of advantage.

byebye
2016.10.25, 06:35 AM
We have an open class here in the DC group and anything goes. If you have at least one open class, open rules group you can really tell whether or not it's an advantage.

It does help the car run smoother but I wouldn't call it an advantage.

mleemor60
2016.10.25, 07:08 AM
Nor would I. My limited experience with the gyro's have netted negative handling results. Since most track set up's have groups of twisty bits connected by a series of moderately short straights the gyro tends to fight the needed quick left then right then left again corner arrangements that we all race on. On a three wide 50cm track with lots of gentle high speed sweepers there could be an advantage but in the world most of us run in I would think not. The money would be better spent on something like chrome applique sheets for your transmitter or a nice "keep out" sign for your hobby room.

xmodcanuck
2016.10.25, 07:37 AM
I'd say based on your specific question that yes it's a bit cheater-ish. If only one person has an electronic driving aid it's definitely an unfair advantage.
Maybe create a special class for the cheater-gyro cars and have them all race together.

mleemor60
2016.10.25, 11:10 AM
Looking at it in a simply black or white format I would agree that it is a bit subversive especially IF there are written rules that clearly state the legality of an add on part like "fets" used to be. If there is nothing stated in the "rules" addressing that the addition of said accessory is illegal then you just put it up for discussion.

cowboysir
2016.10.25, 02:32 PM
Our group has been a kind of "laissez-faire/run what you brung" club where the only thing banned to this point is silicone and foam tires, mainly because our smaller track (90cm max width) limits the benefits of different power levels.

With one person driving the twisty bits with higher power and a gyro....unfair advantage?

I'd certainly like some opinions because I would share this debate with our club so we can decide either to let it go or browbeat unmercifully so as to end its use

mleemor60
2016.10.25, 04:27 PM
Based on that I would ban the use for the one that has it so it stops the escalation of everybody having to have it. Worse yet would be the next level it could lead to and on and on. Better to nip it early. Probably the worst part of it is the one that has it doesn't need it to be competitive.

xmodcanuck
2016.10.25, 05:56 PM
Probably the worst part of it is the one that has it doesn't need it to be competitive.

You hit the nail squarely on the head with that statement.

RFick73
2016.10.25, 09:18 PM
I have a Gyro in my MOD car. I use it more than not, but I do disconnect it from time to time here & there.
But again, it's in my MOD car not my stock.

It fits the category for MOD I believe.
So, if ya wanna keep using it, be sure to label it as MOD & keep it in that category.

Just my 2 cents.

cowboysir
2016.10.25, 09:28 PM
I have a Gyro in my MOD car. I use it more than not, but I do disconnect it from time to time here & there.
But again, it's in my MOD car not my stock.

It fits the category for MOD I believe.
So, if ya wanna keep using it, be sure to label it as MOD & keep it in that category.

Just my 2 cents.

I did not realize you were cheating as well:p

Since it seems increasingly difficult to have races within a category I guess I'll just have to sit out for your "mod" races.

TheSteve
2016.10.25, 10:54 PM
I did not realize you were cheating as well:p

Since it seems increasingly difficult to have races within a category I guess I'll just have to sit out for your "mod" races.

We're going to have to watch these guys - they might be running a 5th cell too.

TeeSquared
2016.10.26, 01:19 AM
:rolleyes:

Sheesh.

Gladi8or
2016.10.26, 02:17 AM
Hey guys.... is this really needed? I'm gonna be honest in saying that I'm a bit disappointed reading this topic. C'mon dudes, you all have a fleet worth thousands of dollars, and you're afraid a kid that runs plastics and stock motors will have advantage over you because of a gyro? C'monnnn! You can do better than this. Actually I'm so curious that I'm gonna try it myself if someone doesnt mind that I borrow one from you... dead sure it's bollocks but it's totally legit, kyosho part, available for everybody.
To be fair... we're not even racing.... so why to bother? You can all use gyros and Steve will still do the fastest lap of the day.... YEYYY!
50 cents given...now let's go to the track and put some more laps down and JUST try to be better.

cowboysir
2016.10.26, 09:53 AM
Hey guys.... is this really needed? I'm gonna be honest in saying that I'm a bit disappointed reading this topic. C'mon dudes, you all have a fleet worth thousands of dollars, and you're afraid a kid that runs plastics and stock motors will have advantage over you because of a gyro? C'monnnn! You can do better than this. Actually I'm so curious that I'm gonna try it myself if someone doesnt mind that I borrow one from you... dead sure it's bollocks but it's totally legit, kyosho part, available for everybody.
To be fair... we're not even racing.... so why to bother? You can all use gyros and Steve will still do the fastest lap of the day.... YEYYY!
50 cents given...now let's go to the track and put some more laps down and JUST try to be better.

Carlos,

This thread is an attempt to find out if I should continue berating gyro users or just let it be.

I'm honestly super tired of trash talking. I'd love to get everyone to build cars to a spec so we can really compete at a similar level but since we do not I wanted to find outside opinions about traction control.

I did not intend this to turn into a sort "shaming" but if users are taking it that way it kind of makes you wonder why gyro users feel that way if users think they are ok to use.

Outside opinion has pretty much said that they are a bit hokey and for certain tracks completely useless. To that end I've decided :

1. I will no longer berate users of gyros.
2. I will sit out mod class races until I have a usable mod class car. Getting bumped out of the way driving a lower powered car gets on my nerves....:)

byebye
2016.10.27, 06:29 AM
Let keep the conversation civil but allow everyone a chance to voice their opinion.

Canvassing the racing community especially this forum is a great way to get a lot of different opinions to help make a decision for YOUR club. What works for us may not always work for you.

In regards to using a gyro versus not or "adding electronic aids", well what's the difference between that and say having an upgraded radio? I personally see no difference. By adding a programmable radio you can take out or add in driving features you just can't get with a kt-18. What about programming your ESC? Again you can add or remove torque curves, change steering speed and such which can greatly increase your consistency and we all know consistency wins races.

What works for DC? We have multiple classes so EVERYONE gets to race and other than mods everyone starts with the same chassis. Then what makes the difference is how you maintain or tweak your car. So we cater from novice to pro essentially so that no one feels obligated to buy something they don't need and are not intimidated because they just aren't competitive when they compare their stock car to your mod car.

What else works? We all agree to the rules before we accept a change.

Kris

Gladi8or
2016.10.31, 06:13 AM
Hi guys, I agree with everything you say apart from the shaming bits, that's just it. We have bigger fish to fry than seating out because one guy is using a part... this should be extra wood for your fire to try to beat him without the gyro. I can give you an example, last meeting I tried for the first time in my life brushless cars... OMG! Pretty darn good! Are they cheating? No... do they have better cars... darn right, but I'm getting closer... and that's a nice objective for me, I take it as a challenge... Eventually I'll have to get one if I feel that I can't do much more, but for now, I'll squeeze every drop of juice from that orange.
I'm totally on your side regarding the classes, we should clearly spec the categories and make it more clear, but there's not much you can do when the big deal is pulling the fastest lap of the day, it's ALL-IN right? Being consistent is no longer needed, you just need to be fast. For instance, last meet, I did my best lap with a setup that was worse than the following ones, but I could actually nail that lap, compromising consistency for the sake of a good lap. With the setup that finally gave me confidence with my car, I couldnt be as fast. But we all know this right, qualification is one thing, race pace is the other, that's while Valentino Rossi keeps kicking a$$ on Sundays at 37 years of age... :)

arch2b
2016.10.31, 07:48 AM
i never understood the obsession with 'fastest lap' and still do not.:confused: at the end of the day, unless you can string them together with 'consistency' it really doesn't amount to much, if anything. it's simply one marker of many that one can use to gauge skill, performance but it's far from being the most important. i'll hop off my soap box now...

i went through great stress and countless years of experience and effort to reach a common core set of classes for our club that work well. you won't get 100% from everyone but what you have to realize and knowledge is, you likely never will. work to be inclusive vs. exclusive, offer something for most if not all :p and most importantly, don't be afraid to get creative once in awhile, it's supposed to be fun after all :D

i applaud and respect seeking consensus, not everyone interprets it's the same way though :o at some point however, you just have to lay down the law and make judgement calls. not all are going to like it but if your fair and reasonable about it, it should be respected.

Racer-HH
2016.11.01, 04:43 AM
We had this discussion in our club with the introduction of gyros way back. At first erverybody was arguing about unfair advantages. But after the first few meetings everybody realized two important things: a) the fast guys will be the fast guys - with or without electronic aids. And b) - way more important - all lap times with gyro were slower than the ones without, as the assist system takes away power and steering. Therefore we did not ban it but emphasized on proper setup for everybody to improve lap times.

With this experience my advise is to keep calm and focus on enjoying your hobby time.

EMU
2016.11.04, 09:30 PM
With my limited gyro experience, I hated driving with it on.

The gyro limited rotation, and would counter steer into the outside wall on corner exit. With my mod car I was more than a second faster without the gyro than with it.

I tried to setup the car for the gyro, and the gap decreased,just a little, but it was still slower than my pro stock car on a relatively open circuit.

The gyro essentially came and went in our racing scene. Only when it first was released would people use it... A month later, there were no cars with gyros.

Honestly, anything more than a 48t atomic motor, or 43t Pn motor is too much motor for a mini rcp track. I've driven plenty of mini-tile, and best results were 50t/48t max. More motor = more error and broken parts. The gyro won't help running a hot motor with less errors, if anything it makes the car less predictable since you can't get the feel for the setup with the device making corrections.

personally, I feel that it should not be illegal, and that the users will eventually see that it is slowing them down and will pull it from the car on their own. By all means, restrict it for stock, but leave it in a mod/open class.

if people are bumping you out of the way in mod, they will do the same with or without the gyro :eek:

herman
2016.11.06, 04:25 AM
interesting read and great input guys...