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View Full Version : GP Limited Chassis - First Impression


Blf
2016.12.15, 08:19 AM
http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/BLF38/GP%20Limited%201_zpst9oqgyne.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/BLF38/media/GP%20Limited%201_zpst9oqgyne.jpg.html)

Got my hands on one from UK and it's pretty nice right out of the box. I only changed tires (Marka), T plate to Kyosho CF medium and the diffshaft to the Ti one while replacing balls with ceramic Acer 3/32's and polishing plates

The interesting thing is that its an LM width motor mount but comes in 98mm config, so I just had to ratchet down the offset by 2mm on each side in rear to fit my 12C McLaren body.

Power is insane - I pulled down throttle to 60 and its perfect. I pulled best lap with it on our home track already so very promising. I'm tempted to aluminize the front knuckles, top camber arms etc, but I'm liking the weight (with batteries) of 178 grams

Only thing that irks me on the motor mount is the one side mesh adjustment screw is essentially behind the spur so you have to set mesh with the far side screw and the one on the spur side that you can get to with the diff on the car, THEN take off the diff completely and tighten that unreachable screw.

Overall, awesome first impression and nice to have it set up pretty much just right, out of the box.

Blf
2016.12.15, 11:57 AM
Bottom

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/BLF38/GP%20Bottom_zpstqj0dnio.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/BLF38/media/GP%20Bottom_zpstqj0dnio.jpg.html)

TeeSquared
2016.12.15, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the sneak peak BLF! Can't wait to get my hands on one of these. It's one of the nicer chassis that Kyosho has released in a long time but I'm once again let down by them cheaping out on option parts for an SP chassis. A plastic T plate with an aluminum motor pod? Really? Not even some nice kingpins and some front springs? Just do not understand some of the decisions Kyosho makes these days with Mini-Z but then again, we are not necessarily the intended market and lots of North America Mini-Z sensibilities are very different from those overseas.

I do like everything else I see though! And 178 grams is very reasonable for the power level. I am a BIG fan of mostly plastic cars with titanium hardware wherever possible - light cars are fast cars! At 60% throttle I imagine run time will be quite good!

Thanks again for posting :)

EMU
2016.12.15, 05:12 PM
That's a pretty big negative with the mesh adjustment. The car looks good though... 12000kv is a little much though, even at 4.8v.

I'm not sure if I understand the advantages of using the LM sized differential... Besides less offset on the rear wheels.

I personally like around 180-185g for my cars. Lighter and they just don't generate as much traction, heavier and they feel sluggish. For 70t, where traction is less of a concern, I will go 10g lighter.

TeeSquared
2016.12.15, 05:47 PM
I agree that setting the gear mesh also sounds like a PITA. Might be worthwhile to make some marks on the motor bracket and the mount itself once a good mesh is set.

I think they used the LM diff so they could use the R246 LM motor pod, which puts the motor lower than the standard 98 MM pod. Wider, lower...Kyosho certainly has the right idea! They just shy away lately from the extra step or two to make their cars truly great.

185 grams seems so heavy to me, but then again I am a huge plastic fan :) My 70T car, with cells and body is only 160-165 grams ready to run. I run much softer springs than most people do though, and I run a little droop too so traction is never a problem. I'm planning on trying a similar setup on my GP limited and I'll report back how it works out when I can find one for reasonable money. The only guy on eBay with them right now wants over $300 USD and I'm getting hosed with the exchange rate right now so...hard to justify a $400 CND Mini Z :rolleyes:

EMU
2016.12.15, 06:14 PM
I would typically add weight for my mod cars... Bottom of the chassis is a great location. It's also a weight that I got used to when 180g was the minimum weight before mr03 was released. My cars would typically come in around 175g, then I would add weight up to around 183g or so. This way if I lost some material in the race (tire wear, etc), I wouldn't get disqualified.

The weight calms the cat down a little, and makes it more consistent. I have raced with veryi competitive drivers that felt anything under 200g was too light. Everyone has a different approach, and depending on layout and conditions, different weights can work well. Another thing to note, a 160g car bumping a 190g car on track, the heavier car wins almost every time.

The old pn 98 lcg mount, hold motor flat, and uses a standard diff... Don't know if there are issues with brushless motors, which could be the real issue there.

The damper arm on the mount looks like it's a step back in design... I would assume that due to its thickness, there shouldn't be much flex, but it lacks adjustability, and looks like it only supports a disc damper.

I prefer mounts where the damper arm attaches to both sides of the mount to reduce flex entirely.

cowboysir
2016.12.15, 06:31 PM
I would typically add weight for my mod cars... Bottom of the chassis is a great location. It's also a weight that I got used to when 180g was the minimum weight before mr03 was released. My cars would typically come in around 175g, then I would add weight up to around 183g or so. This way if I lost some material in the race (tire wear, etc), I wouldn't get disqualified.

The weight calms the cat down a little, and makes it more consistent. I have raced with veryi competitive drivers that felt anything under 200g was too light. Everyone has a different approach, and depending on layout and conditions, different weights can work well. Another thing to note, a 160g car bumping a 190g car on track, the heavier car wins almost every time.

The old pn 98 lcg mount, hold motor flat, and uses a standard diff... Don't know if there are issues with brushless motors, which could be the real issue there.

The damper arm on the mount looks like it's a step back in design... I would assume that due to its thickness, there shouldn't be much flex, but it lacks adjustability, and looks like it only supports a disc damper.

I prefer mounts where the damper arm attaches to both sides of the mount to reduce flex entirely.

The PN mount requires a threaded hole in the motor case....therefore kyosho bl are limited to home modding to work.

I like your thoughts on weights, EMU....I think i'll be trying your suggestions soonish

TeeSquared
2016.12.15, 07:00 PM
Another thing to note, a 160g car bumping a 190g car on track, the heavier car wins almost every time.


Very good point and very true. I've found getting hit by heavier cars also results in more damage to my cars as they are mostly plastic. Then again, parts are cheaper to replace and it's economical to keep spares around :) That doesn't help you if you get taken out during a race though :o Demands some careful driving!

Maybe this car would actually be a real peach at 200 grams and settle down all that horsepower and actually make it derivable. I ordered a Mazda 787 body in anticipation which I'm assuming is a fair amount heavier than the 12C that I usually run. Maybe this will rival my porky F1 car (which actually handles incredibly well at 200+ grams)

Blf
2016.12.15, 07:04 PM
Great info guys - btw, anyone know if the board is any different than the VE pro? Can the VE Pro handle an 11500kv from PN for instance?

EMU
2016.12.15, 07:47 PM
The PN mount requires a threaded hole in the motor case....therefore kyosho bl are limited to home modding to work.

Forgot about motor mounting holes... Good point there. Also, couldn't see them in the picture. Thought that Orion motors may have added the holes compared to stock Kyosho.

Much like this...
https://teamorion.com/images/detailed/226/ORI20919_1.jpg?t=1480685360

Can't seem to find a pic of this motor... But also, most brushless motors are round, so really no flat mount advantage with them compared to the brushed motors.

arch2b
2016.12.16, 08:44 AM
that would be a welcomed improvement to Kyosho's BL line (drilled/tapped can)! the only reason they use the shell is to ensure compatibility with stock motor pods. otherwise, if drilled/tapped, you can ditch the fearing possibly. Kyosho at one time sold the fearing separately. Still not sure where 12kV is really practical? you would need an enormous and wide track to accommodate those speeds.

it's a nice looking bit of kit, not as fully optioned as i would have liked for the price point but still nice racing out of the box.

cowboysir
2016.12.16, 11:37 AM
Maybe this car would actually be a real peach at 200 grams and settle down all that horsepower and actually make it derivable. I ordered a Mazda 787 body in anticipation which I'm assuming is a fair amount heavier than the 12C that I usually run. )

it's about 5 grams heavier in base whitebody unassembled form (just checked) but 2 things to consider:

1. The weight of the shell for the 787b is centrally balanced compared to bit more rearward bias on the 12c....something to consider when adjusting ballast positions on your chassis

2. The 787 is 102mm so you may have to think about different damper plate configurations


12k KV is a bit much and it isn't really speced enough to be a valued addition to a fleet

TeeSquared
2016.12.17, 02:07 AM
2. The 787 is 102mm so you may have to think about different damper plate configurations


So I did some digging around trying to figure this out because I was sure this damper system was for both 98 and 102 mm and I was sure I'd seen it advertised as the alloy LM pod so it had to fit that wheelbase.

Turns out, Kyosho has released the damper and motor pod twice:

R246-1202 (http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/support/instructionmanual/r246/pdf/R246-1202_LM_Aluminum_Motor_Moun.pdf) - LM pod with two "arms" for fitting either the R246 damper or stock plastic damper

R246 - 1222 (http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/support/instructionmanual/r246/pdf/R246-1222_Roll_Damper_Oil_Shock_Set.pdf) - Disk damper that fits both 98 and 102 mm wheelbases

R246 - 1352 (http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/support/instructionmanual/r246/pdf/R246-1352_MML_Roll_Damper_Oil_Shock_Set.pdf) - Disk damper that fits the 98 mm wheelbase

R246 - 1351 (http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/support/instructionmanual/r246/pdf/R246-1351_MML_Aluminum_Motor_Mount.pdf) - LM pod with one arm to fit only the R246 disk damper. Also includes a motor heat sink.

So....for anyone wanting to run this car at the 102 mm wheelbase, I think you only need to buy R246-1222 to get the dual wheelbase damper mount. Sucks you have to buy the whole thing for a single part but, at least using the SPs damper plate you have another complete kit for another 98 mm car.

Blf
2016.12.17, 02:57 AM
Haha - total ESP on that one. I was just about to post this as it's just the 98mm plate - no idea why the 1222 plate with both holes is not included / used. I have a 1222 set but will now just have the other parts sitting around.

The mesh adjust isn't awful btw - just used to the top adjustable pn mounts.

EMU
2016.12.17, 09:06 AM
Both plates are different between the dampers. The 1352 damper plate will only do 98mm with Both chassis plates. The 1222 damper plate will only do 102mm on the 1352 chassis plate.

1352
http://store.pro-s-futaba.co.jp/images/R246-1352_pc1_m.jpg

1222
http://store.pro-s-futaba.co.jp/images/R246-1222_pc1_m.jpg

It looks like the location of the rear screws for the 1222 chassis plate is the same as the 1352, just adding an extra set of screw holes 4mm forward.

The damper plate is screw position is 4mm further from damper post hole on the 1222 than the 1352.

Realistically, you could use the 1352 top player with the 1222 damper plate for 102mm, and the 1352 damper plate for 98mm.

I don't see why they don't just sell one package for a little more money with both damper plates. It makes much more sense to me than having a less than optimal arrangement for 98mm with the 1222 (higher damper plate, less body clearance options). You basically need to buy the full damper to run a different wheelbase.

With motormount, the only difference that I can see is that the 1202 has both damper arms. While the 1351 doesn't.

There could be different inside diameters for the motor holder, which can't be seen by eye.. There are option adapters for different sizes bearing motor cases to prevent slop in mesh. I assume compatibility with both mounts even though the description only states that 1202 is compatible, but that could be due to a later release of the 1351 mount.

R246-1208
http://store.pro-s-futaba.co.jp/images/R246-1208_pc1_m.jpg

SuperFly
2017.10.31, 08:49 PM
Just picked one of these up. I'm curious about the bundle of zip-tied motor wires. As it comes out of the chassis, it is zip-tied to the corner of the motor pod, then there is this little "wad" of wires that includes the connectors, and then it goes into the motor.

Does someone have an elegant solution for securing that little wad of motor wires? It bothers me that it just flops around in there and can easily get caught in the damper, rub on tires, interfere with body fit, etc. I'm sure I can figure something out, just wondering if anyone has had to address this issue.

arch2b
2017.11.01, 07:45 AM
more often than not, they shorten the wires. i can't fathom why they made them so long.