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RCPMini-z
2017.02.17, 11:36 AM
I am working with Kyosho on organizing this years event here in the US. If you are a hobby store that may want to host a regional event, send me a pm or email and I can give you more details. Discussions are in progress to possibly bring top finishers from the USA Cup to Japan to compete against drivers in the Japan Mini-z Cup.

mleemor60
2017.02.17, 01:28 PM
Do you know what the minimum space requirement will be to host an event or will the track layout be up to the host shop?

arch2b
2017.02.17, 01:41 PM
Awesome to hear and have already contacted Hobby Works to ask they reach out to you!

arch2b
2017.02.17, 01:51 PM
Do you know what the minimum space requirement will be to host an event or will the track layout be up to the host shop?

In 2004 (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11993&page=6), the track sizes were about HFAY size. At the time, not all LHS had RCP so it was also on whatever track the LHS had. There was a track in Charlottesville VA LHS had a painted wood track with wood rails :rolleyes:

RCPMini-z
2017.02.17, 02:17 PM
Do you know what the minimum space requirement will be to host an event or will the track layout be up to the host shop?

Track size and classes have not been finalized. Track surface will be RCP, but I am working with Kittrich to get tracks sent to hobby stores that don't already have a track in place, so more shops can participate.

We may include Mini-z Buggy and in this case will provide jumps, bumps and obstacles for the races.

Still working on details including timing system to be used, but most likely it will be similar to the Robotronics. Philip is testing another system at his facility and we may use that system, which is also similar to Robotronics. I was at PN Racing yesterday and got to watch Grant's practice session with the timing system and his car he will be using in Brazil. I bought a transmitter from Grant some time ago, thinking it would make me drive as fast as him. Didn't work out so well. :)

I am in process of testing out some new surface textures from the factory that manufactures RCP Tracks. We may use the new surface and tracks for the future Cup events. The new tracks will incorporate grey tiles, so black vehicles will be easier to locate and will have a skin on one side.

RCPMini-z
2017.02.17, 10:39 PM
I am testing out some new surfaces for future RCP Tracks. May use the new surface and tracks for the Mini-z Cup events. Hopes are that the surface will offer grip somewhere between the rough side and the smooth side. The pattern on the attached sample simulates asphalt and it has a random texture pattern. The texture will be a skin on the tiles, so clean up will be much easier and tire wear will be greatly reduced.

Thinking of grey tiles, so you can see the black cars, blue turn rails and black side straight rails. Your suggestions on colors, would be appreciated. We can also go dark grey for a better look and so dirt doesn't show up as much, but will be lighter color than black for the tiles. Also thought of grey tiles with black rails all around. Even the turn rails. Might look more professional if there weren't bright colored rails. Black rails wouldn't show the dirt as much as blue, red or yellow turn rails.

arch2b
2017.02.18, 01:00 PM
if I can make a suggestion on the timing system, unless it will be provided for the event, let the location use the timing system of their choice and maybe select a program like ZRound that is very cross platform compatible so that a specific race format can be programmed and followed. While everyone appreciates PN has taken the lead on the North American market racing, not everyone is switching systems when they do to the next best thing. For many places, a timing system is a significant investment and cannot migrate to whatever PN chooses every other or every couple seasons. Your looking at anywhere between 2-400 for the system and a club could have 3-600 invested in transponders.

In my experience, LHS will not devote funds to invest in additional equipment if they are not certain of drawing additional sales as a result. The great recession took it's toll on LHS markets and experimenting with retail floor space just isn't as likely today as it was pre-2008 crash.

Is participation limited to hobby stores or can appropriately sized clubs also host?

Traveler
2017.02.20, 09:32 AM
I am testing out some new surfaces for future RCP Tracks. May use the new surface and tracks for the Mini-z Cup events. Hopes are that the surface will offer grip somewhere between the rough side and the smooth side. The pattern on the attached sample simulates asphalt and it has a random texture pattern. The texture will be a skin on the tiles, so clean up will be much easier and tire wear will be greatly reduced.

Thinking of grey tiles, so you can see the black cars, blue turn rails and black side straight rails. Your suggestions on colors, would be appreciated. We can also go dark grey for a better look and so dirt doesn't show up as much, but will be lighter color than black for the tiles. Also thought of grey tiles with black rails all around. Even the turn rails. Might look more professional if there weren't bright colored rails. Black rails wouldn't show the dirt as much as blue, red or yellow turn rails.

This is very exciting, and I think this topic should have its own thread!

I'm encouraged by this because new investment/innovation by industry leaders like RCP Tracks is another sign that Mini-Z racing may be coming back to the U.S., but then again, it could be wishful thinking on my part.

I really appreciate you seeking input from 'customers' on your plans, unfortunately there aren't many racers that frequent these forums nowadays :(. As far as colors, definitely one that makes is easier to see all cars is a big plus in my book. I have a devil of a time seeing, dark blue or red cars. And black cars are invisible to me. I think the rails should stand out from the tiles to make it easier to see the boundaries when cutting a corner closely. Grey tiles with black rails may look cool, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to navigate. In terms of dirt, I like seeing the dirt on the track, because it's a good indicator of when the track needs cleaning, so I wouldn't try to pick a color to conceal it. I wonder what light grey tiles with red and white rails would look like. As far as texture is concerned, I'm not sure what to think. Consistency between tracks would be nice, as would easy cleanup and reduced tire wear, but what about all the RCP that is out there? Would it become obsolete? My concern is that the texture idea ends up being like New Coke.

if I can make a suggestion on the timing system, unless it will be provided for the event, let the location use the timing system of their choice

+1 on this.

Traveler
2017.02.20, 09:35 AM
Something like this from Bahrain International Circuit?

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35056&stc=1&d=1487601247

RCPMini-z
2017.02.20, 03:31 PM
This is very exciting, and I think this topic should have its own thread!

I'm encouraged by this because new investment/innovation by industry leaders like RCP Tracks is another sign that Mini-Z racing may be coming back to the U.S., but then again, it could be wishful thinking on my part.

I really appreciate you seeking input from 'customers' on your plans, unfortunately there aren't many racers that frequent these forums nowadays :(. As far as colors, definitely one that makes is easier to see all cars is a big plus in my book. I have a devil of a time seeing, dark blue or red cars. And black cars are invisible to me. I think the rails should stand out from the tiles to make it easier to see the boundaries when cutting a corner closely. Grey tiles with black rails may look cool, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to navigate. In terms of dirt, I like seeing the dirt on the track, because it's a good indicator of when the track needs cleaning, so I wouldn't try to pick a color to conceal it. I wonder what light grey tiles with red and white rails would look like. As far as texture is concerned, I'm not sure what to think. Consistency between tracks would be nice, as would easy cleanup and reduced tire wear, but what about all the RCP that is out there? Would it become obsolete? My concern is that the texture idea ends up being like New Coke.



+1 on this.

Any new textures would be in addition to current RCP Track tiles. The original track texture will always be available as long as the tracks are sold, so current customers will be able to expand.

I can create some 3D images with different color rails and tiles for you to view. Regarding dirt, I was referring to the rails as the inside turn rails receive the most dust, dirt and marks. Having a dark rail will help hide some of the marks. I like the idea of either grey or dark grey for the tiles. I too have some black bodies using black rims and they are hard to see on the track. I wonder what green rails would look like on grey tiles. Could simulate grass! Maybe print red and white checkered on the inside of the tile for short and long inside turn rails. Would look similar to picture above.

RCPMini-z
2017.02.20, 03:33 PM
if I can make a suggestion on the timing system, unless it will be provided for the event, let the location use the timing system of their choice and maybe select a program like ZRound that is very cross platform compatible so that a specific race format can be programmed and followed. While everyone appreciates PN has taken the lead on the North American market racing, not everyone is switching systems when they do to the next best thing. For many places, a timing system is a significant investment and cannot migrate to whatever PN chooses every other or every couple seasons. Your looking at anywhere between 2-400 for the system and a club could have 3-600 invested in transponders.

In my experience, LHS will not devote funds to invest in additional equipment if they are not certain of drawing additional sales as a result. The great recession took it's toll on LHS markets and experimenting with retail floor space just isn't as likely today as it was pre-2008 crash.

Is participation limited to hobby stores or can appropriately sized clubs also host?

Yes, ZRound software will be used.

Traveler
2017.02.20, 03:38 PM
Any new textures would be in addition to current RCP Track tiles. The original track texture will always be available as long as the tracks are sold, so current customers will be able to expand.

Whew! Glad to hear!

I can create some 3D images with different color rails and tiles for you to view. Regarding dirt, I was referring to the rails as the inside turn rails receive the most dust, dirt and marks. Having a dark rail will help hide some of the marks. I like the idea of either grey or dark grey for the tiles. I too have some black bodies using black rims and they are hard to see on the track. I wonder what green rails would look like on grey tiles. Could simulate grass! Maybe print red and white checkered on the inside of the tile for short and long inside turn rails. Would look similar to picture above.

I'd like to see what this would look like! :cool:

TeeSquared
2017.02.20, 04:26 PM
I wonder what green rails would look like on grey tiles. Could simulate grass! Maybe print red and white checkered on the inside of the tile for short and long inside turn rails. Would look similar to picture above.

I've often thought about painting this on my RCP track for the added realism. I love the sounds of this!!! :D Grey/green sounds like a good color combo too.

EMU
2017.02.21, 04:14 AM
I personally like a bright colored inside turn rail. The red works well, as does yellow. It allows you to spot the apex easily without looking for it directly. I fear that a black inside turn rail may hide itself in the peripheral vision.

Any chance on also giving the side rails a smoother textured surface, so the cars are less prone to stopping as they graze the rail, and wont chunk apart as much after many cars hitting the rail. We resorted to putting duct tape on some of the rails for the cars to glance off rather than stop and get slammed by the cars behind.

Traveler
2017.02.21, 08:43 AM
I personally like a bright colored inside turn rail. The red works well, as does yellow. It allows you to spot the apex easily without looking for it directly. I fear that a black inside turn rail may hide itself in the peripheral vision.

Ditto!

Any chance on also giving the side rails a smoother textured surface, so the cars are less prone to stopping as they graze the rail, and wont chunk apart as much after many cars hitting the rail. We resorted to putting duct tape on some of the rails for the cars to glance off rather than stop and get slammed by the cars behind.

This would be a huge improvement! What if the top of the rails were green to simulate grass, but the sides were a harder/smoother surface that is red/white squares?

RCPMini-z
2017.02.21, 10:03 AM
I personally like a bright colored inside turn rail. The red works well, as does yellow. It allows you to spot the apex easily without looking for it directly. I fear that a black inside turn rail may hide itself in the peripheral vision.

Any chance on also giving the side rails a smoother textured surface, so the cars are less prone to stopping as they graze the rail, and wont chunk apart as much after many cars hitting the rail. We resorted to putting duct tape on some of the rails for the cars to glance off rather than stop and get slammed by the cars behind.

At one time there where RCP rail liners for this purpose. Could be used for the short or large radius turns. A portion of the rail liner extended into the straight rail before the turn. You could place banners behind the liners and they would be protected by the plastic. The liners could be painted red and white checkered board on the turn section. See attached picture. I can request they be brought back "in stock" in next container load to the USA.

There are some members that created banners for the rail liners. See link below for some banners you can download made by members here.

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19303

direct link to site
http://www.mini-az.com/downloadslogos.html

Traveler
2017.02.21, 10:12 AM
No offense, but we tried these at my LHS years ago and they were not a hit. As I recall, the biggest issue was marshals stepping on rails to avoid stepping on the track during a race, forgetting the liners were there, and cracking them. Sounded like they'd stepped on a car. :eek:

RCPMini-z
2017.02.21, 11:01 AM
No offense, but we tried these at my LHS years ago and they were not a hit. As I recall, the biggest issue was marshals stepping on rails to avoid stepping on the track during a race, forgetting the liners were there, and cracking them. Sounded like they'd stepped on a car. :eek:

Well, tell them not to step on them. :) Are you sure they were the same liners? If I can recall the RCP liners would not break if stepped on. They were soft plastic that would bend, not break. I will get some samples and test.

Traveler
2017.02.21, 11:12 AM
Well, tell them not to step on them. :) Are you sure they were the same liners? If I can recall the RCP liners would not break if stepped on. They were soft plastic that would bend, not break. I will get some samples and test.

Can't say for sure if they were RCP brand. mleemor60 purchased and installed them. He may be able to chime in here.

arch2b
2017.02.21, 12:46 PM
Hate to pile on but that is a user issue :p If you had marshal's stepping on cars, you'd make sure it stopped. No different than rail liners really, or shouldn't be. It all cost some one money and if I were paying for them and people kept stepping on them and breaking them I'd quickly have a drivers meeting to correct the issue, possibly even resulting in infractions paying for damages which would certainly bring a quick end to the problem. Mistakes happen but simply no excuse for continued damaging of the track by anyone responsible enough to race around the track.

I had some of the rail liners at one point but never used them as I don't recall them being permitted in HFAY? If they are, I may have to dig around to find them if possible.

mleemor60
2017.02.21, 12:56 PM
The original set of RCP rail liners worked pretty well and could stand being stepped on. The biggest issue with them came when somebody bounced off and back into traffic it created a 7-10 split with the rest of the field. Some of our faster drivers didn't like them and they mysteriously disappeared. The ones I purchased to protect the rapidly deteriorating corner pieces were something that came with the Losi RCP tracks and they weren't worth the shipping. The paper they were wrapped in had more tensile strength. We wound up going three or four layers deep with wide packing tape just to contain the shrapnel. They were nicely colored though in alternating red and white. When we were using the bridge I fabricated some more out of vinyl fence rails. It was the strongest but we were still bothered by the moving wreck when somebody bounced off. They were good for the rookies but the big guns hated them.

Traveler
2017.02.21, 01:45 PM
Thanks for the reminder Mike. I knew there were some other issues...

From my standpoint, I'd like to see the inside of the rails be more durable than regular RCP rails, and like Emu, with a smoother surface that cars wouldn't stick to, but maybe not as slick to send cars careening across multiple lanes of traffic, like the liners did. I know this is asking a lot, but as I understand it, you are asking for feedback and a wish list, so this would be mine:

Light gray tiles
Durable rails with green tops and high visibility less sticky sides
High visibility inside turn rails

Thanks again for seeking ideas...

RCPMini-z
2017.02.21, 02:05 PM
The original set of RCP rail liners worked pretty well and could stand being stepped on. The biggest issue with them came when somebody bounced off and back into traffic it created a 7-10 split with the rest of the field. Some of our faster drivers didn't like them and they mysteriously disappeared. The ones I purchased to protect the rapidly deteriorating corner pieces were something that came with the Losi RCP tracks and they weren't worth the shipping. The paper they were wrapped in had more tensile strength. We wound up going three or four layers deep with wide packing tape just to contain the shrapnel. They were nicely colored though in alternating red and white. When we were using the bridge I fabricated some more out of vinyl fence rails. It was the strongest but we were still bothered by the moving wreck when somebody bounced off. They were good for the rookies but the big guns hated them.

I would think the bounce back affect would be worse with foam rails as opposed to the rail liners. The bounce back on foam rails sends the car back into the car/cars behind at an abrupt stop. I would think glancing off the rail liners, while still going forward, would create less pile up activity. Cars glancing would be following the motion of going forward in my opinion and create less problems then the cars stopping suddenly and bouncing back into traffic. Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

Traveler
2017.02.21, 02:30 PM
I would have thought that too, but I have witnessed and can attest to what mleemor66 described.

With standard rails, cars tend to slow/stop/or even wedge under when making contact, and don't often bounce back into traffic. A good driver approaching will usually be able to avoid a wreck. With the liners, a car can glance off the wall and sideswipe, t-bone or be t-boned by oncoming traffic, and even a good driver would have more difficulty avoiding a wreck.

Seems counter intuitive, but that's what I recall, which is why the better drivers didn't care for the liners and they "disappeared" as he mentioned.

EMU
2017.02.21, 04:26 PM
The liners caused too much bounce back as described above. Would be more interested in a smooth surface on the RCP rail, that the cars dont get sucked into. Taping the rail with duct tape gave a good reaction to the car where it wouldnt bounce out to the middle of the track much, but wouldnt stop in place if you grazed the rail.

Over time, the rails degrade and start to rip apart. Especially the inside tight radius turn rails. At this time, you are basically only hitting the plastic pin that holds the rail in place.

This is just food for thought... I just know in tight sections, the cars getting sucked into the rails and caused major pile ups. Not looking to make RCP into a slot car track where you can ride the rails, but would be interested in a little more slide rather than a catch and stop effect.

The issue with the glancing rail liners stems from tight layout tracks, where if you glance too hard, you are pushed out into an area of track that would be on the line for the next corner. The guys that posted above tend to run tight layouts, on very high speed triple wide layouts, the issue is much less noticed in comparison.

I have raced on tracks with standard RCP rails, RCP rail liners, wooden barriers, foam insulation screwed through the track, RCP rails with velcro holding them in place on carpet with duct tape on the inside turn edges to prevent them from catching seemed to be the best effect of lower damage to the cars, and least disruption to the race.

If you could apply the texture shown above to the sides of the rails, it could work out well on all accords. It shouldnt allow cars to glance off the rail in such a manner that the wooden barriers or rail liners do, but should prevent them from stopping harshly on the racing line in front of other cars. Basically somewhere in between.

I only suggest this because you are looking to revamp the tracks.

Traveler
2017.02.22, 06:10 AM
Good points EMU!