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View Full Version : Roll Damper / Oil Shock Set or Self-Centering


Inferius77
2017.07.02, 12:04 AM
I bought my first Mini-Z about a week ago and have used it almost every day. I am blown away by its quality. It's a perfectly tuned machine. I bought a MR-03 VE Pro MM2 Chassis, with a La Ferrari body and a KT-18 transmitter.

After a week of using my MR-03, I find myself questioning the rear-suspension system. I find it too stiff, like if the circle part in the pic is displaced it wont easily slide back into place. You can see in the pic how the surface area around the disk is scratched up. (Don't know how its scratched) http://imgur.com/GDHWRGQ
(The link is better quality that the upload.)
I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, but my observations have gotten me wondering if there is a more efficient rear suspension i can replace the stock one with. Looking around, I found two things but I don't fully understand what they are. There's the Kyosho Route 246 R246 Mini-Z Roll Damper / Oil Shock Set for MR-03W MML (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=21172&quantity=1) and the Atomic Mini-Z MR-03/MR-02/MR-015 Self Centering Suspension System (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=22329&quantity=1).
Self centering sounds like it addresses my concern over it re-centering itself, but then again I don't know anything about the product. It might not even do what I think it does.
When I searched this sub-forum for stuff about rear suspension, I saw a lot of mention about Damper Plate System being recommended. I've gotta say, its pretty hard learning about this endless stuff on Mini-Zs. There's so much.

Here are some of my other current concerns with my miniz:
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=464063#post464063
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=464062#post464062
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=464064#post464064

arch2b
2017.07.02, 10:36 AM
its not uncommon. you can polish the disc area with very fine grade polishing sandpaper to help make it very smooth. it's still stock plastic though in the end. its a far better damper than the shock alone.

kyosho's route 246 stuff is high quality, expensive and sometimes far more complicated than typical aftermarket but they design it to fit perfectly. to see good examples of installations, look at ebay. i know that sounds odd but there is are JPN sellers (moving_dream is one) that sells used kits and they almost always have kyosho only parts. i can only guess that they are this way to participate in kyosho mini-z cup events in which only kyosho parts pare permitted. it's great to see actual examples though vs. instructional diagrams.

the atomic damper you reference, in my opinion, may have the same clearance issues as it's rather tall in my opinion. i've run that before and always find myself falling back to reflex racing disc damper (long since discontinued). now the top guys are most likely running some hybrid setup of mix and match parts and or multi-damper setups. this is great and it's proven to work however it also exponentially increases the things you need to tweak and fiddle with constantly to keep running tip top. i personally don't have time for that given all that i have to do on any given race day so i try to stick with KISS principal and really drive as best i can to make up the difference.

highly recommend asking around, testing others cars if you can with various things to see if it's really something you want to chase before making purchase. you can easily get sucked into the rabbit hole and end up with a box full of parts like me:p i have a bunch of atomic stuff i'd let go should wish to try them.

Inferius77
2017.07.02, 02:53 PM
I'm going to have to figure out what I want to replace mine with. I can see there are lots of options. My issue with clearance from the other thread is not something that would stop me from getting a good system. Mostly Because I'd rather have an Audi R8 body anyways. You're statement "it's still stock plastic though in the end" seems like you would definitely suggest replacing the Damper plates with any other material? As for the oil shock, it had my attention because it sounded efficient cuz it uses actual oil? But does that oil really help the rear suspension that much?

arch2b
2017.07.02, 03:16 PM
depends on what you intend on using the care for, regarding selection of damper system. for stock suspensions, the MM2 is great. you can smooth out the plastic, use grease/oil to further alter it's performance.

if your not concerned with staying stock, at the very least i would look at PN/Atomic/X-Power damper system or if your keen to stick with kyosho, Route 246. there are almost too many options to choose from. I know what fits my driving style so this is what i've stuck with for a long time. rear suspension, like front suspension can be a rabbit whole that is easy to find yourself deeper than intended. for best feedback, suggest what interests you, what your goal is for changing which aids in more experienced opinions that better match your needs.

Inferius77
2017.07.03, 01:37 PM
There really are so many choices, but information about them all is what's hard to find for me. What I'm going to be doing is racing on a flat track which I'll be building. Im probably going with low down carpet instead of interlocking foam mats. Layout will be about 24 by 8 feet. One straight-away with the rest being curves and corners. There are no local tracks around me. At least no one who advertiszes their existence. My group of friends would race with me, provided I provide the mini z and track. So that's my plan.

Edit: decided not to build a track, instead I bought rcp track.

cowboysir
2017.07.03, 07:05 PM
If I can offer any advice I'd suggest a couple key elements:

1.damper disks made out of delrin are less prone to surface scratches and stay nice and smooth over the long term.

2.Find a damper plate with a nice wide open area between the mounts to avoid problems with wire routing to the motor.

3. buy an item that provides an opportunity to mount at various heights (via shims/shock mount plate etc) so you can adjust positions of the disks relative to spring length on the lower part of the post...this to me is the most important aspect of damper action as having too much spring tension on the lower can seriously affect return to center movement.

4. Finding an item with a center shock mount (or even shock included) is a good thing...an oil based damper center shock can really help tune bounce out of a car even with different types of T-plates out there.

I don't have any one specific company as a favorite as I seem to have almost all of them in one form but if I were to choose one company that ticks almost all the boxes i'd go (online) to Kenon/PN Racing for one of their damper systems and either get the PN racing top shock or a Kyosho oil filled top shock

Inferius77
2017.07.06, 11:12 AM
Thanks for the further advice. It's very helpful. I'm almost done picking one out. My biggest worry is that the one that I buy will be incompatible. Do I need to make sure it says it fits 98mm? And fits mid-mount? And are there any shocks/Damper plates that don't work with the MM2?

arch2b
2017.07.06, 12:54 PM
when your talking aftermarket dampers with stock motor pods, if can get tricky or finicky as the center point of the rear end of the shock for aftermarket kits might not be designed to align with stock motor pods. I would suggesting asking about specific parts compatibility before purchasing as i'm sure someone here has tried just about every combination or has what you are looking to use and able to test.
It can be just a tricky with aftermarket motor pods as well, they tend to shift mounting points depending on motor mount design. some even offer some adjust ability in height for the mounting point.