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Eric
2002.11.18, 03:55 PM
Hello all,

I would like to start hand winding motors in the future. But I am ordering from a electronic surplus mail order company soon and they have some bare wire cheap. And I dont want to pay for shipping twice being a cheap skate. LOL

I was wondering what gauges of wire is best to use for hand winding motors.

Thanks,

Eric

Ken Mifune
2002.11.18, 04:10 PM
You can't use bare wire to wind motor armatures. The wire that is used has a resin or enamel coating for insulation.

edit: Try using 32ga - 26ga.

mryung
2002.11.18, 08:28 PM
Generally, we will use SWG30 or SWG31.

Eric
2002.11.20, 08:41 PM
Thanks,

Do you know where I can obtain this wire? I know where to get bare wire but I do not know where to get wire that is coated with enamel or resin.

Thanks in advance,

Eric

Ken Mifune
2002.11.20, 10:45 PM
Radio Shack has some variety. 'Good for experimenting with, but if you're going to be doing alot of winding, look for some kind of electronics supply & surplus.

DAMZer
2002.11.21, 07:15 PM
Check with the shop, Dave has some but its not listed.......yet.

Ken Mifune
2002.11.21, 07:38 PM
doh, That's right. I forget what gauges. Send'im an email.

dohc
2002.11.24, 08:58 PM
30 guage 37 t ;d

BJS-TF
2002.11.28, 02:16 PM
I use SWG26!

baseline
2002.11.28, 04:57 PM
alright, after getting the wire, how do you wind? how do you count the # of winds (around what?) and what patterns are generally followed? tips?

TheBoostInside
2002.11.28, 08:05 PM
If you bought a cheap radio shack motor the same size as a Z motor is it possible to wind it faster than a stock Z motor?

dohc
2002.11.29, 03:04 AM
there are many tekk-niques into hand winding motors. try unwinding your stock motor, then wind them maybe 20 winds less. might be an improvement but who knows. also i've been messin with the 24 guage, boy the armature gets heated quick. ill keep tryin another method.

TheBoostInside
2002.11.29, 12:34 PM
Yea I might try doing 20 winds less, since the x-speed is the same motor you get with your z just 50T instead of 70T. Who knows maby I can match an x-speed with what I have for free. :)

Ken Mifune
2002.11.29, 12:58 PM
Before there were alot of aftermarket motors, removing winds from stock was frequent. This method of creating a hot motor came shortly after the once popular method of swapping in a Tamiya armature. Then people realized thay should just rewind a bare arm.
Go for it. Don't go too low at first. Start with a 45 turn.

baseline
2002.11.29, 01:06 PM
how do you measure/test a motor to see if it is within tolerance to be used on a n/a or turbo Z?

dohc
2002.11.30, 08:34 AM
when you plug your motor to your pcb, full throttle it, and feel the fet, if its getting to hot, then you know it wont work and if it dont, then its fine ;d

TheBoostInside
2002.12.11, 08:48 PM
MysterE, told me that the lowest winds you can do w/ out a turbo is 43. :)

Ryan08
2002.12.11, 10:11 PM
You could just email Mini-z Modifier and he could give you a full course on hand winding motors...:D

Tango
2002.12.12, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by baseline
how do you measure/test a motor to see if it is within tolerance to be used on a n/a or turbo Z?

we just put the motor on a mini z to test.
it burns, then replace the FET.

So far, as I know, after replaced better FET, can run motors with around 30 turns.

Psyklops
2002.12.12, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by Ryan08
You could just email Mini-z Modifier and he could give you a full course on hand winding motors...:D

LOL @ Ryan08!!hehehe;) :D

Vagabond
2003.02.14, 12:16 PM
Can a 2x6 stacked FET handle a 30T motor hand wound with a SWG31 gauge with x-speed magnets?

BJS-TF
2003.02.15, 02:36 AM
WHY NOT?
Before put the motor to Mini-Z. I will a battery pack connect to the motor and the ammeter in series. If the no-load current is less then 1.5A is ok. About 0.6A can play about 15~20 min.
if about 0.9A can play about 10 min.

Vagabond
2003.02.16, 12:04 PM
What is the maximum mA a 2x6 stack FET can take? And what's the maximum a 2x10 stack FET can take?

Draconious
2003.02.16, 01:51 PM
if you have any thought that your custom motor might fry your Z.. the last thing you should do is actualy hook it to the Z... hook it to 4 AAA cells.. in series with an amp meter... full throttle it, if its under (whatever amps the Z fries at) its so far so good, now for the true test, hold it from spinning with your fingers or someting.. then full throttle it.. if its STILL under whatever amps fries the Z... then its ok to use... I am still not entirely sure how many amps it takes to totaly fry the Z... a logical guess would be 5A... but its probly only 1A ;) -- usualy an ESC has a continuous and a peak amperage rating... the Z should have it in the manual but does not. the peak is usualy a few amps higher then the continuous, the continuous is what u want to follow..

BJS-TF
2003.02.17, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Vagabond
What is the maximum mA a 2x6 stack FET can take? And what's the maximum a 2x10 stack FET can take?
It's not relate to how many FET you have. I believe 2 layer of FET can run ALL motor for mini-z.
The Main point is because the FET is surface mount. Between the FET and PCB is only the solder. I've test that if the loading current is about 1.5~2A. The solder will melt. That's the PCB limit. Not the FET limited.

Vagabond
2003.02.17, 10:51 AM
It's not relate to how many FET you have. I believe 2 layer of FET can run ALL motor for mini-z.

So are you saying that the MZ car use any motor with the loading current of 2.0A. Is that true?

BJS-TF
2003.02.17, 06:30 PM
Not can use 2A. Is "Must" less then 1.5A. If the motor loading current is about 2A. It only can run few second and then the solder will melt. The best current loading is about 0.5~1A. Can run about 10~15 min.

Vagabond
2003.02.17, 06:34 PM
If i'm winding my own motor, how would i know whether the motor loading current?

And i have a question about motor, if i'm winding my motor using SWG31, a strong magnet, and i want to have a powerful torque. Should i increase the number of turn on the armature or less?

ChaserRC
2003.02.17, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Vagabond
If i'm winding my own motor, how would i know whether the motor loading current?

And i have a question about motor, if i'm winding my motor using SWG31, a strong magnet, and i want to have a powerful torque. Should i increase the number of turn on the armature or less?

take a look of previous post by drac about calculating motor loading current method.

if you want to increase the torque of motor, the most easy way is to use a strong magnet as you mentioned, like neo magnet. increasing no. of turn is also another method to increase the torque as well.

Vagabond
2003.02.18, 07:08 AM
what if i increase the number of turn and also a stronger magnet?

Will this gives it amazing torque but low in RPM?

ChaserRC
2003.02.18, 08:53 AM
you can say so.. the key point is that you have to choose a suitable magnet and a correct no. of turn in order to have satified top speed and acceptable torque. carbon brushes and communtator are also the fact as well.

Draconious
2003.02.18, 11:22 AM
Increaseing turns and magnet will both increase the torque.. but yes the overal RPM will drop.. its turning more, theres less amps, and amps can sorta create more rpm... but there is also less resistance...

but, there is only so much space in a 130 motor, for so many winds, and so big of a magnet, wich is why I got the strongest friling magnet material I could find... 1 of my magnets can hold over 1 pound to a pair of pliers.. and you usualy put 2 in a motor ;). Try that with the stock magnets :D.

Basicly more magnet and more turns increases the SIZE of the motor, sort of like going form a small import engine to a larger chevy engine... but, that big engine needs more power to make it work etc, using 4 batteries, would be like going from a small 4 cylender, to a larger 4 cylender, make an 8cell mod and a larger motor and you have hell on wheels, but to keep it efficient and micro.. it should remain at 4 cells... and just tune it to perfection.

Its all a balance of what u put into the motor there are so frigin many variables its not funny, its sorta like calculating the orbit of a space shuttle, wich obviously even nasa has problems with on speratic occations.... This is why I started to make my Mini-Z speed calculator, why I kept asking for formulas and what not... but its just too much math to cram into one web page script :)

Electra
2003.03.17, 09:43 AM
The maximum rpm of a motor is limited by the inductance of the armature and the reluctance of the armature, the torque is limited by the strength of the magnets, the permeability of the armature and the resitance of the windings, brushes etc. and the dimensions of the armature

peak torque in Nm = average distance of windings in armature from pivot (m) * magnetic flux in the gap (T) * length of windings in the field(m) * permeabilty of core (dimensionless)*current in the windings (A) * number of windings (dimensionless)

Power loss = current ^ 2 * resistance

I suggest googling to find out what those terms mean if you dont know.

So a low wind motor has

Low inductance = high max rpm
Low Resistance = high current = inefficent
less wire in the field = less torque per amp

torque is produced by high current draw overall greater power but less efficent and potential to burn the fets. If the batteries cannot supply enough current it will not generate much torque either. Stron magnets need fewer winds to generate the same torque and should have a higher overall efficiency

High wind motor

High Inductance = low max rpm
higher resistance = less stall current
more wire in the field = higher torque per amp

even though the slall current is amller the torque will be higer because there is more wire in the field, because less current is needed the resistive losses are smaller (becuse it is current SQUARED if you halve the current but double the resistance you have still halved losses) this makes for a more efficent motor but less overall power

hope that helps