View Full Version : And yet, another NML original...

2003.05.12, 01:26 PM
Watch other Motor Makers imitate while I originate the Double wind series motors.

Features: Double wires for more RPM! Soon to be offered to the Mini Z masses.

This will be the first motor to be offered to the mini z masses with dual wires.

Triple winds soon to come!

2003.05.12, 01:29 PM
I just perfected my design last night. Let's see how the Brand X's compare to this. :D

I'm determined to keep raising the bar to promote the growth of mini z sport.

2003.05.12, 01:53 PM
okay i'll be the first to say it, enough with the hyping up of your "new and improved design" motors. It's childish and quite frankly annoying after a while.

I think your motors are fast and all but come on dude, either stick with a design or quite broadcasting about a new and improved motor every week.

I'll be perfectly honest with you, as you know i've bought several motors from you in the past and i've actually disassembled a few of them. Some of these were good and some weren't, hell one of the motors didn't even have the wires soldered onto the comutator, they were just stripped and the tabs were folded back. I blew that off thinking that it made no affect on the performance. But the fact remains that I am no longer interested in purchasing any of your motors for the simple fact that next week your going to have a "new and improved" design for you to "regulate" against the competition.

Why should I, or anyone for that matter spend their hard earned money on a product that they know might be out dated by the time they break it in?


2003.05.12, 02:03 PM
thats kinda harsh...

hes got a right to post here too. i can see why you'd find his posts excessive, but this one was not bad.

NML, you need your own website!:p

2003.05.12, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by wrcracer
thats kinda harsh...

hes got a right to post here too. i can see why you'd find his posts excessive, but this one was not bad.

NML, you need your own website!:p

agreed, he does have a right to post just like everyone else. Its not this particular post, its the culmination of all the posts ive read. Sorta like the straw that broke the camels back :)

2003.05.12, 02:41 PM


First, I would like to thank you for your support when I first took my motors to where they
are now. You were the one person I talked to the most as I was in the developmental stages. The
motors you got from me are prehistoric, nearly one year ago, are nowhere near what I make now.
Sorry that you are annoyed about my post. Maybe youíre right. So, because of this, I will refrain
from selling my latest innovation; however, we have a mini z race this weekend and Iím sure
other participants would like to see the differences. Also, quite frankly, itís been a while since I
posted anything pertaining to my recent developments.

I want to clarify that the only motor you bought from me is the Old Evader. All others were
pretty much given to you. You paid for the cost of the motor parts, and I can assure you that I
even ate some of the cost up. Maybe youíre right, that my post gets annoying, but this is still
motor tech section, and my topic pertains to motor tech.

Sorry for not being able to respond to your email when you asked me how things are going.
My bad. Iím a busy man, and if I donít respond to you soon enough, I will eventually. I do that to
my friends too.

If you broke down your motor, thatís fine. You never told me any of this, so why are you
telling me now? I think this reply is fueled by something more personal, and I hope itís not
because you didnít get a reply from me.

So, Iím making it clear that my motor is no longer for sale. But I will continue to introduce my
latest developments. My customers are very happy with my motors, even from overseas, so if
youíre motors became junk, the only thing I can think of, is you tampered with it, which I make
clear that you do not, and/or they are simply prehistoric technology.

And if you see any of my post, simply ignore it. But I'm making it clear that I am no longer selling my motors at the moment. I will post results of comparisons this Sunday. Wheter other brand motors are faster or not.

I ain't mad at cha. As a matter of fact, I thank you for supporting me before I blasted off.

2003.05.12, 02:53 PM
You have a point about why should you spend your hard earned money on something that will
be outdated in a few months. Computers companies do that too. But some of my older designs
still prove faster than other motors, and these came directly from my customers.

Closing point: Either the mini z can stay where it is, or take it to a higher level. Itís called
progress/evolution/change. Without it, mini zís will never progress.

Someone has to do it.

2003.05.12, 04:11 PM
First of all Maxedoutcc, you need to slow your role.

Second of I have a few NML setups and I will just say now if it wasn't for NML I would have thrown away my Z's a long time ago and traded them in for an RS4 or something.

But because of NML and his motors, I am able beat most people with Rs4's at my LHS.

6 Cells--36 Fets--NML Motor=Pretty upset RS4 owners!

Also most people on this board act like NML motors are overpriced and to expensive. But since when can you get anything custom for a low price. NOMOTORLIMIT is one person. These motors are not mass produced. Each of these motors probably take a good 3 or 4 hours to make.

Speed costs but I think it is worth it.


I think you should keep on posting because people who are in the pursuit of REAL speed (like me) are always interested in your posts.

BTW, could you explain more about the dual and triple wire design. How does that make the car faster?


2003.05.12, 04:38 PM

Thanks bro. But I'll respect their request and not post as much, which I haven't really been doing for a few weeks (motor stuff). Truly, bro. Your support is very much appreciated.

Regarding the motor: All motors available to the market, including mine, have been singles. This means that only one strand of wire was used to wind up the armature.

Doubles, hence the name, means that two, instead of one strand are used to wind up the armature.

With the same amount of winds, or number of turns, as we refer to it, the dual one offers more RPM, while the single wind offers more torque. The more wires you put, as Pro-z puts it, the smoother powerband. Which is very true, especially with 1/10th scales. Examples are 8x6, 11 quint, etc. etc. but these may not work for mini z's. I think either triple or quad would be max.

It has something to do with how fast the current go through the magnet wires.

I will be doing some test runs this coming get together, and will post results of performances.

Thanks again, bro. I will let you know via email progress.

2003.05.12, 05:01 PM
Well your Fuzion project includes motors, and you were post those quite frequently a few weeks ago... so it hasnt been that long since your last post like this. Just may not apear that way since most of them were "reclaimed".

Also your not the first to make a motor with more then one wind ;) even I have done that... and it did work, was just a bit too fast, it flew apart inside from centrifical force, was a bad idea to run it max voltage with no load :). I will admit mine was 7 winds and not 2 or 3 ;) but it was more then one and that was my point.

Any way more wires is jsut less resistance for the armature... wich reduces the amps, but lets more volts through in a way... Its an efficiency thing if any thing...

resistance voltage and amps... are the 3 keys to the electric motors. Amps will produce the torque, volts will produce more rpm.

If done wrong, a double wind can be COUNTER PRODUCTIVE... hopefuly NML has made a few that SLOWED down rather then sped up to figure out how to avoid doing that ;).

2003.05.12, 05:08 PM

you obviously missed my point. okay, so you did make a motor with more than one wire. Good for you, but before Brian complained about me posting, or whatever, I was going to introduce it to the market, which non of these so called motor makers are currently offering, and I am proud to be the first to offer it. Thinking about it, I no longer see anymore reason why I should refrain from selling. Hell, if someone wants it enough, he or she will get it, whether it's from this site or through e-bay, or through the recycler classifieds, or the L.A. Times or Wall Street Journal.

congratulations on being a super moderator, btw.:cool:

2003.05.12, 05:10 PM
I love NML's posts. He does some really cool stuff.

Here is how I look at it: the only constant is change, if nothing changed, there would be NO posts here and the site would essentially go stale. One would be a bit silly to think that a "motor-moddin" guy would stop modding. If he is improving his design weekly, I would love to see and read about it.

Just my $.02. I think NML has every right to post his work, as you have every right to post your thoughts...now, them be my thoughts! :D

2003.05.12, 05:26 PM
i agree in that nml's posts add to the excitement of motor development and performance and should continue to do so, however the "mine is better and faster than yours" responses are childish and totaly detract from the importance of his original message, whatever that may be. references such as "so called motor makers" are derogetory in nature and offensive to whom they are directed. totaly not necessary. nml's reputation is well know and read hear. one would believe that with that reputation you wouldn't have to resort to argumentative replies, which have been easy to spot anytime a motor comparison is mentioned.

that being said, nml- keep posting, keep making motors...i'll be hear reading. just please refrain from the playground arguments etc....we all loose in those situations. (posts/threads get "reclaimed")

2003.05.12, 06:01 PM
I apologize for the attitude, arch2b. One day, I'll explain why I'm a MMWA, and hopefully, that will shed some light on some things.

no more attitude.

Off/On Topic: I will be putting up a program for my previous customers, and I will give further details on this when I'm ready. One thing that matters to me the most is to take care of my customers any way I can. And this is directed to those who feel that they wasted their money because I constantly search for ways to improve my creations.

2003.05.12, 06:01 PM

Keep it up! If it was not for the pursuit of speed none of us would
be here! Hmmm, what's that called that I watch on Sundays.....oh
yeah, A RACE!!!
I have the need for speed!!!!

2003.05.12, 06:08 PM
:D , keep the news/posts coming...i'm not a speed freak but i like to read about those who are:D

2003.05.12, 06:28 PM
whats MMWA?

_Motor Man With Attitude_

haha I crack myself up:D


2003.05.12, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by MazdaSpeedRX-7
whats MMWA?

_Motor Man With Attitude_

haha I crack myself up:D



Lol! If this was a contest, you would've won a motor. Correct, or Motor Maker with Attitude. lol.

2003.05.12, 09:42 PM
Dude i was gonna say Motor Maker but I thought Motor Man sounded harder.


2003.05.12, 11:52 PM
hi all... speed freaks and speed addicts of the like...

knowing that nml is known here in these forums... basically from the quality of motors that he designs, and makes...

i'm suggesting that nml have a special forum under general discussion... so in addition to new products, setups, parts and hop ups, etc. etc. .... there would be a forum dedicated to nml... say... "nml motors"... or "nml products"... or "ask nml".... er i don't know... maybe we can even have a name nml's forum and win a motor thing...

that way people who are interested in a motor, or somebody with a question regarding nml's motors would know right away where to look...

... some points that have been raised in this thread are very interesting... i.e. evolution... if there wasn't anybody doing some research... i guess we all still would be driving a model t... or a vw... or maybe just a one design car...

... and without criticism... i guess life would be boring...

we just have to take it... either with a grain of salt, or more constructively to find out what we can do better...

just my .02 centemos

why compete??
2003.05.13, 01:21 AM
if it werent for NML i would of chucked out my Z coz it is dead but im getting my $$ together slowly 2 get a NML, now a new PCB/ESC just 2 see how they really goooo.

NML is a business man and this forums is where he promotes his business and just like other companies each day they are keeping up and making new stuff just like NML...

so keep up that good work NML and keep up the good work (from what i have read:p ) and keep them motors coming, once i get a better income i plan on getting a fuzion 5th cell upgrade.. are they still going around:confused:

why compete??
2003.05.13, 01:22 AM
i think hermas idea is a good 1 :D i rekon he gets it:)

2003.05.13, 07:01 AM
I think Herman's Idea is also a good one.

But I know MZR will not let him do that.


2003.05.13, 07:30 AM
How about a market place forum, where all the workshop vendors can display their wares?

2003.05.13, 09:27 AM
the misc. section is already there for sales between members....

the reason your not likely to see an nml section is the same reason your not likely to see a pro z section, this forum is an extension of a business...it is supported by the sales from the shop. it wouldn't make good business sense to open up other vendors who aren't making the same financial contributions...economics 101. what would be nice is like pro z, chaser rc, dracnious, z speed (as examlpes) and other vendors that frequently post here, would for nml to have his own sales site...and continuing to contribute news, updates, racing news, reviews, help etc. here as other vendors/members do.
i'm not saying nml purposefuly uses this forum exclusively for sales, while i'm sure his reputation here delivers quite a few, but it would resolve alot of issues which generate conflicts/controversy.

on a side note: the fuzion upgrade is available on myster e's sales site...i don't know which one...but it's there (http://home.earthlink.net/~esaflip37/INTERNALTURBO.htm)

2003.05.13, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by why compete??
Re: NML can post as much as he wants...

why compete,

Sure, anyone can Post as much as they want, but when it comes to advertising products via the Forums you are very mistaken.
Unless you believe you run the Forums!
NML, the Mods and Mini-Z have a good relationship. Rod knows when he's overstepped the mark and he isn't too big to step back and apologise either. We welcome his input, he's been on the Forums since they first started.
Anyone remember InitialDeezaNutz ?
I do, as does Herman, Drac, Russ and a few of us real oldies :)

Anyway, why compete even NML went through a stage where he wanted to "retire" from the Mini-Z game.

Here's Ken Mifune's candid view on the "NML Retirement Era"


why compete??
2003.05.13, 09:57 AM
no no no sorry i didnt explain my self correctly MONDO.

it is meant 2 mean NML can post here like we do freely and like every one else sells each other stuff over this forum. it is all for the fun and the friendship of Zeeing isnt it... what would the world be with just a bunch of Z's that are all the same, how boring:mad: and i think the idea of new NML products coming out all the time is good for him and alot of others in the sport of MINI-Z.

if this doesnt make sense please tell me so i cal listen a bit more in school... i gotta ne ways:p too much fun and not enough study

why compete??
2003.05.13, 10:00 AM
oh yeah and please dont get too harsh on me please mondo im only still a kid and i dont think i run the forums, we know who does that Mini-Z and all the moderators keep this thing going. how many of us think we know it all but dont. like me for example i though i knew alot about mini R/C till i found this stie and met all you guys, thats y i keep coming back coz u guys are full of info and are willing to share it with others in the game.

2003.05.13, 10:52 AM
Wow, now, I apologize that this thing is getting bigger than I expected.

That wasn't my intention. Big thanks to all who have given support. And thanks to a wonderful forum.

Whycompete, since you are overseas, and I know how much of a biatch the currency conversion is, when you have saved enough money, you let me know, and I will hook your Z to 5 cell NML NOs at Cost! Parts, Shipping, and that's it. Oh, and maybe lunch money. LOL.

Pretty soon, I will have a program for all previous NML motor owners. When I'm ready, I will make the announcement here.

I decided to do it, so that my previous customers will not feel that they spent their money on an outdated NML motor. This way, they won't feel that once I have their money, it's a done deal. Once you're NML, you're family. Aks ngluder

There will be a very few people excempt from this program. They will know who they are, if and when they email me.

Website is on its way. Just been very busy to update it. Most likely, within next month, it will have the latest models.

Extremejoy.net this website is owned by a once customer turned good friend. It is Cleaner Z's.

We'll be updating it in the very near future. I might also put up either a forum, or a news update section, where I can say whatever the ****I want. j/k

Again, I apologize. Mondo, I won't deny, I recently told a few friends that I might retire after 100 more motors, but a BIG part of me is not done. There's a lot more to be explored, and I want to explore the unexplored. And there's a Big possibility that NML motors will be in the market for a long time.

Thanks again, guys. I will let you guys know the results after this Sunday.


2003.05.13, 11:02 AM
NML- nice track pictures, nice cars;) please continue to post news etc here as well, it's very interesting reading....oh, would love to see video of the overland tug of war at your next meet;)

2003.05.13, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by why compete??
NML can post here like we do freely and like every one else sells each other stuff over this forum

Why Compete??

They used to, but we've applied a few guidelines, I've seen many a noob Member join the Forums just to sell his/her/its Mini-Z off.

Originally posted by NOMOTORLIMIT
Again, I apologize. Mondo, I won't deny, I recently told a few friends that I might retire after 100 more motors, but a BIG part of me is not done. There's a lot more to be explored, and I want to explore the unexplored. And there's a Big possibility that NML motors will be in the market for a long time.

Rod, no need to apologize bud :)
I Posted the link to that old "NORETIREMENTLIMIT" Thread for fun

I was one of your first overseas customers and your old Evader motors exceeded my expectations. In fact I still use them and they still perform exceptionaly well.
I've still to be beaten by any UK Mini-Z owner and although I've only raced a few times, boy were they suprised when my Evader/TLP Twin Turbo equiped CLK made their X-Speed Mini-Zs look like Tomy Bit-CharGes in speed comparison.

NML the bottom line is your always welcome here and you have a lot to contribute, and it's always good stuff. The Forums just wouldn't be the same without you.

I think maxedoutcc could be a little frustrated by the pace at which you turn out new motor designs.
I'm all for progress myself and change is always a good thing.

Guys don't take any of the comments personally, I'm always up for a good debate on the Forums.

Enjoy :D

2003.05.13, 01:14 PM
Well in that case what are your Veiws on Global Warming?

HAHA Just Kidding


why compete??
2003.05.14, 01:01 AM
thanks NML i nearly got enough and i will pay a feast for u:D

i have been working every day after school this week so the $BLING$ is comin' in...

i kinda like the idea of what ur getting at NML kinda like a book exchange but with ur motors send em in and pay some dollars and get a upgrade or something... that way nothing will go outter date :p just my thoughts and thanks for the offer u made me... i said it before and so have many others ur da man and the new 1 2 me MMWA

Hooters Driver
2003.05.14, 01:56 AM
This may be slightly off the subject, but I have a technical question for NML or anyone else with technical motor knowledge. Why not just use a single wind of larger diameter wire instead of using multiple winds of small diameter wire? It seems a single wind of larger wire would be more efficient (less voltage drop) than multiple winds of small wire?

2003.05.15, 12:59 AM
I'm sorry NML for not being in the forum defending you even though I always support you outside of this forum. Shame on you who question his ability and complain about his new creations! From my experience with NML for quite sometime now, I know that he does come out with new creations all the time. Hey! You just can't stop a great mind from working, you just have to step back and enjoy the show! I do admit that he doesn't always pull out a great invention, that's what Research & Development section is there for. I've seen some that he made that I was pretty impressed but since he wasn't too happy with them he canned the idea and started over. Trust me, he wouldn't anounce any invention of his unless IT IS GOOD! I've seen him getting so down hearing something went wrong with one of his motors, I can't really speak for everyone else who make motors like he does but I got to tell you folks. This man has passion for this field, you can even say that he's a perfectionist. He will go out of his way to make sure that you guys out there are satisfied with his work. I've never seen that with anyone else that sell products that they made themselves. If something goes wrong they would say it's the shippers' or customers' fault and never point a finger at themselves, unlike NML. Any who, what I'm trying to say is that if you ever have NML motor(s) and not be impressed by his craftsmanship, you're in a wrong hobby.

Mondo - Are you still really using the Evader with TLP Twin Turbo? Wow! I used to have the same set up before I was convinced by NML to move to fuzion. Even now I'm not all there with the fuzion because I'm not using the fuzion equiped motor. Instead, I'm using this special custom made motor that NML made just for me and you know what? This motor kick @$$! What can I say? NML loves me... Ha ha, J/K. I do made him feel bad sometimes by saying bad things about the performance of the car but everytime we always come back to the conclusion that it was me who was imcompetant because when NML use my car to run, I don't even see a slight problem with it, the problem was me, the man behind the wheel.

Oh well enough said, I'm going to see if my AE86 Trueno is done so I can drive it to G2G on Sunday. Also, I've been finger f**king with my web site so it's not all that great yet. Please be patient, I do have a forum ready to be used but I just got to put it in place.

2003.05.15, 03:08 AM
Larger-wire OR multiple-parrallel-winds basicly do the same thing.... the motor will benifit or penalize in the same way.

However a larger wire next to other larger wires, will also have a larger void between all the strands of wire. (in a cross section view). Draw A hexegon on a piece of paper, draw the largest even circle you can fit in it... then draw the same size hexigon next to it, and draw as many cirles as you can fit in it of 1/4 the diameter of the large circle... or even smaller if you have the time to draw that many... if you were to do math and calculate it out, the smaller circles will take up more area of the hexigon... if you acount for the fact that the wires next to it will overlap the hexigon... well its a bad example so just pretend it works ;).

The area would be the equivelent to the width of a highway.. you can fit more cars down the high way if its wider, less resistance, more voltage, more RPM out of it.

But it does not stop there, the larger benifit is the surface area of the wire itself... the outer circumfrance, a lot of the current is carried on the outer surface of the wire, not through the center, so the numorous wires helps increase the surface area of the wire... and thus improves it that much more.

Depending on how the motor is wound it can be a miniscule difference, it can HINDER the motor, or it can greatly improve the motor...

I have told NML a few times to do double winds... since most of the 130 motors are 70 turns, and most mod Mini-Z motors are only 35 turns. So logic says might as well use twice the wire, but in parallel instead of one long wire.

One trick is to wind say 35 turns of a larger diameter wire...and 30 turns of a slightly narrower diameter wire, for an attempt to get a motor that helps at different voltage/amp ranges... I guess, actual benifits of it will have to be left to testing. :)

2003.05.15, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by Cleaner-Z
Mondo - Are you still really using the Evader with TLP Twin Turbo? Wow! I used to have the same set up before I was convinced by NML to move to fuzion.

Indeed I am. They were BB can Evaders.
My Z's dont get used too much as I've moved on to (slightly) bigger and better things, altough I still love my Z's with a passion.
One is in my CLK, the other is in my F1 which is being converted to a GTP car.

My Overlands are the most used Zs right now, yea they use X-Speeds but theyre ideal for playing around with.

2003.05.15, 04:28 AM
a bit off topic...

hey mondo... did you get a kawada yet??? man they rock!!!

2003.05.15, 03:44 PM
I don't post here much. I like to use the good old search button, so I try not to waste your time. So I was reading this post laughing my a$$ off. It is like the people freaking out about building a battery pack for the Pro-Z. It seems alot of people just use there cars for show, this is the same for 1/28 1/18 1/10 and 1/1 scale cars I am not trying to say that is a bad thing. But if your really build cars 1/1, you know you try to do anything to get even an increase of 1 or 2 horsepower. So I am amazed when I see people complaing about inovation. Well back to the new NML motor, I was wondering if mini-z motors are epoxy balanced like 540 size motors. Or does it not make a difference because they are so small? I just had a stroker built for my Jeep and had the crank balanced and I know it made the beast smooth as hell. I don't know much about the price of his motors, but people just shelled out mad cash for the Reedy Ti, and now they just came out with the Reedy Kr. I do not see many people bashing an artist like Reedy. Sorry about the long post, I can not wait to see how the testing turns out, and I look forward to ALL your (NML) posts. And I will have to look into one of those double turns, since it sounds like your the Keath Black of the mini-z motor.

2003.05.15, 04:00 PM

If you're in the Socal area, why not email me at nomotorlimit@hotmail.com. We are having a mini z get together this Sunday from 11:00 am till sun down. You are more than welcome to join us. Thanks for the support, guys, btw.

I have an armature balancer, though not computerized, which I haven't bothered playing with. I noticed even with the high-powered Tamiya Mini 4wd, the motors are not balanced. But this is definitely one feature I plan to offer in the near future. But, instead of epoxy, I will be drilling the armature, or maybe both.

I won't mention the name of the other company that balances their arms with epoxy. I tested it on my balancer and it still had a major dead spot, which is very common with machine wound motors. No offence to my statement. My intention is not to make other motor companies look bad. Also, the commutators claimed to be as diamond cut may be true, but in a mass produced method. But me personally, I have to individually cut the commutators with my special lathe. This makes my motors fully rebuildable, just like the 1/10th scale motors.

email me your phone number so I can give you details on our get together. We had a lot of fun the last time and would be nice if you could share in on it.

2003.05.15, 04:33 PM
Thanks for the invite, but Ihave to work on Sunday(but I will try to make it to one of your get togethers). I have a few 540 motors that are drilled for balance. I assume the epoxy would be cheeper thats why the "big" motor makers use it. I know they drilled my crank at the race shop, and my philosophy is if they do it to a race car, it must be good. What is the minimum upgrade to your board that you need to run that new motor?

2003.05.15, 06:00 PM
some are for 6x2 and the other is for 13x2. Hope you can join use one day.

2003.05.15, 11:56 PM
i hope i can too :o

2003.05.17, 06:20 PM
kinda off topic: about double turn motors, about a month ago i made a double-37 turn motor and it's really fast, 36 turns is the max you can double with the stock gauge wire. any how , winding motors is a very very hard task. it takes hours to properly wind a motor, and if you accidently drop the motor and some wind came off , you will have to restart the whole prosses.
my point is , if nml wants to advertise changes to his motor every week or even hour, he could. that's what the fourm are all about.
( i hope this is wha all the fuss is about, i didn't read all the post:D lol)

keep up the good work NML

Hooters Driver
2003.05.18, 02:52 AM

Thanks for the in-depth explanation. It really turned the light on inside my dark head.