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RC TV
2003.07.31, 10:33 AM
International Association of Mini Z Racing


Recently a small group of men came together to for a two day conference on the subject of the Mini Z by Kyosho. We were taken back by the Mini Z’s low operating cost, nimble handling and highly detailed bodies. Because of these great qualities the Mini Z’s lend themselves well to competition. Unfortunately the only rules set up for this class of cars is from Kyosho for their mini Z cup. This competition leaves out those racers that have aftermarket accessories. The International Association of Mini Z Racers herein referred to as IamZ evolved out of the need to provide standardized rules and regulations, promote good sportsmanship, HAVE FUN and crown a World Champion.! Annual membership will be $9 US, and includes a copy of the 2003-2004 rule book, enables member to be eligible to compete in the Worlds race to be held in 2004, semi-annual news letter that will feature new mini Z products, regional and international race coverage and a list of fellow Z racers.
IamZ Championship races will be televised on RC TV which airs on PBS.

IamZ are you?
Promotional videos will be made available to hobby shops. Contact Jeffrey Maturo the executive producer of RC TV at JMaturorctv@aol.com for more information.

Kagan
2003.07.31, 12:44 PM
Great!

Standardized rules and regulations is just what the 1:24 - 1:28 miniracing class desperatly needs.

Who are you guys? Namedropping of well known and reliable RC-enthusiast can be a boost in your effort to become The International Association of Mini Z Racing we all have been waiting for. As well as a homepage.

Anyway, if you all ready got a deal with a television company to air your (our?) organisations Mini-Z Championship I must admit that I'm impressed!

I Wish the IamZ the best of luck and may it chose the right path.

PAULANGELO
2003.07.31, 12:56 PM
OK, you have my attention. how do we join? Through our local hobby shops? Do you take paypal? Where are the races going to take place to crown the champion? So many questions!!

RC TV
2003.07.31, 01:29 PM
We knew there would be many questions. We are currently working on getting our web-site up and running. Members will be able to access all types of information right off the web. Joining will be as simple as sending a check to IamZ. We will have the address and further info forthcoming. In regards to who is spearheading the organization, I guess I can take credit for that. My company Ambassador Productions which produces RC TV has covered many races and types of RC vehicles over the year, none of which we have enjoyed so much as the Mini Z. In addittion to our regular program RC TV, we are producing a thirty minute special for the SPEED NETWORK just on the Mini. We suspect in the future they are going to be VERY popular! I will post more info as it becomes available. Thanks for you interest.

95_civic_gsr
2003.07.31, 03:11 PM
I think there are groups of people who are looking for this sort of hobby
right now. It seems that families are not traveling as much and are looking
for more family things to do closer to home. I think the Mini-Z can provide
such a hobby. Best of all you can race them anytime because they are
indoors. Rain, Winter, Blazing 100 degree Texas heat can't even keep
you from racing Mini-Zs indoors.

I think your Television show is hitting at just about the perfect time.

I checked on PBS.org and I couldn't find a show time listing. Can you
tell us when your show will be airing?

Kagan
2003.07.31, 03:51 PM
RC TV and 95_civic_gsr I share your belives about the future of 1:27 scale rc cars.

About the rules and regulations. Right now I would guess that quite many would like to know what types of chassies or classes IamZ will promote and allowe.

I understand that people shall pay their fee to recive the full sets of rules and regulations and be able to participate in the IamZ competions. But some clues would be nice, espacially to all those who are thinking about buying a new car, will ImzA allow other 1:24 - 1:28 scale RC cars with 130 engines and 4 'AAA' cells like the Kawada Tripmate? Pro-Z? ABC? and so on...

Or just Kyosho Mini-Z with as you wrote it
"aftermarket accessories"?

Feed the hungry sharks with a clue ;)

RC TV
2003.07.31, 04:02 PM
I will make it easy on you. Purchase a Kyosho vehicle if you plan on racing in IamZ. As far as RC TV....we are currently completing our 4th season on PBS. There are currently no shows airing as stations are waiting for the new season, the last three have been rerun into the ground. There are 256 independant PBS stations with thier own program director that determines when and where we air. For example we may be on in Chicago on Tuesday afternoon at 4 or Los Angles on Sunday morning at 7 am. We have no control over it. I will post rules and classes later this evening. Thanks for your interest. (for the record we are not affiliated with Kyosho) we just really think these are great little cars and would like to give the hobby some direction.

Kagan
2003.07.31, 06:21 PM
I'm sorry to hear that.

Your first lines where more in line with my wishes of a more competitive and not such monopolistic 1:27 RC scale class.

Originally posted by RC TV
[...]Unfortunately the only rules set up for this class of cars is from Kyosho for their mini Z cup. This competition leaves out those racers that[...]

A Kyosho only racing league without any connections to Kyosho seams to me like Mazda Miata Cup without support from Mazda, kind of hard to belive in the reality.

Im sorry for the harsh tone but IamZ has chosen to shut the door for so many other manufacturers* which now must chose to work against the organization instead of wholehartly supporting it.

*Kawada, Tamiya, ABC, Yokomo, Aktiv Road Racer, Squat, Liquid-Z, Pro-Z and so on.

Mondo
2003.07.31, 06:26 PM
Guys,

As exciting as this organization sounds, I wouldn't classify this announcement as a "new product"
As we like to keep the Forums in an orderly manner, I took the onus of moving this Thread to the Regional Discussion Forum.
I have left a re-direct in the original Forum (as you will have noticed) and this will enable the Thread to be accessed from the "New Products" Forum.
I wish you all the best with your new venture.

Kagan asked who the "guys" were.
Going to drop a name or two? I know Bud Bartos isn't involved! :)

RC TV
2003.07.31, 08:17 PM
Kagan,

We know we will not be able to make everyone happy, and feel that is in everyones best interest if you do not become a member of IamZ. We are sorry that our organization is not for you but we know you will be much better off racing in other venues. Below is the PROPOSED rules:
International Association of Mini Z Racers

2003 Rules


Stock Racer: Raced straight out of the box. First generation as well as the second generation MR-2 racer may be used. Vehicle must be as is from Kyosho. No ball bearings, no spring changes, batteries may be NIMH or NICAD up to 750 mah or alkaline but must be AAA. Any KYOSHO tires and wheels may be run including aluminum wheels. Stock motor from KYOSHO only. No modifications allowed whatsoever.

Modified Racer: Must retain original tub chassis. Any modified motor. NO turbo's or added fets. Any tires and wheels. Any hop ups. Any AAA rechargeable batteries. Any KYOSHO body.

Outlaw Racer: Any stock or aftermarket Mini z chassis including CG lowering kits. AAA batteries of any type or accommodating batteries for your particular chassis as long as it is 1/28 scale and uses hard plastic Mini Z bodies. Turbo's, extra fets and any modified or stock motor allowed. Any hop ups including tire and wheel selection.

F1 stock: Raced straight out of the box. No ball bearings, no spring changes, batteries may be NIMH or NICAD up to 750 mah or alkaline but must be AAA. Any KYOSHO tires and wheels may be run including aluminum wheels. Stock motor from KYOSHO only. No modifications allowed whatsoever.

F1 Modified: Must retain original tub chassis. Any modified motor. NO turbo's or added fets. Any tires and wheels. Any hop ups. Any AAA rechargeable batteries. Any KYOSHO body.

Pro-Z Racing
2003.08.01, 03:07 AM
RC TV - Great initiative on IamZ. If i understand correctly your trying to develop a racing organization like ROAR or NORRCA and hold sanctioned events collect dues. What will the Dues be used for? Only the privilege of racing? How is this different form Kyosho Sponsored Events minus dues?

Kyosho already has there own Reginals and national championships.

All major manufactures have there own exclusive product event. HPI Challenge, Tamiya Cup, Reedy Race, Novak Race, Kyosho Cup... I've been to them all


"RC TV - we just really think these are great little cars and would like to give the hobby some direction.

What Direction is that?

The entire RC racing community all across the world has the same format for racing.

Scale / Motor stock:mod / Battery #cell:size / Body = Class

Class is split further by on-road or off-road, 2WD or 4WD,

example:
mini z F1 is a 1/24th scale, electric, 4 cell AAA, open wheel class 2WD
mini z Overland 1/28 scale, electric, 4 cell AAA, off road class 2WD
mini z racer 1or2 is a 1/28th scale, electric, 4 cell AAA, on-road sedan 2WD
mini x 1/24th scale, electric, 4 cell AAA, on-road 4WD

All these rules have been established for every scale of racing down to 1/18th

We Need an organization to determine for small scale racing. What exactly is a Stock motor. What makes are legal bodies for class. What is the legal height, weight, length, ride height, tire rule for each class? That would be worth the $9 bucks. Anyone could just copy the Kyosho website and add a run what ya brung class.

Small scale racing has no organization to keep it from being a FAD only Kyosho Cup pushing you to buy there products exclusively. Now they will have IamZ to push there products further. How is this going to keep competitive racing alive? Driving a Box stock k car will not keep anyone interested for long. An organization with an eye towards the future to keep us all racing 3-4 years from now, instead of all this time energy and money spent to fill a half hour of PBS with Kyosho propaganda.


Wish IamZ the best of luck if it ever opens up to more than Kyosho brand cars I'm sure other manufactures would be interested in supporting same as how it works with larger scale racing. The booming metropolis of Mini Z Hong Kong which once had 20 Tracks is now down to 4 This is obvious the Fad is fading. Lets all try to keep small scale racing expanding instead of Stifling it from the start.

My $1.02 cents

RC TV
2003.08.01, 08:59 AM
Pro-Z you have several very good points. I will attempt to answer your questions one at a time. IamZ is a non profit organization.The dues goes towards a web-site, the WORLD EVENT race, which includes paying trophy girls, rent for the racetrack, advertising, a newsletter and postage, Trophies and expenses. We do not mind giving our time but feel IamZ should be self sufficient. It is different from Kyosho because of what will occur and what vehicles and accessories can be used. Yes Kyosho has there own race and we support it 100% unfortunately you can only run Kyosho products. We wanted to have an organization where other manufacturers products could be used to compete. I guess you did not understand the PROPOSED rules. We are very sorry to hear you are so anti-Kyosho. You must have had a very bad experience with them. We have absolutely no affiliation with them other them having thier products on RC TV along with every other manufacturer in the RC industry. We have covered RC and RC racing since 1995 and really like the idea of the Mini Z. That is the REASON we started IamZ. We understand IamZ will not be for everyone and it definately looks like it is not for you, that is ok. Hopefully you be able to watch the race in the comfort of your own living room on tv at home. You can root for your favortie driver. As far as it being a fad, we dont think so. Everything in the RC industry is cyclical. After this hits the airwaves it will pick up. They offer everything, low price, scale good looks, and raceablility. We appreciate your support. Thanks.

Viper racer
2003.08.01, 09:08 AM
I really like this idea but where can i find more info on RC TV

Kagan
2003.08.01, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by RC TV
[...]They offer everything, low price, scale good looks, and raceablility.[...]

RC TVYou seam to miss the point on purpose; if you are only allowed to race Kyosho cars then you are supporting a monopolistic situation and that is domed to lead to higher prices, lower quality and less race ability.

Only by supporting market competition you will work for the drivers, consumers and lower prices, higher quality and so on.

Pro-Z is perhaps the number one race chassis for 1:27 scale racing cars. Other brands are challenging, se the list I posted above. Those will leave this scale and move on if people aren’t allowed to race with their products. I’m totally for a step-in Kyosho only stock class, but then ad one or two classes that allows modified Kyosho Mini-Z or other brands in the same scale, with the same amount of cells, motor size and so on.

Drivers will lose interests when they can’t develop their cars in more ways than little tweaking with the tires and perhaps a part or two in aluminum.

Successful organizations that only support Kyosho cars will be the death of 1:24 - 1:28 scale racing cars. IamZ even helps shutting the door of future fun Mini-Z from Kyosho! Why would they care to improve the race ability and so on if they are the only brand allowed?

I'm not saying that it's anything wrong with Trabant racing but cars that have been developed in a competitive environment seam to outperform them at the international race tracks.

Now lets start a topic were we can develop rules and regulations that really supports both the Kyosho Mini-Z as well as other 1:24 – 1:28 scale racing cars. That would be a favor to both the industry as a whole and to all the drivers, consumers and track owners out there.

And the best of it, we can do it free of charges downloadable to anyone just by using this great site.

RC TV
2003.08.01, 10:21 AM
No one is missing any point. We can go on like this all day. I am not sure though why you and Mini Z pro are under the impression that no other manufacturers are allowed. It clearly states in our proposed rules that any aftermarket parts may be used along with other kits.........As far as saving money, I am all for it and I am sure that $9 is a lot for you. But if IamZ can not pay for itself.......it is not happening. The reason we are doing this is to have competitve racing with rules and to focus on having FUN! No one is getting paid to race or to organize IamZ. We felt based on emails received and reviewing posts on websites like this that it was time. We just want to have fun. No hard feelings. Thanks again for your interest.

cymr1
2003.08.01, 10:39 AM
I actually feel that organized racing of anytype is a plus, and helps to promote/support the hobby. I know that it's very easy to get caught up in the competion side of things, wanting to do this and that to your car, modify the chassis to days end, etc. Ok, and here's where I date myself a bit :) I also look at it as Cool, now I can start getting my 2 sons into the hobby that I have enjoyed for years.

Yes, opening up the events to other brand 1/24 scale cars would be nice, but hey, Mini-Z's have proven in the U.S. and Overseas market that they have been able to stand the test of time against the competition on their own. I bought mine in 1999 (blue R34 in big brown box), as well as my Kawada Tripmate and ABC DTM, and from what I've seen over the years, Mini-Z's have built up a much larger following not Fad than my other two cars that have been sitting on the shelf.

I really hope that RCTV does move forward aggressively with their campain, and look forward to bringing my sons to these events to have FUN, and to enjoy the HOBBY and get a little taste of competition.

As for pricing on Kyosho Products (and many others) at least in the U.S., that whole monopoly is controlled by Great Planes (Tower Hobbies), not by Kyosho, that's why you can get a ready-set in Hong-Kong for about $80.

Zmiester
2003.08.01, 02:21 PM
Ok what exactly is going on here? On one side we have a group of guys that like Mini Z’s from Kyosho that want to start up a new racing body and on the other a group of guys in a MINI Z forum…that is about Mini Z’s from Kyosho that don’t want a racing body. Seems to me like a no brainer. The guys that don’t want it …..dont join. Don’t participate on the forum that is specific to this group and no one will care. For those of us that do think it is a great idea and want to join, we will continue the conversation. Not that everyone is not entitled to an opinion, but it looks like you are the kind of sort of people that no one wants to be around because you are whining and bitching all the time. I want to have some fun and race. This sort of thing should be where you meet old friends and make new ones. The big debate over other makes is ridiculous……then you have to sort out…ok which ones are 4 wheel drive…..the Kawada is…..are some of the other?. IamZ already said in outlaw you can basically run whatever you want as long as you run a hard shell body like the mini z…………so relax take a deep breath and have fun. If not go away. Don’t ruin it for those of us that want this. Why make these guys made so they don’t do it? I think we should have some dinner or something at the end like they do at the snowbirds…..that would be cool! So how do we sign up…..tell us? And I have not seen rc tv in a while whats up with that?

95_civic_gsr
2003.08.01, 04:50 PM
IamZ == International Association of Mini Z
Kinda hard to say IamZKTAYA*
*(Kawada, Tamiya, ABC, Yokomo, Aktiv Road Racer, Squat, Liquid-Z, Pro-Z)

As for Liquid-Z and Pro-Z chassis, you can run those in the Outlaw class.

I don't think this is supporting Monopolistic Companies. This supports competition between:
GPM, TopCad, Squat, Liquid-Z, Pro-Z, Kyosho, Powerline, Eagle, Mini-ZRacer.com, RACER, RC Racing Model, NoMotorLimit, PN-Racing, Z-Speed, ...
for our Mini-Z dollars.
We will not be limited to racing Kyosho hop ups, like in the Kyosho Cup. The races will prove what the best products to buy are.

The thing to remember is racing is about driving. If someone is a horible driver the classes keep them from buying their way into having unfair advantages. I think some of the best races will probably be held in the Stock Racer Catagory. I would also like to see the Officails arguing over the stock springs being streached or if the motor has been hand wound. Will we all have to run clear chassis so that inspection for Fets can be done?

Stock Racer: Raced straight out of the box.
Any KYOSHO tires and wheels may be run including aluminum wheels.
Shouldn't this be open to other wheels and tires? Can you explain your
reasoning on this?

Modified Racer:

I would like to add this:
Super Modified Racer: Must retain original tub chassis. modified motor, turbos, and added fets allowed. Any KYOSHO body.

Outlaw Racer: Any stock or aftermarket Mini z chassis including CG lowering kits. Any [...] particular chassis as long as it is 1/28 scale and uses hard plastic Mini Z bodies.

Would this make everyone happy?:
Super Outlaw Racer: Any 1:26 - 1:28 racer allowed. any weight reduction.
Any bodies including lexan bodies. 2wd, 4wd, 4ws, anything.

What about another F1 class:
Outlaw F1 Modified: Any KYOSHO body.
( or is this included in Outlaw Racer above? )

Of course sometimes I'm sick in my thinking. I would have another class or race where you have to drive your Mini-Z backwards arround the track. Not just race your car arround the track backwards, but actually driving your car in reverse with the back end of your car leading the way.

Pro-Z Racing
2003.08.01, 06:19 PM
How many in this group of Men work for RC TV or in association.

Cyclical yes started with tamyia tam techs Then DIED where in other forms of racing there are only lowered attendance. Mini z is currently heading down the Tam Tech Road without organization. Surly can't base a world championship Race on how much you like one car. That's like Saying you can only use Associated cars at the next IFMAR WORLDS.



Snowbird Nationals in Orlando, FL is a great example of how id like to see Mini-Z Racing develop. For those not Familiar with the event check out www.snowbirdnationals.com Last Februarys race had over 750 entrees sponsored by an enormous list of manufactures. Top drivers from across the world flying in for the event. This years race will most likely be the biggest ever.

Now Snowbirds is RC racing in it's highest form. Lets not Kid our selves mini z is the lowest form of racing. By this I don't mean the size of the car i'm referring to technology for racing. Kyosho Mini-Z is 90% about the kid playing with the car in the kitchen and the avid collector of the super detailed bodies. 10% about racing. The new mini z is even more fact of this. The mid motor mount is great for making scaled bodies terrible for rear traction. Did Kyosho get the hint that there speedcontrol is terrible NO. Kyosho has very little to do with serious RC Racing It's all about making toys.

Family oriented fun go find a local track and have some fun you don't need a world championship to get your sons into racing.

If your going to hold major events the kid with the box stock mini z is not going to travel across the country. Take your hints from other big races (snowbirds, US indoor Champs) only serious racers travel.

If you want to help the hobby and sport of small scale racing Try to develope better racers not a company. I know don't like it don't join. But having a yokomo sonic worlds, ABC worlds, Trip MAte worlds. Watered down to nothing.



I sincerely want a governing body to organize small scale racing but I think it will take another cyclical cycle.

Zmiester
2003.08.02, 01:13 PM
Pro-Z you have some good points. I love the snowbirds it is a great race. If Iamz is anything like that I am in! I could care less how many people work for rc tv what does that have to do with anything? Looks to me like they are doing us a favor . Anyone who takes time to do something like this is ok in my books. There are many manufacturer only championship races like HPI challange, Tamiya TCS, and of course Kysosho races. So come on get real. And the rules clearly state other cars may be used. Look dont post here, you obviously hate these little cars. We happen to like them. There are numerous threads to post on. Make use of them. You did make some great points, but to what end? Are you against guys who like the mini Z wanting to come together and race and have fun? How many times can you keep saying negative things? Is IamZ effecting your lively hood in some way or what? You are welcome to join us but if you dont like it and you dont.........then just go away. Nothing personal. We just want to get together with a bunch of guys race, bs and have fun. I know you dont need IamZ to do it, but ya know what I think it is a great idea, and yes other makes can race in the outlaw class...........wohoooooooooooooo! I hope to see you at the birds.....it is a great race. RC TV any plans to make it like the birds? I went to the site and rc tv sponsered the birds a couple of years ago.......they have several videos you can play on the web. Why no mini video? just my two cents......IAMZ

Pro-Z Racing
2003.08.02, 04:10 PM
Can't wait for snowbirds this year. I finished 2nd last year in GTP stock. Just missed getting my car in Race Rock.

I too like small scale racing and just want the best for it. Just seems a shame to lump 9 other small scale cars into a run what ya brung class and call it outlaw at a world championship level. Honestly sounds more PBS driven family oriented TV that's why i asked how many of the group of men who spent 2 days to come up with IamZ are affiliated with RC TV


"Are you against guys who like the mini Z wanting to come together and race and have fun?"

Of course not and having a competitive race shouldn't change that. As of now that's all mini z racing is, guys who like the mini Z wanting to come together race and have fun. There are no really competitive large events for small scale racing. Only the Kyosho exclusive marketing machine. Here's the opportunity to bring out real competition and advancement of technology. The stigma of these just being children's toys is not going anywhere.


Sorry to rain on your parade but this is the correct forum to post opinions of IamZ

Draconious
2003.08.02, 04:25 PM
The Mini-Power bodies should be concidered useable... as a non-model body... thus leagal when Kyosho bodies are used... ;). These are virtualy identical in weight built type and strength to the Kyosho bodies...

And the box stock class, special events, should start with an unopened box sitting at the start line, say go, and u open the box install your batts and start running laps ;) --- just hope you dont get a dud.

I know I wont pay to join anything though... cuz very often such things start, collect payment, then disapear... and realy have no benifit on the dollar...

95_civic_gsr
2003.08.02, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Draconious
The Mini-Power bodies should be concidered useable... as a non-model body... thus leagal when Kyosho bodies are used... ;). These are virtualy identical in weight built type and strength to the Kyosho bodies...

I agree, but not alowed in Box Stock Class. The idea here is to keep the
bodies at the same wieght, but not all have the same body. I guess the
most even racing would have the same bodies on every car.

Originally posted by Draconious
And the box stock class, special events, should start with an unopened box sitting at the start line, say go, and u open the box install your batts and start running laps ;) --- just hope you dont get a dud.

After the race. Officials could box up the OEM Stock Class with official tape and date and sign it as being put up as it was raced and opened. Then any car that had a broken seal wouldn't be allowed into the races. This would cut down expenditures for all of those BOX stock class races.

Pro-Z Racing
2003.08.02, 06:28 PM
if we follow the same format as real RC car racing this is how it would go.


On-Road Sedan
1/28th scale stock motor 4 cell AAA rubber tire Class
1/28th scale stock motor 4 cell AAA foam tire Class
1/28th scale mod motor 4 cell AAA rubber tire Class
1/28th scale mod motor 4 cell AAA foam tire Class

Off Road (jumps)
1/28th scale stock motor 4 cell AAA rubber tire Class
1/28th scale mod motor 4 cell AAA rubber tire Class

On-Road Sedan
1/24th scale stock motor 4 cell AAA rubber tire Class
1/24th scale stock motor 4 cell AAA foam tire Class
1/24th scale mod motor 4 cell AAA rubber tire Class
1/24th scale mod motor 4 cell AAA foam tire Class

On-Road Open Wheel
1/24th scale stock motor 4 cell AAA rubber tire Class
1/24th scale stock motor 4 cell AAA foam tire Class
1/24th scale mod motor 4 cell AAA rubber tire Class
1/24th scale mod motor 4 cell AAA foam tire Class

As long as your car can fits one of those classes it's in. No complaining about body or titanium axles or better car... Most Tracks condense things into just foam or just rubber tire to not split entrees into to small of a race.
The simple fact is some cars have an advantage over others. That should just push manufactures to make better cars. Not retard things so they never get better. If we had these rules for Kyosho Cup Attendance would be incredible.

Kagan
2003.08.02, 07:21 PM
I made a post just to start up a little discussion of rules and regulations, perhaps even IamZ can participate. Please do! Discuss here! (http://www.mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9318)

And to Zmiester, No I don't hate Mini-Z or anything like that. The Mini-Z is the only scale 1:24 - 1:28 I own.
Please feel free to judge me as an hating antisocial griefer with no friends, but please don't write it in these forums (http://www.pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20010326) ;)

mini-z
2003.08.05, 01:57 AM
RC TV, did you get our email? Please email us at mini-z@. Thanks.

Maximo
2003.08.06, 09:21 PM
Think its about time someone steps up and promotes R/C anything be it on Radio or TV ...

I wouldn't mind having a National title ether ..:D
I think that I would look great holding the trophy girl on TV...:D

I'm with IMAZ!!!

Count me in...