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-   -   Summer shootout trophy race (RC Car World) July 7, (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41552)

EMU 2019.06.19 02:30 AM

I know in the larger scales, and to a certain extent this scale, there is a feeling that pro drivers should run modified and not run in the stock classes. In a sense, once drivers are considered pro level, there is a feeling that by running in stock theyare beating up average racers and taking the wins in the easier class rather than reaching in modified with the big boys... In this scale there are very few pro drivers, mostly because deals are not offered in a similar fashion to the larger scales. There are plenty of fast racers in this scale, and many have pro level driving ability despite not having a ride.

I race at a bunch of different locations, and there has been some feedback at some locations about the fast guys scaring away racers by running in the "box stock" class... I think it boils down to the idea that a chance for a win is taken off the table when they run the class, and racers want to have that opportunity to fight for a win.

While I can understand the idea of a sportsman class, and have mixed feelings that top drivers should be in modified, it is also a completely different skill set to drive modified vs stock. How the car is setup, and more importantly how the car is driven.

I generally prefer stock style driving, with more focus on momentum and keeping speed up through corners to make time. However, stock is also where more setup technique and focus on marginal gains from multiple angles combined can make a huge difference. When everything is held constant under a tight rule structure, is where marginal gains make even more of a difference. When you have unrestricted power, these marginal gains are not really needed as much, since you already have more power than you need, and it's more about how you can convert that power through the wheel into the track than trying to find more power and speed which is the primary focus of stock level racing.

In general when I would race bigger events, more preparation and refinement would go into my stock setups than modified, mostly because modified was much more driver focused as where stock would be more equipment focused because the track could take more speed than what the stock level power could give. In a sense, what Ray said above is very true, that the track is the primary constraint and can be the limit if designed properly...

In general in this scale, new racers want to go fast. Veterans often want to go slow (mostly because slower classes provide better racing). I have always enjoyed pro stock level racing the most. (48t/5500kv AAA or 2S 3500kv power level), mostly because it removes much of the need to search for power gains, as the power is often just above what the track can take, but not necessarily out of hand as modified is for most average racers.

I know that I am going on a few tangents here, which stray from the focus of this event thread, which I apologize for doing. I think in general, near box stock/ kyosho stock is one of the best classes for racing when done right. But, when the balance of power creeps to raise the bar where the scope of the class changes (existing practitioners cannot participate), something needs to be done about it.

arch2b 2019.06.19 06:23 AM

What was the topic of the thread again.... ;) :cool:

I do hope that this is well attended, sadly I cannot.

mugler 2019.06.19 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arch2b (Post 468873)
What was the topic of the thread again.... ;) :cool:

Point taken :p
What would be a good existing thread to move the Box stock conversation to? did a quick search didn't find anything specific, was going to start a new one named "Box Stock Class Discussions" under general discussions but figured to double check if there's one already.
Also would be great to have a section with separate threads for all existing and developing class discussions. box stock, stock, super stock, LM, F1 ( new GL F1 looks good!) Pan body, Mod, Nascar, 86mm, 90mm etc etc.
Sorry had to get off subject one more time:)

arch2b 2019.06.19 05:39 PM

Not my thread...

i can move any posts needed, just give me post counts and a destination. :cool:

mugler 2019.06.20 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arch2b (Post 468879)
Not my thread...

i can move any posts needed, just give me post counts and a destination. :cool:

PM sent :)

tommy_greeneyes 2019.06.22 04:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attach...1&d=1561237022


I will up date the rules for the 3 classes. even the changes in the box stock class

tommy_greeneyes 2019.06.23 05:09 AM

July 7 race
 
3 Attachment(s)
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attach...1&d=1561284110

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attach...1&d=1561284110

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attach...1&d=1561284110


These will be the 3 classes we will be running July 7th.

1 Kyosho stock class
2 70 comp class
3 modified class

Trophies are going to top three finishers in A-mains.

There will be raffles given out per class you sign up to. For the gifts and prizes the sponsors given towards the race. Anyone can be the winner with some nice giveaways here. Food will also include your entry fee.

$20 first class
$10 second class

There will be a live feed of the race.


RC Car World
4340 N Route 130, Willingboro, New Jersey 08046

egonzalez 2019.06.24 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMU (Post 468870)
I know in the larger scales, and to a certain extent this scale, there is a feeling that pro drivers should run modified and not run in the stock classes. In a sense, once drivers are considered pro level, there is a feeling that by running in stock theyare beating up average racers and taking the wins in the easier class rather than reaching in modified with the big boys... In this scale there are very few pro drivers, mostly because deals are not offered in a similar fashion to the larger scales. There are plenty of fast racers in this scale, and many have pro level driving ability despite not having a ride.

I race at a bunch of different locations, and there has been some feedback at some locations about the fast guys scaring away racers by running in the "box stock" class... I think it boils down to the idea that a chance for a win is taken off the table when they run the class, and racers want to have that opportunity to fight for a win.

While I can understand the idea of a sportsman class, and have mixed feelings that top drivers should be in modified, it is also a completely different skill set to drive modified vs stock. How the car is setup, and more importantly how the car is driven.

I generally prefer stock style driving, with more focus on momentum and keeping speed up through corners to make time. However, stock is also where more setup technique and focus on marginal gains from multiple angles combined can make a huge difference. When everything is held constant under a tight rule structure, is where marginal gains make even more of a difference. When you have unrestricted power, these marginal gains are not really needed as much, since you already have more power than you need, and it's more about how you can convert that power through the wheel into the track than trying to find more power and speed which is the primary focus of stock level racing.

In general when I would race bigger events, more preparation and refinement would go into my stock setups than modified, mostly because modified was much more driver focused as where stock would be more equipment focused because the track could take more speed than what the stock level power could give. In a sense, what Ray said above is very true, that the track is the primary constraint and can be the limit if designed properly...

In general in this scale, new racers want to go fast. Veterans often want to go slow (mostly because slower classes provide better racing). I have always enjoyed pro stock level racing the most. (48t/5500kv AAA or 2S 3500kv power level), mostly because it removes much of the need to search for power gains, as the power is often just above what the track can take, but not necessarily out of hand as modified is for most average racers.

I know that I am going on a few tangents here, which stray from the focus of this event thread, which I apologize for doing. I think in general, near box stock/ kyosho stock is one of the best classes for racing when done right. But, when the balance of power creeps to raise the bar where the scope of the class changes (existing practitioners cannot participate), something needs to be done about it.

I agree with EMU. I would just add, keep the just stock class with no pro drivers. Have some way to vet when a new driver can jump from just stock to pro stock. Exp. X number of laps or winning their A main 3 weeks in a row. (Hard to do with the dwindling numbers in 1/28 scale) I still can't believe this scale is still using AAA's and brushed motors. LOL In my years of racing, the stock class or restrictions on a specific class (motor, gearing, batteries, etc) has never been about saving money or making the racing more competitive. These rules/restrictions just give certain drivers a false belief that they have a better chance of winning if the playing field was more level or slower. The truth is, better drivers/tuners will still find a way to the top of their A-mains.


Good Luck to ALL, This seems like a great event.

arch2b 2019.06.24 12:48 PM

I agree to respectfully disagree :p:cool: I donít think we will ever get to a sanctioned rules set in this scale. Please do not exclude top drivers from stock. Iíd rather the come close and loose to a top driver myself, pushes me to be better but as noted, everyone is different and seeks/gets something different out of it. Iíd rather chase the top than lead the bottom. Itís a matter of perspective and perspective is subjective to the viewer.

mugler 2019.06.24 02:06 PM

Box Stock Class Discussion above has been moved to it's own thread HERE :)

egonzalez 2019.06.24 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mugler (Post 469088)
Box Stock Class Discussion above has been moved to it's own thread HERE :)


Thanks ;)

tommy_greeneyes 2019.06.25 12:01 AM

Update on July 7th race
 
The past 6 months. New people have gotten involved in the hobby. People that have gotten a new box stock car out of the box. controller and car. This Kyosho stock classes for them. We have a 2nd stock class where you can run on 3500 KV or a 70 turn PN motor. And AAA.That's the premier stock class we all run locally and National. Even I stop racing box stock class. You have to give the new people the opportunity to do well and learned. By running this race new people will learn from the pros and and make new friends. After July 7th race box stock class will go away. And we have two new classes coming.

We are looking to have Saturday practice if Racers are coming for Sunday.

After July 7th summer shootout race. I have a newer class structure and there are other classes out there. I build my rules towards my track.


Thanks edel I really miss seeing you at the track you should come out this fall when you're free

EMU 2019.06.25 03:10 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Edel, we run AAA brushed mostly in the entry level class. The less restrictive competitive stock uses mostly brushless 3500kv motors, but still AAA. For stock racing, lipo is too fast so AAA is still the standard for stock.

In modified, lipo and brushless is very common now. I don't know if you have kept up to date with some of the chassis offerings on the market, but there are more options now than even a couple years ago. I have been running the GL RACING GLR, and like it. It is a mini pan car essentially.

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attach...1&d=1561450206

arch2b 2019.06.25 06:39 AM

I look forward to seeing what you guys are doing with classes and whatís coming!

egonzalez 2019.06.25 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMU (Post 469103)
Edel, we run AAA brushed mostly in the entry level class. The less restrictive competitive stock uses mostly brushless 3500kv motors, but still AAA. For stock racing, lipo is too fast so AAA is still the standard for stock.

In modified, lipo and brushless is very common now. I don't know if you have kept up to date with some of the chassis offerings on the market, but there are more options now than even a couple years ago. I have been running the GL RACING GLR, and like it. It is a mini pan car essentially.

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attach...1&d=1561450206

Thanks for the update.. Looks like a nice car.


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