2002.06.12, 05:49 PM
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#1
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Mini-Z Novice
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 33
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Eagle Turbo Warning
I believe that I've found the source of the problems that many have experienced with the Eagle Racing Power Boosters on their F1's, and it's definitely a defect in the design of the Turbo!
Let me set the stage: I've got an F1 with an Eagle Turbo controlling a Mini-zracer.com armature in a Squat BB can. I'm running a 9T pinion, and use ball bearings.
I Just got the Eagle and motor can the other day. After installing them, the car ran great, with just a few 1-bit glitches in the steering, but nothing to be concerned with. Last night, my wood floors had just been cleaned, and I my batteries were charged, so I was pushing the car pretty hard. After about 3 minutes, I lost forward speed control...when I pulled the trigger, the front wheels went into a spasm, flying back and forth. Reverse continued to work, and had full steering control (these symptoms seem identical to those noted by crusader4x in another thread).
I popped the body off, and touched the Turbo, which was extremely hot. After letting it cool down, I tried the car again, and it had returned to normal. However, a few minutes later, the same problem occurred. So now I know that the problem is heat related...
I decided to do a little test, holding the car and running it with no load, at high RPM. The Eagle did not heat up. I ran it in reverse...still no heat.
Then I tried accelerating hard, and braking hard. Voila! The Eagle started to heat up! After about 15 start/stop cycles, the spasms started. I let everything cool down, and repeated this test a couple of times to confirm the results.
Conclusion: The Eagle Power Booster can't handle braking loads!
This problem doesn't have anything to do with motors, gearing, or battery status.
When you think about it, it makes sense: Dynamic braking involved throwing a resistive load across the motor to bring it to a rapid halt. That energy has to be dissipated in the form of heat. Faster motors make the job of braking more difficult, by requiring more energy dissipation. The tiny components on the Eagle Turbo just aren't up to the task.
Unfortunately, as others have noted, because of space restrictions in the F1, you can only install the Eagle turbo with the component side down. This doesn't help things, but I'm sure that even under ideal cooling conditions, the Eagle would still overheat eventually.
If you have an Eagle Turbo in your F1 (tintops won't have the problem...no brakes!), you may want to try this test, and post your results.
Here is my installation:
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2002.06.14, 12:17 AM
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#3
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Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,497
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Interesting; I've had no problems with mine on the F1 - I wonder if adding some heat-sinking would help at all?
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2002.06.15, 07:56 PM
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#4
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San Marino GP- 4/25/04
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: south of columbus
Posts: 1,637
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same here. I've had no problems with mine on the F1 as well. i have an xspeed however which of course isn't as fast so perhaps won't generate as much heat under braking.
Last edited by West.F1; 2002.06.16 at 06:16 AM.
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2002.06.16, 03:30 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 624
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I can't see the pics in Dan's post but one thing occured to me while looking at the attachment.
The turbo is mounted with chips facing the chassis... This very nicely heats the chips.
I'd first mount the turbo with the chips up, if you still have problems then remove the shrink wrap and mount a piece of aluminium with heat conductive epoxy on the chips.
A real heatsink would be nice but I think there is no room for one in the FI body.
__________________
W-t
"Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny..."
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2002.06.16, 09:57 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 50
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2002.06.16, 10:16 PM
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#7
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Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,497
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Doesn't work; upload them here with the Attach feature!
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2002.06.16, 10:39 PM
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#8
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Mini-Z Novice
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 33
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Thanks very much for the suggestions. I thought about adding a heatsink. However, that would involve moving the capacitor, and possibly modifying the body to accommodate a heat sink, and improve the airflow.
Before undertaking all of these mods, I decided to try one more test: I popped off the body, and ran the car with the turbo sticking straight up (I have attached a photo).
I was able to induce the heat problem within two minutes of aggressive driving! I don't believe that my problem can be fixed with a heat sink.
I had originally posted to report my findings, to warn others of a potential problem, and to find out if this problem is prevalent. Since only one other person has shared my experience, I'll have to conclude that it's an anomaly. I guess I just got a bum Eagle.
Mr. Mini-Z, can you advise me regarding return or exchange of this turbo? Thanks much.
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2002.06.16, 10:48 PM
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#9
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Mini-Z Novice
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 33
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You can see dantheman's pictures by right-clicking on his links, and using the Copy Link Location command. Then paste into your browser.
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2002.06.16, 11:44 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,702
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well... i got a gpm super turbo which i put on my f-1... it manifests almost the same thing... the steering goes haywire when you try to brake... so i just took it off and tried putting it in the original z... same thing...
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2002.06.16, 11:51 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,702
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some other guys got the same turbo but it works fine with their original mini-z... somebody at the track got the gpm super turbo v2... he said that it is so much better than the original super turbo...
but since he had it on his original z, i don't know if it wont produce glitches in the f-1...
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2002.06.20, 01:40 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 44
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Obviously I'm watching this thread for any additional info with the Eagle Power Booster probs.
Can we just get a simple poll going to see how many have the Eagle Power Booster installed and if they have any problems?
To keep this poll "clean", please just post ONLY if you have the Eagle Power Booster installed on an F1 (other turbos on other mini-z's will only confuse those of us who are trying to diagnose this specific problem).
Let us know what problems you have (if any) and any fixes you attempted. ALSO let us know if you have NO problems at all!
Thanks!
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2002.06.20, 01:44 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 44
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I guess that I should start:
Here's what I have:
Ferrari F1 Mini-Z
Eagle Racing Power Booster
Megatech Hi-Speed and Torq motor
Energizer 750 mah NIMH batteries
Here's my problem:
After about 5 mins of racing I get serious twitching in the front tires, reverse works, NO FORWARD.
The turbo is EXTREMELY HOT to the touch.
Problem disappears after a cool down period of a few minutes.
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2002.06.20, 03:08 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: ny/nj area
Posts: 262
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seems strange that the problem appears and disappears,
i've had issues with reverse only and no forward...
however, after checking it out,
i realized that the FETs were the problem. basically, the FETs
on the stock esc are two channel FETs, one channel for
reverse and one channel for forward. I'm assuming
the same is for the FETs on the turbo. In my case, i ran my car into
a wall...and suddenly, no more forward
probing the contacts, there was a signal for forward going into
the FETs but no signal for forward coming out of the FETS
reverse worked fine...signal in, signal out.
This being the case, if you have your sources
and are a master solderer, you can possible replace
the FETs on your turbo to alleviate the heat buildup
no forward problem....
Not sure about the steering twitch though....that seems
rather strange...maybe it's just interference generated by
the turbo when power goes into the FETS but none comes out...
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2002.06.20, 03:31 PM
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#15
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Mini-Z Novice
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 33
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Just so I'm properly counted:
McLaren F1 Mini-Z
Eagle Racing Power Booster
mini-zracer armature in a Squat BB can
Energizer 700 mah NIMH batteries
9T Pinion
Ball-Bearings
Exact Same Problem:
After about 5 mins of racing I get serious twitching in the front tires, reverse works, NO FORWARD. The turbo is EXTREMELY HOT to the touch.
Problem disappears after a cool down period of a few minutes.
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