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Old 2006.04.04, 04:28 PM   #1
MagicMan
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Just How Important Tires Realy Are

Ok, we've discussed batteries for quite some time, we've come to the conclusion that Intellects are the most punchy, and from a number of experiments from a number of people, Duracell 900's would be on the top of the list for endurance racing.

Now are tires important? YES , obvious answer.

(RCP Track grip MR-01/02)
In my experience of Mini-Zing, I've found (oddly enough) that over time, companies decide to change either the way they 'make' the tire, or the 'compound' of the tire. Because last year, my favorite tire was the GPM 8 for the rear. But as time passed, I noticed you'd have to break these tires in or sand the top coat off before they'd grip. Rather annoying if you ask me.
Then low and behold the Kennon 8 that had come out. These things right out the plastic, grip like you wouldn't believe. They make you forget about suspension tweaks because you're rear will never come out.
Sometimes I see people go through hell trying to figure out why their car isn't handling the way it used to and they tinker with springs, H-plates, damper settings, toe, knuckles, but the last thing (for some unknown reason) that crosses their mind, is TIRES.
I've solved many issues by just swapping tires all around. Now on some OLD rear 8 tires, it would really vary on what you put in the front. But these Kennon 8's are so grippy, you will find yourself wanting even more steering after putting Kennon 8's in the front. And it's NOT because the Kennon 8's dont grip in the front, it's just that the rear can take it on a full throttle, and full stear.
Some people will argue that harder tires in the front will yeild more consistancy, I will reply to this early by saying, BETTER driving will yield to MORE consistant driving. Practice makes perfect.
Simple physics and geometry at its finest actually; if something is sliding from one point to another, rather than taking the shortest line, the one sliding will take more time to get there. Even though the shortest line is closer to intersecting with something along the way, it still will get their faster if no error is made.
My error rate on the track depends on who is out there, and if I'm alone, it's next to 0%. I don't have 30's, 20's 18's 15's or even 10's in the front, I have 8's all around. No slippage, just pure steering input, and the car outputs it to where you want to go. It took some practice, but once you get tuned into your car and become one with it. It actually becomes MORE consistant than you think.
So if you want to shave off those seconds on your lap times, or add some laps in your heat, get some Kennon 8's all around.

(RCP Track grip MA-010)
Call me silly, but the stock tires, are perfect. I've noticed in time the stock rears get slippery, so I slapped on Kennon 8's and it solved the problem. However they are so grippy that the rear will bounce on slow downs. But it you go harder, it will slide. There's no winning unless you get a one way diff in the front to stop the slowdown on the turn in of your car. For me, I just have ball diffs in the front and back, and I just do a lot of throttle control to keep the car planted. Works well. I believe the fronts (stock) are 30's or a weird 35. Because when I try 40's, I get understeer, but when I go buy 30's, they seem to grip more than the stock. I guess you have to break in a new set of 30's because the ones that Kyosho packs the car with seem to be perfect for the front.

(Concrete grip MR-01/02-MA-010)
I believe this is all personal preference because I don't know of any tracks that are of concrete that people pay for to go race at. So I believe that if you are driving on concrete, it's for fun, and when fun is involved, there is no competition, and without competition, people tend to not care who's faster. So whatever works for you, keep doing it.
If you have feed back for this section, feel free. I just keep the tires that work on RCP track and take it to the concrete, because hey, if it works on RCP, it'll work on concrete. Well at least mine do.
In the past I've found extremely hard tires work great on concrete. The stock shiney ones. Reguardless, anyone with some good info on concrete, feel free to reply.
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Old 2006.04.04, 04:49 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMan
Ok, we've discussed batteries for quite some time, we've come to the conclusion that Intellects are the most punchy, and from a number of experiments from a number of people, Duracell 900's would be on the top of the list for endurance racing.

Now are tires important? YES , obvious answer.

(RCP Track grip MR-01/02)
In my experience of Mini-Zing, I've found (oddly enough) that over time, companies decide to change either the way they 'make' the tire, or the 'compound' of the tire. Because last year, my favorite tire was the GPM 8 for the rear. But as time passed, I noticed you'd have to break these tires in or sand the top coat off before they'd grip. Rather annoying if you ask me.
Then low and behold the Kennon 8 that had come out. These things right out the plastic, grip like you wouldn't believe. They make you forget about suspension tweaks because you're rear will never come out.
Sometimes I see people go through hell trying to figure out why their car isn't handling the way it used to and they tinker with springs, H-plates, damper settings, toe, knuckles, but the last thing (for some unknown reason) that crosses their mind, is TIRES.
I've solved many issues by just swapping tires all around. Now on some OLD rear 8 tires, it would really vary on what you put in the front. But these Kennon 8's are so grippy, you will find yourself wanting even more steering after putting Kennon 8's in the front. And it's NOT because the Kennon 8's dont grip in the front, it's just that the rear can take it on a full throttle, and full stear.
Some people will argue that harder tires in the front will yeild more consistancy, I will reply to this early by saying, BETTER driving will yield to MORE consistant driving. Practice makes perfect.
Simple physics and geometry at its finest actually; if something is sliding from one point to another, rather than taking the shortest line, the one sliding will take more time to get there. Even though the shortest line is closer to intersecting with something along the way, it still will get their faster if no error is made.
My error rate on the track depends on who is out there, and if I'm alone, it's next to 0%. I don't have 30's, 20's 18's 15's or even 10's in the front, I have 8's all around. No slippage, just pure steering input, and the car outputs it to where you want to go. It took some practice, but once you get tuned into your car and become one with it. It actually becomes MORE consistant than you think.
So if you want to shave off those seconds on your lap times, or add some laps in your heat, get some Kennon 8's all around.

(RCP Track grip MA-010)
Call me silly, but the stock tires, are perfect. I've noticed in time the stock rears get slippery, so I slapped on Kennon 8's and it solved the problem. However they are so grippy that the rear will bounce on slow downs. But it you go harder, it will slide. There's no winning unless you get a one way diff in the front to stop the slowdown on the turn in of your car. For me, I just have ball diffs in the front and back, and I just do a lot of throttle control to keep the car planted. Works well. I believe the fronts (stock) are 30's or a weird 35. Because when I try 40's, I get understeer, but when I go buy 30's, they seem to grip more than the stock. I guess you have to break in a new set of 30's because the ones that Kyosho packs the car with seem to be perfect for the front.

(Concrete grip MR-01/02-MA-010)
I believe this is all personal preference because I don't know of any tracks that are of concrete that people pay for to go race at. So I believe that if you are driving on concrete, it's for fun, and when fun is involved, there is no competition, and without competition, people tend to not care who's faster. So whatever works for you, keep doing it.
If you have feed back for this section, feel free. I just keep the tires that work on RCP track and take it to the concrete, because hey, if it works on RCP, it'll work on concrete. Well at least mine do.
In the past I've found extremely hard tires work great on concrete. The stock shiney ones. Reguardless, anyone with some good info on concrete, feel free to reply.

I've run on a few smooth concrete tracks- the stock tires are way too hard...the cars spin all over the place. The rule of thumb is to run the softest compound you can get- even some tire compound helps a bit. Also running slicks in the front can help- I've had good luck with Kyosho 30 slicks....gives the car a bit of understeer which keeps the rear from spinning around.

For RCP I have no problems with the Kyosho 10 and 20 MT tires (MR02)...both in competition and just playing around. Again, the rule of thumb is softer compound. Slicks in the front tend to give the car too much understeer on RCP, so I always go with tread.

I agree though, many handling issues can be solved just by putting on a new/softer set of tires.
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Old 2006.04.04, 06:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolter9
I've run on a few smooth concrete tracks- the stock tires are way too hard...the cars spin all over the place. The rule of thumb is to run the softest compound you can get- even some tire compound helps a bit. Also running slicks in the front can help- I've had good luck with Kyosho 30 slicks....gives the car a bit of understeer which keeps the rear from spinning around.

For RCP I have no problems with the Kyosho 10 and 20 MT tires (MR02)...both in competition and just playing around. Again, the rule of thumb is softer compound. Slicks in the front tend to give the car too much understeer on RCP, so I always go with tread.

I agree though, many handling issues can be solved just by putting on a new/softer set of tires.
Great insight , Try to go out there and get some Kennon 8's. I'll try to find them online. Or have EMU post a link. Anything harder will just slow you down. You may have to adjust your driving, but after that's done, trust me you'll thank me
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Old 2006.04.04, 06:59 PM   #4
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Kennon 8's Rear:
http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/s...roducts_id=240

Kennon 8's Front:
http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/s...roducts_id=360

Darn worth the money. After all, you get what you pay for.
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Old 2006.04.04, 08:04 PM   #5
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Good post.

I've tried a couple of the different GPM 8s, Atomic 10s Grooved and Atomic 10 AWs for the rears on my MR-02 when running on RCP. I really liked the Atomic 10 AWs before they got worn out. Since then I've been using the GPM 8s which have been pretty good. I should be getting more sets of the Atomic 10 AWs to reverify which ones are better between them and the GPM 8s.

One thing I don't like about the GPM 8s are they don't fill up the whole width of the wheel rim. It's like they are 1-2mm too skinny.

-hobbycar
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Old 2006.04.05, 04:48 AM   #6
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One thing to note about the Kenon tires, is that it is the latest batch that is very impressive. If you have used an older set, they are essentially the same as the GPM. The most recent ones that Kenon shipped to the track shop that we race at are the ones we are excited about (slightly different packaging than the older ones).

edit: Lol magic, posting almost at the same time
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Old 2006.04.05, 04:53 AM   #7
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GPM has a new tire that has the same tread pattern as the old 8s. These tires are wider and fill up the whole rear wheel. The compound is softer and stickier. It has some sort of compound applied to it as it feels wet out of the bag. The header card on the old narrower ones are tagged MR2891AR08G. The new ones are MR2891AR20GN. I spoke with GPM in person and they said these are new compounds. Yes these hook up better than the old 8s out of the bag.

Is it possible that the MR2891AR20GN are the same as the PNs? Who knows.

GPM has matching fronts with these new compounds.
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Old 2006.04.05, 04:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipstream
GPM has a new tire that has the same tread pattern as the old 8s. These tires are wider and fill up the whole rear wheel. The compound is softer and stickier. It has some sort of compound applied to it as it feels wet out of the bag. The header card on the old narrower ones are tagged MR2891AR08G. The new ones are MR2891AR20GN. I spoke with GPM in person and they said these are new compounds. Yes these hook up better than the old 8s out of the bag.

Is it possible that the MR2891AR20GN are the same as the PNs? Who knows.

GPM has matching fronts with these new compounds.
Sounds like they could possibly be the same tire

Notice how this tire ends in MZ-R08G-Q (it has a new tread compared to the older ones)
http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/s...oducts_id=1433

The tread that they have in stock in the Kenon store for the other 8's also is different tread from what we got at the track. The ones at the track were tread B, while the ones in the Kenon store are tread C.

Last edited by EMU; 2006.04.05 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 2006.04.05, 05:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMU
Sounds like they could possibly be the same tire

Notice how this tire ends in MZ-R08G-Q (it has a new tread compared to the older ones)
http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/s...oducts_id=1433

The tread that they have in stock in the Kenon store for the other 8's also is different tread from what we got at the track. The ones at the track were tread B, while the ones in the Kenon store are tread C.

I was told the new GPM compound is available in different tread patterns. The "C" pattern is the one with a V in the middle. The "B" pattern has a rib in the center with diagonal, slightly curved grooves going from the center to the outside. Correct?
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Old 2006.04.05, 12:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipstream
I was told the new GPM compound is available in different tread patterns. The "C" pattern is the one with a V in the middle. The "B" pattern has a rib in the center with diagonal, slightly curved grooves going from the center to the outside. Correct?
I have seen these groved tires that you are talking about in the sticky compound that I've been mentioning. Basicaly what me and EMU have noticed, is that if the tire is shiney and wet looking, it is the newly released compound/treated rear tire. If it isn't, it's the old 8's that need sanding/breaking in. I'm fairly certain that anything you pickup online that's packaged Kenon, will ship with the shiney wet tire (new kind).

I don't know the name for those tread patterns... I'll see what I can dig up if EMU doesn't get back to you
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Old 2006.04.05, 12:48 PM   #11
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Kenon stocked only the tread C before. And lately the shop I race at had the tread B stocked, so they had to go through the stock to the latest tires they received...
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Old 2006.04.05, 12:58 PM   #12
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I also like the GMP 8's on all 4's. I just ordered some of the new ones and I'll see how they compare. Thanks for the Heads up.
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Old 2006.04.05, 01:42 PM   #13
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How long do your Kenon 8 rears last for you? I've noticed that at least for me they lose grip after the newness wears off. I'll throw some on tonight and see again. This is also right after the newness wore off.

I've used duct tape to clean them up but they don't seem to repell the dust like they do when they are new.

Also, how do you maintain your tires, say after a day of racing and or before the next big day of racing?

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Old 2006.04.05, 01:48 PM   #14
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The newer tires are still grippy after the tread starts to wear down. We race at a large track, with alot of sweeping turns... so tire wear is multiplied from what it would be on a smaller track. Normally a set of rears is good for about 2-3 race nights before it should be switched to a new set, although I have gone 4 race nights with the newer Kenon tires, and have no plans to swap them out yet.

As for tire maintenance, I have seen alot of people clean them between each heat with simple green... I dont really do anything with the tires. Maybe use sandpaper to clean them a little before a race, but I just run them as they are... I dont want to be suspected of using traction compound if I am seen cleaning them with something like simple green or another cleaner
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Old 2006.04.05, 01:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMU
The newer tires are still grippy after the tread starts to wear down. We race at a large track, with alot of sweeping turns... so tire wear is multiplied from what it would be on a smaller track. Normally a set of rears is good for about 2-3 race nights before it should be switched to a new set, although I have gone 4 race nights with the newer Kenon tires, and have no plans to swap them out yet.

As for tire maintenance, I have seen alot of people clean them between each heat with simple green... I dont really do anything with the tires. Maybe use sandpaper to clean them a little before a race, but I just run them as they are... I dont want to be suspected of using traction compound if I am seen cleaning them with something like simple green or another cleaner
I've found that the Stafford track her in the UK is dusty but not to the point that traction is an issue. The past two races thier I've ran Kyosho 20 deg rear tires. I'll have to post up some pics but they are the same wide tire that comes with the MA-010 chassis set.

For maintenance here at home I don't do much. I keep my track really clean, grip is high and I've noticed that after a few laps the tires look cleaned. There is noticable wear and surprisingly the tires are very durable.

For maintenance at the track I've actually only twice used the tape and that was during the OLPS. The track was dusty and the clean clean tires gave me the hole shot. The last time I didn't have the tape and just went at it. I know how passionate you guys feel about the kennons and I feel the same about these K tires.

I think that traction compounds shouldn't be outlawed. MagicMan said it best..."BETTER driving will yield to MORE consistant driving. Practice makes perfect."

-Byebye
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