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Old 2006.05.18, 11:11 AM   #1
builthatch
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Steering gremlins are back!!!!!!!

I havenít been using my mr02 at all really because of the 1/18th scale sh*t i've been playing with, but now that the track is coming (ordered some RCP), I fired it up to get things moving again. I noticed I still have a problem that I have never really been able to solve and I hope maybe someone can help. Maybe itís normal and Iím bugging, but I donít think soÖ.

My car has always wanted to veer one way after a certain direction turn. The direction will change only when I play with trim or the board soÖ here is an illustration to describe it.

The car will continue to veer to the left after a left turn, but will go straight after a right turn. If I adjust the board or trim to the right a spot or two, the car will continue to go right after a right turn and track straight after a left turn. The steering components are perfectly clean, there is no binding, the pot is cemented to the plate and itís actually not even 4 months old. Actually none of the steering stuff is older than 4 months, it was replaced by Kyosho a while back. Keep in mind I donít race this thing, and donít hit anything, so itís not like itís seen track time (yet).

A few months ago, I was able to find a middle ground where the car after a right would veer slightly but under any power would straighten outÖsame with leftsÖso it was Ďnormalí at that point and very easy to drive...But whatever is causing the orig. problem is back, because no matter what I do I canít get it to that point now.

Now, before anyone says instantly that it's the POT, i really want you to read this and recall what i did say about the POT being clean and new. The pot seems to recenter fine, but, there seems to be a bunch of slop in the servo saver, what I mean is, if I take the arm, and put it on the servo saver nub w/o the cover so I can see it, the saver moves quite a bit from center to the opposite direction of the veering. So itís got play for sure and the play corresponds with the issue, because when I hold the car, and turn the wheels the way it veers, the wheels wonít return all the way, but if I tap them ever-so-lightly, they will return to the POT center, like not even an electrical assisted return, just a physical tap back return. THis is why i think it's not POT related, because the POT actually centers back, but the play in the servo saver, whichever way i have it set for, seems to be the problem. is this normal? Any way to correct it? I have delrin gears NIB from Kyosho that I got a while back and never installed. I talked to RUF in Texas and he said to replace everything as itís part of a service interval, but the problem is I donít race the car. Ever. I mean itís never seen a race track and I barely use it, maybe before it was fetted I used it a few times a week alone in the garage, but, that was maybe 3-4 months of light use, esp. since I canít even drive it now with the FETS and that motor. That is the whole reason I got a track, so I can use it finally.

I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks.
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Old 2006.05.18, 11:32 AM   #2
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asuming that actualy is more slack than there should be in the servo saver.. its the servo saver...

if while moving the tires back and forth manualy... it sticks a lot... then you need new servo gears... or to sand them so their teeth dont fight each other.
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Old 2006.05.18, 11:34 AM   #3
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I'll plow though some ideas... you may have already checked them... but what the heck !

MECHANICAL:

Binding on the tie rod ? Does it slide freely through the clip ?

Binding on the gears ? Do they roll across each other smoothly ? I usually sand the face surfaces of mine, be sure to check the gear meshes too.

Binding at the knuckle ? Make sure the knuckles move freely on the kingpins.

Binded servo gearbox ? Make sure that the assembly is placed properly into the chassis, and the wires are routed corectly through, also... make sure the servo motor wires are routed correctly, the lower wire has to go to one specific side. Tweak on the assembly is a major source of bind.

Wheel nuts adjusted properly ? Even torque ?

Pot seated properly... make sure it is fully engaged into the main gear.

Servo saver link arm travelling freely ? I usually sand mine down to make sure they don't catch on the assembly bulkheads.

Diff tuned properly ? Make sure it has smooth operation.

Hplate on straight ? Make sure it's not tweaked side to side.

Rear suspension binding ?

Motor wires hitting the body ? The wires could be hitting a certain area and taking their good ole time getting past the obstruction when the suspension unloads out of the turn.

ELECTRONICS:

Wires to the pot and the servo motor fully connected to the board ? Frayed wires and cold connections can be a real problem.

Controller working properly ? Yes... it does happen, they do break. Maybe the steering is working properly in the controller itself. Test the car with another one.

Check car with other crystal too, just in case.

I'm pretty sure you have everything wired correctly... but always double check.

WEIRD:

Strange spirits are causing your car to just plain annoy you.

There is a guy over in China with a really powerful controller who by pure chance is racing the same time you do. (also by pure chance... on your frequency... I never did trust a guy with a 3pk... they're hiding something ! )

Your car just really thinks it should keep going that direction just because !

Or, your car just really likes raising your blood pressure, because it's evil.


I know... I've had similar issues with these cars... the steering is so sensitive to binding, and it can be a real pain to get it right, sometimes you just find it by dumb luck.

Good Luck !
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Old 2006.05.18, 11:55 AM   #4
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hahaha, thanks for that run down!

i've definately limited it to the servo assembly somewhere. there is no binding, the pot "seems" to recenter perfectly, it just seems that something is leaving a spot of play to one side from center at the saver (i think, since the gears don't move for a few MM thru that play)

if i try to adjust to compensate for the play, i've now moved the center over and it'll just show up on the other side because the center is now moved over........the play will keep it straight on the one side and the orignally good side will now veer due to the center being inched over a bit.

if i hold the car upside down, i can steer the car one way, itll be fine and come back to center, steer the car the other, and it'll not fully recover, but a slight SLIGHT tap of the wheel will push the wheels thru that 'play spot'...that is why if i give the car power, itll center, or let the wheel "snap" back on the TX, itll center back; the jarring of both of those movements tracks the wheels straight, defeating the play.

also, and i dont think i mentioned this, the direction the play is going, it's present all the time if i manually play with the wheels. so if i power down, the car is centered, but i can push the wheels to the spot where it doesn't recenter (only on the one side)

i wish i had another one to look at, sucks being the only one around with these little cars.

this is why i like 1/18...i can just buy another hs81mg and call it a day ; )
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Old 2006.05.18, 01:32 PM   #5
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Funny you should mention that... I have all kinds of re-centering / veer issues with that servo in my Xray.

Are all of the shafts for the gears and the servo saver fully engaged into the bulkheads of the servo assembly ? I saw what you're describing once before and it was because the shaft for the saver was only into the aft bulkhead and not into the forward one. It would shift side to side when centered.

Basically, the stop for the shaft on the aft bulkhead was blown out, and the shaft would just work its way through.

Wish I could have it in my hands... I usually diagnose stuff like this really quick. Just used to doing quick diagnosis trying to get all my crew up and running over the years.
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Old 2006.05.18, 02:32 PM   #6
builthatch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imxlr8ed
Funny you should mention that... I have all kinds of re-centering / veer issues with that servo in my Xray.

Are all of the shafts for the gears and the servo saver fully engaged into the bulkheads of the servo assembly ? I saw what you're describing once before and it was because the shaft for the saver was only into the aft bulkhead and not into the forward one. It would shift side to side when centered.

Basically, the stop for the shaft on the aft bulkhead was blown out, and the shaft would just work its way through.

Wish I could have it in my hands... I usually diagnose stuff like this really quick. Just used to doing quick diagnosis trying to get all my crew up and running over the years.
haha...yeah, i've heard stories about that servo but mine (m18 and m18t) have been a-ok, with ALOT more use than my mini-z has seen ; )

hey, if you want/ have time, i can send the car out to you and pay $ to have you look at it/ resolve the issue. Do you have servo walls/ saver/ POT, etc? I have delrin gears from Kyosho NIP, that's about it as far as extra parts for the servo and this is my only mini-z so no salvaging on my end! I can get an alloy saver from Eagle sent to you, but...i can't find anyone who has the Kyosho one in stock, not even Kyosho ; )

Anyway, let me know. I can send the car out and i'm only a state away!
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Old 2006.05.18, 03:15 PM   #7
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I'll PM you my address... I have extra parts and such, just need the car sans controller, body, batts.
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Old 2006.05.18, 03:18 PM   #8
builthatch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imxlr8ed
I'll PM you my address... I have extra parts and such, just need the car sans controller, body, batts.
OK, sounds good. I have been using Magic up in NY for any repair/upgrade services i can't handle, but i have not been able to catch up with him as he's been busy, so i will send it out to you. I see you have a pretty good repuation on the board and are always helpful, so i think i am making a good move.

actually, i thought about it, if you want, i could even meet up with you this weekend or whatever...haha, i mean, i passed your area twice in the last two days because i drove out to OH for a work function, so at this point an hour or so on 76 ain't nothing vs. 6 hours. Either way, let me know.
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Old 2006.05.18, 04:55 PM   #9
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That'd be cool, already emailed you the link to our directions... we'll have the new HFAY layout setup, so if you want, you could put down some times for the TT Event. We're about 45min. to an hour outside of Philly. Rt. 422 is visible from our facility, easy to find.
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Old 2006.05.19, 01:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
The car will continue to veer to the left after a left turn, but will go straight after a right turn. If I adjust the board or trim to the right a spot or two, the car will continue to go right after a right turn and track straight after a left turn.... if i hold the car upside down, i can steer the car one way, itll be fine and come back to center, steer the car the other, and it'll not fully recover, but a slight SLIGHT tap of the wheel will push the wheels thru that 'play spot'...that is why if i give the car power, itll center, or let the wheel "snap" back on the TX, itll center back; the jarring of both of those movements tracks the wheels straight, defeating the play....
man i thought it was just me... i have the exact same problem in a couple of my cars!!!!...so i'm not going insane... mwuahahahaha... (one car was even brand new, which is kinda such a pisser like ?????? ???? not again???? )... it would come out straight after one turn (either left or right) but not track straight coming out of the opposite turn... if you adjusted the steering it would throw the problem over to the opposite side... weird...

imxlr8ed probably laid it down smack... as for me... well sometimes its there and sometimes it's not... i figured there might be some bind somewhere...

i sanded the kingpins down to a nice shine... somehow that helped a little...

then i figured to take out the spacer ring (this is approx 1mm and i fugure the main purpose is to put some load onto the spring and the knuckle while keeping the knuckle flush with the bottom part- where the bottom of the knuckle meets the of the chassis)...

taking out the spacer ring will cause your knuckle to float about 1mm... from the bottom - where the bottom part of the chassis meets the knuckle... hope to post a pic sometime... for more 'float' you can disregard the drop limitter all toghether...

oh well to some extent this helped... don't know if its the pot or the motor... i guess you can say we're in the same boat...

i also guess that you have to adjust the steering that will give you the most acceptable, driveable compromise...

anybody else have this problem???

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Old 2006.05.19, 01:53 AM   #11
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Funny you should mention that... I have all kinds of re-centering / veer issues with that servo in my Xray.
lol...funny.... but i have that kinda problem too... just haven't gotten around to getting it fixed it yet... any suggestions here as well???
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Old 2006.05.19, 08:43 AM   #12
builthatch
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lol...funny.... but i have that kinda problem too... just haven't gotten around to getting it fixed it yet... any suggestions here as well???
the most popular solution is to change the servo to this or this

the first one is a MG version.
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Old 2006.05.19, 08:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herman
man i thought it was just me... i have the exact same problem in a couple of my cars!!!!...so i'm not going insane... mwuahahahaha... (one car was even brand new, which is kinda such a pisser like ?????? ???? not again???? )... it would come out straight after one turn (either left or right) but not track straight coming out of the opposite turn... if you adjusted the steering it would throw the problem over to the opposite side... weird...

imxlr8ed probably laid it down smack... as for me... well sometimes its there and sometimes it's not... i figured there might be some bind somewhere...

i sanded the kingpins down to a nice shine... somehow that helped a little...

then i figured to take out the spacer ring (this is approx 1mm and i fugure the main purpose is to put some load onto the spring and the knuckle while keeping the knuckle flush with the bottom part- where the bottom of the knuckle meets the of the chassis)...

taking out the spacer ring will cause your knuckle to float about 1mm... from the bottom - where the bottom part of the chassis meets the knuckle... hope to post a pic sometime... for more 'float' you can disregard the drop limitter all toghether...

oh well to some extent this helped... don't know if its the pot or the motor... i guess you can say we're in the same boat...

i also guess that you have to adjust the steering that will give you the most acceptable, driveable compromise...

anybody else have this problem???
herman, i am glad to hear it man. that's the main thing here- i don't have any other cars to compare my mini-z to, so it's like when do i let something go and attribute it to the cars 'just being like that' or on the flip side, i don't know if it's something that is wrong and should be corrected....

well, your problems are unfortunate, but i am glad to hear you have them if you know what i mean because it proves that i am not crazy ; )

i did what you said- ive adjusted it to the most manageable position on the board, and if worse comes to worse, i can trim it out so its pretty equal, but i hate having trim adjustments on my radio with ANY car, so i always try to adjust arm lengths if its a bigger scale so its zeroed out and straight, or, with the z, i try to adjust the board so its straight while the tx is zeroed out. just another aspect of my anal paranoia that drives me crazy with these mini-z's and makes me lose sleep at nite ; )
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Old 2006.05.19, 12:10 PM   #14
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Damn.... for got about the spacer... I knew I was forgetting something !

I'm getting a Futaba before next season, of course, that's if my Xray survives a Summer of infrequent bashing at the local skate park... drifting is 10x cooler on a quarterpipe !

Getting decent at rail grinds too !
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